Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work


Jedi Council Member
We are programmed to crave sex, it is part of what keeps 4D STS in business. That it has other possibilities beyond "feeding the machine" is largely ancillary to the design function of humanity.

We are here to learn through owning these bodies, our mind and our heart. To experience fully. If you are too afraid to do any part of it, then STS has already won.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
From the medieval knight and lady to the couples of the Regency romances
After I wrote the post about the knight and lady in the tales of the Faerie Queene, and the possible relation to Regency-style romance novels, I wondered if there not after all was a very serious difference. Isn't the story of the knight about slaying dragons and monsters in the outer world in faithful service to God, rather than just succeeding to communicate, tell the truth and eventually share love and family joys, as we often read in the Regency romances? More challenging, would it be possible to integrate the possible message of a painting, called The Dedication by Edmund Blair Leighton (21 September 1852 – 1 September 1922), an English painter, (see this collection or this) most famous for his painting The Accolade. Edmund Blair Leighton was like Sir Frederic William Burton the painter of The Meeting on Turret Stairs loosely connected with the style of the Pre Raphaelite Brotherhood. Here is the painting by Edmund Leighton:

Comparing the above painting to the covers showing close intimacy found on many Regency romance novels, though not all, it is hard to deny there is a significant gap in the motives. Attempting to relate them to each other forces one to go beyond the apparent differences, in this case through an interpretation of the motive in this painting and for Regency novels by referring to examples of how characters who join in one novel play a facilitating role in a later novel of the same series. Before reading the interpretation of the painting, consider taking a moment to have another look, because apart from the name of the painting, I could not find any analysis of the motive.

An attempt to analyze the motive in "The Dedication"
In the above painting and taking a lead from the title, The Dedication, one has a knight who dedicates his sword to God. Seen in isolation we don't know what kind of enemy he is expecting or preparing to meet. Is it inner or outer is it abstract or concrete? Judging from the presence of a ready horse and a helper waiting outside, it looks like it is an outer enemy, - the knight is about to leave his home and his lady, he is getting ready for action. To the left of the knight is his lady. She very slightly bends towards him - if one judges from the line formed by her shoulders. She has closed eyes and is in prayer. We don't know for what she is praying for, but she would have a clear interest, and not only for her own sake, in his success and safe return. Maybe she is also worried about their children, her family, and dependants. Before the couple came to this stage, they were probably married sometime in the past. How they came to be married we don't know, but in all likelihood, the knight proved his worth and the lady in some way too whether by deed or inheritance. In case of doubt, the whole mass of regency romance is ready to fill us in on the details before marriage, except those that happened according to prearranged contracts. The knight in the painting has a red cross which is associated with Saint George, the patron saint of England, but one could also claim that the painting from 1908 pays tribute to the story of Una and Red Cross Knight, by Edmund Spenser published in the 1590s or something even more ancient like the time of the crusades:
Saint George became widely venerated as a warrior saint during the Third Crusade. There was a legend that he had miraculously assisted Godfrey of Bouillon; also that Richard the Lionheart had placed himself under his protection.[2] According to legend, the crusaders received miraculous help at the siege of Antioch on 28 June 1098 from a great army on white horses, clothed in white and bearing white banners, led by St George, St Demetrius, and St Mercurius. However, there was no association of the red cross with St George before the end of the crusades.[3]

The red cross in particular was associated with the Knights Templar, from the time of the Second Crusade (1145),[4] but in 1188 red and white crosses were chosen to identify the French and English troops in the "Kings' Crusade" of Philip II of France and Henry II of England, respectively. Together with the Jerusalem Cross, the plain red-on-white became a recognizable symbol of the crusader from about 1190, and in the 13th century it came to be used as a standard or emblem by numerous leaders or polities who wanted to associate themselves with the crusades.[clarification needed] The red-on-white combination was chosen by Aragon, among others. Saint George was depicted as a crusader knight during this time, but the red cross had no particular association with him. A crusader-era fresco in the crypt of Trani cathedral shows Saint George wearing a white cross on a red surcoat. The white-on-red version was chosen as the Reichsbanner ("imperial banner") by the German crusaders in the 12th century, and Emperor Frederick II used it in his European campaigns of the 1250s after he had returned from the crusades. It continued to be used as the Reichssturmfahne ("imperial war flag") of the Holy Roman Empire, eventually giving rise to the flag of Savoy and the present-day flags of Switzerland and Denmark).

