Reiner Fullmich interview with Psychology Prof. Mattias Desmet Mass/Crowd formation in the time of COVID

Joan

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FOTCM Member
I thought about posting this in the Coronovirus thread, but it is so fast moving at this time it would get lost in the thread, OSIT. So I decided to post in this thread because I think the information is important in trying to make sense of all the madness as it continues to unfold. And also at some point it may transition into another more dire set of circumstances, that may evolve/cascade into something even more impactful for society, that will again unhinge the psychology of the masses even further. Being aware of this information, and the ability members to pass this information on, may help and create some sense of sanity and understanding for those that are open to receiving this information.

Prof Mattias Desmet is a faculty member at the University of Ghent in Belgium, his area of expertise is in psychology and statistics. In trying to understand the coronavirus phenomena he decided to study what he calls the Mass or to use Gustave Le Bonns term The Crowd, he references his work several times in the video.

Some members may have already watched this video, I don't know, I don't recall any mention. here is a link to the Bitchute video it contains audio translations in English and German of the dialogue. For those so inclined IMO it would be a good video to download and archive to a library.


The Prof. speaks in English, with Reiner Fullmuch translating the dialogue into German. This is the opening dialogue after the introduction.

How Mass Social Phenomena emerges to create a Totalitarian Society - He gives examples of how this occurs.

Lot's of socially isolated people and lack of social bonds/bonding. If one thinks about the disparate social groups that have emerged. Let's say in the past 20 years or so.

A lack of sense of life (the increasing materialism, mechanization, eugenics, the trans humanist agenda. trans gender to name a few, my words)

What he calls a lot of free floating anxiety. (think priming due to 9/11, the 2008 financial collapse, the loss of jobs and income, off the top of my head, also the terrorist attacks, mass mowing down of people on sidewalks) He discusses this effect in more detail later.

Psychological discontent that is not connected to any specific cause, then this discontent enters into the mind of the mass.


So he reviews if you have these 4 things
Lack of social bond
Lack of what he calls sense making - I guess by that he means common sense, the ability to discern facts from reality presented)
Free floating anxiety
Psychological discontent

Then society is highly at risk for mass phenomena, these 4 phenomena were present in the masses shortly before covid. There was an epidemic of burnout. where 40% of people experienced their jobs as completely senseless. he gives an example of this in a book called Bullshit Jobs by anthropologist David Graeber (book available on Amazon, haven't read it) and also this essay/rant he penned, which gave rise to the book.

STRIKE! Magazine – On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs: A Work Rant On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs: A Work Rant
Just a snip

The answer clearly isn't economic: it's moral and political. The ruling class has figured out that a happy and productive population with free time on their hands is a mortal danger (think of what started to happen when this even began to be approximated in the '60s). And, on the other hand, the feeling that work is a moral value in itself, and that anyone not willing to submit themselves to some kind of intense work discipline for most of their waking hours deserves nothing, is extraordinarily convenient for them.

Back to the dialogue

Because of epidemic burnout, people working in bullshit jobs, the use in Belgium of psycho pharmaceuticals was high and demonstrated how much discontent was present in society. In Belgium a population of 11 Million people, over 300 million doses
of antidepressants were prescribed.

He goes on to discuss what he terms Free Floating Anxiety. It is the most psychological phenomena a person can experience leads to panic attacks and all sorts of painful experiences (this made me think about triggering suppressed traumatic emotional and physical past experiences, causing a psychotic break with reality)

People look for explanations for their free floating anxiety and now if this free floating anxiety is highly present in society the Media provides a narrative which indicates an object for their anxiety, and at the same time describes a strategy to deal with this object, as a result of this free floating anxiety...My words Jabs

Then all the anxiety, connects to this anxiety and people are willing to follow this strategy to deal with this anxiety, no matter the cost is (lost of jobs, jab injury, loss of lives).

This is what happens at the beginning of Mass/crowd formation.


In a second step, people start a collective an heroic battle with the object of this anxiety (remember the health care gorcery store heroes, people clapping outside their home in support, prompted by social media). Then with this a new kind of social bond emerges and a new kind of making sense of the anxiety. Suddenly the objec of life is to battle this anxiety and an establishment of a new connection with society, and also a new connection with other people. It does not matter anymore if the narrative is correct or wrong, even blatantly wrong. I matters that this mental intoxication, that is why the mass/crowd goes along with the narrative, even is they were aware, thinking for one second that the narrative is wrong (reminds me of the Asch conformity experiments).

