Some comments on information theory

Approaching Infinity

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Iain McGilchrist (author of The Master and His Emissary, on the left and right hemispheres) has a new book on consciousness and reality coming out very soon called The Matter of Things. He recently gives a talk where he very briefly lays out his conclusions, stressing that reality is fundamentally "relational".


He makes many points, so I'll just share one. He refers to matter at one point as a "phase" of consciousness. I haven't heard or thought of it in precisely that term, but I like it. Consciousness is more like air, matter is more like ice. I believe Laura and the Cs have at times referred to matter as "matterized consciousness" or "sleeping consciousness."
 

Cleopatre VII

Jedi Master
He makes many points, so I'll just share one. He refers to matter at one point as a "phase" of consciousness. I haven't heard or thought of it in precisely that term, but I like it. Consciousness is more like air, matter is more like ice. I believe Laura and the Cs have at times referred to matter as "matterized consciousness" or "sleeping consciousness."
It might even be something like a protophysical explanation of the phenomenon of materialization. The more intensively you think about some form of matter, the closer it is to you and to what surrounds you. I know something like this could happen. It's kind of "condensing" consciousness.

Although there is one important point that I would like to mention, not just as a warning. It seems to me that the condition for reality to "tune in" to our consciousness is, above all, the purity of our intentions.

Perhaps it is not even that God, whatever that being is, judges the purity of intention. I guess it's a bit like a lie detector. When someone misses the truth and is aware of it, his natural reflexes allow him to detect this fact. It may be similar here.

Most people feel when they do wrong, although "wrong" is of course relative and depends on many different factors. It is about our personal sense of morality. Acting against our conscience can be distressing. Therefore, it is difficult for us to attain a level of consciousness at which we will feel the lightness of existence, unconditional love, light. Without it, in turn, it is difficult for any condensation of consciousness.
 

Bluegazer

The Living Force
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He recently gives a talk where he very briefly lays out his conclusions, stressing that reality is fundamentally "relational".

Ah! Relational as well as interactive:

'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02
 

dredger

The Living Force
I hesitated to post here because this thread is completely out of my kwowledge, at least the math part which remains obscur to me, i'm simply bad at math, not wired to understand them :( .
But I read a part of the discussion, and when i read that Ark was responding on it, I wondered how i could help, but rapidly understood I could not.

But ... while browsing on youtube, it proposed me one video of an old channel i followed during some months. It was 5 to 6y before and I even posted a thread about his work here in the forum.
So, maybe a response to my question "how could i help ?" ... dunno ...
This guy, who (nick)named "Astral Traveler" visibly continued his researches, and is now speaking about concepts and words that are discussed in this thread. His last video is 1y before, and 2y before he posted only 4 videos, then more 3y before.

Is he on something or not ? Did he found something interresting or what he's saying is BS ?

The only little voice that push me to post (on a thread where i'm 100% incompetent), is that maybe this guy coming from nowhere, with videos with less than 1k views, could have made good asumptions, or good remarks, and that they could act like a "muse" to Cleopatre, or Ark, or any other ? At least, he seems very passionate on learning the subject, and he spent a lot energy on this, and my wondering was to know if, from an expert point of view, this Astral Traveler is saying interresting things or "word salads" ? (of course, I hope the 1st one)

Here's the link the the channel :

@Cleopatre VII , if you have a look at him then I hope that you'll at least find some interresting things/(fresh) ideas/concepts or .. i don't know what, and if he's out of touch, sorry then, too bad, try again :)
 

dennis

Jedi Master
This article and the two others by the author might be helpful in explaining the academic math concepts in a layman's perceptual experience.

 

Cleopatre VII

Jedi Master
Excuse me for my long absence. I had a lot of all sorts of things, including some health problems, but I came back. I have question for you. Would you like to continue this thread after Christmas? If so, do you have any specific idea which direction we will be moving in now?
 