Connecting the medieval knight and lady to the joined couples of the Regency romance novels
I think it is fair to say, that the slaying of the internal dragons and demons in the form of trauma, blockages, and lies is a no less feat than the work of a knight ready for battle, although the ladies in the regency romances also have inner dragons to slay, just as both lords and ladies of the novels have an inner conscience to befriend in a consistent manner.

While all the Regency romance novels we read have a happy ending for the protagonists, in some cases the newly gained union also affects the course of later events, or one could say that once joined some couples work for the good of the world even beyond their own family happiness of love, comfort and children. In the Courting Julia Trilogy, one may notice that the couple that is formed in the first book help to resolve the issue in the second, Dancing with Clara, just as the protagonists of this novel help to resolve the situation between the protagonists in the third volume, Tempting Harriet. While we also read examples of single friends helping each other, as very clearly seen in the first book of the Sons of Sin series, it can't be overlooked in the plots of some of the romance novels that couples, where husband and wife work together can be a powerful force for supporting the strivings of others to overcome their own inner dragons, achieve integration and union with their Love.


FOTCM Member
I had a series of about 10 posts in the finding partners thread about 5 years ago with some pretty high ideals about sexuality, but came to the conclusion that that type of esoteric relationship was an impossibility, or at least highly unlikely. In all seriousness, I don't think I have the emotional warmth that a potential partner would need. I could be wrong, but I can't really picture myself in a relationship when it comes to day to day living. The primary hurdle that even blocks the attempt is trying to discern someone with the correct receivership capacity to even try. So yes, I've given up on any possibility of romance for the foreseeable future, but I can still visualize it in a more generalized way.

It sounds like you have high expectations for yourself and for any potential partner and IMO you're really overthinking (both the books and this issue in general). Are there any circumstances where you could picture yourself in a relationship? If not in this life then maybe in a future life?

If you think a potential partner would need you to have more emotional warmth then it might be a good idea to start developing that quality in yourself. Maybe you are yearning for your ideal partner and she is yearning for the ideal you. When you meet each other it is likely that neither one of you will be "perfect" because we are polar beings and part of the learning process here in 3D is to help each other. I took a somewhat different tact than you before I met my wife, but a turning point for me was when I decided to stop lamenting what I perceived to be my shortcomings and start really working to be an "ideal man" physically, emotionally and mentally. When I write this out it sounds kind of arrogant to me, but its true. Obviously we all have inherited genetic limitations, but we can learn and grow in most ways.

When I met my wife we saw something in each other immediately and connected. We talked about what we wanted, committed to being honest with each other and helping each other to grow. My wife inspires me to want to be better, to work to be better. A perfect relationship may not be possible in 3D, but we can keep striving for it and working on ourselves and helping each other. Maybe we will meet again in the next life and our next attempt will be better.

So if you think your ideal partner would need emotional warmth, work on developing that quality in yourself. If you think your ideal partner would like a "hunk" like one of the men in these books, then start working out. Have faith that you will meet, if not in this life than in another life, and that you will be works in progress and you will need to help each other.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I like the concept of trying out different authors. Here is what Kinshale writes about the process of writing My Sweet Folly:
Some readers have complained that the prologue of My Sweet Folly was wonderful, while the ending was disappointing. The prologue was one of those gifts of the Muse—as soon as I finished it, I knew I could never write a book that would live up to the promise of those beautiful letters between Folie and Robert. I tried, but this book was completed at the absolute worst of the conflict between me and my muse (you can read more of this ongoing battle in Laura Makes Tea). I actually have little memory of the book myself—people mention scenes to me, and its as if I never even read it! I think I was in a state of creative shell-shock at that time in my life.

