Galaxia2002,
I am brand new here and not as "studied" as most everyone here. I hate reading and have hated reading my whole life. Interesting thing, I have always been a writer of songs, poems, and short stories though..
Just some opinions here. I think the Gospel of Thomas is a beautiful book as it was not canonised and was not altered or perverted beyond it's original format. It is from the Gnostics and it gives the impression of God and Heaven being within us rather than some external thing we give our powers away to. This fact alone makes me think that there is some validity to the Gospel. It is supposed to be from the early teachings of Jesus.
The cool thing about this gospel is that it gives one the chance to witness where Bible tampering or creative addition has been made. I was trying to get my Christian wife to read it the other day and she won't even look at it because she read the last line and completely disagreed with it, although she completely agrees with every word in the King James. I find that highly contradictive myself. In Wikipedia, you get to see how the original version was in the Gospel of Thomas of certain verses then the later additions to those verses in the New Testament. Of course those additions are all the Burn in Hell yada, yada, yada additions.
The following is taken directly from Wikipedia:
The Gospel of Thomas and the historical Jesus
Many modern scholars believe that the Gospel of Thomas was written independently of the New Testament, and therefore, is a useful guide to historical Jesus research.[36][33] Scholars may utilize one of a number of critical tools in biblical scholarship, the criterion of multiple attestation, to help build cases for historical reliability of the sayings of Jesus. By finding those sayings in the Gospel of Thomas that overlap with Q, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, and Paul, scholars feel such sayings represent "multiple attestations" and therefore are more likely to come from a historical Jesus than sayings that are only singly attested.[37]
The Gospel of Thomas has been used by Jesus Myth theorists, such as Earl Doherty and Timothy Freke, as evidence that Christianity did not originate with a historical Jesus, but as a Jewish adaptation of the Greek mystery religions. The collection of teachings attributed to Jesus represent part of the initiation to the mysteries of their religion.
[edit] Comparison of The Gospel of Thomas to the New Testament
The Gospel of Thomas does not refer to Jesus as "Christ", "Lord", or "Son of Man" as the New Testament does, but simply as "Jesus."[38] The Gospel of Thomas also lacks any mention of Jesus' birth, baptism, miracles, travels, death, and resurrection.[39] However, over half of the sayings in Thomas are similar to sayings and parables found in the canonical gospels.[40]
The Gospel of Thomas does not list the canonical twelve apostles, though it does mention James the Just, who is singled out ("No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being"); Simon Peter; Matthew; Thomas, who is taken aside and receives three points of revelation; Mary; and Salome. Though here Mary Magdalene and Salome are mentioned among the twelve disciples, the canonical Gospels and Acts only mention men, but make a distinction between "disciples" and the inner group of twelve "apostles" — a Greek term that does not appear in Thomas — with varying lists of names making up the canonical twelve. Despite the favorable mention of James the Just, generally considered a "pro-circumcision" Christian, the Gospel of Thomas also dismisses circumcision:
His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?" He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect."
Compare Thomas 8 SV
8. And Jesus said, "The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and easily chose the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"
with Matthew 13:47–50 NIV:
47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Note that Thomas makes a distinction between large and small fish, whereas Matthew makes a distinction between good and bad fish. Furthermore, Thomas' version has only one fish remaining, whereas Matthew's version implies many good fish remaining. The manner in which each Gospel concludes the parable is instructive. Thomas' version invites the reader to draw their own conclusions as to the interpretation of the saying, whereas Matthew provides an explanation connecting the text to an apocalyptic end of the age.
Another example is the parable of the lost sheep, which is paralleled by Matthew, Luke, John, and Thomas.
This is the parable of the lost sheep in Matthew 18:12–14 NIV
12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."
This is the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15: 3-7 NIV
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."
This is the parable of the lost sheep in Thomas 107 SV
107. Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, I love you more than the ninety-nine."
This is the lost sheep discourse in John 10: 1-18 NIV
1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them. 7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[1] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. 11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me — 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father — and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
Other parallels include
* Matthew 10:16 parallels Thomas 39.
* Matthew 10:37 parallels Thomas 55 and 101
* Matthew 10:27b parallels Thomas 33a.
* Matthew 10:34–36 parallels Thomas 16.
* Matthew 10:26 parallels Thomas 5b.
I hope this helps.. I wouldn't trust anything from the Bible as it is presented. My take on the Bible is that there are certain Archetypes that have always existed or STS type 4's have traveled back in time and programmed those archetypes into hte collective consciousness and those archetypes began to filter down into the 3rd density sub conscious. Those archetypes then became drawings, symbols, text, stories etc.. Through the ages those stories took on different faces and bodies. The players were changed, the locations were changed etc.. many, many, many generations later, Monotheism became the popular representation through brute force and fear of losing one's life if he or she believed in anything else. The Bible was a compilation of popular stories written by whoever.. No one is sure although the C's tell us it was Greek Enforcers.
The thing I feel is important to grasp is the fact that there are ultimate truths in the Bible that come from 4th density archetypes and the Bible is a book of pure symbology that represents those truths through a bunch of creative lies.
