Reinventing the fastest forgotten archery

H-KQGE

Dagobah Resident
Archer Lars Andersen can shoot 10 arrows in less than 5 seconds, without sacrificing power or accuracy. Andersen learned his technique by studying ancient archery practices...the key is holding the extra arrows in the hand and instinctive shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

If the footage hasn't been doctored, then it validates the tales of ancient battles where archers would perform these types of incredible feats. Especially where "arrow rain"(ing) was concerned.
 
this is truly impressive, I dont think its fake- I believe instinctive shooting is possible once the bow becomes your extended extremity
 
That was very impressive, skills like this could be very usefull in the cold future. Like to face 10 hungry wolfs.
 
H-kgge,

Wow, that is incredible but seeing is sometimes believing. For those who love archery this is an amazing treat. I still have a couple of re-curves but don't shoot much anymore. Instinct shooting does work. I did try it as a kid with my BB gun hitting walnuts in the air after seeing a demo on black and white TV years and years and years ago...probably just luck. Yes, maybe in the future the older skills might still come in handy as was pointed out in the BBC Survivors series.

Thanks,

goyacobol :thup:
 
Z said:
this is truly impressive, I dont think its fake- I believe instinctive shooting is possible once the bow becomes your extended extremity

Hello Z. No I didn't think it was fake, but one of the comments said something about one part where his hands & the arrows were obscured - which casts doubt on the ease/difficulty in holding multiple arrows ready for the drawback.

Kaigen said:
That was very impressive, skills like this could be very usefull in the cold future. Like to face 10 hungry wolfs.


Yep. I thought the same, as did one or two YouTubers. I was pleasantly surprised to see just how many folks we're into archery & actually active (as well as knowledgeable) too.

goyacobol said:
H-kgge,

Wow, that is incredible but seeing is sometimes believing. For those who love archery this is an amazing treat. I still have a couple of re-curves but don't shoot much anymore. Instinct shooting does work. I did try it as a kid with my BB gun hitting walnuts in the air after seeing a demo on black and white TV years and years and years ago...probably just luck. Yes, maybe in the future the older skills might still come in handy as was pointed out in the BBC Survivors series.

Thanks,

goyacobol :thup:

I don't know what that is. Are you talking about a reflex bow? I got hooked on archery around age 11 (although I've never been an archer or had lessons) when I found a small size comic entitled "Legend of The Longbow."

It was set during WWII & centred around the Anglo-French resistance movement. One guy who I'm assuming lost everything (this is over twenty years that I'm trying to remember) became the leader, of sorts. Hiding in the woods & silent suprise attacks on Nazi patrols with just bows & arrows & freaking them out was quite thrilling at that age. The Nazis suspected that the "leader" was an Englishman & stopping him would halt the uprising, they even showed how the longbows were constructed; that & the WWII setting (I lap up anything WWII related & in general, English/British history going back 1000 years. Some key books at a young age must've given me a bias I suppose) really captured my imagination.

Ah, great memories! :D
 
A recurve bow is a very popular style of bow, similar to a long bow. It's shorter than a long bow and the limbs curve forward when it's not strung up. When it is strung up, the curve in the limbs straighten out some, but the curves give it more power than a traditional long bow. Most of the archery events in the Olympics use recurves (although, they put all kinds of weight stabilzers, sights and such on those bows, so they don't quite look like a basic recurve).
 
Thanks for sharing H-kqge!

Even with my little experience, I'd also agree that instinctive archery works. It worked better for me even during my first archery lesson. When I wasn't thinking, rather tried to 'feel' the bow, arrow and the target, I hit the target right in the center (because the first instructor I listened to, said there are no rules in aiming, whatever works for you, you gotta figure it out for yourself) Later, another instructor started explaining how to aim, I got too wrapped up in thinking about how to aim and I barely hit the target. Though this might have been due to other issues (not enough experience, bow height not being ideal, etc) but still, it was an interesting realization fwiw.

Don't know much about different types of bows yet but when I go back, I'm gonna figure out what style of shooting would work best for me (they told me there's two basic styles of archery, Olympic style shooting and barebow), then I'm gonna get my measurements and my own bow and a lot of arrows. And keep going back to practice of course.