So I’m deeply honored that many readers call this one their favorite, and that it was nominated for Best Long Historical and Favorite Book by RWA. I have no doubt it could have been better, more “even” in execution overall, but I feel fortunate that it even got finished. Folie, with her ferret and her humor, remains my favorite heroine of all, just edging out Leda of The Shadow and the Star.
The above description leads me to think that some of the passages in the books we read come from a deep level, be it a creative subconscious or channeled, just as the book by Helen Greaves and the three by Elsa Barker that I reviewed in the afterlife thread, except that in this romance novel there is no named source, and it may be less consistent, as also the above conflict reveals, but it is very hard to imagine, there has been no collaboration with the other side.
I finished this book rather fast to my surprise. In fact, it is longer than the previous books I read. Though it doesn't have the usual deliberate attempt to heal the protagonist, the story has an interesting combination of paranormal, conspiracy, magic, and most importantly honest rationality to figure out a complex plot, which is gripping. Little smart humor in between fits into the intriguing story very well. When the words fail for verbal communication due to programs, falling back to the writing communication is interesting. The final unraveling climax scene is somewhat chaotic, which makes me reread that part.


FOTCM Member
PS: If I may: As for you not being spicy and "initiated".... Let me tell you: if half of what men brag about was true, and if women were so satisfied with what's going on in the bedroom ( awesome sex, 7th Heaven kind of stuff)... These books we are reading, they wouldn't sell so well !!!!

Exactly. And then you think about this:

A true warrior cannot be strong against the enemy without the lady. The lady cannot provide the energy without the castle and the "bower" of love.

In other words, it's a Catch-22: The man needs energy from the lady, but the lady needs the man to provide the "bower" to effectively produce/convey that energy so that he can be a warrior and serve and protect. Both can survive and even flourish on their own, but done properly, both parties give and benefit at the same time more than they could alone.

In still other words, when it comes to romantic relationships between men and women, the man isn't a real man without the woman, and the woman isn't a real woman without the man. It's a 2-way street.

In our glorious modern age, it seems that the goal is to abolish this connection and instead promote disdain and division between the sexes - as well as to completely eliminate "normally functioning" genders!

In any case, one of the parts of these books that I like the most is the man who appears a certain way, or the woman who appears a certain way - stubborn, cold, aloof, intellectual, independent, whatever...

These facades are then slowly... well, not 'broken down', but maybe 'accessed' by the other romantic partner - and in both directions. Part of that is the physical stuff.

In some of the stories, the physical leads to more real intimate bonding. In others, that bonding happens first, and then it's cemented by the physical stuff. Sometimes both!

I don't think there's any 'right' way for that to happen. It would depend IMO very strongly on the characters, quirks, histories, and features of the 2 people involved.

Obviously, no one can say that we're all gonna find someone like that in this life. But I think it IS nonetheless rather interesting to contemplate. Many of the Dukes were quite 'experienced', but that didn't prepare them AT ALL for a real relationship when their Lady came along - and the same holds true for the women in many cases.

So, I still think it's quite handy to read and think about the stories and characters, and maybe ask questions that we wouldn't normally ask.

For example, instead of "He's a jerk! He shouldn't have done that!", we ask: "How am I like this duke?" It's a good question to ask, especially if you tend towards intellectual criticism that often masks an underlying emotional component.

It's a wonderful opportunity for self-examination. We don't need to have the same experiences to emotionally relate to (or engage with) a specific character. But we do probably need to set aside most of the preconceived notions we have about men, women, relationships, and especially sex and its potential function.

BTW, I finished Marry in Scandal, and I loved it. Now reading Marry in Scarlet. Wonderful series!!



