Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work

Joe

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Why do you think that all religions insist on using sex only for continuation of human kind?

And you think all religions are right on everything? That none of them have been twisted and manipulated for nefarious purposes? Wow, you know less than I thought.

And who says that hunger of the soul wont stay once the body expire?

Exactly, that "hunger" you are running away from and denying will persist until you find the courage to confront it and master it. You don't master anything by running from it.

And I'm not speaking from my head,many years ago for some time I was in "this field" with few people. Other than realization of which I'm talking to you right now,nothing good come out of it.

"I'm not speaking from my head", then you go on to give a personal, subjective experience that came directly from your 'head'.

You are playing with very dangerous fire here. In many "circles" this is considered dark arts,and for a good reason.

Yeah, I can see them now: cowled figures meeting in a circle at midnight to read romance novels. Scary!
 

Joe

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But the hook to reader is on sex/sexual innuendo.

You mean the hook to YOU. I think you should be more honest with yourself and acknolwedge that you are recounting personal, subjective experiences, and NOT universal truths. It would be useful for you acknowledge the OBJECTIVE TRUTH that you CANNOT speak for everyone else. On that point: at what stage in your life did you decide that everything you experience is true for everyone else?

There's an 'Zen' story that seems to define your attitude to this topic.

Two Monks and a Woman

A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his 
journey.

The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”

Guess which monk you are.
 

Joe

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reilpmeit. Everything you've written on this topic seems to be narratives designed to do precisely one thing: avoid suffering. Sex drive and the way it acts in us and the task of struggling with it and attempting to master it is perhaps the biggest challenge for humans. It seems you've had a taste of how difficult that challenge is, and have decided that you're not up to the task. That's fine. But the problem arises when you attempt to convince everyone else that they're also not up to the task, that in fact, NO ONE is. That's pure hubris.
 

reilpmeit

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Seems like you're saying that there is no way to engage in sex that is not always a craving for self-gratification. That's obviously over-simplified and seems to reflect your own limited experience rather than a real struggle with and deeper understanding of the dynamics involved.
By design, lust cannot happen between two souls. Similiary there is not lust between two organic portals.Lust as precursor for sexual intercourse,happens between souled individual and OP. That is why religions insist on love and why bloodlines are so important.
 

seek10

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A good resource for this is goodreads.com. On each author's page you can see each of their series. Just scroll down a bit. For example:
Goodreads is an amazon company and what they show in the site is sample chapters. They have some books for free, I doubt any of these books will be on the free list. they have a library button below the book, which tells which library card allow them for a free read. But, that library list seems very limited.

Even with library cards( overdrive, hoopladigital etc), I found some limits set by the local library as they have to pay ( .99 to 2.99 per borrow and of course that comes from our taxes) for each book we borrow. I have 5 books per month limit in hoopladigital and 3 books from overdrive. We have our own local libraries from which we can borrow physical books. That itself a LOT to cover for a month.
 

Joe

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By design, lust cannot happen between two souls. Similiary there is not lust between two organic portals.Lust as precursor for sexual intercourse,happens between souled individual and OP. That is why religions insist on love and why bloodlines are so important.

Again, you keep making these sweeping generalized statements that are, by definition, WRONG because they are sweeping generalizations. You clearly aren't here to think or learn anything, but to spout subjective narratives.
 

