Nigeria

loreta said:
Momo, it is true that shame can be a wall. But when I was young, the first time I went to Senegal, this shame was an open door for me to inquest about slavery. I read, read read about this subject. The second time I went to Africa I felt shame also, and in that case you are right: it was a bad feeling that I felt during all the trip and made of this travel a fiasco because my shame was interwoven with guilty. The shame I felt in Senegal was just when I went to the isle of Gorée, after that I immerse myself completely between the Senegalese people forgetting that I was a white woman, forgetting my culture and education. So I think that shame can be a door or a wall. Depends on your individual situation.

When I see now the wars in Africa and the future wars that will come I feel shame but also anger, more anger than shame. I think that shame with guilty is not good. Sorry for my English.

Hello loreta,

it is interesting that this shame made you want to know more about slavery.

Since shame is a very individual feeling - part of the "shadow" CG Jung speaks of, if I understand him right - it is a good tool for self-observance, for one of the hardest part of the Work, it seems.
And I always thought of it as something individual, but your post made me think.

When you immersed yourself, it seems that you were free from the concept "black" and it's "opposite" "white". And the people you were with were, too.

That is really cool, and has not happened to me in Nigeria (generally white equals wealth and the duty to give/buy, if you cannot, or don't want to, you are wrong/egocentric/selfish - thankfully this does not apply to my husband's family)

If I read your post right, you did not feel shame at that time of immersion.
Maybe there was no space for the kind of shame that we feel for a conceptualized group we believe to belong to?
In my opinion, this is the state to achieve constantly regarding our interaction with other individuals. (I haven't :-[ ...)
The moment you feel attached to one or the other conceptualized group, or see the person you interact with as member of such a group, imo you cannot perceive yourself and the person as is.
This kind of shame, and generally prejudice/preconception is a superb distractor and keeps individuals apart.
I think in this case it's part of what keeps racism active...


I completely agree that the wars in Africa should make one angry. Not just the wars in Africa, the situation of the reality we seem to live in as a whole.
It makes me really happy that this forum exists and to have found it - thx to one of you on FB - because this Work makes so much sense.

Greetings
Momo
 
Your feeling obsolete is probably a program. :)
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Yes, I think so - and a very tough one. It has a flipside: feeling superior. At least so I think. It is really worrysome and dangerous - and I am full of fear about it, because I have not found a way of letting it go.
I am just about discovering some kind of hidden depression with Tinnitus, cervical syndrome and such. It is one of the realizations I made enforcing the conscious journey again that I was on when I was a child up until being a teenager.
And I am really trying to be brave and keep my eyes open.
Reading, questioning, and now also interacting might help - so I hope.
I'm not sure if I'll remain a seed or be courageous enough to try to sprout, so to say ;).

Mariama said:
Sharing Africa's history with us is not obsolete at all, OSIT.
Consider the French war in Mali. It seems to me, that the Malian people have forgotten their history. Why would they thank Hollande (president or something of France) and treat him like a saviour? Have they forgotten that they were a French colony not so long ago (50 years ago or so). Have they forgotten what the French did to them?
The other day I spoke to someone about the war. According to him the people now wish to cooperate with the French in order to stamp out all rebels. He also said that they were kept in the dark about the war and that you don't get to see pictures of the people that died and other devastation. Which I don't get. AFAICT, you have all these small internet cafes where people could easily find more information. I take it that they could find French SOTT, if they wanted to, even with a slower computer.
I can only conclude that many Africans have already been poisoned and dumbed down by Western influence. Or have they censored the internet? :/

There is not much that I know about Mali.
But in Nigeria, everyone in the cities - and majority of the people live in the cities - have access to uncensored Internet - on their cellphones (which everyone possesses) and in internet cafes.