FOTCM Member
The man needs energy from the lady, but the lady needs the man to provide the "bower" to effectively produce/convey that energy so that he can be a warrior and serve and protect. Both can survive and even flourish on their own, but done properly, both parties give and benefit at the same time more than they could alone.
It may be off topic here but this reminds me of PSI experiments were the outcomes for women were strong but unfocused, meaning that half the time the outcome corresponds to the intent and half the time the outcome is contrary to the intent, while the outcomes for men were more aligned with the intent but the effects were weak. When they experimented with couples, the effects were stronger and more aligned with the intent/goal. It's simplified but that's the general idea OSIT.


The Living Force
Neil said:
We are programmed to crave sex, it is part of what keeps 4D STS in business. That it has other possibilities beyond "feeding the machine" is largely ancillary to the design function of humanity.

Is that really so? In this world, no sex = no life, no creation (what a revelation, lol). You will tell me the aim is to get out of here - of this STS, material, evil world. But reread this:

Q: (T) Now wait a minute. I am losing the whole train here. What were we before the "Fall?"

A: 3rd density STO.

Q: (T) Didn't you tell us that 3rd density beings could not be STO? (L) No. They said there are 3rd density STO beings. (T) We are STS at this point because of what happened then?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Okay, now, we were STO at that time. The Lizards opened the door, we are using this as an allegory, I guess, the Lizards opened the door and showed us a pot of gold hoping that we would reach in for the pot, or walk through the door, when they were waiting for us on the other side in order to take us over in some way. Am I on the right track?

A: Hoping is incorrect idea.

Q: (T) Okay, what was it they were trying to do by enticing us?

A: Trying is incorrect idea, continue to probe for learning opportunity.

Q: (T) We were 3rd density STO at this time

And this:

A: Here comes a shocker for you... one day, in 4th density, it will be your descendants mission to carry on the tradition and assignment of seeding the 3rd density universe, once you have the adequate knowledge!!!

And how do you seed 3rd density universe?:-D Do you consider seeding life as an STS mission? Can we envision an STO oriented 3D world, where sex would be manifested in a positive way? I think we can, and it starts here, now. Not necessarily with your actions (no one is suggesting you go hunt for girls on Tinder or start sleeping around), but with your own attitude towards the whole topic. And that's where the books can help you, if you would just stop trying to resist the process.

If you don't deal - sincerely, honestly - with your frustration and hurt, you're stifling your progress. I don't call that Working on the self. It's just being self-righteous, pretending you're doing the right thing while ignoring a huge part of yourself, what your body and heart are telling you.
It transpires quite strongly in your posts. I almost picture you whipping yourself with fresh nettles while composing the above post ("my base urges", "this is STS stuff we've been programmed into"… "Move on, nothing to see here") Or maybe I'm just projecting ;-)
It's obvious you're hurting - no matter how much you try to scoff at it and cover it up with intellectualizations and aloofness and "critical thinking".
Never been kissed on the lips? That's horrible. I feel for you. Don't take this as pity at all, I just think it's wrong. Utterly wrong (well, unless someone's a paragon of "purity" and etherealness with 0 libido and 0 emotional need).
And with all the nonsense that is going on (Covidiocy, gender propaganda, attack on men), the less people will kiss and touch. Not even in a sexual way - in a tender, affectionate way.
We know what happens to babies when they're deprived of touch and cuddling: they regress, wither and die. Quite horrible.