seek10

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This is ego talking- "Real sex is awful ,let's just imagine it as something better"
Ultimately there is no difference. Real question is "Why I'm imaging sex,or about sex in the first place?"
Can you specify what is awful in sex? There are millions of people who go to sex therapy for not having libido.
Rigid or not,it is truthful. Reading "romantic" novels,watching porn,or "practicing sex to achieve better relatioships" all falls under abuse of sex as Gudjieff say. There are different levels of abuse,but abuse is abuse. Why do you think that all religions insist on using sex only for continuation of human kind?Just to annoy you?
Sexual energy is complicated and its effects permeate into many areas including non-sexual imaginations. some eastern teachings talk about using sex for the procreation only even in monogamy and their efforts were not successful in any sense as they themselves no clue of bigger fish ( 4D STS)
Sex can be mixed with love.But it is the love that loses part of itself because of lust. Real love dosen't have sexual component in itself.The truer love,the lesser lust is.And true love can not came from lust itself. You can lie to yourself as much as you want,but this is a fact.Not dogma,but pragmatic fact.
what is your definition of Love? G's definition of Love has many categories.
You must learn to distinguish among at least three kinds of love (though there are seven in all): instinctive love, emotional love, and conscious love. There is not much fear that you cannot learn the first two, but the third is rare and depends upon effort as well as intelligence. Instinctive love has chemistry as its base. All biology is chemistry, or perhaps we should say al-chemistry; and the affinities of instinctive love, manifesting in the attractions, repulsions, mechanical and chemical combinations we call love, courtship, marriage, children and family, are only the human equivalents of a chemist's laboratory. But who is the chemist here? We call it Nature. But who is Nature? As little do we suspect as the camphor which is married to the banyan suspects a gardener. Yet there is a gardener. Instinctive love, being chemical, is as strong, and lasts as long, as the substances and qualities of which it is the manifestation. . . . These can be known and measured only by one who understands the alchemical progression we call heredity. Many have remarked that happy or unhappy marriages are hereditary. So, too, are the number of children, their sex, longevity, etc. The so-called science of astrology is only the science (when it is) of heredity over long periods.

Emotional love is not rooted in biology. It is, in fact, as often anti-biological in its character and direction. Instinctive love obeys the laws of biology, that is to say, chemistry, and proceeds by affinities. But emotional love is often the mutual attraction of disaffinities and biological incongruities. Emotional love, when not accompanied by instinctive love (as it seldom is), rarely results in offspring; and when it does, biology is not served. Strange creatures arise from the embraces of emotional love, mermen and mermaids, Bluebeards and des belles dames sans merci. Emotional love is not only short-lived, but it evokes its slayer. Such love creates hate in its object, if hatred is not already there. The emotional lover soon becomes an object of indifference and quickly thereafter of hatred. These are the tragedies of love emotional.

Conscious love rarely obtains between humans; but it can be illustrated in the relations of man to his favourites in the animal and vegetable kingdoms. The development of the horse and the dog from their original state of nature; the cultivation of flowers and fruit—these are examples of a primitive form of conscious love, primitive because the motive is still egoistic and utilitarian. In short, Man has a personal use for the domesticated horse and the cultivated fruit; and his labour upon them cannot be said to be for love alone. The conscious love motive, in its developed state, is the wish that the object should arrive at its own native perfection, regardless of the consequences to the lover. 'So she become perfectly herself, what matter I?' says the conscious lover. 'I will go to hell if only she may go to heaven'. And the paradox of the attitude is that such love always evokes a similar attitude in itsobject. Conscious love begets conscious love. It is rare among humans because, in the first place, the vast majority are children who look to be loved but not to love; secondly, because perfection is seldom conceived as the proper end of human love—though it alone distinguishes adult human from infantile and animal love; thirdly,because humans do not know, even if they wish, what is good for those they love; and fourthly, because it never occurs by chance, but must be the subject of resolve, effort, self-conscious choice.
C's definition of LOVE is rather too broader - Creation through knowledge. Each word has a long meaning.
I'm saying that concentrating on sex and food is good way to chain spirit to matter.
who is asking to concentrate on those parts? In fact, the opposite part is emphasized while reading the story and asked to train the machine to control it. can you read with detached and see bigger picture of the story?
Once that you have sex in mind,soul (counsciousness unit) don't want to think about spiritual,or STO ideas.
How do we know the soul doesn't want sex? If so, why did it chose to born in this commercialized sexual world? I guess you mean to say reading is 'focusing on it', impulses come means 'you have to act out', so don't expose it. Is that it? But, are we in control of exposure? But we can train to control our reaction.
Souls are not born from sex. Bodies are. Many are confused with this.
so What?
We live in a material world,and we must eat to stay in material world.It is just that simple.
when did anything in this world be so simple? If so, where is 'experience' for the soul for deciding to come here?
But just only for few decades,
How do we know everything will change in few decades?
but many are forgetting,or don't want to be reminded that life is transient. And who says that hunger of the soul wont stay once the body expire? So who cares about spirit,who cares about bloodlines,of STO,just let me to consume,and be consumed as well.
This is confusing text, but I get the point. It is sad to see many people lost in materialism, but it has nothing to do with repressing sex.
 