This is the central mechanism of Mass formation that makes it so difficult to DESTROY IT. Because for the vast majority of people it does not matter. Many of us try constantly to to show the narrative is wrong, but for the Mass that is not what it is about, it is the fact they do not want to go back to this state of free floating anxiety (and the trauma that was induced, my words).

He then goes on to discuss strategies, I think these strategies would only apply to a collective, a thinking mass of people that can convey to those that are open, a rational, objective, intelligent, truthful and knowledgeable explanation of how and why we are living in this time of mass hysteria and psychosis.

The first thing is to make society understand how this Mass psychology occurs and how this can be counteracted (my words, added for clarity with some help of the Prof, understanding his dialogue, he is not an English speaker).

COVID is a psychological crisis and not a biological crisis.

I could post much more of this dialogue. but I think a person, really needs to listen to the whole video interview and dialogue and think, after listening to the first 10-12 mins of the video one can get a snap shot of the dilemma we are facing.

Not sure if this could also be posted in the work, it would be a valuable resource IMO. He gives references to other authors of books that are useful resources. If so please moderators move this post to a more appropriate area.

The thing about the number 40% comes to mind, I have a skimming interest, it made me think about Drabrowski theory of Social disintegration, and also the effect of mass hypnosis, how may are immune to this process. There are numbers thrown around of 80% og the population that have received the jab. Could a more realistic figure be 60/40%

Anyway, those are my thoughts. The video is a trove of information IMO
 

psychegram

The Living Force
Thanks for posting this @Joan . It was every bit as interesting as you described.

To pull out one part I found particularly resonated with my own experience, there was some discussion of why on the one hand, otherwise highly intelligent people - in the case of this interview, Prof. Desmet's colleagues in psychology, who if anyone should know better - are completely lacking in any resistance to the hypnosis, and indeed blind to the fact that they've been hypnotized, while on the other people from more intellectually mundane occupational backgrounds (not to say they aren't smart, of course, just that their jobs don't have high IQ as a requirement) are able to see through the manipulation much more easily.

Two things were highlighted as part of the answer to this question:

1) psychology: those resistant to the hypnosis tend to be more comfortable with confrontation and more capable of thinking for themselves; in other words, low in agreeableness. Furthermore, they tend to form stable identities around hewing close to what they, personally, feel to be true and reasonable, rather than identifying with membership in the group and evaluating truth claims on the basis of the dominant (or apparently dominant) group view.

2) metaphysics: the great metaphysical battle of the last few centuries has been materialism vs. everything else, i.e. the view that life and consciousness are fundamentally dead mechanism vs. the view that there's more to it than that. Anyone accepting crude materialism is inevitably lead to the nihilistic view that life is without meaning, which opens directly into all 4 of the preconditions for totalitarian psychosis that you summarized:

Lot's of socially isolated people and lack of social bonds/bonding. If one thinks about the disparate social groups that have emerged. Let's say in the past 20 years or so.

A lack of sense of life (the increasing materialism, mechanization, eugenics, the trans humanist agenda. trans gender to name a few, my words)

What he calls a lot of free floating anxiety. (think priming due to 9/11, the 2008 financial collapse, the loss of jobs and income, off the top of my head, also the terrorist attacks, mass mowing down of people on sidewalks) He discusses this effect in more detail later.

Psychological discontent that is not connected to any specific cause, then this discontent enters into the mind of the mass.

in particular the second item.

Both of these are exactly my own experience. Covidians have a tendency to be both atheists and, for lack of a better term, beta males. This even comes through in physiology: I've noticed that those who voluntarily mask up tend to have weak-looking musculature and poor posture, both of which tend to correlate to a lack of willingness to challenge group consensus since they subconsciously fear that, were the group to turn on them or abandon them, they would lack the physical resources to defend themselves. It's a very primal thing, and likely explains why masculinity has come under such savage cultural, spiritual, and biochemical attack over the last generation or so.