Natus Videre

Jedi Master
Excuse me for my long absence. I had a lot of all sorts of things, including some health problems, but I came back. I have question for you. Would you like to continue this thread after Christmas? If so, do you have any specific idea which direction we will be moving in now?
Great to see you back. I hope you are doing well.
I think this thread has enough love to pierce through 2022 and beyond. :-)

Lately, I have been looking closely at sequences of numbers, especially those arising from a triangular/pyramidal arrangement (such as in Pascal's Triangle). It's fascinating!
1640637200385.png1640637299036.png
I noticed the following (universal?) patterns:
  • There are building blocks from which everything emanates.
  • The destination can be obtained from the starting point by following precise steps.
  • The pattern of a large structure is contained within a small structure and vice versa.
  • Infinity arises from the continuation or the recurrence of patterns.
  • Sequences (e.g. prime numbers) are to meta-sequences (e.g. gaps between prime numbers) as a system (mathematics?) is to a meta-system (philosophy?).
  • Shapes have a signature which defines their potential.
  • Numbers and sequences of numbers can carry messages or meanings.
  • A pyramid can also be viewed as a spiral.
But then, where does information fit into the puzzle?
Q: (A) 1 2 3 are the first three prime numbers...

A: Yes, thank you Arkadiusz!!!! Laura is dancing around in wonderland, meanwhile all of creation, of existence, is contained in 1, 2, 3!!! Look for this when you are trying to find the keys to the hidden secrets of all existence... They dwell within. 11, 22, 33, 1/2, 1/3, 1, 2, 3, 121, 11, 111, 222, 333, and so on! Get it?!?!

Q: When you say that the secrets of all existence dwell within 1 2 3 or variations thereof, what kind of secrets are we talking about here?

A: All.
Q: (A) Trying to understand the universe in terms of a triality, matter - geometry - information. Is it the right idea?

A: If one thinks of matter as "living" rather than "dead."
Q: Wait, I asked what is the second loop. The second loop is included but not inclusive?

A: Remember, you do have cycles but that does not necessarily mean cyclical. 3 Dimensional depiction of loop, seek hexagon for more. Geometric theory provides answers for key. Look to stellar windows. Octagon, hexagon, pentagon.

Q: Are those the different levels of density?

A: No, but it relates. Geometry gets you there, algebra sets you "free."
Q: (L) Next question on the list: How do consciousness, information, and matter relate to each other?

A: Different concentrations of truth.

Q: (L) So I'm assuming you mean that matter would be one concentration, and consciousness would be another, and information like maybe pure information would be the purest form?

A: Not necessarily, information arranged by a truth becomes consciousness. That is why truth and objectivity are so important. Without it, consciousness and individuality fractures and disintegrates.

If numbers have an intrinsic meaning due to their geometric arrangement, then a consciousness (matter) with the right intention can send information to itself or another consciousness in order to provoke a response (positive, neutral, or negative), because consciousness is receptive to a universal, geometric, objective language.

In practical terms, if you were to pick a sequence of numbers that had a geometric arrangement that could "bind" to whatever you wanted to alter (target), with the right intention, you could witness change in your target.

As a suggestion, I think we could study the impact of geometric shapes on the transfer of information. Pure water could be a good place to start, as it has unique "storage" capabilities. We could try to infuse it with sequences of numbers and retrieve its response. That could give us a better idea of the mapping between numbers and meanings.
 

John G

The Living Force
Great to see you back. I hope you are doing well.
I think this thread has enough love to pierce through 2022 and beyond. :-)

Lately, I have been looking closely at sequences of numbers, especially those arising from a triangular/pyramidal arrangement (such as in Pascal's Triangle). It's fascinating!
View attachment 53052View attachment 53053
I noticed the following (universal?) patterns:
  • There are building blocks from which everything emanates.
  • The destination can be obtained from the starting point by following precise steps.
  • The pattern of a large structure is contained within a small structure and vice versa.
  • Infinity arises from the continuation or the recurrence of patterns.
  • Sequences (e.g. prime numbers) are to meta-sequences (e.g. gaps between prime numbers) as a system (mathematics?) is to a meta-system (philosophy?).
  • Shapes have a signature which defines their potential.
  • Numbers and sequences of numbers can carry messages or meanings.
  • A pyramid can also be viewed as a spiral.
But then, where does information fit into the puzzle?

...A: Remember, you do have cycles but that does not necessarily mean cyclical. 3 Dimensional depiction of loop, seek hexagon for more. Geometric theory provides answers for key. Look to stellar windows. Octagon, hexagon, pentagon.