Bluegazer

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Regarding the sinfulness of sex, the day after Laura started this thread

Neil, your internal dialogue is incredibly similar to my own

Same here. Maybe it differs in nuance. This whole thread has finally given me the answer to resolve my own struggle... some details are very personal, but I find now the reason for some urgencies and desires. It is simply the hand of destiny telling me that I must experience certain situations in order to learn.

There are so many accumulated frustrations and mistakes I made that I had begun to forget what it is like to be in love and that it is not bad to want company, and as long as that is swept under the rug it builds up and explodes. I don't want to generalize here. It depends on each individual and their lessons, and i just talking from my experiences...
 

Tauriel

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I finished 'The Madness of Ian Mackenzie' and there were 2 scenes where tears flowed.
When Ian sat at the bedside of his wife for days in a row and when the older brother apologised to him. There was so much integrity and somehow this made me feeling sad. The feeling sat in my throat.
At the end it becomes clear that the main characters all acted with good intentions but while life was playing along with them these became all too well hidden and distorted. I suppose no OP's amongst the main personage.

The feeling of arousal changed by itself and decreased while reading. It was strongest with the first sexual scene and after that I've probably been more ready to catch the energy and move it upwards. Then I just observed.

I hope the 2nd part will arrive tomorrow- obviously I'm a bit hooked and must watch out for signs of addiction. :cool2:
 

Renaissance

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I created the sheet with author, book series, book name what version (audio, ebook etc.) of the book available in HooplaDigital, Overdrive with hyperlinks.

For some reason I can only see Anna Campbell's books - maybe a filter is locked or am I missing something?
 

Approaching Infinity

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I finished 'The Madness of Ian Mackenzie' and there were 2 scenes where tears flowed.
...
The feeling of arousal changed by itself and decreased while reading. It was strongest with the first sexual scene and after that I've probably been more ready to catch the energy and move it upwards. Then I just observed.

I started Scarlett Scott's Sins and Scoundrels series, and I can report similar observations so far. Let's just say there's a lot of tension in the first 60% of the first book. There is an initial raw sexual attraction between the characters, who think they don't like each other, for good reasons - each is wearing a mask of sorts, but for different reasons, and so each has a surface-level reason to doubt the other. About half way through the book, one of the characters speaks honestly for the first time, caught in a vulnerable state and revealing previously hidden secrets. That simple moment of honesty was very moving to me, and melts away some of the resistances of the other character. Because deep down they actually already know the truth and always have, but their own narratives and external-world contingencies present them with various 'reasons' to doubt what they know on an instinctive level. I know there is more tension and conflict to come, but I'm praying for a happy ending! ;-D
 

seek10

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For some reason I can only see Anna Campbell's books - maybe a filter is locked or am I missing something?
Yes, it is filtered as I was trying to check some things. If you see 'filled funnel' on the first row columns, it is filtered. you can un-filter it ( right-click on the cell and 'select all' and click 'Ok') without impacting anybody else using it. Now I removed all the fitlers.
1597624834646.png
 

gottathink

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My thoughts on this thread is that we/people in particular young people have been bombarded for years with a twisted hyper sexualisation of existance that promotes anybody to do anything with whoever they please and that this is normal.
A good romance taps back into the male female dynamic and how it interacts with love.
My thought was this is what people can read to deprogramme themselves from the sickness the PTB have imparted on society.
 

genero81

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I finished 'The First Snowdrop' I was right, Viscount Merrick falls in love with Anne. Anyone could have guessed that but Balogh is an excellent story teller. I was moved to tears several times.

I like the way Adaryn uses the term longing. There's something there that you can't help but want and it's much greater than just the sex.