Another factor, related to the above, is pain tolerance. Changing one's mind about a deeply held belief, particularly admitting that one was snookered after investing a great deal of time and energy in servicing that belief, is experienced by the brain as physically painful. Hence the reluctance to do so, and the eagerness of the brain to explain away impressions that challenge beliefs. It follows that there should be a correlation between pain tolerance and the ability to re-evaluate truth propositions in which one is emotionally invested. Since pain tolerance is not entirely innate but can be adjusted up or down by experience, it further follows that an individual inured to physical hardship will be better at re-evaluation than an individual accustomed to comfort. Again, it's my experience that the weak, flabby males that have been cultivated throughout so much of the population are precisely those who are the least capable of resisting the present hypnosis.

All of this ties back to why our academic class is so utterly captured by the Narrative. First, they are not only selected for intelligence, but also for neuroticism and agreeableness - the ones who are too outspoken tend to get weeded out. Second, they're physically an unimpressive lot: you don't find many of them doing deadlifts or training mixed martial arts. Third, once they're professors, they're accustomed to a very easy life that involves exactly zero physical privation. Result: weak emotional development that leads them to use their intellects, not to determine truth (which is potentially dangerous), but to rapidly determine a) what the group thinks, and b) come up with ingenious ways of justifying the group's belief.

Final point, and somewhat related to the above. It seems to me that the current totalitarian psychosis is distinguished from past events in e.g. the USSR in that it is only secondarily concerned with the hypnosis of the masses, but primarily concerned with the hypnosis of the elites. Think about it: the 'essential workers' have spent this 'pandemic' suffering in masks as they scurried about stocking shelves at big box stores, driving Amazon delivery trucks, and ferrying take-out to people's front doors. It's the elite class - the academics, the managerial class, and so on - who spent a year and a half locked in their houses, immersed in electronic skinner boxes as they've been force-fed fear porn, and it is precisely this group which is most thoroughly hypnotized. You see this quite clearly in vaccine uptake, which is very high at the top and much lower at the bottom of the socioeconomic pyramid. You also see this when you just talk to people: many of the working class types I chat with at least sort of get that something about this doesn't add up, while the minion class office-worker types very rarely do.

I suspect that's entirely intentional. The idea being to capture society by capturing the minds of the people who run society, gambling that the lower orders will just go along with it. Also, referring again to the totalitarian preconditions, one might make a good argument that they apply to a very strong degree to middle class knowledge worker types, who tend to be socially isolated in the suburbs; atheists; beset by constant job stress; and are gobbling anti-depressants at a fantastic rate.

I also suspect that this is a reflection of what's already happened at the very top of the global socioeconomic pyramid: a deranged cult has possessed the minds of the world's wealthiest and most powerful people. Of course that might have happened quite some time ago and is only now becoming really visible....
 

Joan

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
All of this ties back to why our academic class is so utterly captured by the Narrative. First, they are not only selected for intelligence, but also for neuroticism and agreeableness - the ones who are too outspoken tend to get weeded out. Second, they're physically an unimpressive lot: you don't find many of them doing deadlifts or training mixed martial arts. Third, once they're professors, they're accustomed to a very easy life that involves exactly zero physical privation. Result: weak emotional development that leads them to use their intellects, not to determine truth (which is potentially dangerous), but to rapidly determine a) what the group thinks, and b) come up with ingenious ways of justifying the group's belief.

Final point, and somewhat related to the above. It seems to me that the current totalitarian psychosis is distinguished from past events in e.g. the USSR in that it is only secondarily concerned with the hypnosis of the masses, but primarily concerned with the hypnosis of the elites. Think about it: the 'essential workers' have spent this 'pandemic' suffering in masks as they scurried about stocking shelves at big box stores, driving Amazon delivery trucks, and ferrying take-out to people's front doors. It's the elite class - the academics, the managerial class, and so on - who spent a year and a half locked in their houses, immersed in electronic skinner boxes as they've been force-fed fear porn, and it is precisely this group which is most thoroughly hypnotized. You see this quite clearly in vaccine uptake, which is very high at the top and much lower at the bottom of the socioeconomic pyramid. You also see this when you just talk to people: many of the working class types I chat with at least sort of get that something about this doesn't add up, while the minion class office-worker types very rarely do.

I suspect that's entirely intentional. The idea being to capture society by capturing the minds of the people who run society, gambling that the lower orders will just go along with it. Also, referring again to the totalitarian preconditions, one might make a good argument that they apply to a very strong degree to middle class knowledge worker types, who tend to be socially isolated in the suburbs; atheists; beset by constant job stress; and are gobbling anti-depressants at a fantastic rate.