But what I observed during my stay is that the

- gap between rich and poor in the country (I know extremely wealthy Nigerians, as well as extremely poor - and both are very "educated", meaning they have completed British-style university programs),
- the confusion of cultures and religions,
- the mixture of people (imagine forcing all the people in middle Europe into one country, and giving them a new name, a political system that contradicts their owns and telling them they are inferior - but that is another long story) and
- the stories of Hollywood and of expatriates,

plus quite a number of other factors still unmentioned in this little portrait, just keep everyone extremely busy and confused.
Not just dumbed down by Western influence, but confused by the diversity and contradictions of the situation.
This makes it rather impossible to unite and stand up against whichever outsider who needs ressources or "helps" fight a war and such. Apart from that it is very very deeply implanted in the people that lighter skin equals superiority, and riches.
[/quote]


Good conversation. Thank you for opening your perspective. As an African-Caribbean descendant and part of of African Diaspora, the above observation is correct. My homeland has had 8 different country flags over our 500 year colonization. It is my observation that this system was designed to accomplish just what is playing out today. Can you imagine the pride that people of African descent would feel if they were allowed to see the great creations of art, technology, jewelry making, metalsmithing techniques, etc. before the advent of colonialism, Islam, Christianity, etc? Many of thousands of the proofs of these things can be found behind the closed doors of the British Museum, the Vatican and many other countries who participated in the rape, pillage and plunder of the Continent.

The other issue is the rights of people under colonial domain a.k.a. non self governing countries to pursue self determination, http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=44193&Cr=decolonization#.USovLaRf1al.twitter. The question to ask would be what amends would assist in healing the wounds of those seeking wholistic restoration of heritage without political interference?

There are countries like Ghana who have asked forgiveness from those who were sold into the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and set aside land for those wishing to return. That is a big step, however, most people don't even know who they are or what tribe they came from. Is this so there can be no collaboration between those in the African Disapora and those oppressed on the Continent? How many countries whose societies have prospered/continue to prosper greatly by the exportation and exploitation of resources including people have the political will to acknowledge the great wound to humanity? What are they willing to do to put things into balance?

For those who are truly interested in having a better understanding of the journey, i suggest these videos: Hidden Colors 1 & 2, Lost Kingdoms of Africa, A War for Your Soul, to start and "Christopher Columbus and the Afrikan Holocaust: Slavery and the Rise of European Capitalism" by John Henrik Clarke. Thank you for allowing me to share.
 
1peacelover said:
Good conversation. Thank you for opening your perspective. As an African-Caribbean descendant and part of of African Diaspora, the above observation is correct. My homeland has had 8 different country flags over our 500 year colonization. It is my observation that this system was designed to accomplish just what is playing out today. Can you imagine the pride that people of African descent would feel if they were allowed to see the great creations of art, technology, jewelry making, metalsmithing techniques, etc. before the advent of colonialism, Islam, Christianity, etc? Many of thousands of the proofs of these things can be found behind the closed doors of the British Museum, the Vatican and many other countries who participated in the rape, pillage and plunder of the Continent.

1peacelover, thank you for the videos, and for your input!
Yes, the problem of those detached from the motherland - like you - adds to the whole complexity in an almost hopeless way. During the few years I lived in L.A., I got to know quite a number of people who have no chance to ever find out where there ancestors are from. And with some who know about their bloodline, they find that there are actually several thin lines.
E.g. I met a lady who knows her ancestors are from Hungary, Native American (she doesn't know exactly), Africa (she doesn't know at all), and Italy.
She'd done a lot of research to get to this point of knowing, and while being happy finding out more about her Italian and Hungarian ancestors, she felt very helpless about not having a chance to know about the American and African ones.
When we talked, I realized that there is difficulty also in the relationship between Africans and African-Americans. I hadn't considered that before.


1peacelover said:
The other issue is the rights of people under colonial domain a.k.a. non self governing countries to pursue self determination, http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=44193&Cr=decolonization#.USovLaRf1al.twitter. The question to ask would be what amends would assist in healing the wounds of those seeking wholistic restoration of heritage without political interference?

Well yes, although life in itself imo is political - but you are referring to those in power, i guess. Politics in a wholistic sense is necessary.
The history of Liberia shows that a simple attempt to join together again is not helpful. The countries National Motto: "The Love of Liberty Brought Us Here." (see _http://timelines.ws/countries/LIBERIA.HTML) is quite a good example for what we call in German "Gut gemeint ist das Gegenteil von gut." (Well intended is the opposite of good.)
Probably a motto should have been "Their love for the ressources of our Motherland made them bring us here." _http://www.mbendi.com/indy/ming/af/li/p0005.htm


1peacelover said:
There are countries like Ghana who have asked forgiveness from those who were sold into the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and set aside land for those wishing to return. That is a big step, however, most people don't even know who they are or what tribe they came from. Is this so there can be no collaboration between those in the African Diaspora and those oppressed on the Continent? How many countries whose societies have prospered/continue to prosper greatly by the exportation and exploitation of resources including people have the political will to acknowledge the great wound to humanity? What are they willing to do to put things into balance?