Going back to the statement: "We are programmed to crave sex":

Sure, when you're young, it's normal to crave sex as such - to crave the experience. Experience brings suffering for most people. Unless you're a genius who can learn from the mistakes of others, I'm afraid you (I'm speaking in general terms) need to experience first what love isn't in order to have a more objective idea of what it is, and try to align with that ideal, where the craving for sex as sex becomes a craving for true connection with someone, and where sex is just one of the many ways you can express your deep feelings, and strenghten the bond with your partner. But, again, how can you have a clear idea of what you truly want/need, of what love / real intimacy truly is (or could be), when you don't have the experience (for most people, unfortunately, the experience involves learning what love ISN'T)? As I said above, it starts with a shift in your perception, in your attitude. And then, a bit of faith in the Universe will help, too. Just don't close the door. And keep reading :-)


FOTCM Member
It may be off topic here but this reminds me of PSI experiments were the outcomes for women were strong but unfocused, meaning that half the time the outcome corresponds to the intent and half the time the outcome is contrary to the intent, while the outcomes for men were more aligned with the intent but the effects were weak. When they experimented with couples, the effects were stronger and more aligned with the intent/goal. It's simplified but that's the general idea OSIT.

This is very interesting and I remember what my Gurdjieff teacher Mrs. Cynthia Pearce said (when I attended classes in the 70's) about the relationships between men and women. If I am reporting from memory correctly she said that the man must be like a steady anchor in the relationship (which is not easy!) and this helps the woman to navigate her very powerful emotions (which are a form of information) that can change very quickly and this helps maintain a balance for both of them aiding in staying true to an objective alignment with objective reality (I'm paraphrasing what she said here).

From my own experience I found that the woman already knows reality from a very deep emotional/intuitive perspective, amazingly so. She already knows the Work from a very deep level, and the man helps her to remember what she knows by being like this anchor.

She also mentioned that, of all identifications, sex is the strongest identification we have.

Mrs Pearce was a very beautiful woman (in her late 70's) and very fierce (possibly like Gurdjieff). She was thrown off a horse at some point in her life and had to deal with pain for many years and her struggle with pain (I would think) just increased her "intensity' and "beingness" in the Work. Her fierceness was just her particular style (she reminded me of a samurai) and when it comes to "beauty" in a woman (or even a man I guess), I think it's based on the depth of the quality of humanness that comes with age and even gets "etched" in the face. In other words, when speaking of beauty, animal beauty comes with the peak of their physical prowess but human beauty comes with age
with the development of their humanness.

OK, I'll stop here. I don't want to sidetrack the discussions and observations on this thread that I'm reading with interest on this book thread. Just some quick observations.

I had to wait weeks to get the book I ordered from ebay (!) (Seven Nights) and starting on that now.


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I just wanted to mention something I thought of today: y'all remember that the Cs said when things get really weird that we are to "relax and enjoy the show", right? Well, until I started reading these books, there was simply no way in Hades that I was able to do that.

But now, I find myself actually relaxing and able to check in on the world and see what a freaking farce it all is, and just realize that there is nothing any of us can do to change it for all those people who have chosen that mess, but we can DREAM of a different reality, and continue to send out a signal that we don't agree with the one we find ourselves in.

Thank you all who are reading and sharing impressions and discoveries, and thank you Laura for reminding us of this marvelous and objective perspective. I thought I had finished reading the Sons of Sin series but reading Seek10's spreadsheet I've found out there's one more novella to read, and I'm delighted to continue reading about those brave men and women and their lessons! Thank you with all my heart!

NewEngland Seeker

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
This touches on one resistance I am feeling towards the reading project even though I'm continuing for the other reasons that this thread has highlighted. I have engaged in sex first based on mutual attraction on a number of occasions and tried to build relationship from there which were grand failures. That could have much to do with the kind of relationship that I find attracting, or it could be more about a pathological idealism and self calming developed to counter experiences of violence, catastrophism, toxic control and jealousy to the degree that I could be either totally blind to red flags in those area's, or sweep them under the rug where attraction was involved. In any case, I'd pretty much decided that sex first was going to be a no-no for me.

I am with you on this point. For me I have seen how wonderful girls & women have been seduced by sex gamers and end up with shattered hearts and lives. I became aware of this power and realized that I could do the same damage if I really did not want a lasting relationship with someone I was flirting with. For this reason I have learned not to toy with others heart's.