I'm also definitely gonna look into this guy and where he got the knowledge to shoot like he does today. He's amazing!

Again, thanks for sharing!

OneLittleBird said:
A recurve bow is a very popular style of bow, similar to a long bow. It's shorter than a long bow and the limbs curve forward when it's not strung up. When it is strung up, the curve in the limbs straighten out some, but the curves give it more power than a traditional long bow. Most of the archery events in the Olympics use recurves (although, they put all kinds of weight stabilzers, sights and such on those bows, so they don't quite look like a basic recurve).

Not only that, some of those Olympic style bows don't even look like bows anymore, more like modern gadgets. Like this one

video said:
An ancient master archer should be able to shoot in any position with both hands
This is also interesting. I wonder if this possible to achieve for someone whose one eye clearly sees better than the other.
 
Nuke said:
Thanks for sharing H-kqge!

Even with my little experience, I'd also agree that instinctive archery works. It worked better for me even during my first archery lesson. When I wasn't thinking, rather tried to 'feel' the bow, arrow and the target, I hit the target right in the center (because the first instructor I listened to, said there are no rules in aiming, whatever works for you, you gotta figure it out for yourself) Later, another instructor started explaining how to aim, I got too wrapped up in thinking about how to aim and I barely hit the target. Though this might have been due to other issues (not enough experience, bow height not being ideal, etc) but still, it was an interesting realization fwiw.

Don't know much about different types of bows yet but when I go back, I'm gonna figure out what style of shooting would work best for me (they told me there's two basic styles of archery, Olympic style shooting and barebow), then I'm gonna get my measurements and my own bow and a lot of arrows. And keep going back to practice of course.

I'm also definitely gonna look into this guy and where he got the knowledge to shoot like he does today. He's amazing!

Again, thanks for sharing!

OneLittleBird said:
A recurve bow is a very popular style of bow, similar to a long bow. It's shorter than a long bow and the limbs curve forward when it's not strung up. When it is strung up, the curve in the limbs straighten out some, but the curves give it more power than a traditional long bow. Most of the archery events in the Olympics use recurves (although, they put all kinds of weight stabilzers, sights and such on those bows, so they don't quite look like a basic recurve).

Not only that, some of those Olympic style bows don't even look like bows anymore, more like modern gadgets. Like this one

video said:
An ancient master archer should be able to shoot in any position with both hands
This is also interesting. I wonder if this possible to achieve for someone whose one eye clearly sees better than the other.

There's plenty of people who have said basically the same thing, "feeling the bow & not thinking", I suspect that very relaxed breathwork before & during the aiming phase should yield positive results - consistently. Plenty have also mentioned at least one instructor that bombarded them with information, their posture, their head motion, tension of the bow & on & on.

Actually I've just realized that I saw an archery documentary maybe 18 months ago that was really good (no clue as to the name unfortunately) on telly. They covered just about all there is to cover on the topic of archery (the bow types, so I'm assuming they covered the re-curve or called it something else) all within an historical context of weapons & projectiles. (I swear they were British guys with the similar goals to Lars Anderson but they built huts wore clothes from centuries back & more)

Yup. Modern ones are a monstrosity as far as I'm concerned, that's part of the reason I couldn't watch archery in any Olympics, it's techno-archery. "Interesting" is an understatement to me, an ambidextrous archer?! Talk about a revolution of thought! ;)
 
H-kgge,


OneLittleBird said:
A recurve bow is a very popular style of bow, similar to a long bow. It's shorter than a long bow and the limbs curve forward when it's not strung up. When it is strung up, the curve in the limbs straighten out some, but the curves give it more power than a traditional long bow. Most of the archery events in the Olympics use recurves (although, they put all kinds of weight stabilzers, sights and such on those bows, so they don't quite look like a basic recurve).

I thought OneLitteBird's description was a very good one.

The recurve bows were popular before the new "gadget" compound bows as Nuke mentioned.

