"presence" & terror


Jedi Master
Very interesting, and your experience of being "stabbed" in the ribs is similar to something I read last night:

The Old Hag

So as indicated I was asleep, peacefully snoozing away when suddenly my restful sleep was torn asunder by a merciless kick to the ribs (at the midway point between elbow and shoulder - a little closer to the elbow...) This was a potentially life threatening blow that hurt for weeks afterwards - it was as if I had received a thrust from a cosmic sword! Of course I [awoke from] this and stared around the room only to immediately realize that I was paralyzed - encased in "psychic cement." I could move my head [from] side to side and up and down but no movement below the neck line. I thought [to myself]: "Huh? What am I dying?"

I had just went to sleep a few hours ago and now what - heinous pain in the ribs and no movement below the neckline? What have I done to myself? I looked to my immediate left and viewed my red LED digital clock: it read 3:15 a.m. but there was something sinister about that readout!


For me, not only could I not move, but I trying to shout of even speak was fruitless. The point on my ribs where I was poked was about a palm width below the arm pit. I did not bruise but it hurt for days afterward! Although the presence was out of my line of vision, the finger was stark in my minds eye, as if projected there. It was a long bony finger that seemed to have too many joints to even be human. And even as I was awake, the cackling noise was so loud I thought my friend would wake up.

Yet, I wasn't afraid because the pain just made me angry, and I was ready to wring the monster's neck. I could also move the muscles of my face and grimace, but there was no use of my voice aside from groaning.

There was another experience in college with the same friend (makes you wonder). We were on the first floor of out shared dorm room whose window was about a foot above ground. The lights were out and we were practicing staring at each other with peripheral vision to see how our faces changed (just screwing around before we got ready to hit the bars on a Friday night). I was facing the door, and he the window. All of the sudden, I saw a shadow rapidly pass over the door, and my friend went white.

He started pointing toward the window with his mouth open and it took a while form him to talk. He said he saw a woman with black veil-like clothing move at top speed in front of the window, about the speed one would be going while riding a horse. This was about the speed the shadow I saw passed. The woman's face was in a grimace, and her skin was as white as chalk. I told him it must have been some chick in make-up.

"Well then", he said, "how do you explain the fact that her head was about three feet above ground level, and of normal proportions?" Pretty creepy...


Jedi Master
Ben said:
Well I have experienced sleep paralysis before and it was completely mundane, I didn't see anything or feel anything other than "I have sleep paralysis". Maybe fear of it through lack of understanding triggers negative experiences, maybe not.
Same here Ben, I've had sleep paralysis only once, but I knew it was sleep paralysis because I had read about it before. I found the experience very peaceful, though there were some hallucinations (a tinnitus/ringing kind of sound when I tried to move my body), they didn't scare me.

I agree though that it isn't necessarily black and white. Lots of people have sleep paralysis, know whats going on and what is going to happen (and that they'll be fine), and yet can't stop being scared.

I think maybe one solution might be to build up as much knowledge about it as possible, and to decide how you are going to feel when it happens. Maybe after some time, you can develop the will to enjoy it, or to at least observe it in a "fearless" way. To sort of drum the knowledge into yourself so hard, that you can't forget that you'll be fine. Those are just words though, putting it into action, or if thats even possible, is another thing all together.


P-p-p- hah-ha-ha .

I see, I've been busted from "The Force Is Strong With This one." To " Padwan Learner." (Next "step" ?)

Jez-, EVERYONE~ is pidgeon hole, and hierarchy -bound.

There are, ~no limits. (In being.)

("N', that scares some people, doesn't it? Like Laura's channel, "There IS no time".)

Yeah, well, maybe it's best if I stick with reading some articals from time to time. There seems little, to offer.

