Quote of the day

OzRich

Jedi
I was discussing with friends some political issues and at some stage I read aloud SOTT's quote of the day:
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." — Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983
One person wanted to know exactly when, where and to whom these words were spoken (or written). So I've spent quite a bit of time looking for the source. I found a lot of sites quoting it, but couldn't find the source (my computer skills ain't great).
Does anyone know exactly when and where Begin said these words ?
 

nemo

Jedi
Not exactly, no.
From what I found out, it seems that the statement was allegedly made by Begin in conversation to Jimmy Carter, who quoted him.
 

PepperFritz

The Living Force
The "quote" is highly suspect, and probably completely bogus. It appears to have originated on rense.com, and then subsequently "requoted" all over the place. Along with the quote was a reference to Carter having "recalled in his memoirs" that Begin referred to the Jews as "The Master Race", but nowhere is the quote in question directly attributed to Carter's memoirs. It is also a very lengthy and detailed "quote" for someone to have "recalled". No book editor/libel lawyer would have allowed such a "quote" to appear in Carter's book without verification. If Carter were recalling a conversation (as opposed to quoting from a letter, document, or tape recording), it would appear as a paraphrased narrative, not a direct quote.

I have no doubt that Begin probably believed the sentiments in the "quote", even if it is bogus. However, I think it damages SOTT's credibility to feature such non-attributed, unverified material as "fact", simply because it was once stated on rense.com ....

If someone has actually read the featured quote in Carter's memoirs, and can tell me the page number on which it appears, I'll happily eat my words. But I can find no such verification anywhere on the net.
 

nemo

Jedi
PepperFritz said:
The "quote" is highly suspect, ...
Yep! Makes me wonder how verified a great number of similiar psychopathic quotes by Israeli leaders are (which I´ve encountered on various websites).
Unverified quotes, if used in discussions (like I´ve experienced) can be quite detrimental.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I found it here: _http://texemarrs.com/112003/jewish_master_race.htm

where it is quoted by Texe Marrs... but without any attribution. It sort of looks like he composed it as a synopsis of the other quotes he presents on this page and puts it in quotes for that reason, not that he is quoting any one person directly.
 

PepperFritz

The Living Force
Laura said:
I found it here: _http://texemarrs.com/112003/jewish_master_race.htm

where it is quoted by Texe Marrs... but without any attribution. It sort of looks like he composed it as a synopsis of the other quotes he presents on this page and puts it in quotes for that reason, not that he is quoting any one person directly.
In other words, it is NOT something that Begin actually said, nor is it something that Carter quoted him as having said. Therefore, it is a bogus "quote". Should it not, therefore, be removed from the SOTT "Quote of the Day" feature?
 

dant

The Living Force
I think that this quote needs to be verified as to it's source
if that is even possible.

I found references with this quote "everywhere" and in Rense,
Zionist/Jew "haters", "Lovers", whatever. It seems that everyone
is at least quoting a quote - and the only possible reference I got
was something like the following:

Google: "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982"

Note: President Jimmy Carter's reign: 1977-1981 so the above appears after his
presidency.

Amnon Kapeliouk said:
"Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as
different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our
race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered
as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly
kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our
feet and serve us as our slaves."
(Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in
a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament]
,
quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk,
"Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
)
So we could check the quote by Amnon in the New Statesman, but
he is claiming this quote was from Begin's speech to the Knesset, so
that is the source that should be checked out, right?

So we need to know:
- When was this quote made?
- Which Knesset session?
- Are there published Knesset records anywhere to verify this quote?

Or, someone found it already via the net - I just don't know of Knesset
sessions are available online...

[edit] I found this:
- _http://www.knesset.gov.il/history/eng/eng_hist9.htm
- _http://www.knesset.gov.il/audio/begin_6.wav (20/11/77 - WAV Audio speech)

NOTE: I CANNOT HEAR/understand this speech being hard-of-hearing and not
sure if this particular speech would include anything said at the beginning of this
thread, so let me know... but nevertheless - it is Begin in The Ninth Knesset, but
is this where he might have made the statement or was it closed-session/private
speech?
 

OzRich

Jedi
dant said:
I I found this:
- _http://www.knesset.gov.il/history/eng/eng_hist9.htm
- _http://www.knesset.gov.il/audio/begin_6.wav (20/11/77 - WAV Audio speech)

NOTE: I CANNOT HEAR/understand this speech being hard-of-hearing and not
sure if this particular speech would include anything said at the beginning of this
thread, so let me know... but nevertheless - it is Begin in The Ninth Knesset, but
is this where he might have made the statement or was it closed-session/private
speech?
I've just listened to _http://www.knesset.gov.il/audio/begin_6.wav (20/11/77 - WAV Audio speech).
It is of very poor quality and not in english.
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
It's in Hebrew. And he is talking about the peace agreement between Egypt (Sadat) and Israel. He is mainly talking about the "bravery of heart" of the Jewish nation and their wish for peace.