For those who are truly interested in having a better understanding of the journey, i suggest these videos: Hidden Colors 1 & 2, Lost Kingdoms of Africa, A War for Your Soul, to start and "Christopher Columbus and the Afrikan Holocaust: Slavery and the Rise of European Capitalism" by John Henrik Clarke. Thank you for allowing me to share.



Ghana is a good example for a struggle to a good direction - it looks the self-awareness has been strengthened in many people. Not very long ago, Ghanians went to Nigeria to find work, and the Nigerians one day found them too many, and violently chased them out of the country. The cheap big plastic-woven bags, mostly white, red and blue, that you probably know of, are still called "Ghana-must-go" because for fear of health/life those told to leave quickly packed their belongings in them to rush out of the country. Terrible cold-bloodedness, no compassion whatsoever.

What I always ask myself is what I can actively do to support a change in these things. Just like in the questions you asked (bold), but on my individual level. So far I have only found that listening to people stories, reflecting them, talking out loud when it is necessary, and avoiding actions that support the way the system works are the best I can do - next to living my life in a way that doesn't compromise on what I found out is a development towards STO. Very often I realize things I've been doing support the wrong side, and I try to brake those habits/stop those activities.

If I may ask: Which people are you from? How did you find out?

Thanks for the exchange to all of you!
 
Hello, I can understand include the pride of the persons of African origins. They would like that their works of art their are restored by the Westerners. They also want that excuses their are made for what arrived at their people it a century or even 5 centuries! Not long ago I thought of the same thing, because I believed in the genetic body and I thought that the soul was passed (come)on by the genetics. But if we consider that the genetic body is only a vehicle, then we understand well that nobody little not to claim excuses in the name of ancestors, because nothing says that an african soul was always in an African vehicle. Maybe that the conservative of British Museum which protects African works, was in another life, the artist who created this work. And maybe that the persons who apologizes on the horrors committed by their genetic ancestors were maybe the victims. Everything depends on the fact that we believe to be and of the importance of our Ego.
 
Kisito said:
Hello, I can understand include the pride of the persons of African origins. They would like that their works of art their are restored by the Westerners. They also want that excuses their are made for what arrived at their people it a century or even 5 centuries! Not long ago I thought of the same thing, because I believed in the genetic body and I thought that the soul was passed (come)on by the genetics. But if we consider that the genetic body is only a vehicle, then we understand well that nobody little not to claim excuses in the name of ancestors, because nothing says that an african soul was always in an African vehicle. Maybe that the conservative of British Museum which protects African works, was in another life, the artist who created this work. And maybe that the persons who apologizes on the horrors committed by their genetic ancestors were maybe the victims. Everything depends on the fact that we believe to be and of the importance of our Ego.

Tying into this, I am myself African American. My step father once told me and also my black charter high school I once attended, that tribes faught and enslaved their own even before the white man arrived. And when the white men did arrived they traded slaves for materialistic items. Now don't get me wrong, I am emotionally and spiritually disturbed about my ancestors trajedy of themselves and their homeland. But could it be that as a consequence of their own totalitarian control that they also played apart in their own slavery. So I agree with Kisito that the importance of ones ethic ego is primarily subjective as far as feeling guilty. Not only could you have once been a slave proceeding in a past life, but it also could be a two way street. I am a true firm believer in karma and maybe as a result of ruling over their own it brung karmic dept.
 
celtic said:
Tying into this, I am myself African American. My step father once told me and also my black charter high school I once attended, that tribes faught and enslaved their own even before the white man arrived. And when the white men did arrived they traded slaves for materialistic items. Now don't get me wrong, I am emotionally and spiritually disturbed about my ancestors trajedy of themselves and their homeland. But could it be that as a consequence of their own totalitarian control that they also played apart in their own slavery. So I agree with Kisito that the importance of ones ethic ego is primarily subjective as far as feeling guilty. Not only could you have once been a slave proceeding in a past life, but it also could be a two way street. I am a true firm believer in karma and maybe as a result of ruling over their own it brung karmic dept.

What a wonderful thread! Thanks for your input everybody, things are becoming clearer to me.