I also suspect that this is a reflection of what's already happened at the very top of the global socioeconomic pyramid: a deranged cult has possessed the minds of the world's wealthiest and most powerful people. Of course that might have happened quite some time ago and is only now becoming really visible....

@psychegram reading the above paragraphs in you post reminded of the essay By David Graeber Bullshit jobs


Why did Keynes' promised utopia—still being eagerly awaited in the '60s—never materialise? The standard line today is that he didn't figure in the massive increase in consumerism. Given the choice between less hours and more toys and pleasures, we've collectively chosen the latter. This presents a nice morality tale, but even a moment's reflection shows it can't really be true. Yes, we have witnessed the creation of an endless variety of new jobs and industries since the '20s, but very few have anything to do with the production and distribution of sushi, iPhones, or fancy sneakers.

In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century's end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that countries like Great Britain or the United States would have achieved a 15-hour work week. There's every reason to believe he was right. In technological terms, we are quite capable of this. And yet it didn't happen. Instead, technology has been marshaled, if anything, to figure out ways to make us all work more. In order to achieve this, jobs have had to be created that are, effectively, pointless. Huge swathes of people, in Europe and North America in particular, spend their entire working lives performing tasks they secretly believe do not really need to be performed. The moral and spiritual damage that comes from this situation is profound. It is a scar across our collective soul. Yet virtually no one talks about it.

So what are these new jobs, precisely? A recent report comparing employment in the US between 1910 and 2000 gives us a clear picture (and I note, one pretty much exactly echoed in the UK). Over the course of the last century, the number of workers employed as domestic servants, in industry, and in the farm sector has collapsed dramatically. At the same time, ‘professional, managerial, clerical, sales, and service workers’ tripled, growing ‘from one-quarter to three-quarters of total employment.’ In other words, productive jobs have, just as predicted, been largely automated away (even if you count industrial workers globally, including the toiling masses in India and China, such workers are still not nearly so large a percentage of the world population as they used to be.)

But rather than allowing a massive reduction of working hours to free the world's population to pursue their own projects, pleasures, visions, and ideas, we have seen the ballooning of not even so much of the ‘service’ sector as of the administrative sector, up to and including the creation of whole new industries like financial services or telemarketing, or the unprecedented expansion of sectors like corporate law, academic and health administration, human resources, and public relations. And these numbers do not even reflect on all those people whose job is to provide administrative, technical, or security support for these industries, or for that matter the whole host of ancillary industries (dog-washers, all-night pizza delivery) that only exist because everyone else is spending so much of their time working in all the other ones. Bullshit Jobs

Some of my thoughts below.
I propose the reason that the academic class is so captured by the narrative, is the realization, that they are in Bullshit jobs. they have a lost sense of self, and also a spiritual dynamic. The loss of a spiritual aspect in our lives.. to give meaning to our lives. As you pointed out. Also a narrative that makes no sense. And also a most interesting study, that if I recall correctly, demonstrated the academic class Phd's etc. Are more compliant going along with the narrative. They are IMO the group that has the most to lose, by not going along with the narrative, several thousand dollars in education, loss of tenure, the possible inability to train or transition to an alternative form of employment

Those at the lower end of society (those with a high school education for example) are more resistant, they are more resilient, possibly because of the ability to see through the BS, simply because they live and work BS everyday. Listening to a managerial/leadership class, that makes decisions for them that in many instances, make no sense. So when these rules are announced, they focus their attention, listen to the message, evaluate, what's in it for me. Job wise, they are adaptable, but the consequences of a family member being injured, the medical costs involved (some don't have health benefits). Loss of the main breadwinner in the family, then non compliance with the narrative, for some is a no brainer.

Their is another fleeting thought could be something or nothing it involves what is called the "Love hormone Oxytocin"


Oxytocin (Oxt or OT) is a peptide hormone and neuropeptide normally produced in the hypothalamus and released by the posterior pituitary.[3] It plays a role in social bonding, reproduction, childbirth.

Just a very brief explanation of the effect of Oxycontin. Think stress reduction, social bonding, lowering anxiety to name a few. This is stimulated by touch.



This makes me think of the jab affecting the ovaries, and it's links to reproduction, childbirth and also sexual function loss of sexual drive due to high anxiety (in some, resulting in a drop in the birth rate). Just some issues off the top of my head.