Q: Are those the different levels of density?

A: No, but it relates. Geometry gets you there, algebra sets you "free."...

One way to see information in the Pascal triangle is to notice all the rows add up to a power of two aka it's binary information. For example the bottom row numbers of 1-8-28-56-70-56-28-1 add up to 2^8=256. Each row is the graded dimensions of a Clifford algebra. For example, the 6 next the 15 are the Cl(6) vector and bivectors which relates to Ark's SO(6) conformal group gravity having 15 dimensions. The pentagon-hexagon-octagon relate to the vectors 5, 6 and 8. These were clues leading to Cs liking Ark's use of the conformal group for gravity. Going from pentagon to hexagon (5 to 6) introduces complex numbers which makes things even messier, What does going from 6 to 8 (hexagon to octagon) give you? I think it relates to differential forms that Ark mentioned earlier as useful for things like Maxwell's equations (electromagnetism). The Pascal triangle has lots of fun things. The rows where the vector is a prime number (like 5 or 7) have the row values as 1 or a multiple of the prime (5,10 or 7,21,35). There are diagonals of the Pascal triangle that add the Fibonacci numbers. Ark related that algebra sets you "free" to Free algebras of which Clifford algebras are special cases.
 

Cleopatre VII

Jedi Master
Infinity arises from the continuation or the recurrence of patterns.
This makes me think of fractals. However, I did not explore the relationship between fractals and information theory. On the other hand, fractals help us study and understand significant scientific concepts, such as, for example, the way bacteria grow, patterns in freezing water and brain waves. All of this is related to the information in some way. For example, with genetic information encoding the development of organisms, some fractal structures can be seen in cells. Hypothetically, cell culture can go on indefinitely. Assuming perfect conditions. This is an interesting point to consider.

Sequences (e.g. prime numbers) are to meta-sequences (e.g. gaps between prime numbers) as a system (mathematics?) is to a meta-system (philosophy?).
The question is why this division into sequence and metasequence. Do you know the Chebyshev theorem? Its content is as follows:

“For any integer n greater than 1, there is at least one prime number between n and 2n.”

And here, indeed, these prime numbers would be certain points on uncountable sections, but does this mean that uncountable sections would be a metasequence? How exactly do you understand that?

When it comes to math and philosophy, I think I understand what you mean. Philosophy seems to be a wider field, and mathematics seems to be a kind of mechanization or axiomatization, which, however, deprives us of certain information. But if we know the intervals in which there are no prime numbers, we are not deprived of information about which of the numbers are prime numbers.

If numbers have an intrinsic meaning due to their geometric arrangement, then a consciousness (matter) with the right intention can send information to itself or another consciousness in order to provoke a response (positive, neutral, or negative), because consciousness is receptive to a universal, geometric, objective language.
However, are the numbers information in themselves or are they merely an abstract record of information?

Pure water could be a good place to start, as it has unique "storage" capabilities. We could try to infuse it with sequences of numbers and retrieve its response. That could give us a better idea of the mapping between numbers and meanings.
This, in turn, brings to mind experiments on the so-called "memory of water". You certainly know this subject. They may be interesting in the context of information theory and consciousness, but I think mostly in the context of panpsychism, where consciousness is somewhat gradual.

The matter is probably not obvious with these numbers. Do you have any idea of introducing your concept in a more precise way? I'm not sure if I understand you well.
 

Cleopatre VII

Jedi Master
One way to see information in the Pascal triangle is to notice all the rows add up to a power of two aka it's binary information. For example the bottom row numbers of 1-8-28-56-70-56-28-1 add up to 2^8=256. Each row is the graded dimensions of a Clifford algebra. For example, the 6 next the 15 are the Cl(6) vector and bivectors which relates to Ark's SO(6) conformal group gravity having 15 dimensions. The pentagon-hexagon-octagon relate to the vectors 5, 6 and 8. These were clues leading to Cs liking Ark's use of the conformal group for gravity. Going from pentagon to hexagon (5 to 6) introduces complex numbers which makes things even messier, What does going from 6 to 8 (hexagon to octagon) give you? I think it relates to differential forms that Ark mentioned earlier as useful for things like Maxwell's equations (electromagnetism). The Pascal triangle has lots of fun things. The rows where the vector is a prime number (like 5 or 7) have the row values as 1 or a multiple of the prime (5,10 or 7,21,35). There are diagonals of the Pascal triangle that add the Fibonacci numbers. Ark related that algebra sets you "free" to Free algebras of which Clifford algebras are special cases.
I can see that Ark, Clifford algebras, and conformal gravity groups appear in your speech as usual! That's good, it means that you are in good shape!

