Search for Enlightenment in Asian Traditions

Chaitanya Krishna das

The Force is Strong With This One
mkrnhr said:
Hi Chaitanya Krishna das,
A story being accepted (or not) is not relevent. Truth and falsehood do not depend on people's beliefs. Also, even if something is possible (and everything is possible), it doesn't mean that it is true in the way we think we understand it. Hope it's not too badly expressed.

I understand. That makes sense, because what most people, including myself, accept as "True" is quite often completely subjective. One of the things that attracted me to this forum is the fact that you guys view things objectively, which is a skill that has eluded me my whole life. I tend to get completely lost in my subjective universe, sometimes to an extreme. I'd like to learn to see objectively like Laura advocates doing, I'm just not real sure of a practical way to go about doing it.
 

SeekinTruth

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Chaitanya Krishna das said:
mkrnhr said:
Hi Chaitanya Krishna das,
A story being accepted (or not) is not relevent. Truth and falsehood do not depend on people's beliefs. Also, even if something is possible (and everything is possible), it doesn't mean that it is true in the way we think we understand it. Hope it's not too badly expressed.

I understand. That makes sense, because what most people, including myself, accept as "True" is quite often completely subjective. One of the things that attracted me to this forum is the fact that you guys view things objectively, which is a skill that has eluded me my whole life. I tend to get completely lost in my subjective universe, sometimes to an extreme. I'd like to learn to see objectively like Laura advocates doing, I'm just not real sure of a practical way to go about doing it.

Well, networking with a large group of people making efforts to find objectivity is the best way I know. And it's practical on this forum. Plus just being aware of the extent of our subjectivity gives us the opportunity to question ourselves/our beliefs and refine our understanding.
 

Gimpy

The Living Force
Chaitanya Krishna das said:
mkrnhr said:
Hi Chaitanya Krishna das,
A story being accepted (or not) is not relevent. Truth and falsehood do not depend on people's beliefs. Also, even if something is possible (and everything is possible), it doesn't mean that it is true in the way we think we understand it. Hope it's not too badly expressed.

I understand. That makes sense, because what most people, including myself, accept as "True" is quite often completely subjective. One of the things that attracted me to this forum is the fact that you guys view things objectively, which is a skill that has eluded me my whole life. I tend to get completely lost in my subjective universe, sometimes to an extreme. I'd like to learn to see objectively like Laura advocates doing, I'm just not real sure of a practical way to go about doing it.

Try this: take those books you consider to be 'fundamentally true', and shelve them. Walk away, and spend a week without reliance on such things. Observe what thoughts and feelings come up in the process.
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Chaitanya Krishna das said:
Well, for instance, we accept the Mahabharata as actual history, not as symbolic stories. And we accept the Srimad Bhagavatam as the actual history of the past hundreds of millions of years of THIS material universe. And if you read the Bhagavatam in conjunction with books like "Forbidden Archaeology" by Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson, and Laura's "Secret History of the World" books, it backs up the fundamentalist interpretation of these scriptures.

The Bhagavatam also states that our particular material universe is simply one of millions of material universes, and that all these millions of material universes make up only one fourth of the total creation, the other three-fourths being taken up by the spiritual universe, Vaikunthaloka.

I have couple of encounters with ISKCON people in couple of new age shows. Their narration goes in these lines “ Only Our guru TRULY translated gita and it is the ultimate thing”. I once asked politely “I prefer to think differently and How do you know it is true translation ?. How do you even know the Gita is original ?”. You can imagine the answer.


Here are some thoughts on Gita in India as I understand.

Normal Man is busy with materialistic needs , are ready go with any( God/Guru ) fad that fits bill and popular. So you will see infinite gods, rituals, dresses, physical, mental disciplines. These people doesn’t bother much about Gita except to project it as culture superiority. Anything related to pure Bhakti mode, people take with bucket of salt due to well publicized scandals that comes up often. But again as Gandhi said “poverty is the worst form of violence against humanity”. So poor( or greedy) can be made to do anything.