I'll try to look for the Hebrew origin of this quote.
 

PepperFritz

The Living Force
"Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
(Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament],
quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982)
Oh dear, what a muddle.

Amnon Kapeliouk's article "Begin and the Beasts" (New Statesman, June 25, 1982) is infamous for having misrepresented something Meachem Begin said in a speech to the Knesset, and there are legitimate sources all over the net that make reference to that incident. However, the misrepresented quote is not the one cited above ("Our race is the Master Race", etc.), but another one entirely (see below). Clearly, someone invented the "Master Race" quote and then tacked on Amnon Kapeliouk as the source, to give it credibility. However, even the REAL (and far less offensive) quote has now been proven to have been misrepresented by Kapeliouk.

The REAL story involving Kapeliouk's article is provided by a media-watch group called _http://www.camera.org/]CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America), which regularly debunks bogus news reports and misquotes:

_http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=775

...Internet hate sites, as well as Fisk, attribute the derogation of Palestnians as “two-legged beasts” to former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin. The source generally given is:

Menachem Begin, as quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts,"New Statesman, June 25, 1982

Indeed, the radical French-Israeli journalist, Amnon Kapeliouk, did attribute such a quote to Begin in his New Statesman article criticizing Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. The author posited:

For this reason the government has gone to extraordinary lengths to dehumanise the Palestinians. Begin described them in a speech in the Knesset as "beasts walking on two legs".

However, further investigation by CAMERA reveals that the actual speech upon which Kapeliouk based his quote, as well as news reports at the time demonstrate that the journalist distorted the quote, giving it a completely different tone and meaning. Begin was talking, not about "the Palestinians" but about terrorists who target children within Israel... Kapeliouk neither recanted nor apologized for his deception....


_http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=24: "Founded in 1982, the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America is a media-monitoring, research and membership organization devoted to promoting accurate and balanced coverage of Israel and the Middle East. CAMERA fosters rigorous reporting, while educating news consumers about Middle East issues and the role of the media. Because public opinion ultimately shapes public policy, distorted news coverage that misleads the public can be detrimental to sound policymaking. A non-partisan organization, CAMERA takes no position with regard to American or Israeli political issues or with regard to ultimate solutions to the Arab-Israeli conflict."
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Just to make this issue a bit clear. Even if Begin didn't say exactly what is said in this quote, there is a high possibility that this is exactly what he or other Zionist leaders meant. Make no mistake – lots of Israelis call Palestinians two legged animals, cockroaches and monsters. But it is considered an inside/secret (among Israelis only) talk. They know that the world doesn’t see such racist expressions kindly, so you will hear the other kind of talk from Israeli representatives or leaders. Also, they don’t consider those racist expressions as racist. They just don’t think about it and say that the sissy and enlightened Western world is still under an impression that Arabs understand anything beside brutal force and power.

And, PepperFritz, I don’t know if you are aware, but clearly this CAMERA site is part of the Hasbara campaign, and uses the same tactics. The following quote for example:

Begin was talking, not about "the Palestinians" but about terrorists who target children within Israel.

On June 8, 1982, Begin addressed the Knesset in response to a no-confidence motion over Israel's invasion of Lebanon. He talked about defending the children of Israel, and according to a June 9, 1982 AP report, “his voice quaver[ed] with anger and sadness.” According to the minutes of the session, Begin stated:

The children of Israel will happily go to school and joyfully return home, just like the children in Washington, in Moscow, and in Peking, in Paris and in Rome, in Oslo, in Stockholm and in Copenhagen. The fate of... Jewish children has been different from all the children of the world throughout the generations. No more. We will defend our children. If the hand of any two-footed animal is raised against them, that hand will be cut off, and our children will grow up in joy in the homes of their parents.
First of all there is a major emotional manipulation: “his voice quaver[ed] with anger and sadness.” As if such a compassionate person as Begin couldn’t call Palestinians two legged animals. Also notice CAMERA’’s claim that Begin referred only to terrorists. Well, the problem with this claim that it sounds good in the ears of the rest of the world, but the reality is quite different. Lot of Israelis see Palestinian mothers as the breeders of terrorists. And say that there is no greater honor for a Palestinian mother than to have her son becoming a martyr and blowing himself up. Therefore all of them are animals, because animals breed animals.

Of course there are other Israelis who say that Palestinians did it to themselves because they are unable to create a functional society, therefore they are somehow lower on the world society scale. Also they are brainwashed from childhood to hate Israelis, so there is no choice but to kill and contain them for the survival of Israel.