The recomendation, above, to read Robert Bruce's (Robert BRUCE Baird, was in a group home for mental illness, the last I heard. Also, had slipped into a dishing up a hodge-podge of bizzare and mismatching Western Occultism. I had known him since 2002-6.) "Psychic Self defense", is a good thing without any offerings, from myself. He is an experienced ("Astral Dynamics", 1999, Hampton Roads Publishing Company), dimensonal voyager: judging, from a book of his I have. These deterants (scares or commands to "HALT") are briefly, treated in, the same.


Jedi Council Member
444purebeing said:
(Robert BRUCE Baird, was in a group home for mental illness, the last I heard. Also, had slipped into a dishing up a hodge-podge of bizzare and mismatching Western Occultism. I had known him since 2002-6.)
I recommended Robert Bruce and I'm interested in what you say here. Where did you hear this, is this verifiable?



(Robert ruce BAIRD)When I became something of a co-worker and friend and had his phone number, he told me others were turned off by him being in a group home for mental illness (in Canada). For myself, that doesn't disqualify him as a historian with facts (?), anymore than scitzophrenia keeps John Nash ("A beautiful Mind") from functioning. But when he hip shots incomplete pieces of philosophies and practices, touts himself as a expert, practitoner (when, as a 40 year practitoner , myself, I can see he is , not. Historian, maybe. But if he lies about the rest: who, knows ? And, he does.) and mystic: that hurts people -"going off" -from what he scatters. So I have unsealed my lips. Others around him know of his living situation, as well.

The History of Westetrn "Magic": shows -as a REAL- "gain", a). financial loss. B). madness. c) criminals charges. d) death. Bob has 2 of these effects (see his bio at the end of "Diverse Druid"s. A controled environment stops the other 2 possibilites). Inducing them in others for the ego gradifaction of being a pan-"expert", is very destructive, so I had to answer it. More could be said, I hope it doesn't have to be. I invite him to sue me for slander (saying someone has a loathsome disease, is one count of it). If there is any possibility of his success in doing that, his living conditions have changed and/or he has managed to hide his past living conditions and what the address means.

Consume, with caution.

But, maybe that could be said of almost anything.

When I saw him last he was contradicting his own work and producing and enforcing clone, worshipers -who could not think for themselves. But, "protected" him, militantly.

Most disturbing, and nasty.

Love Ya ~ (And, him , for that matter.)


In regard to the "gain" above by "Achieved Magicians"** I am refering to historical documents and court records. Not, 3rd hand, wishful myths and fanasties propagated by persons to validate their desires and delusions through an association with or talking about the above.

Take, desires for ego, fame (Bob's), power, objects, persons and wealth. Aim them in your face -like a flame thrower -without true enlightnment first (requiring ego loss, which obstructs that). Now, press the activating lever.

Hm-m-m-m ?

**I can innumerate these occurances, if you wish. I'll try to find the time -if, my computer stays-up.

"Power", can only Flow Freely through everything, equally. It can only be felt, understood and ridden with, not -"Held" or posessed.

Stars Wars, is popular here. Darth Vader and The Emperor were "Holders".

Bob's supporters were mixing in depression, futility and old, Nazi articals of Occultism. I sensed it and then tracked it, in thier actual, verbal reaction. Similar pattern ? Imposed, pecking order, and an artficical hierarchy -mutual surpression and limited, imposed perception limitations. Historically, it appears for an ego reward -which seems to, never come.

I think, this, is the (one?) bad copy of the spiritual we are supposed to be -jammed- with.



444purebeing said:
Take, desires for ego, fame (Bob's), power, objects, persons and wealth. Aim them in your face -like a flame thrower -without true enlightnment first (requiring ego loss, which obstructs that). Now, press the activating lever.
All I know is that the NEW method prooved very beneficial to me and a very constructive addition to my meditations. I read RBB's web site, (material prior to 2003) and found it sane and relatively unprejudiced. That doesn't mean I gobbled everything he wrote and bowed down to worship the man. When I come across new material, it's the material I evaluate not the person. I also noticed that people involved in esoteric research of any kind are often subjects of attack from sources within and without.