Celtic, from what I understand from the books written by Maryse Condé (an African Caribbean writer) about the old Malian empire the slaves had some privileges (if you can call it that). If I remember it well they could marry for instance and also leave when they got older. But I am not entirely sure, as I read these books about 20 years ago.
Also, slaves were prisoners of war for instance. AFAIK people did not sell their own.
 
Hey, it's taken long to reply to this, sorry.

Well, in the end, your story is your story - the extent at which it is connected to your ancestors and/or former lives is within.

It doesn't disturb me emotionally that I know about some of my own ancestors being victims, other were perpetrators (hope this word fits as opposite) - in my case of the holocaust. Some noble people during the Austrian Hungarian Empire, some gypsies.
It gives me the chance to evaluate within, and bring these topics right into my life.
If I didn't know about it, and couldn't find out researching, I would be a little less rich in stories, and i would have to accept it as my destiny not to know.

What interests me so much about my husbands culture - and other cultures, particularly those of people I know and value - is the different approach, and it seems to make it easier to look for what we all have in common.

If you look at what you find cruel about slavery amongst african people, you can look at how cruel the "slavery" e.g. regarding seasonal "workers" for harvest in Spain is, and evaluate a shared basis for "humanity" making such systems possible.

If you look at the artwork of the Yoruba in a London Museum, you can realize how detached Europeans are compared to the original use of these artworks, merely looking at it as a concept behind a glass screen. Most Europeans will still look at a Yoruba person as a savage, and not connect the origin.

And then it might lead you to Obatala _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obatala , and the whole creation myth of the Yoruba, and you might find how we are really one humanity - like a broken mirror, each little fragment a universe on its own, reflecting a little differently, and distorted over time and distance.
You would find Obatala again in South America and the Carribean, and it will just round up the picture a bit.

I love these lessons, and am beginning to realize a little more that it makes sense to stay alive and learn for as long as possible (have been quite lost and detached recently).

Greetings!
Momo
 
Thank you for the sharing of this - not sure there's many places having discussions like these, which are purposeful.
Coming from Africa, it was a culture shock for me [on both occasions] coming to Europe then going back to Africa again.

There are so many interesting points here; I'd like to read over this again before replying more specifically. Reading all the different inputs has thought-provoking thus far :)
 
A very interesting thread thank you for sharing! I must say that nigeria is truly a very unique country in africa. Not only because of the exremly high population and breathtaking diversity of people but also the character of the people which still baffles me to this day. My father is Igbo and my mother german and I have been in Nigeria a couple of times in Nigeria. Truly a country of paradoxes and contradictions, of mystery, explosive creativity and intense livelyness. Wow this thread brought so many memories back.
 
Greetings Momo,

Again, thank you for starting this thread and sharing you learning experiences. My response is one of external consideration as well as one without blame, judgement or guilt, just truth as I know it. I responded to your comments some time ago, but for some reason, they never showed up on the topic. Oh, well, I guess they are floating around somewhere in cyberspace. Unfortunately, I hadn't saved it as a word processing document and I think it would have added a bit more information to the discussion. Anyway enough said.

When I think of my own history and existence in this place that is known as the former Danish West Indies, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_West_Indies, I think about the stories my grandparents shared with me and my cousins and such at family gatherings.

You see, in 1917 they were very young at the transfer from one colonial master, Denmark, to another colonial master the U.S. In actuality the Danes were weary of the transfer because of "the way the Americans treated their blacks" (Jim Crow laws, lynchings, burnings, etc.). So here you have a situation of free people being transferred like cattle from one owner to another with no say as human beings whether or not they wanted to be "under" the U.S. flag.

At the time, the Danes were bankrupt and had no navy to protect its assets in the Caribbean, so they were basically forced to sell the Danish West Indies and access to Greenland for $25 million in gold or the U.S. would have just taken the islands. WW1 was getting ready to break out and the U.S. needed a strategic base in the Caribbean. It was never about the inhabitants only about the geographic location. A spot half way between North and South America with some of the best harbors in the world. We even have a location called SubBase. After the purchase the Virgin Islands were under Navy law. Many inhabitants were brutalized under these laws. That is for another conversation.

My Granny and Grandfather were the products of a society based on race and class. Because my Granny was a coal, black blue colored woman, society she could only be a washerwoman, a cook, a house cleaner, etc. because of her black skin. Mind you now, my granny's grandmother was a blue eyed, blond headed, german ex-communicated missionary that ended up living with a free black man (hence the excommunication).