And obviously you won't hear such talk from any Israeli (and they will vigorously deny any such accusation), but I do hear it.
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
The children of Israel will happily go to school and joyfully return home, just like the children in Washington, in Moscow, and in Peking, in Paris and in Rome, in Oslo, in Stockholm and in Copenhagen. The fate of... Jewish children has been different from all the children of the world throughout the generations. No more. We will defend our children. If the hand of any two-footed animal is raised against them, that hand will be cut off, and our children will grow up in joy in the homes of their parents.
Thanks Keit.

As I read the above quote, it is far from clear to me that Begin was exclusively talking about terrorists - and not Palestinians or Arabs in general - when he said "two-footed animals". In fact, it seems that it can be read either way, which is very convenient because those who agree with him will understand what he is saying, while he can excuse himself in front of the rest of the world as having been taken out of context if anyone criticizes. It is a double message and one quite racist indeed.

Even if he had been talking exclusively about terrorists, there are questionable assumptions involved, such as: only 'they' are terrorists, 'we' are just defending ourselves, only our children suffer and not theirs, justice is on our side, etc.

Now, about CAMERA. CAMERA is one of several organizations which are part of the so-called Israel lobby. It claims to be impartial and neutral, but it is not hard at all to see where its real sympathies lie.

A couple of quotes from their website:

_http://www.camera. org/index.asp?x_context=24

"We all know that CAMERA's mission is important not only for the Jewish community, but also for the integrity and vitality of American democracy. It is not just on one occasion that I wished there were an Israeli branch of CAMERA."
– Democracy activist and Knesset member Natan Sharansky

"The answer to false speech is not censorship but more true speech. The answer to half-truth is full-truth. The only people who should and do fear CAMERA are those who should and do fear the truth. ... [T]he First Amendment was not erected to help the media but to help the people."
– Harvard law professor and civil libertarian Alan Dershowitz
"Civil libertarian" is quite misleading. I would say that Dershowitz is a psychopath. In case you aren't familiar with him, among other things he has said:

"The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit."[...]
In other words: its their fault because they didn't move out of the way!

He's also said that torture is ok in 'ticking-bomb' cases, but since we don't know which cases are ticking-bombs and which are not, well...

"I would talk about nonlethal torture, say, a sterilized needle underneath the nail, which would violate the Geneva Accords, but you know, countries all over the world violate the Geneva Accords. They do it secretly and hypothetically, the way the French did it in Algeria. If we ever came close to doing it, and we don't know whether this is such a case, I think we would want to do it with accountability and openly and not adopt the way of the hypocrite."
In other words: Everybody does it, so why not just make it official?

This is the guy who thinks that CAMERA is a great thing, and the guy that CAMERA likes to be associated with.
 

PepperFritz

The Living Force
Keit said:
Just to make this issue a bit clear. Even if Begin didn't say exactly what is said in this quote, there is a high possibility that this is exactly what he or other Zionist leaders meant....
I agree. However, for SOTT to be taken seriously, it needs to report things accurately and within context, not unquestioningly reprint unverifiable "quotes" or quotes taken out of context, simply because they happen to support SOTT's views on certain issues. That would make SOTT not much different from the deceptive and manipulative media it seeks to expose. There's plenty of accurate and truthful ammunition out there to expose the Zionist agenda without resorting to fabrication.
 

BobInBpt

A Disturbance in the Force
The quote in question is attributed to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset quoted in "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982 by Amnon Kapeliouk. Now one might think that this is just typical anti-semitic rhetoric quoted widely by hate groups until one realizes that Amnon Kapeliouk was a French Jew and would have no reason to denigrate the Israeli Prime Minister.

Franklin P Lamb,an international lawyer is a research associate at If Americans Knew. He can be reached at fpiercelamb@aol.com, writing many years later in 2009 on the death of Kapeliouk, remembers him in the following words:

"Israeli journalist Amnon Kapeliouk was my kind of Journalist and my kind of Jew.
Sadly, he died the other day and was buried near his birth place in West Jerusalem. For more than 40 years Kapeliouk reported on Palestinian and Arab affairs for half a dozen newspapers and was an old school Robert Fisk- Janet Stevens’s type journalist for whom reporting meant getting to the scene fast and carefully scribbling with pencil and note pad.
I knew Kapeliouk mainly through his writings and a dozen or so path crossings over the years following our first improbable encounter during the infamous Beirut summer 1982. Those months of US-armed Israeli carnage, which continue to shape the region, left him with an indelible scar. He once told me: “I can’t forget. It doesn't fade. I don’t think it ever will.” I understood what he meant."

I take it from this that Amnon Kapeliouk was a quality journalist and a man of integrity who reported issues impartially and accurately and didn't have an ax to grind so there would be no reason for him to purposely misquote or distort the words of the Prime Minister.

Those who say "that's not what Begin said or meant" or that Kapeliouk misquoted him, seem unwilling to come up with an English translation of the speech in question to prove that the Prime Minister said something else or really meant something else. Until they can come up with the actual speech, I would tend to believe the accurate reporting of Kapeliouk, based on the positive reference of one who knew him personally.
 
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