Usually, the attacks break most of these people, and the intention of the attacking forces is to ultimately undermine the material. I am not talking about your opinion, but of what drove this man insane. He was obviously sane enough to write some coherent stuff at some point before he collapsed.

Personally, I think all those who judge people who are obviously attacked in such a matter (by forces seen and unseen) need to get a taste of how "sweet it is" to find yourself in such a position before they take the high and mighty road of self-righteousness. The best thing is to count yourself lucky that such sanity-breaking forces do not consider you worthy of their attention.


Well, I'm glad I can make you happy. I am a forty year practitioner, and 55 years old and experienced my first attack at twenty-two (she, had also been working on others, unbeknowns to me) with no training or experience in dealing with intrusion.

I can further your joy by letting you know that Bob came forth, and did well for a brief period and since, has made concrete choices that appear to be difficult to change (he's up to his shoulders in techiques to balance Chackras, and further -which he doesn't use. They seem to be memorized, to impress others.). Including attacking me psychically, because he was angry. At which I simply repied , that is not wise since I send back such things. He has exibited pride and rage publically. Then, brags he is a expert and "Mystic". What he writes can be carefully weighed to be "palatability". And, he indeed seems to be doing that from individual to individual, to emass a following. The antithesis of being a Mystic. And (the second -payoff), I am heart broken about it , since I saw his light and loved him as a friend.

Yes, I feel sure that , almost, everyone here is careful about what they inbibe. Unfortunately, not everyone is that way, and the most greedy and ignorant will resort to violence to impose warped, "personal power" theories (even, politically). I really don't think THESE, need mixed matter for a meal.

As I often mention, we are not infants that have to put everything in our mouths (mind systems) and SWALLOW IT.

To that end, I will diagram safeties about this phenomena (many touched upon by Laura -as well, in her channelings, writtings and research).

Speaking to a friend who is a psychologist, about a certain, unconventional preacher who spoke so many truths it baffled me that there were things that bothered me -coming from him. He replied that, psychology (and, sociology, as I learned) notices that such groups emassing a following use MANY things that ring true in order to make you think it VALIDATES, ALL THAT IS FED FROM THERE ON (this is also a technique learned in Sales courses). The problem is, most are not deeply familar with their inner minds (meditators ), to notice where their "hooks", are. Or, where the thrust motivated, leads -responsibly (please, don't assume I am talking about you or others, -here. There are few if any sacred cows, through this site).

It might be safe to say that when you catch people trying to lead or putting out information, LIEING (using others, to do the same and play dirty tricks) they are not STO, persons.

Well enough, as a caution. (I hope, I am finished with that particular issue.)



Laura notices the safety of being a STO (service to others. Our livingness and evolution is interlinked. Those, wise -know it) as a possible help for immunity to attack and eventual posession by other-dimensionals and psychic thugs. She seems to have noticed the "fear factor", used for paralysis (G.W.B. : "SHOCK AND AWE"). Personally, to me, it appears to be fitted to the individual and progressively calculated (often for, possible and eventual, full posession).

A dear friend, a Kahuna (whose business it was, in part , to deal with such things) said:

"They feed on FEAR."

How, do we not fear ?

Here is a working formula, from fiction from (the first of these "Dune" books) Frank Herbert's "Dune", to contemplate and practice. For, use in instances, -both- large and small:

"I will not fear. Fear, is the mind killer. I will face my fear and passing through it, ~only myself, will be remain." (Maybe, the moderator, Atredies can give it, verbatim.)

The Buddhists say, when the self turns from thoughts of external desires, happenings and objects -to SEE what -IT- IS, it finds... nothing. (The void, is shinning and worthwhile to the Easterner. The pure, primordial , spontainous creation, -point. It is not fearful at all. Not equated with death or hardship, as it is in The West.) What we find is a BUNDLE ("aggregates") of HELD, assumptions, attitudes, desires and learned behaviors. These form a "rigid self" concept (see Castenadas and Don Juan's teachings about reality composition and shift of "Assemblance Point". Yes, this IS the area we are in.) often propelling us into thoughts or actions , we would've preferred not to have thought/felt, or done, in hindsight.

