Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I still do not understand how the words revenge or retribution can be applied to the army. Do you expect Putin to personally retaliate or give such an order? I don’t remember that in chess they would punish the opponent’s pieces because of a pawn.
I don't mean revenge or retribution, I mean "ответно-встречные удары", if that makes it clearer.

But in fact, if Russia responds covertly, then Stoltenberg's howl will be heard throughout the galaxy!
Promises, promises...

I understand that you may not want to have time to grow old, and it will be so if Russia responds to NATO. However, then our children and grandchildren will not have time to grow old, and this is not what we want.
It's not really a matter of what I want. NATO, and the powers behind them, will be coming for our children and grandchildren regardless, unless they are stopped.

And everything that happens is God's game, and I drank vodka and went to feed the bear!;-)
Give Dmitry a pat for me. 😄


Dagobah Resident
Could you explain what you mean by this last sentence?

I apologize in advance for interfering in my own business, because the question is not addressed to me. However, I have extenuating circumstances. Firstly, the addressee of the question, according to his own words, drank vodka and it may be difficult for him to formulate thoughts now. Secondly, he is my countryman and I think I understand what he meant. In any case, I will express my point of view without replacing a respected forum member.
In Russia, in the government structures and in many ways among the population, there is a clear understanding that what is happening now in Ukraine is not a clash between Russia and Ukraine. What is happening now in Ukraine is only an episode of the long-term confrontation between Russia and the "collective West", led by the United States. The situation is developing in such a way that this tragic "episode" can become decisive in the fate of both Russia and many countries that make up this "collective west". In other words, too much is at stake and a purely strategic approach is needed here.
As for the specific ship, I am certainly very sorry for the dead sailors, but in my opinion it is more important that specialists understand the reasons for what happened. I admit that I will never know the truth about this, but specialists should find out this truth and take appropriate measures to ensure that such ships would die only after using up all anti-missile and anti-aircraft ammunition.

Я заранее прошу прощения, что вмешиваюсь не в свое дело ибо вопрос адресован не мне. Однако у меня есть смягчающие вину обстоятельства. Во первых адресат вопроса, по его собственным словам выпил водки и возможно ему трудно сейчас формулировать мысли. Во вторых он мой земляк и мне кажется, я понимаю что он имел ввиду. В любом случае я буду выражать свою точку зрения, не подменяя уважаемого форумчанина. В России во властных структурах и во многом среди населения есть четкое понимание того, что происходящее сейчас на Украине не есть столкновение России с Украиной. То что происходит сейчас на Украине является лишь эпизодом многолетнего противостояния России и "коллективного запада", возглавляемого США. Ситуация складывается таким образом, что этот трагический "эпизод" может стать определяющим в судьбе как России, так и многих стран, составляющих этот "коллективный запад". Другими словами на карту поставлено слишком многое и здесь необходим сугубо стратегический подход. Что касается конкретного корабля, то мне безусловно очень жаль погибших моряков, однако важнее на мой взгляд, чтобы специалисты разобрались в причинах произошедшего. Я допускаю, что я никогда не узнаю правды об этом, но эту правду должны узнать специалисты и предпринять соответствующие мероприятия для того чтоб подобные корабли гибли бы только израсходовав весь противоракетный и зенитный боезапас.

Ursus Minor

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
K.I.A. - Tributes have been paid to the dad-of-two and British volunteer Scott Sibley, 36, with former comrades describing him as "the bravest person" they knew, reports thesun.co.uk

Sibley, who was pictured with the Ukrainian flag on his uniform appears to have been a former member of the Commando Logistic Support Squadron.

Devastated friends and family paid tribute to a "beautiful guy inside and out". :-/

Earlier this week up to 20 Brit fighters were trapped in bunkers pounded by Russian airstrikes as they mounted a defiant last stand in Mariupol.

They are holed up with hundreds of starving civilians including children and women filmed pleading for mercy.