I am currently discussing the problem of time in quantum mechanics with Ark, and this is where the dilation operator unexpectedly appears. If time is discrete then the prime numbers will definitely show up there, but I don't know how yet, nevertheless I have it in mind.
 

John G

The Living Force
I can see that Ark, Clifford algebras, and conformal gravity groups appear in your speech as usual! That's good, it means that you are in good shape!

I am currently discussing the problem of time in quantum mechanics with Ark, and this is where the dilation operator unexpectedly appears. If time is discrete then the prime numbers will definitely show up there, but I don't know how yet, nevertheless I have it in mind.
Yeah my personality supposedly is susceptible to a one-track mind about things and I think in physics I just got lucky with my one-track. I've read that CFTs can have the dilation as a Hamiltonian time-like thing but I've also read that for SL(4,R) projective geometry (for space only) you need an extra one-form for time aka not the dilation in SL(4,R) aka SO(3,3). I've seen prime numbers related to nested loops for Sum-over-Histories but Sum-over-Histories is kind of too much data to do much with.
 

Natus Videre

Jedi Master
The question is why this division into sequence and metasequence. Do you know the Chebyshev theorem? Its content is as follows:

“For any integer n greater than 1, there is at least one prime number between n and 2n.”

And here, indeed, these prime numbers would be certain points on uncountable sections, but does this mean that uncountable sections would be a metasequence? How exactly do you understand that?

When it comes to math and philosophy, I think I understand what you mean. Philosophy seems to be a wider field, and mathematics seems to be a kind of mechanization or axiomatization, which, however, deprives us of certain information. But if we know the intervals in which there are no prime numbers, we are not deprived of information about which of the numbers are prime numbers.
There doesn't need to be any division between philosophy and mathematics. What is considered as "philosophical" may actually be mathematical, as observations (meta-sequences in this case) are also expressed in mathematical terms. The system is also the meta-system and vice versa. In this sense, the world is a lot more mathematical than we think. For example, if we consider the philosophical statement from the C's "You will do what you will do." there are concepts of perspective, free will and chaos embedded in that statement which resonate with mathematics. Even though mathematics appears to be rigid, formal, and precise, there are enough "infinities" or "possibilities" as a result of the interaction of mathematical objects to spawn a "natural" reality, i.e a reality that matches the level of awareness of its occupants. We are not stuck in a 2D plane, but, even if we were, we would have the tools necessary to overcome the obstacle and realize there is a 3D plane for example. Another analogy would be that there are papers, pencils and erasers waiting for you in front of every door you need to open to make progress.

However, are the numbers information in themselves or are they merely an abstract record of information?
I don't have a clear answer to that question, but I would tend to think that numbers possess an objective meaning in themselves. When I think of numbers, I think of symbols with energetic signatures. What is the mathematical/geometrical reason why the 353535 code is significant? What is the difference between 1 and 11? Is there an amplification or a reduction of the message? What if we say 1,2,3,4,5? Does that have an effect on us even if we do not know the possible meaning behind the sequence? What if reciting 34133412 would trigger our body to grow more facial hair? When we say "Love", what number or geometric arrangement appears? If we say "Hate", is the resulting arrangement the dual/complement/negation/inverse of "Love"? If we say "Hate", but make our intention positive, does that influence the resulting mathematical shape/frequency or the reception of the message? If "Love" and "Hate" are combined into a symbol, do the frequencies cancel each other? If so, what is the resulting number which matches that frequency? Are there numbers which carry only positive meanings, no matter the intent?

That's why I think there is an experimental gap that needs to be filled.
 