You can still even buy them on Amazon:
_http://www.amazon.com/Martin-Archery-136-Recurve-Bow/dp/B00213UEYQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1385648137&sr=1-1

You can even buy the forerunner design which was a Mongolian recurve design:

http://www.amazon.com/Mongolian-Handmade-Horsebow-Snakeskin-Recurve/dp/B00BUJDA8O/ref=sr_1_12?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1385648137&sr=1-12


H-kqge said:
I don't know what that is. Are you talking about a reflex bow? I got hooked on archery around age 11 (although I've never been an archer or had lessons) when I found a small size comic entitled "Legend of The Longbow."

It was set during WWII & centred around the Anglo-French resistance movement. One guy who I'm assuming lost everything (this is over twenty years that I'm trying to remember) became the leader, of sorts. Hiding in the woods & silent suprise attacks on Nazi patrols with just bows & arrows & freaking them out was quite thrilling at that age. The Nazis suspected that the "leader" was an Englishman & stopping him would halt the uprising, they even showed how the longbows were constructed; that & the WWII setting (I lap up anything WWII related & in general, English/British history going back 1000 years. Some key books at a young age must've given me a bias I suppose) really captured my imagination.

Ah, great memories! :D

Ah, the Longbow was very interesting to me as well. I once read a short booklet with many interesting details about the longbow such as the draw weight being well over 100 pounds. It took a sturdy man just to shoot one. The booklet claimed you could shoot an arrow completely through a 1" thick oak plank and pierce a 3" thick plank with a longbow. The story was that the Longbow helped make armor obsolete.

The story above is very interesting too.

Thanks,

goyacobol
 
This recurve bow thing was gnawing at me for a bit so I looked around for information. It seems the similarities were where I wasn't understanding. So I'll just summarize what I've found with my preference, & my bias...

If I were to start learning archery practice, I would prefer to start with the "English longbow." I am indeed biased as a brit, (British) but that's due to how I became aware of archery in general, other than Errol Flynn "Robin Hood" movies. :P

Anyway, the height of a longbow which is tailored to the user, allows for a long draw & it is only slightly recurved. This is something which I was never aware of & to non-enthusiasts or "look-on" novices, (like me) this won't be known unless informed by those who are "seasoned" & the contexts are explained, mainly where the "materials" are concerned. (differences in wood, grow rings, bow types etc) The "D" shape of the LB being its most recognizable feature - to "outsiders" that is. (the vertical part of the "D" shape is the string)
Yew (European/English) would be my choice of wood for amongst other reasons, the compression & stretching resistance for strength & efficiency. The historical value is not lost on me either, the religious beliefs associated with it & the Paleolithic to stone-age (& beyond) uses are important to consider. This was alluded to in Kaigen's post about an ice-age. OSIT.

I think it's a shame that many archers today aren't encouraged to practice with LB' s 1st & then move to contemporary bows that are "composites". Which brings me to the recurve bow.

The recurve bow has its tips curving away from the archer when the bow is strung, storing more energy thus, greater acceleration for the arrow when released. Which is all-good but what of the weight of the arrow? (& its head) & what is the intent behind it? But regardless, the RB allows for a shorter bow which is better in modern times as it was for ancients such as the Chinese, northern Europeans, & others. If in densely populated terrain (tight bushes, trees) is what one has to work with, then a LB is impractical. (The length of string as well as the bow itself) recurve bows are also "noisy".

Modern recurves (saying "recurve" today to those in the know is taken as modern recurve) are composite materials (like those in the Olympics) that can consist of various materials such as aluminium, carbon fibre, fibreglass, plastics & more. Stability & accuracy stems from the consistency of the manufacturing process of modern recurves, which seems to make plenty of archers (not just beginners) believe they have a great talent which may not necessarily be true. There's plenty more gadgets attached to these but I'll leave those.