In the Danish West Indies as well as in other Caribbean islands, there are various shades and hues of black and brown. These colors represented the forced intercourse between Plantation Owners/Overseers and many an enslaved female. Remember the enslaved were property. In this society, the rules were based first on skin color and then class status. For instance the darker your skin, the earlier the curfew.

My Granny was raised catholic because she was born into the religion. Only the Moravians, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravian_Church, taught the enslaved and free blacks to read the bible and so my Granny's mother sent her to the Moravians so she could learn to read and write. However, the Moravians never encouraged freedom for their pupils (BTW, they owned slaves too), for they promised that freedom was waiting for them when they died, (this is why I am not Moravian).

As time went on my Granny began to teach her schoolmates how to read and write and became a student teacher @ 14 and the youngest person to take and pass the teacher's exam @ 17. She vowed not to become a washer woman like her mother. So said so done.

How ever and whatever the accomplishment, my Granny, still saw herself through the eyes of the colonial danish system through which she was neither citizen or subject. She never thought of herself as beautiful because she only saw her skin color and that in itself told her she was ugly.

My Granny told us that her people were from Saba and lived here in the "New" World before Columbus' voyage. They were a combination of Arawak/Taino and African. She would say her people were always here and many times she did not want to talk about our shared past because it was quite upsetting.

Interestingly, my granny's father's people came from the region today known a Ghana (in pre-colonial times Ghana referred to a group of people and not a place) and the only difference in the name is that in Ghana the name is spelled Kan-ton and over here it is spelled Canton. My mother took a journey in the 60's to find her roots. She came back a different person. I guess because she could connect a misplaced part of herself.

My Grandad's people it's been said were some of the guides the explorers used by the Europeans to explore this part of the world because they traveled the currents back and forth to the continent of Africa. They settled the island known a Hai-Ti before it was divided between the French and Spanish. We know that a portion of them left Haiti during the early years of the Haitian Revolution and traveled to the rest of the Caribbean where they settled first on St. John. However, they did not like the way that the enslaved or free blacks were treated so all except my Grandfather's Grandfather left for the other islands.

My father's Grandmother was Carib. The only reason her family survived the colonial conquest was because they chose to hide up on Nevis Peak. Almost all of the other natives were either slaughtered or ran for their lives. We are still trying to piece the stories together.

While I do overstand that we cannot change history, I do realize in order to not repeat those mistakes it is important to learn from them. My being in this place and time is due to certain things that happened over the course of human history of which has produced me. Stretching back in time, many people had to be born so that I may be here today to continue the journey of my parents and ancestors.

As a person of Afro Caribbean descent, so many things have been hidden from us. Today, we are being forced off our lands by the same capitalistic needs that drove the explorers to the "New" World. Many of my people suffer from the symptoms of a society exploited of their blood, sweat and tears to build still standing kingdoms on the bones of my people.

Many of my people have no clue who they are, where they have come from, or where they are being led. 500 years of breeding people into servants that cannot or will not think for themselves. If you consider having 8 different fathers who all have different ways of dictating rules and regulations. Who wouldn't be confused? Thank you again.
 
I would like to add something to the whole slavery, colonisation issue. Of course it is a terrible evil how white people have treated the black race the last couple of hundret of years and there is no excuse for it, but to see but to see the africans as the poor victims who need pity is the wrong aproach I think. If someone rapes, kills, tortures and enslaves someone else, means that there is something deeply wrong with that person and what he is doing to another human being, he is one one level doing to himself, and this is true also for a whole race or culture. Someone said well the africans had slaves too. To this I would reply yes but it was not the same. To have slaves like captured enemies or criminals who would to escape the death penalty choose a life of slavery is something else than forcing a whole race of people over several hundrets of years into an animal like existence and deny them their humanness. I mean come on. The slave trade is truly one of the most horrible crimes agains humanity of our modern time.
But considering the state of african nations one should not rush to quick judgements I think. Of course there is a lot of problems and confusion but considering the the brutal and fast cultural/technological transition that was/is forced upon them its no wonder.
For me going to nigeria was always a breathtaking expierience of shock, awe and wonder. The unbreakable will to life and explosive joy and free expression of emotions, the adaptivness and cleverness of the igbo people left me often times speechless.
Its a completly different view of life. For example unlike the aryan people who consider trickery as something essentially bad and dishonorable, the igboman sees playing tricks as a form of cleverness, a almost admirable trait in a person. The trickster archetype plays a prominent role in their view of divinity so to speak. It is a more humorous, playfull approach to life. The most famous cultural hero in igbo tradition is the tortois, for example. Although it appears very slow and flegmatic, it always outplays its enemies threw its cleverness.
When I went to buy something at the local market, a woman gave me what I considered a fair price for a couple of oranges. When I wanted to pay she was very anoied and I could not understand why. It was because I was not trying to push down the price. She saw this as some form of arrogant behaviour that I just accepted her price without properly inteacting with her so to speak. So one can really misjudge things when one applies their own cultural mesures upon it. (ohh yeah poor market woman I give you in my great compasion my money.... :lol:). Its respect what people want, not pity.