I also have observed in relationships that did sex before full understanding of each other would crumble to dust once the grinding reality of their mundane life became center stage. Their inability to shovel their shit without mutual animosity and resentment about the spouse's unwillingness to do their share blocked their progress. This understanding has proved to be the central reality of the couples I know that have successful/happy marriages. Because of this understanding I do not believe the happy endings in those stories that did passion first. For me healthy individuals will avoid passion entanglements until they know the relationship can handle the demands of a mundane life.

Because of this awareness I had told my children when they were dating that to make sure that the one they marry is able to shovel shit and can they work well together. Furthermore, that they will not marry their happiness, but will marry their work. So take time to dig deep into each others baggage.

I am enjoying this exercise and have been paying more attention to my emotions, which is oft neglected. I sense this part of me is awakening so all is good. 😍


FOTCM Member
Ark was once giving a little talk about sex to some young fellows and later told me part of what he had said to them. These guys were entertaining the idea that sex was "non-spiritual" and urges should be suppressed and stamped out. So he pointed out that the Cs had said that the STO profile was to be able to give ALL to one who asks. Then he asked: "what if your wife/partner asks/wants/needs you to make love all night? Can you do it?"

The point is, if you can't learn to give what is asked to just one single person, how can you ever imagine to be practicing STO candidacy?

I know the above may seem a bit simplistic, but think about it awhile.

And no, I don't think guys are able to do it 3 and 4 times a night, but there is such a thing as stopping short, cooling down, and saving for more later. And if the point is to give pleasure, share love and oneness, isn't that a better way to do it? Make it last a loooong time? Engage the heart, the soul, all parts of the being AND self-control for the sake of something beyond just raw sex?


FOTCM Member
Just started the Wicked Deeds of Daniel MacKenzie and I like it because I've laughed out loud few times. He actually reminds me in some ways of my grandfather, also a Scotsman, though not as wealthy - still my grandfather was always giving money away to those who needed help, that was a bane of my Aunts life and she never stopped complaining about it. My grandfather was never the same after my grandmother died. Even when he was losing his memory with alzheimers and he couldn't remember who we were, he'd often say something like 'you'd have to be one of mine, you've got Dulcies eyes'. He never forgot her and had a very hard time adjusting to life without her. He never gave up singing, telling jokes and laughing though and kept a good work ethic where he could even after retiring and when he was slowing down and losing his mind. My grandfather also acknowledged insults and laughed at himself over them. Well, aye. My great grandmother could be particularly nasty to him, but he still doted on her, paid for and escorted her on trips, and did what she asked of him.

The series brings to mind a remark a work mate used to often make when a couple come into work who seemed to have a really good relationship. She'd kind of say in a saucy low voice 'Phew, the sex must be good in that relationship'. The comment kind of didn't sit square with me but I couldn't put my finger on why. We were very busy at work and I really didn't have the time to consider the comment back then. I've realised that it's probably because it's not just about the sex, while an important ingredient, it's also about the desire to grow together. It's just as common to hear some complain about their relationships and when asked 'why do you stay'. Sometimes the answer is that 'well, the sex is good'. So, really the ideal is probably a combination of both. Good compatible sex and a desire to grow together. Strange that this workmate used to make that comment, she didn't seem overly happy with the sex in her own relationship. I wonder if she read romance novels?


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I finished What a Duke Dares earlier this week. This one seemed different than the first two, and was kind of slow for me. Despite some action of guns, carriages and ships it seemed to progress like the left half of a bell curve. I found myself anxious for the real romance to begin.

But it did conclude nicely. It seems a sort of sacrifice at the end allowed all of the characters to open their eyes and start amending things. It had two couples in the book, and I had trouble relating as much to the second. It seems that maybe more focus could be placed on one couple, and you could just place all of the experiences with them. But maybe when creating characters you have to place some limits.