So again we come back to lack of social bonding, social distancing for every man woman and child on the planet. This we will be the way we live our lives from now on IMO except for those that see through the BS to continue to hug, love laugh and share in a communal setting. I envision this as something akin to an underground network. Maybe I am being a bit dramatic here.

Those are my thoughts for now.
 

Michael B-C

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I watched the presentation with great interest as well Joan, so thanks for posting. In all that has been going on, the psychological / consciousness aspects are to my mind still the most grimly fascinating and yet mysterious because there is a genuine need to explain the seemingly inexplicable (e.g. how enormous sections of the human species have been simultaneously hypnotized into believing in a demonstrably and absurd false reality).

There seems to have been two distinct stages to this:
  • The initial steep plunge into a state of willing group hypnosis.
  • The maintaining and even doubling down of this state to a point of dependency by a personal commitment at some level to remain hypnotized even though something (reality or counter narrative?) is knocking on the door of their mind in an effort to wake them up.
As Prof Mattias Desmet outlines, it appears this process affects the great majority of people, and yet there remains a significant minority who whether by eventually shaking off the first stage (finally engaging their own mind and begin to see through the spell that had called them to succumb to sleep) or by never succumbing at all, seeing through the disguise from first to last, escape its seduction and get to see all the madness play out like some widescreen, technicolor freak show.

So an active and exercised free will seems imperative protection. An imperviousness to pervasive mental suggestion, contagion or coercion. And this in someway reflects their inability to be hypnotized. That's why the whole sorry episode is essentially a pandemic of embraced mental illness.

Though the whole presentation was worthwhile, I did find the four points he highlighted early on - and which both you and psychegram picked up on - really worth acknowledging and pondering further upon - because these do seem to hint at the core of the matter and relate to the 'programming is complete' that the C's warned us about:

A predominance of socially isolated people and a lack of cohesive social bonds.

A lack of sense making.

Free floating anxiety.

Generalized, pervasive psychological discontent.

It's as if these four negative columns were essentially all that was left invisibly standing pre-COVID. That the rest of the collective consciousness had been gnawed away over time, leaving behind previously hidden or dormant, entirely negative supports (paradoxically) in place of where stood previously solid walls and interiors of being and knowledge of how to be in the world, which protected - to some degree or other - the species from falling into collective madness.

We here appreciate the slow drip, drip (or rip, rip) of this erosion. Be it through chemistry, bodily function, family life, education, mechanization, secularization, economics, politics, media, fear mongering, mind control, art, etc, etc. You name it, there has been a species wide attack from every quarter with divide and conquer the over arching aim. All this has stripped people of their sense making as he puts it. Their context has gone, replaced by a vampirism that they accept as somehow normal. Progress!

That free floating anxiety is such an interesting idea. Anxiety - stress; these are words I never heard used in common parlance before say the 1990s. By 2019 they were endemic - but at the same time never truly acknowledged. The entertainment industry's never ending buoyancy and false presentations of universal 'joy' - whilst at the same time presenting a near universal narrative of narcissism, disconnection, anti-heroism and wokeness - covered up the bleakness of all this pretend existence. So much substance and alcohol abuse to cover up so much suppressed pain - and the never ending need to 'get away' on packaged holidays to the sun or the too oft repeated 'I just want to switch off' or 'chill out'. The dumbing down to continual inanity... anything but please don't make me aware just how miserable I really am. And the constant need to keep going, doing, spending, laughing, getting out of ones head...

The other hidden but equally interesting aspect underneath all this remains the unspoken, ever represented terror that we may not be alone - that we are being watched, played with, interfered with... and we have zero agency in the matter. The UFO phenomenon and its exact arrival at the time this process began to ratchet for real (post 1947) and the irreconcilable fact of its acknowledged existence in popular culture and its utter suppression (until now of course) by the public culture, has played an enormous unconscious part in making everyone essentially go mad. Something exists but it doesn't. There's something to be truly terrified of but it isn't really there. Or is it? Not. Schizophrenia en masse. That 'free floating anxiety' is the sense of the collective knowing, experiencing the fact that everything has gone hellzapoppin but no ones saying it...

COVID answered all that. Brought in a scientism of absolute belief, a series of uniformly shared cult actions and a certainty that if you obey orders you will be safe. The more materialistic and empty you are, the more you answer the call of the blind cult. Out of relief! At last!