One observer said of the scene beneath the fortress-like Azovstal steelworks: "They are desperately holding out, it's like the Alamo." :rolleyes:

The Mariupol Brits are volunteers with the Ukrainian army who have vowed to never surrender.
They fear being tortured and killed if captured but face starvation after Putin's forces cut off supplies.

A British fighter, with them before being injured and moved to Kyiv, said: "There are as many as 20 British lads still there and I fear for them.

Two Gofundme pages have been set up to help his family cover funeral costs.
One of them, set up by Craig Gant reads: "Scott was a son, father, brother and uncle.

What a fine way for a 'dad-of-two' to serve his children...
How come they haven't retaliated against NATO for blowing up the Moskva then?

Maybe because it was officially a fire that sank the ship? :halo:

If the United States wanted a direct war against Russia (Russia doesn't want it either, it's a bad game) , it would officially claim the attack and the Ukrainians would not have said that it was a Neptune missile that caused the sinking... but to answer the question because I understand that it sounds like an empty threat, I think which is aimed at European countries in general, arms shipments... and those who want to join NATO.
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Dagobah Resident

US Congress approves WWII-like weapons program for Ukraine

Senate-approved “Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act” clears the House, waives restrictions of arms deliveries

Apr. 28, 2022

The US House of Representatives has approved a bill that would remove several constraints on sending weapons to Ukraine amid the ongoing Russian offensive. Adopted by the Senate earlier this month, the “Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act” revives the program Washington used to send military equipment to belligerents in WWII while officially staying neutral.

The final vote on Thursday afternoon was 417-10, with three members not voting. All of the Democrats voted in favor, while all of the ten members opposed were Republicans.

Introduced by Senator John Cornyn (R-Texas), the bill was passed by the Senate on April 6, but the Democrat-dominated House adjourned for a two-week Easter recess before taking it up.

It authorizes the White House to “lend or lease defense articles” to Ukraine or any “Eastern European countries impacted by the Russian Federation’s invasion of Ukraine to help bolster those countries' defense capabilities and protect their civilian populations from potential invasion or ongoing aggression.”

Cornyn’s bill does not create a new program, but rather makes it easier for President Joe Biden to send weapons to Kiev by suspending limitations imposed by two existing laws, one of which caps the length of the aid at five years.

However, the whole thing is conditioned on Ukraine having to pay for the “return of and reimbursement and repayment for defense articles loaned or leased” to it. Kiev’s ability to make such payments is questionable, since the Ukrainian government is currently asking the US and the EU for $7 billion per month just to keep paying salaries and pensions.

The lend-lease bill is separate from the ongoing US effort to send Kiev weapons from the Pentagon stockpiles. Biden has already blown through almost $3.5 billion authorized by Congress for the purpose, and is seeking more funding. However, it risks being held up if the Democrats insist on bundling it with their Covid-19 funding plan, as Republicans have warned they would only support a stand-alone bill.

“We don’t have the mechanism yet,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters on Tuesday.

The original lend-lease was enacted by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in March 1941 – nine months before the US entered WWII – and amounted to $50.1 billion (980 billion in 2022 dollars) by September 1945, when the program ended. Most of the weapons and equipment went to the UK ($31.4 billion) with a $11.3 billion share going to the Soviet Union and another $7.4 billion to other countries. In theory, the aid was supposed to be repaid or returned, but the US accepted the lease of military bases abroad instead.

UK calls for a 'global NATO'

British FM Liz Truss says a 'Global NATO' needs to arm Taiwan, like Ukraine

Apr. 28, 2022

The world order created after the Second World War and the Cold War isn’t working anymore, so the West needs “a global NATO” to pursue geopolitics anew, UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss argued, in a major foreign policy speech on Wednesday. Truss also urged the US-led bloc to send more “heavy weapons, tanks” and airplanes to Ukraine, and said China would face the same treatment as Russia if it doesn’t “play by the rules.”

My vision is a world where free nations are assertive and in the ascendant. Where freedom and democracy are strengthened through a network of economic and security partnerships,”
Truss said in a speech at a Mansion House banquet in London.