Because of the circumstances under which Alexander (Viscount Merrick) and Anne get married and the devastating blow to Anne that she gets the morning after consummation, they have trouble understanding the others intentions and feelings so they keep separating even after Alexander falls for her, due to misunderstandings. But she has a child and he comes to her just as she's giving birth. And he hangs around for a few weeks until the christening of the baby which is delayed because there's too much snow to travel and they're waiting for family to arrive. Alexander has realized how terribly he has treated her and has decided he is a selfish individual. So he's resigned to not be selfish and leave her because he thinks that's what she wants, even though he very much wants to stay. So it's the day he's supposed to leave and he's dallied because he doesn't want to leave. He's outside and he see's something in the snow. It's a flower called a Snowdrop. The first flower to peek up from the snow. And obviously symbolic, as right when he's about to leave her again, maybe for good, she breaks down and pleads with him to stay. So finally they're able to get their true feelings and wishes out on the table and their true love for each other blossoms. And they (presumably) live happily ever after.

So now I've made a start on 'Dancing with Clara.'

Added: Forgot to mention I've read the first two chapters of 'Dancing' and it's quite an interesting set up. I look forward to reading more but my eyes have literally gone blurry from reading today so need to take a break for now.
 
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gnosisxsophia

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Or e-book if you prefer.


Thank you hlat,

@luc may appreciate the irony of having long ago picked up on his enthusiasm for the Hyperion Trilogy;




On taking a break from Chittick's "Self-Disclosure of God", I'd only made it to the second chapter, 'The War Lovers', of the first instalment when this thread began;


"He could never adequately share the sense of the next few minutes with anyone else. He would never try...They made love in a sudden shaft of late October light...Her green eyes stared down...widening slightly when he began moving quickly, closing at the same second he closed his...still joined by touch and heartbeat and the fading thrill of passion, allowing consciousness to slide back to separate flesh while the world flowed in through forgotten senses..."


Certainly not what I was expecting at the time, more so once it became apparent that the object of the male protagonists passion also wasn't at all what 'she' seemed - in a multi-dimensional kind of way...which then got me thinking about passion and love in the 'dream' world and the curiosity that the sensate 'experience' can be of such far superior quality when physicality is absent - a little like feeling a 'consciousness' actually?


...the theme of finding something higher and deeper than pure sexual intercourse...


Making me wonder too if AI and Laura were on the same page?


Basically, it is spiritual alchemy - via romance novels.


And with only having managed to extinguish (or maybe just misplace) a libido that would have fuelled a small sun a couple of years ago, I must say I winced on looking at the cover of one of the books in question;


1597628847047.png


Not so much due to the overall cheesiness but that I was immediately reminded of a dream 'girl', literally, as in a character that frequents my dreams.


If you lose your sex apatite or interested in the opposite sex you can loose also the possibility to learn a lesson. The key is a balance between the spirit and the body.


Which brought with it an epiphany of sorts in line with much of what I've interpreted of Chittick;


A: ...the "divine stuff"... The sex center is directly connected with that heavy sleeping matter that just "loves to be loved" and creative.

A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God"...


Funnily enough hammered home by Neil;


Where is your faith? Is that what you're going to tell your polar opposite while you wave them away into the darkness, condemning yourself in the process?"
"I don't have faith...in that. This conversation is over."
"Soon you may not have a choice."


Finally having realised that although at peace with the cessation of engaging in the physical act (blissful as it may be, still a pale reflection of the meeting of 'minds'), I've belatedly recognised that my creativity and ability to 'enjoy' anything - has also disappeared in equal measure! Which up until this moment has just been taken as more disappointment / suffering to add to the list and simply further impetus to mentally retreat from trying to engage with waking 'life'.

And then it hit me that as opposed to being satisfied 'coupling' with the other elsewhere - maybe that's what Laura is talking about in High Strangeness and elsewhere with the importance of 'couples' and the new world. It's not enough to simply work to find and love/be loved by 'them' internally or in the ether or wherever...but that a mechanism actually exists, with work, to 'manifest' each other here in 3D?

Now that's arousing...:love:

So it looks like it won't just be Neil working on developing some 'Faith' in the future - plus I figure how bad could it be visualising my dream girl BEFORE the dream maker has 'her' way for the rest of the evening... :-[

'Sons of Sin' it is.
 
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