Fascinating... we humans really are ridiculous.

This presentation by an old timer hypnotist is worth adding to the material here:

Hypnotist REVEALS Government BRAINWASHING Tactics

 

Aeneas

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Anyway, those are my thoughts. The video is a trove of information IMO
Thanks for posting it and bringing it to greater attention. Excellent elaborating points too from @psychegram and @Michael B-C . I listened to it at the time and thought Prof. Desmet would be a great guy for the Mindmatter guys to interview. He mentions Gustav le Bon and Hannah Arendt a number of times and it makes much sense what he says.
What he calls a lot of free floating anxiety. (think priming due to 9/11, the 2008 financial collapse, the loss of jobs and income, off the top of my head, also the terrorist attacks, mass mowing down of people on sidewalks) He discusses this effect in more detail later.
Another key thing for creating this free floating anxiety, not least in young people is the other pet project of WEF, namely the Global warming hysteria. There has been a massive propaganda in the MSM over the last 20 years about man made global warming causing the world to burn to a cinder any moment or the oceans to rise dramatically and flooding everybody ec.

Laura wrote in her article on Transmarginal Inhibition about what happens when people are exposed to hysteria over a period of time, which is that they will believe anything. And that seems to be what we are seeing with Newspeak in its modern incarnation with help from the Big Tech giants who are busy stuffing the reality of yesterday into the memory hole.

2) metaphysics: the great metaphysical battle of the last few centuries has been materialism vs. everything else, i.e. the view that life and consciousness are fundamentally dead mechanism vs. the view that there's more to it than that. Anyone accepting crude materialism is inevitably lead to the nihilistic view that life is without meaning, which opens directly into all 4 of the preconditions for totalitarian psychosis that you summarized:
Yes, the Darwinistic mindset has a lot to answer for, cutting off the spiritual connection and even the possibility that there is something higher to strive towards. This has forced people into materialism and an addiction to it. The exact opposite of what Paul was about.

I wondered if Prof. Desmet has read 'Political Ponerology' and if not he might be one who would appreciate it.
 

Michael B-C

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I wondered if Prof. Desmet has read 'Political Ponerology' and if not he might be one who would appreciate it.
Listening to him, I wondered the same Aeneas. For me, that was a hole by avoidance in his general thesis - for when asked directly about sociopaths he was more inclined to speak about ideological identification. That the elites are utterly convinced by their own wondrous self narrative, their god like divine right to rule and deliver their utopian paradise. I agree that its too simplistic to say for sure that people like Schwab are actually knowingly evil (though that may be true) but rather are utterly - hence dangerously - convinced by their belief systems. This is what gives them their drive and ambition to implement their vision come what may. But saying that doesn't change what we know about ponerology and psychopathy. And he appear to evade this area - as well as the dreaded conspiracy theory. Which in this case really is absurd because there is so much evidence of uniform collective action all heading towards one purpose. For example, Mike Yeadon rightly points out the way in which dozens of countries uniformly abandoned long-prepared pandemic strategies that were in many ways sensible and responsible (and well tested) replacing them near over night with identical plans every element of which demonstrably are based on pseudo-science and have demonstrably led the destruction of millions of lives. But one example that simply makes no sense without joint, secret action - the definition of conspiracy at some higher level within the power system. And that's evil.
 

KS

Jedi
Jerm Warfare did an interview with Desmet recently:

He repeats many statements, but few of them are new (or maybe I missed some because of my ADD):
  • it is possible to disconnect mass discontent from an object of discontent created by the narrative, by using something more shocking,
  • 30% of population that opposes mainstream narration and is not susceptible to hypnosis is always very heterogeneous (people with far left or far right views, feminists, materialists, agnostics, etc.), so it is hard to form an opposition to the hypnotized 30% (that is more homogeneous), and to form critical mass needed to attract rest of the population (that goes with whatever group that is perceived bigger by them),
  • opposing voices are very important (thanks SOTT team!), and needed for the state of hypnosis not to deepen,
  • even most illogical measures will deepen the hypnosis, people will form rituals (for ex. masks) that will only tighten (newly established) social bonds.

It is also good interview to hand over to the family or friends. Jeremy is such a witty guy, that the overall atmosphere is lighter and more accessible for some.
 
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