Cleopatre VII

Jedi Master
Maybe the numbers are not so much important as the proportions between them? At least consider the golden ratio. The proportions, in turn, lead straight to the fractals, and there may be some information in them. In this thread, I have already mentioned the similarities between a cell and a star. There are also similarities between the neural network and the large-scale structure of galaxies.

Maybe as an inspiration I will recommend this movie:

I'm curious about your insights.
 

ark

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Number one is certainly important (unity. Number three too (trinity). Also number 7 (seven densities). There are 3 basic quaternions and 7 basic octonions. Then there is Fibonacci. Golden spiral - Wikipedia
But whether there is a hidden informations within numbers, for instance in the series representing Pi? Or in the pattern of prime numbers? That is a good theme for sci-fi movies. Numerologists find information everywhere, but not so in numbers themselves, but rather in the circumstances in which they appear. But that is a whole new discussion.
 
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Natus Videre

Jedi Master
Maybe the numbers are not so much important as the proportions between them? At least consider the golden ratio. The proportions, in turn, lead straight to the fractals, and there may be some information in them. In this thread, I have already mentioned the similarities between a cell and a star. There are also similarities between the neural network and the large-scale structure of galaxies.

Maybe as an inspiration I will recommend this movie:

I'm curious about your insights.
A few months ago, I came across an interesting blog post Yin-Yang: The Geometric Equivalent of The Golden Ratio.
Let us call our desired number x and try to write down the concept behind Yin-Yang in the language of numbers and see if such number exists: We have x as our number; negate it to get -x; invert the negation to get -1/x. To express Yin-Yang is to add up these two numbers and have them equal 1. Thus, the algebraic equivalent of Yin-Yang would be the equation [x+(-1/x)]=1 which can be simplified as the following:

X – (1/X) = 1

This already looks like Yin-Yang :). For those with mathematics background this equation should blow their minds; it is none but the infamous equation that is the very definition of the Golden Ratio: Golden Ratio is the exact solution, and the only solution, of this quadratic equation. You will soon see that the second solution is just the negative of the inverse of the Golden Ratio, its maximally opposing complement which we call the Golden Complement. Let’s call this equation, the algebraic form of Yin-Yang, the Golden Equation since its solutions are the Golden Ratio and the Golden Complement; thus, this equation has two solutions in real numbers:

X – 1/X = 1 The Golden Equation (Equivalent of Yin-Yang in Algebra)

First Solution: X1 = 1.61803398875… The Golden Ratio
Second Solution: X2 = -0.61803398875… The Golden Complement

X1 + X2 = 1 The Golden Equation in terms of its two complementary solutions


The first solution is the Golden Ratio and the second solution is interestingly the inverse of the negative of the first solution, namely the Golden Complement. See that the two solutions corresponding to the two complementary aspects of Yin-Yang add up to unity, hence completing the Yin-Yang equivalent in algebra. Notice that the Golden Complement has the exact same decimals as the Golden Ratio itself which is the reason why the decimals cancel out in the Golden Equation, hence leading to unity.

We saw that there actually exists a unique number whose inverse of its negation can be added to it to become unity, the number 1, hence expressing the Yin-Yang principle in the realm of numbers, and this unique number is none but the Golden Ratio, the solution of the Golden Equation. Thus one side of Yin-Yang corresponds to the Golden Ratio and the other side corresponds to its maximally opposing counterpart, the negative of its inverse which is the Golden Complement, and the two adding up to unity by definition. Only the Golden Ratio has this property, and one can see as we showed above that the principle behind Yin-Yang, leading to the Golden Equation in algebra, is the very definition of the Golden Ratio.
The Golden Ratio (1.618...) and the Golden Complement (-0.618...) share the same decimal sequence. They are in a sense perfect mirrors of each other. Whenever a "new" number (or step) is added to the sequence of phi, i.e. 1.6180 becomes 1.61803, it's counterpart, also matches that number "simultaneously", i.e. -0.6180 becomes -0.61803. It appears like each part is "battling" with its counterpart in a dynamic way. Symbolized by Yin-Yang, balance is the result of this constant, infinitely long "fight" as both parts merge into One. I wonder if this is also a manifestation of Free Will, as one can decide to balance or imbalance the parts of the system which, despite all this movement, remains constant (1.000...).

Is Free Will possible because of Infinity?
 
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