The reflex bow. With its arms curved away from the user, the whole bow when unstrung resembles a "C"
allowing easy storage & movement/portability. Because of the curve(s), the materials of the bow have a greater stress-load, (which means the craftsmanship must be excellent or everything will collapse) which gives a smaller RB to have a long draw (pull-back if you will) & similar kinetic energy of a larger (not much but significant) recurve bow, or even a longbow. (again, not much)

Here's an interesting tidbit from wiki on the reflex bow:
Wikipedia said:
Bows of traditional materials with significant reflex are almost all composite bows, made of the classic three layers of horn, wood, and sinew; they are a variant of the recurve form normally used for such bows. Highly reflexed composite bows are still used in Korea and were common in Turkish and Indian traditional archery.

There is an interesting section in Homer's Odyssey when the suitors attempt to string Odysseus' bow and are unable to do so, whereas Odysseus is able to string it without standing up. A reflex bow is almost impossible to string unless one knows the technique and is easiest to string from a sitting position. This passage has been suggested as evidence that reflex bows were just beginning to spread into the Aegean area at the time of writing.

I'm no history buff so I can't say about that last sentence, but I remember that part in the tale of Odysseus quite well. There are television adaptations of it & remakes too. There's more on this stuff, but for me as I was saying at the start of the post, I would go "old skool" then with the new stuff & the variants, each time learning the whats, the why's & the where's of them to maximize my potential.

Out of all the videos on YouTube on archery, there seem to be only a few that have their head "screwed on" properly (one vid showed how to make a longbow, which was cool until some "death-metal"/rock "music" kicked in half-way through & gave me a fright!) But for what it's worth, this guy provides some good points.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ6nItPRjK8
 
H-kqge said:
Anyway, the height of a longbow which is tailored to the user, allows for a long draw & it is only slightly recurved. This is something which I was never aware of & to non-enthusiasts or "look-on" novices, (like me) this won't be known unless informed by those who are "seasoned" & the contexts are explained, mainly where the "materials" are concerned. (differences in wood, grow rings, bow types etc) The "D" shape of the LB being its most recognizable feature - to "outsiders" that is. (the vertical part of the "D" shape is the string)
Yew (European/English) would be my choice of wood for amongst other reasons, the compression & stretching resistance for strength & efficiency. The historical value is not lost on me either, the religious beliefs associated with it & the Paleolithic to stone-age (& beyond) uses are important to consider. This was alluded to in Kaigen's post about an ice-age. OSIT.

Regarding the type of wood, this guy, Billy Berger - who made his own longbow in a series of 4 videos - mentions hickory, black locust, osage orange, white ash, hackberry, mulberry, oak, maple, vine maple, pacific yew, juniper, etc (he's in Iowa though)

H-kqge said:
There's plenty of people who have said basically the same thing, "feeling the bow & not thinking", I suspect that very relaxed breathwork before & during the aiming phase should yield positive results - consistently. Plenty have also mentioned at least one instructor that bombarded them with information, their posture, their head motion, tension of the bow & on & on.

"Interesting" is an understatement to me, an ambidextrous archer?! Talk about a revolution of thought! ;)
I do agree with you on relaxed breathing, deep breathing (pipe breathing perhaps? :) ) though Olympic Silver Medalist, Jake Kaminski says the order is 'pull back, relax, aim and let go'

On second thought, a deep breath might just be enough to relax as there's not much time and also, by relaxing we can reduce the tension in most of our body but not in the drawing arm/shoulder.

Here's a few links to differences between different traditional bows that I found interesting. Trying to find out what bow would be the most ideal for hunting.
Traditional Hungarian bows (recurves) with pictures, the text is in Hungarian though:
_http://molnarij.hu/magyar-ijak

Tatar traditional bows (also recurves):
_http://molnarij.hu/tatar-ij-hagyomanyos-tatar-ijak

Turkish traditional bows (not recurves, if I'm not mistaken, these are reflex bows)
_http://molnarij.hu/torok-ij-hagyomanyos-torok-ijak

Hungarians were famous - especially in 9th century when they ransacked Mideastern Europe - for shooting bows very fast on horseback (in any direction, even backwards), so I'm a little biased towards recurves...

I found a nice summary of the pros and cons about longbow vs. recurve on this website: _http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdoors/Subject/SubjectRead.aspx?sid=11&aid=175265&type=T
 
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