I have a question concerning our soul/spirit and personality. Does our personality reflect on how advanced or immature our souls are? I understand many things can influence our personalities like hormones, physical and emotional issues. I'm curious to find out if we can determine how far along the path our souls may already be. Example: A person generally mellows with age. A person who has always been impatient would (my guess) have an immature spirit while someone who is mellow and patient would have a more advanced spirit. Do souls mellow with age and would that come through as a soul's advancement?
Personality & Soul
- Thread starter DJM
- Start date
PepperFritz
The Cosmic Force
Michael said:
First of all, I think you are confusing personality with behaviour. And while careful, objective observation of someone's behaviour over time can reveal a great deal about that person (to someone who knows what to look for), the criteria for evaluation wouldn't be as simplistic and superficial as "patient behaviour = advanced spirit" and "impatient behaviour = immature spirit". A psychopathic predator can display a very pleasing personality and be extremely patient as he stalks his prey. And a great spiritual teacher/humanitarian can be very impatient with people at times....
In the end, "by their fruits ye shall know them...."
Michael said:
Hi Michael,
What would happen if someone answered your question? Would it matter to you one way or another? The thing is: the personality is all you have to work with right now. You don't even know if you have a soul or not. So instead of looking for signs of how advanced your "soul" is and dreaming away with that, how about working on concrete issues that you can see, feel and measure, like your behaviour, emotion, psychology, etc.? They would be of much more benefit for you.
Michael said:
A person mellowing with age can just be a product of the biological life cycle, which probably has very little to do with "soul advancement". For example, psychopaths mellow with age. This is biology, not development. However, one's personality traits CAN show their potential for development. You can find this in tendencies to be empathic, caring, self-aware, conscientious, etc. in small children, even if there are negative behaviours as well. But, what it comes down to is that there are two types of people: those who showed great promise in their life, and those who DID something with it. Perhaps that is a better sign of one's 'advancement'.
John G
The Living Force
Michael said:
In Jungian personality models there is a type called SP (sensing-perceiving) that is described as being more rebellious than the average person. Some people claim this type gets diagnosed as ADD and drugged when they are really just expressing their normal born with personality bias. This type is also described as being hard to tell apart from an SJ (sensing-judging) in later years because as you say they become more mellow and follow the rules more. This is a born with bias thing. From a personality theory point of view there are models for expressing how people become more mature in all traits not just their born with bias (on average people do become more mature in the traits they are biased towards). There is a view that you can't get to the highest level of maturity for any trait unless you get there in all traits. This is supported by the idea that at the highest maturity level the descriptions for all traits start to sound the same in that you are noticing yourself as a more than meets the eye part of a more than meets the eye big picture.
http://tap3x.net/ENSEMBLE/typeframe.html
For the above link you can click on any of the 16 ISTJ, etc. boxes then click on T or S or N or F to see five levels of maturity for that trait.
Color
Jedi Council Member
Michael said:
Hi Michael,
Example:
A person with a soul development potential gets comfortable within this world, finds some level of a 'secure' functioning
within our Ponerized society and has a lot of patience, cause it's not spent on inner struggle; while another person, with a same potential,
decides to reexamine her/his goals, thought patterns, own actions and finds itself in the middle of an inner fight.
Everything which was once 'known' is in question now and each step opens up only more questions, inner struggles...
Little chance that person would be calm and able to show an extended amount of patience for the outside world :/
Question: which of those persons do you consider to be more of a'soul advanced', as you putted?
Alice
I want to thank everyone who responded. I tried to phrase the question the best I could, regardless everyone seems to get the point I was trying to make. I now know need to rethink some things. I guess it boils down to there's no way for any of us to truly know ourselves as long as we are stuck here on this rock, in this density. I'm still very new to this way of thinking and am having great difficulty staying focused on the truth. I sit and reflect at the end of each day before I go to bed, thinking of the days events and how I handled situations. I've come to the realization that I keep going back to old habits and I am sometimes a jerk. I keep getting too emotionally involved with the current events when I should be relaxing and watching in amusement. I forget to stop to smell the roses through out the day, instead run right past them in order to play the game. I'm trying to learn meditation without a teacher and must admit it's much harder that I could have imagined. I have a monkey mind that hops all over the place, so far I just found a good way to fall asleep. I know I'll get it sooner or later with Lots of practice. I also realize that I'm still going though a morning period but reading more articles here puts that nonsense to a halt.
Thank you all very much. I appreciate this website and those making it so. I'm still amazed with each visit!
I hope to meet you all on the other side :)
Michael
Thank you all very much. I appreciate this website and those making it so. I'm still amazed with each visit!