As for as I know, Intellectual types who look for meaning in life beyond material terms often turn to Gita. Since nobody knows the origins of it or very few know of Sanskrit, it almost falls under expertise of guru/sadhu’s whose narrations always differ, but the originating story seems to stick.

In these categories, some seems to follow physical and mental disciplines with meditation, Ayurveda along with using religious text ( to impart what they think moral values ex: chinmaya mission. More esoteric side paramahansa Yogananda type groups. They both use Gita as a narration focus. These are relatively harmless in my opinion.

The real harmful one’s are like self professed god men like saibaba , nityananda, many Amma’s and drug using sects and million other con men.

Since I started reading Laura’s/C’s stuff, I wondered about the origins of hindu texts. This is what C’s said regarding Veda’s. some of the text I posted in other threads. I will repeat.

Q: (L) My first question is: What is the source of the Vedas? The Hindu system of philosophy?
A: There is more than one source.
Q: (L) What is the general source, positive or...
A: A very vague question.
Q: (L) Was it a group of people that put them together over centuries, or was it channeled information, or...?
A: It came into being as a result of meditation.
Q: (L) And what race of people was responsible for this information?
A: Caucasian.
Q: (L) What period of time were the Vedas received.
A: Varying bits and pieces of information which later was organized into packages labeled as it is.
Q: (L) From what realm did this meditated information issue?
A: The realm of the subconscious mind.
Q: (L) Are any of the Vedas information that was given to man by extra-terrestrials?
A: Not as you would define it.
Q: (L) From what types of beings, or what level of density did this information issue from?
A: Third.
Q: (L) Can you give us anything more on that in a general sense?
A: If you ask.
Q: (L) What is the percentage of accuracy of the information given in the Vedas? Overall?
A: Accurate at what level?
Q: (L) Third Density.
A: Accurate to what extent and in what way?
Q: (L) Well, in a general sense, as a way of living one's life and perceiving the universe.
A: That's an extremely difficult question to answer as accuracy in determining such things as perceiving the universe and living one's life is entirely open to interpretation as anyone can resolve
accuracy by relating to the parallel universe which is appropriate for the information given. And, as we have stated in the past, it is possible to create parallel universes through thought energy,
and once they are created naturally, they correspond naturally to the interpretation given for them.

941020
Q: Who was the Queen of Sheba?
A: Fictional.
Q: Did a great queen come to visit King Solomon?
A: Alien influence.
Q: Who was Arjuna?
A: Same as Sheba.

Q: Who is Shiva?
A: Same.
Q: Rama?
A: Indian. High priest influenced by Confederation.

Q: When did the Aryans invade India?
A: 8243 years ago.
Q: Who was there before that?
A: Asian tribes and number 3 prototype.
Q: What is a number 3 prototype?
A: Known as Neanderthal man.
Q: And what are we?
A: Number 4 types c and d. Translation into English comprehension.
Regarding avatars
960203
Q: (MM) I would like to know if the Cassiopaeans are familiar with the entity that was on the three dimensional level known as Paramahansa Yogananda?
A: Third density, not three dimensional. And yes, but this entity had many aliases: Thorn, Christian, Mobson Singh, etc.
Q: (MM) Where is Paramahansa now?
A: Fifth Density.
Q: (MM) Is he the Avatar?
A: That is a subjective, artificial concept of the self- styled variety.

If the purana’s and others were derived from veda’s and veda’s didn’t talk about material gods where did these gods came from in purana’s ?.
If Rama is a priest how did he became reincarnation of Vishnu ?
If Arjuna is fictional, what else is fictional - the entire mahabharat including Bhagavat Gita?. Or somebody did ‘mythisisation of history and historization of Myth’ ?.

We read in high school history lessons that people/kings who follow shiva and Vishnu fought real/intellectual battles to prove their superiority their god to each other. How is it different from other religions ?.