Dubbing this arrangement “the Network of Liberty,” Truss argued it was necessary because the economic and security structures developed after 1945 – such as the UN Security Council – “have been bent out of shape so far, they have enabled rather than contained aggression.”

“Geopolitics is back,”
she announced.

The collective West and its allies need to supply Kiev with “heavy weapons, tanks, aeroplanes – digging deep into our inventories, ramping up production,” Truss said, because the objective is to “push Russia out of the whole of Ukraine” and rebuild the country along the lines of a new Marshall Plan.

"The war in Ukraine is our war – it is everyone’s war because Ukraine’s victory is a strategic imperative for all of us."

Beyond that, NATO must ensure that “the Western Balkans and countries like Moldova and Georgia have the resilience and the capabilities to maintain their sovereignty and freedom,” and uphold the “sacrosanct” open-door policy, Truss said.

Her ambitions went beyond Europe, though, as Truss denounced the “false choice between Euro-Atlantic security and Indo-Pacific security.”

“In the modern world we need both. We need a global NATO,”
she said. “And we must ensure that democracies like Taiwan are able to defend themselves.”

Pointing to London’s unprecedented effort to embargo Russia, Truss insisted that “economic access is no longer a given. It has to be earned,” and that countries who wish to earn it “must play by the rules. And that includes China.”

The UK has sent a large quantity of weapons systems to Ukraine over the past several months, including NLAW anti-tank missiles and Stormer armored vehicles. British Armed Forces Minister James Heappey told Thames Radio on Wednesday it would be “completely legitimate” for Ukraine to use UK-supplied weapons to strike into Russian territory, to which the Russian military warned that any such attack would be met with a proper response.

Truss traveled to Russia in early February to threaten Moscow not to invade Ukraine, but ended up being widely mocked after multiple gaffes concerning geography. She first mistook the Baltic for the Black Sea in a BBC interview, then reportedly fell for a trick question from her Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov and insisted London would “never recognize Russia’s sovereignty” over Rostov and Voronezh – Russian regions she mistook for the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.

Starting her cabinet career as under-secretary for education and childcare in 2012, she has since held the environmental affairs, justice, treasury, and international trade portfolios, before replacing Dominic Raab as head of the Foreign Office in September 2021.


FOTCM Member
Revisited the subject of Azov Camps for Kids - see here (2015 & 2017):

Came across a western view; more or less a curiosity piece with a few nods of semi-approval. Here are a few photo shots first:

Summer Camp Pride Leadership Mascot

Ideological Gardening For Kids

Azov Kid Camp Planning - for thousands

Some of these kids 5-years later might have been ripe for Mariupol 2.0 - what a very sad waste.

There are other special mentions of Azov (not the kids) going back in time from people like the BBC and again, the BBC (Azov not so good - well maybe), and then Canada's meeting with Ukraine's self-professed Nazi paramilitary looksee, then rounding off with Canada's GlobalNews who whitewash the Azov for their Mariupol deeds in 2022. The press go this way and that, nothing new.

From 2017's Guardian:

Ukraine's far-right children's camp: 'I want to bring up a warrior'



Padawan Learner
Putin said very clearly that there would be retaliation for interference, yes?

We can debate the meanings of the words 'revenge, retribution, retaliation', and which term is best, or whether it applies correctly; or who gives the order, etc. What matters more, I think, is the effect of Putin's statement both on the ground and in the halls of power in the West - namely, there will be a military response by Russia, as promised, to foreign interference with their Special Military Operation.

Seems like the basics of strategic deterrence to me.
Do you work in the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces? Do you have reliable information that the explosion of the cruiser is related to external interference? Ok, report to Putin, he will decide on retaliation. Kindergarten.
Could you explain what you mean by this last sentence?
This means that Putin's every move must be thought out to such an extent that the whole party would lead to victory. Otherwise, one mistake can lead to the aggression of the entire NATO bloc on the sixth priority. Everyone will burn in the fire of a nuclear war.
The collective West is Britain, the USA (later), their vassals and sixes, who since ancient times dream of sawing Russia into resources. Well, without Russia, this world will not exist (c).