I hope to meet you all on the other side :)
Michael
Cyre2067
The Living Force
Hmm well that depends on what you're referring to. If you mean, our 'true selves' - whatever that is - then you're likely right. Though there are a lot of good-feeling sleeping droughts you can take that promise just that. If on the other hand, you're referring to you're everyday self, the being that walks and talks and calls itself I - well then I'd disagree, in fact that's the point of a lot of the Gurdjieff material - getting you to know yourself. It takes the development of a faculty of one's mind that likely previously did not exist. A part of you that watches and records, observes without judgement, and sees you behavior, your interactions, your 'likes' and 'dislikes' and simply notes them. Imho that's one way one can 'know thyself'.
Have you had a chance to partake the narcissism books? I think the order is Trapped in the Mirror (Goulomb), The Narcissistic Family (Pressmans) and then Drama of the Gifted Child (Miller?). There's also the works of K Dabrowski which I'm just getting acquainted with - fascinating stuff. The point being is that the awareness that you're having now is the first step toward growth, the next step is using that awareness, how do you feel when you see those things in yourself? And using that feeling to do something about it - like learning!
Well that's a pickle, sometimes we should be emotionally involved, emotions are powerful and from what I've seen, are the key to developing one's potential. Then again, relaxation, stress reduction and enjoying life are also necessary otherwise we'd be too stressed to ever get anything done properly. Maintaining a balance is what matters, or so I think.
Teachers are overrated in my opinion, at least for that particular subject. There are a plethora of ways to meditate, and if you use the search function you'll find incredible discussions on the topic. My favorite is just letting my mind wander and following my thoughts, observing them and the feelings they engender. Some try to empty their mind, some focus on one particular object or concept, all have their applications but while it can be useful it can also be another way to lull oneself to sleep.
Ya, my favorite spot on the web.
You guys/gals are awesome! Thanks for the reading tips. So far I've managed to finish 2800+ pages of Mrs Laura's transcripts (that's how I found this site). It was the cold slap in the face I needed to awaken. I'm currently at the midway point of The Wave (on-line version) and have been spending a lot of company time reading a wealth of information here. Should I read anything in a particular order? The reason I ask, some of the things I have read go right over my head and I have to reread them several times before it sinks in, some things are still over the top. Might things may be easier if I finish book A before reading book B?. Otherwise as soon as I complete The Wave, I was going to dive into some Gurdjieff material because I see it come up often and then finish more of Laura's books. Mr Arkadiusz's QuantumFuture website also caught my eye and would like to spend some time there. This is all so very overwhelming, with the vast amount of information. I feel like the past forty years of my life has been wasted and now it's time to catch up before it's too late. I do feel fortunate for what knowledge I've gained so far.
Thank you all again.
Michael
Thank you all again.
Michael
Cyrus Wallace
Jedi
Alice said:
I choose the second one. A soul that discovered that "he/she is not of this world" will try to find the truth or his/her knowledge of his/her true self: "The "person" who looks trought his/her eyes". That means that their fight against "The Control System" will begins. That inner and external fight will bring a lot of pain and sorrow, because this world wasn't made to confort souled humans. That is what I think.
Obviously, is hard to souled humans, when his awareness let him reach determinate sould development level, to stay calm in an "foreign environment". The Control System doesn't help at all: more you know, more you will be tried to be "supressed" by its agents, Organic Portals and so on. I don't know if I'm a souled human or simulating their behaviour, but I will investigate as far as I can.
Nevertheless, we still have a lot to learn, a lot to read, a lot to investigate and sometimes we don't even know where to start or what are lies and what are truths. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Alejandro, from Argentina. :)
<Sorry, my english is bad>
Hi Michael,
There is a recommended reading list in the Books section. I would suggest you complete the Wave and the Adventure series first to get acquainted with the basic concepts. Both are available online. After that, I would move onto the psychology books in the list with the order below.
"The myth of sanity"
"Trapped in the mirror"
"Unholy hunger"
"The narcissistic family"
"Drama of the gifted child"
"Deep therapy in the fast lane"
You can also read "In Search of the Miraculous" to know more about Gurdjieff's teachings, but I think the narcissism books above are of higher priority.
There is a recommended reading list in the Books section. I would suggest you complete the Wave and the Adventure series first to get acquainted with the basic concepts. Both are available online. After that, I would move onto the psychology books in the list with the order below.
"The myth of sanity"
"Trapped in the mirror"
"Unholy hunger"
"The narcissistic family"
"Drama of the gifted child"
"Deep therapy in the fast lane"
You can also read "In Search of the Miraculous" to know more about Gurdjieff's teachings, but I think the narcissism books above are of higher priority.