I wrote my thoughts ( could be wrong though) after reading the Immanuel Velikovsky book ‘Worlds in Collision’ here.. Imanuel velilovsky’s deduced from veda’s Vishnu as Venus , Shiva as Jupiter.
If Krishna is reincarnation of Vishu which is a comet turned planet, can we say Krishna is another comet ?. Obviously we don’t have the details or timelines of where it started.

Interestingly , Vishnu’s 10th avatar Kalki supposed to come in from sky on horse with knife in hand to kill the bad guys. This is also depiction of comets.
You may want to read laura’s latest book comets and Horns of Moses for role of comets in history.
some thing to think..
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
At this point in my research, I would say that the Indian myths are most likely much the same, in terms of initiating influences, as the Central Asian and Mesopotamian myths: comets and bombardment and fire and floods and electrical activity - just the whole gamut of "godly activities".
 

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
At this point in my research, I would say that the Indian myths are most likely much the same, in terms of initiating influences, as the Central Asian and Mesopotamian myths: comets and bombardment and fire and floods and electrical activity - just the whole gamut of "godly activities".


In the Yoga-Vaishtha there is a mention of five extinctions, one of the passages I read fits very well with comets and/or global war. The
Yoga-Vasishtha of Valmiki, Nirvana-Prakarana with Sanskrit and English, is published by Parimal Publications in Delhi _http://www.parimalpublication.com/Bookdesc.aspx?id=220
 

Merlin

Padawan Learner
Couldn't help adding my two-bits as I noticed the title 'Enlightenment' . . .

Can I direct you to the Book - > "The Mystique of Enlightenment: The Radical Ideas of U.G. Krishnamurti" April 1, 2002
by U. G. Krishnamurti (He was a radical Indian Philosopher - a bit like Laura :cool:)

Excerpts from Amazon.com:-
--------------------------------
"An underground spiritual classic distributed widely for the first time in the U.S., this is the story of one of the most unusual figures in contemporary spirituality, U.G. Krishnamurti, in his own words. The Mystique of Enlightenment is a scathing critique of contemporary spirituality.

It is fairly common in reading modern spiritual books to find references to U. G. Krishnamurti's influence on both teachers and their students. His books have been translated into nearly every European language, as well as Chinese and Japanese. Widely regarded in India and Europe, The Mystique of Enlightenment is considered by U.G.'s closest associates to be the best summary of his ideas.

The book consists of transcripts of informal talks with those who come to ask him questions. In one of these talks, he relates his life story, including the events leading up to and comprising what he calls his "calamity," or his entry into the natural state. Since his own experience of coming into the natural state at age 49, he has spent his time traveling throughout the world, staying with friends or in rented apartments for a few months at a time. He gives no public talks, but meets with people who come to see him. What he offers is not hope or encouragement, but stark reality: "Of one thing I am certain. I cannot help you solve your basic dilemma or save you from self-deception, and if I can't help you, no one can." His message is simple: he has no message. Nevertheless, his words can inspire you to face your own assumptions and motivations and discover for yourself what is true."
 

Tycho

Jedi Master
As there is no time this reply doesnt "come late" :)

But pretty much all the different sects of the Hindu religion follow the Bhagavad Gita, and it states clearly that Krishna is the Supreme Divinity.

Could you quote this clear statement? I am not an expert on the "Bhagavad Gita", i just always had the _impression_ that Krishna is one of many incarnations of a "higher being". In retroperspective he could be "just" a 4th density entity"?
 

heartmosiya

The Force is Strong With This One
Hi, i have read most of these Vedic scriptures and still trying to understand about whose who in the zoo. However my mind was captured by the book (The Greatness of Saturn, A Therapeutic Myth by Dr Robert E. Svoboda.)this book is one of the books that you must read especially if your quest for enlightenment is still brewing. This book is not just a book, you are been warned. Arrest my case if indoubt.😤
 
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