The end was pretty good. I was able to guess the part where Cam gives Pen the Goya painting she had painted of her. I had looked up Goya paintings when he was mentioned earlier in the novel.

On my way home from work Monday I had an unexpected feeling of excitement. I wondered where it was coming from. I only had a little over an hour of the audiobook left, so I pushed through and finished it. Later that night I had a dream of Laura and the Chateau, and it was Laura's birthday. It's uncommon for actual forum members to be in my dreams, as usually I only have high school friends in them. So I think something was processing.


The Living Force
So he pointed out that the Cs had said that the STO profile was to be able to give ALL to one who asks. Then he asked: "what if your wife/partner asks/wants/needs you to make love all night? Can you do it?"

Well, I do not think that this is correct. When somebody really asks, then he or she do not base on his own needs/demands/wishes, because all of these converge to body demands, and then this is just one of many ways of how STS person achieve his goals. These are DEMANDS not ASKS.

I think we touch something different here. The reason for the "young fellows" of being in certain way "opposite" toward sex is their own thinking about the sex and how they can come out while intercourse. When I did for the first time a have problem with full erection. I saw her womanliness, she had wanted "that". Well seriously I was wandered about all of it. I didn't know what was happening! However, nothing bad happened to me, and girl take easy such things (look they wanted that night if they do not want they would not be here, they had that imagination of you in the bed anyway); and the further sex acts were better and better.

There is no reason about connecting sex with the STO, because this (STO) is deep and higher idea than satisfaying of any physicality of any human being. That is other kind of the problem. The problem is lack of acceptation that they want to do something that is not STO in core. But they need to accept that this is something natural for them in the current state. As C's said you aren't STO untli you achieve the STO in the time of the wave or in the next incarnation as the STO. So sex always be with us (in our current state) and it is written into our very basic needs, like food, like air, like... and THIS is what is important to understand.

But strictly to the Ark question: "what if your wife/partner asks/wants/needs you to make love all night? Can you do it?" I think yes, but is about the what you call the "love all night", if I should penetrating through the whole night, I would probably end in the hospital. But if you say about the oral sex doing by her when I just laying on the bed and can grasp the air or just laying next to here and kissing delicate her neck and touch her by fingertips then okay, also if you add to this visit in toilet and some drink then okay, I think I can do this.

BTW, if somebody is afraid of premature ejaculation then good is to go into "substitius" like cunnilingus, nipple care or caressing point G, woman react to these very good. You can did the good job yet before penetration, however after penetration everyone can handle by loosen of kegel muscles, these responsible for urination, if you push outside delicately your kegla muscles, just like you want to take out your piss, this is similiar to how you would like to take out you piss, but without to much force in it. It "calm the situation". Really, it helps a lot. It is counter act to the gaining pleasure from the sex, by tighten kegel muscles.

Also I want to add that this is not really important, I think, to give pleasure to woman through the all night. They have also their tolerance. 1-2 hour/hours is enough I think. After that they senses may be overhelmed, the feeling of touch may be different, can be annoying then giving pleasure. Womanliness also can need some of the peace. Women do not have ejaculation, however their womenlinesses need to be correctly moisturized and sometimes it leaves and can give even pain, if couple do not have any of the supportive substances etc.

PLEASE READ IT: I was very direct with my descriptions. I would never allow myslef to do this in the other part of the forum. Hope you understand me. The books recommended in the thread contain much more of such content, artistically and sensorially enhanced, so I expect that we understand each other...


The Living Force
PLEASE READ IT: I was very direct with my descriptions. I would never allow myslef to do this in the other part of the forum. Hope you understand me. The books recommended in the thread contain much more of such content, artistically and sensorially enhanced, so I expect that we understand each other...
I don't think it was necessary to mount such a hot sauce to accompany what was just a simple example to unblock like a kôan moment, the normal progression from the bottom to the top by going in this situation from the top to the bottom of these young people.
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