For myself, since I was a little nipper, (see: Herman Hess' novel, "Siddartha") I knew, the true self to be like a brilliant light, CAUSING creation. Beyond time and being effected by externals. (Atma or Atman -the true spark of life and eternity, in each of us). Therefore, the basis of "Nothing, is real". Yogis call it -Maya. The Buddhist -Samsara. A way of thinking about ("the rules are consistant, to themselves") "The Matrix". From that, true point beyond, words, "normal" thoughts or objects: creative shifts, are possible. (The whole basis of Eastern "magic", miracle working, "Siddhis", is therefore, -quite simple.)

And, in my own personal, character proclivities: I am a stubborn, witch and mule, if anyone or thing tries to FORCE me to an emotion, situation or action . I'll put it on "Extreme Stop", until hell freezes over, or, the person/thing is exausted.

Therefore, demanding autonomy, is another factor (as Laura notes).

So, here we have a few retardants and halts for this type of interferance (which, I think appears as a natural graduation point, regardless of why or how the stinkers ~latch on):

1) Fear (throws open the door, because if you are convinced you can do nothing -it becomes -TRUE. Self-hypnosis.)

2) Bribes (Seduction. PERSONAL doors that open, for -usually- bogus promises. This is covered, somewhat , above. Intruders, of any species are thieves and grandeous liars.)

3) Forgotten Autonomy (Not believing in, or forgetting it. Not remembering and demanding, TOTAL, -self rule. Possibly, not honoring it in others.)

4) "A taste for Truth" (-Laura). A taste for truth that is so intense that it will focas beyond, the desire for anything, and cut through to it. This can (actually) cause an unmasking, or even make you not care (as much) about the surface of the event.

5) Service to Others (being a STO, person ): If you DO understand all life is One, you are not likely to be moved by fear, greed or lies: you, see -THAT MUCH and in a broader sense. Secondly, when you become this, ALL THE STRENGTH OF THE LIVING , joins you. Understanding, energy and interlinking, flows copiously.

For myself, I believe all things and people are equal (manifestations of what is called "God". If you look into them -Raja Yoga- deeply and long enough, they will SHOW THAT to you. Don Juan, "Talk to the little plant, Carlos. Tell it you don't feel important, anymore." And, "For me, all things are equal." His "Gazing" and tip of the nose techniques, for "Seeing", are indentical to the latter practices**). Therefore, how could I be afraid of someone being stronger than me?

Anything useful ?

Monkey's, "I can't hear because there is a banana stuck in my ear", really appeals to me, as humor.

Adding some of my own (usually, ill-appreciated ). Bob called these confrontations "Entering The Den of Lions". I call them: "Stepping in the chicken ____, in the hen (or rooster) yard". ( I like Laura's observation, "There is a qualitative difference between 'alien intelligence' and intelligent aliens. "). For me, this seems to put it in it's more proper perspective. That touch of truth /ironic humor and reaction, can have a withering effect on such an intrusion. These, are made of lies and illusion. We are made, of MIND. (And, even more/less...)

**The Tibetan, Dream Yoga and Tantric Practices for navagating The Bardos: the post death, dream or astral planes is almost identical to the "Dreaming" practices , Castenadas (from Don Juan, et all) writes of. Expect the former, includes the "intent" of the evolution and freedom of all beings, along with whatever enlightenment or experience is gained.

This doesn't have to be materialized as some sort of physical, land migration. Seeing deeply, every time and culture -seems to see the same things. Discoveries.