That is my two cents and first post outside of the newbie area,
Mach66
I am brand new here and not as "studied" as most everyone here. I hate reading and have hated reading my whole life. Interesting thing, I have always been a writer of songs, poems, and short stories though..
Just some opinions here. I think the Gospel of Thomas is a beautiful book as it was not canonised and was not altered or perverted beyond it's original format. It is from the Gnostics and it gives the impression of God and Heaven being within us rather than some external thing we give our powers away to. This fact alone makes me think that there is some validity to the Gospel. It is supposed to be from the early teachings of Jesus.
The cool thing about this gospel is that it gives one the chance to witness where Bible tampering or creative addition has been made. I was trying to get my Christian wife to read it the other day and she won't even look at it because she read the last line and completely disagreed with it, although she completely agrees with every word in the King James. I find that highly contradictive myself. In Wikipedia, you get to see how the original version was in the Gospel of Thomas of certain verses then the later additions to those verses in the New Testament. Of course those additions are all the Burn in Hell yada, yada, yada additions.
The following is taken directly from Wikipedia:
The Gospel of Thomas and the historical Jesus
Many modern scholars believe that the Gospel of Thomas was written independently of the New Testament, and therefore, is a useful guide to historical Jesus research.[36][33] Scholars may utilize one of a number of critical tools in biblical scholarship, the criterion of multiple attestation, to help build cases for historical reliability of the sayings of Jesus. By finding those sayings in the Gospel of Thomas that overlap with Q, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, and Paul, scholars feel such sayings represent "multiple attestations" and therefore are more likely to come from a historical Jesus than sayings that are only singly attested.[37]
The Gospel of Thomas has been used by Jesus Myth theorists, such as Earl Doherty and Timothy Freke, as evidence that Christianity did not originate with a historical Jesus, but as a Jewish adaptation of the Greek mystery religions. The collection of teachings attributed to Jesus represent part of the initiation to the mysteries of their religion.
[edit] Comparison of The Gospel of Thomas to the New Testament
The Gospel of Thomas does not refer to Jesus as "Christ", "Lord", or "Son of Man" as the New Testament does, but simply as "Jesus."[38] The Gospel of Thomas also lacks any mention of Jesus' birth, baptism, miracles, travels, death, and resurrection.[39] However, over half of the sayings in Thomas are similar to sayings and parables found in the canonical gospels.[40]
The Gospel of Thomas does not list the canonical twelve apostles, though it does mention James the Just, who is singled out ("No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being"); Simon Peter; Matthew; Thomas, who is taken aside and receives three points of revelation; Mary; and Salome. Though here Mary Magdalene and Salome are mentioned among the twelve disciples, the canonical Gospels and Acts only mention men, but make a distinction between "disciples" and the inner group of twelve "apostles" — a Greek term that does not appear in Thomas — with varying lists of names making up the canonical twelve. Despite the favorable mention of James the Just, generally considered a "pro-circumcision" Christian, the Gospel of Thomas also dismisses circumcision:
His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?" He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect."
Compare Thomas 8 SV
8. And Jesus said, "The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and easily chose the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"
with Matthew 13:47–50 NIV:
47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Note that Thomas makes a distinction between large and small fish, whereas Matthew makes a distinction between good and bad fish. Furthermore, Thomas' version has only one fish remaining, whereas Matthew's version implies many good fish remaining. The manner in which each Gospel concludes the parable is instructive. Thomas' version invites the reader to draw their own conclusions as to the interpretation of the saying, whereas Matthew provides an explanation connecting the text to an apocalyptic end of the age.
Another example is the parable of the lost sheep, which is paralleled by Matthew, Luke, John, and Thomas.
This is the parable of the lost sheep in Matthew 18:12–14 NIV
12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."
This is the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15: 3-7 NIV
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."
This is the parable of the lost sheep in Thomas 107 SV
107. Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, I love you more than the ninety-nine."
This is the lost sheep discourse in John 10: 1-18 NIV
1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them. 7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[1] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. 11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me — 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father — and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
Other parallels include
* Matthew 10:16 parallels Thomas 39.
* Matthew 10:37 parallels Thomas 55 and 101
* Matthew 10:27b parallels Thomas 33a.
* Matthew 10:34–36 parallels Thomas 16.
* Matthew 10:26 parallels Thomas 5b.
I hope this helps.. I wouldn't trust anything from the Bible as it is presented. My take on the Bible is that there are certain Archetypes that have always existed or STS type 4's have traveled back in time and programmed those archetypes into hte collective consciousness and those archetypes began to filter down into the 3rd density sub conscious. Those archetypes then became drawings, symbols, text, stories etc.. Through the ages those stories took on different faces and bodies. The players were changed, the locations were changed etc.. many, many, many generations later, Monotheism became the popular representation through brute force and fear of losing one's life if he or she believed in anything else. The Bible was a compilation of popular stories written by whoever.. No one is sure although the C's tell us it was Greek Enforcers.
The thing I feel is important to grasp is the fact that there are ultimate truths in the Bible that come from 4th density archetypes and the Bible is a book of pure symbology that represents those truths through a bunch of creative lies.
That is my two cents and first post outside of the newbie area,
Mach66