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Do you work in the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces? Do you have reliable information that the explosion of the cruiser is related to external interference? Ok, report to Putin, he will decide on retaliation. Kindergarten.
How reliable are the Cassiopaeans to you?
Q: (Joe) Was the Russian flagship Moskva hit by a missile?

A: Yes.

Q: (Joe) Was it the Ukies or did the US and allies have a direct hand in it?

A: US direct hand. CIA.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I was waiting for this question:lol:
So Russia strikes back, under the pretext of what Cassiopeia said.
All world: what?
Pretext is a lie. Again I ask you, how reliable are the Cassiopaeans to you? You are the one who asked, when you already knew what the Cassiopaeans said and were waiting.
Do you have reliable information that the explosion of the cruiser is related to external interference?


Jedi Master
Pretext is a lie. Again I ask you, how reliable are the Cassiopaeans to you? You are the one who asked, when you already knew what the Cassiopaeans said and were waiting.
I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing about.
Is it about why Putin (Russia) is not taking revenge for the US attack on the cruiser Moskva?
Why do you think he is not doing so?
He has announced "asymmetric actions" along with third country meddling in the conflict.
From what I have noticed Putin always does what he says, so I am sure it is the same in this case.
Just because it's not happening in a spectacular way doesn't mean it's not happening. Maybe we will only know it by the consequences.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I was waiting for this question:lol:
So Russia strikes back, under the pretext of what Cassiopeia said.
All world: what?
Perhaps if the Russian government had been listening to the Cassiopaeans 10 years ago, the whole situation with Ukraine could have been avoided? 🤔


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
'Sending message to diplomats who will pay visit to Kiev?'

Explosions rock Kiev during UN chief’s visit

29 Apr, 2022
Ukraine’s President Zelensky accuses Russia of striking the capital ‘immediately after’ his talks with Antonio Guterres

At least five cruise missiles struck Kiev on Thursday evening, President Volodymyr Zelensky has claimed, accusing Moscow of carrying out the strike to deliberately “humiliate” the United Nations as Secretary-General Antonio Guterres visited the Ukrainian capital.

“This says a lot about Russia’s true attitude to global institutions, about the efforts of the Russian leadership to humiliate the UN, and everything that the organization represents,” Zelensky said in his Thursday night address.

Ukrainian emergency services initially announced that an unspecified “facility” was hit in the Shevchenko district of the city, while a nearby residential building suffered damage to its lower floors. There were no reports of casualties, but Ukrainian authorities later said at least 10 people were injured inside the damaged 25-story high-rise, while media shared photos of firefighters working at the scene.

According to some reports, the unnamed facility may have been the Artem missile development and production plant, with the Guardian claiming the factory had been evacuated and stood empty since February.

Officials in Moscow have yet to comment on the matter, as the alleged strike took place around 8pm, after the evening press briefing by Russian military spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov. If confirmed, it wouldn’t be the first time Russia has launched strikes against military facilities in and around Kiev, including at an armored-vehicle manufacturing factory two weeks ago.

Earlier on Thursday, UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres met with Zelensky and toured Kiev and its suburbs, with Ukrainian officials showing him the sites of alleged “war crimes” committed by Russia. Upon hearing reports of a new “attack on Kiev,” the UN chief said it “shocked me, not because I’m here, but because Kiev is a sacred city for Ukrainians and Russians alike,” according to Reuters.

On Tuesday, Guterres visited Moscow for talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the Ukrainian crisis. They discussed the situation on the ground, with Putin explaining to the UN chief Moscow’s reasons for launching its military operation in Ukraine.

Russia attacked Ukraine in late February, following Kiev's failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, first signed in 2014, and Moscow’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. The German and French brokered Minsk Protocol was designed to give the breakaway regions special status within the Ukrainian state.

The Kremlin has since demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join NATO. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.
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