444purebeing said:
Well, I'm glad I can make you happy. I am a forty year practitioner, and 55 years old and experienced my first attack at twenty-two (she, had also been working on others, unbeknowns to me) with no training or experience in dealing with intrusion.
Believe me, it doesn't make me happy. I know what it's like to be a target, especially when you are so without having hurt others except by being yourself. For years I've been marked by old and new world sorcerers and sorceresses, cultists, new agers and just psychopathic amateurs with a Messiah complex, both in the US and Europe.

I have also seen many who started out with good intentions fall, either by becoming psychopaths themselves or descending into psychosis from the pressure of the attacks. What does not kill you makes you stronger, and not all can get stronger when under a constant barrage.

Personally, I am more inclined toward meditation and a path to self-understanding, and the more applied esoteric zones I explored were a matter of learning to survive under the onslaught.

I took RBB's information on psychic self-defense with a grain of salt, using only one technique, and that modified because it seemed he was attacking the inner subconscious as much as any "negs" with it. I completely bypassed all the chakra stuff, and the astral projection material just doesn't click with me. The only think I did use was the bioenergetic circulation material, and even that adapted to my own needs and disposition. Using it as a template I was able to gain a lot of insight and benefit, but not by swallowing it raw by any means.

The distinction I wanted to make in my previous comment was that RBB sounds like someone who started out sincere and then became corrupted into psychopathy somehow. He had also mentioned that the death of his son had hit him hard and that he had never recovered. As I mentioned, I got the impression that many of his neg-attacking methods seem to end up attacking the subconscious aspects of the self, and I got the impression that this person is prone to denial.

His bioenergetic methods generate profound movements in the beginning, and after a while the energy seems to tone down (at least in me) as if it is muted. I took this to be resistance to work through, but in his articles he says this muting is normal, which was one of the things that made me suspicious.

Still, by coming in to contact with his material and because I was descriminating I am better for it. I can understand, with your personal experience where you are coming from, but there are a few others who are exploring some of Bruce's methods and your tone is so extreme that one is inclined to either drop anything related to Bruce and run in the other direction, or simply ignore you. In both cases it would be throwing out an opportunity for possible benefits and understanding.

444purebeing said:
Speaking to a friend who is a psychologist, about a certain, unconventional preacher who spoke so many truths it baffled me that there were things that bothered me -coming from him. He replied that, psychology (and, sociology, as I learned) notices that such groups emassing a following use MANY things that ring true in order to make you think it VALIDATES, ALL THAT IS FED FROM THERE ON (this is also a technique learned in Sales courses). The problem is, most are not deeply familar with their inner minds (meditators ), to notice where their "hooks", are. Or, where the thrust motivated, leads -responsibly (please, don't assume I am talking about you or others, -here. There are few if any sacred cows, through this site).
It sounds like psychopathy as expressed in Ponerology and through other threads in this forum, and the issue is pretty much saturating our reality. Believe me, I and most everyone else in the SOTT forum has been or is being sensitized to it.

Your next comment as well fits in with all the discussions here on how to identify and deal with psychopaths; a topic by the way that is multifaceted and complex. Understanding it from all possible angles is a life-safer given all the tricks and traps out there in all walks of life.

And there are a lot of similarities in dealing with human psychopaths and dealing with ones that are non-corporeal, predatory alien or what have you. The trans-dimensional if you will psychopathic strategies are pretty obvious once you encounter them a few times, as you have noted. The promoters of these strategies seem to lack the capability of evolving them, while those at the other end of the spectrum are constantly evolving in their relationship to them, once they get the basics of what is happening.

I agree that these psychopathic influences are not "a den of Lions", but I also believe that underestimating the situation can be dangerous, and many have been left by the wayside because of that. Personally, I found the best defense/offense or way of dealing with the situation is connection and ideally identification with the Atman.


I recently had a situation in the context of sleep paralysis which I posted elsewhere. Having ben lead to this topic by an aquaintence through an e-mail I thought I would share my 'elsewhere' post.
Last night as I was sleeping I had a dream about kick ball (like
baseball but you roll the ball and kick it and run to the various
bases). Not to much about this seemed too wierd other than 1 friend
who died a few years back was there and a few hand stands on a very
steep grassy hill and the fact that myself at 37 years of age don't
really consider going out and playing kick ball at all if ever.
Just before I awoke there was a strange increase of white light that
was much slower than a flash and this ringing. The next thing I knew I
am laying in bed with this very loud ring. It was as if someone had
shot a weapon off next to my head kind of ringing but instead of that
little ring in your ear it was as loud as someone screaming. I must
have laid in bed about 8-10 seconds hearing it before I was able to
What I mean by function is that I was almost paralysed with fear and
disbelief. I started to try and speak and move and it instantly went
away. I immediately turned to my wife and said did you hear that.. and
of course she had not and I woke her up.
There was nothing bad about it. I am of the belief that my reaction by
fear or disbelief was the only references of it being this or that
(benevolent or destructive). It was just so foreign. This is my first
experience and its got me a little (self induced) at awe and wonder
with the experience. If anyone has any ideas or thoughts I would
appreciate anything similar your willing to share.
I like the shared information in the previous posts but think that of all the information like the wikipedia stuff that it does not directly pertain to me. An example would be in the wikipedia post: "People who are fortunate enough to be facing a clock while having an episode may often be surprised to see how little time has gone by during an
episode that seems to last a very long time." -end -I did not find it took for ever. It seemed the ringing continued 8-10 seconds the whole time I was seemingly unable to move. I am just going to take it with a grain of salt, try to discover in myself what little I may be able to and see if I can at all come to a conclusion about it in the future. I would add though that I did feel a presence (real or imagined). I fell back to sleep thinking I had nothing to fear and it is/was all in my head. My wife commented that awhile later (after I awoke her and her falling back to sleep) something sneezed in her face and woke her up, she implied she had felt a presence as well though she saw nothing in the room.
Oh well until, if ever happens again, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
I'm a believer in the paranormal even tho I don't believe I've ever had a genuine experience. I DID have an experience of what I believe was sleep paralysis tho it was the most intense I've ever had. I was 15 & reading tons of books on Satanism & summoning demons. One night, around 12am, I attempted to summon a demon (15 year old angst/curiosity), got self-concious halfway thru, & went to bed. I lay there w/ my hands behind my head. A John Mellencamp song played on the radio. I remember suddenly not being able to move. I could hear this thunderous gutteral voice in my head speaking god knows what language, & I could feel this THING slipping out of my hands. I didn't know what it was, just that I needed to keep hold of it with all my might. Then it was over. I was instantly able to move n I sat up, sweating profusely. The same song was playing on the radio. I was shaken & gave up the occult stuff soon after. Since it never happened again, I put it down to sleep paralysis & overactiue imagination.


Jedi Master
Re: \

Something like this happened to me last night. I came to - though still very hazy and confused - and it suddenly became very quiet, the sensations of my limbs sort of withdrew inwards, and I had a very intense fear of impending death; my first thought was that something cataclysmic had occurred and we were all going to be destroyed at any moment. It was the silence more than anything that unnerved me; like all the air was being sucked away causing a vacuum.

Might've been that cheese pizza I had hours earlier. :/


The Living Force
Re: \

To add to a long list in this topic already :

A few nights ago, I started to wake up in my dream, feeling my whole body lying on the side, I was aware that i was dreaming because the images where displayed on the front of my head and i was watching them as if I was at the movie, in a dark room.
I suddenly felt like some thoughts were pushed inside my head from the top and I started squirming inside my own body, I then started to shout silently "leave me alone!!", I am not sure now but i felt like i was trying to curl up to protect myself.
I started to feel very sad and despaired and the last thing i saw when i really woke up was an image of an old vinyl record being flipped on the other side.
I was pretty shaken up and I could not sleep for a while.

The last image of the vinyl record makes me think either of a program of mine that I have to get rid of by changing the tune or it is an image of the predator within that plays me like a tune, it just has to flip the vinyl over to start again.
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