There is a famous song that all nigerians know by one of the most famous nollywood comedy- actors and it perfectly reflects the typical igbo spirit of "playing the mugu" (a mugu is a person who lets himself be cheated).



I don suffer no be small
upon say I get sense
poverty no good at all
na him make me join this buisness
419 no be thief (419 is the nigerian police code for FRAUD)
its just a game anybody de play am
if anybody fall mugu
my brother I go chop am
national airport na me get am
national stadium na be build am
president na my sister brother
you be the mugu I be the master
Oibo man I go chop your dollar (White man I will take away your dollars)
I go take your money disappear
419 its just a game
you are the looser I am the winner
the refinery na me get am
the contract na you I go give am
but you go pay me small money mek I bring am
you be the mugu I be the master

When oibo play wayo (when white people do their shit)
they say na new style
when country man do him own
they go shout bring him kill him die
but oibo people greedy them greedy
I noh see them tired
thats why when they fall enter my caraco
I go show them fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_YjvC4ndzM
 
Going to a market in Senegal was very funny. They really expect to play the game, and this is the funny part when you wanted to buy something. Senegalese are very sympathetic. That was something very difficult to learn, how to play with a vendor, how to try to have a less price for something because it is expected from you that you will play the game. So going to Africa is a lesson in various aspects, you have to change to be able to understand a little. And never judge.

I miss the vivacity of the Senegalese, their laugh, their expressions, their sympathy and hospitality.
 
Greetings,

As usual Thank you for the dialog. In the Caribbean, The trickster is who we refer to as Anansi the spider, which was passed down to many of us by way of music and stories. At family gatherings, we would wait for our Uncle, a local historian and our family storyteller to relate Anansi stories to us. Although Anansi was a spider and a trickster all the stories around Anansi had a moral. This is the way we children were taught from early about right, wrong, honor, deception, consequences, etc., but reinforced by the community.

The other part to my post had to do with the setting up of things as they are today. I do not view the various peoples and tribes as victims, but as human beings not in charge of their own destiny because of the way the world has been fashioned. This is not just about white & black or black & white, it is a reality that has created the reality we all exist in today. This system has also devastated my native Carib/Taino family. These events have shaken the entire world. In pre-Columbian Caribbean society, there were also people who were enslaved, but nothing like the perpetual or generational slavery planned by those seeking new lands.

Maybe research on:
1). The Papal Bull (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2421675)
2). Doctrine of Discovery (http://ili.nativeweb.org/sdrm_art.html)
3). Treaty of Tordesillas

The 1st enslaved in the Caribbean were the Native People, followed by various Europeans (French, English, etc. started out as indentured only to become slaves when they reached the Caribbean) http://www.exodus2013.co.uk/indentured-servants-to-the-west-indies/ and then the Africans. The slavery that Africans practiced was not chattel slavery. Enslaved people on the continent were more times than not people captured in battle and at some point that person became free and sometimes married into the family.

I agree that people want respect and not pity. As I am defined by those who set the rules, I cannot speak to Africa as just a continent today, but one made up of many countries whose borders were created based on those who chose to divvy up the natural wealth of the Continent to include her peoples. A continent whose existence has much of the material wealth underground yet her natural born people have little to no access to the wealth. It is the wealthiest continent with some of the poorest people. Did the people start out this way? Not according to the C's. The Earth was Eden +390,000 years ago. I can also accept that when the Africans had power they misused it and we are in a state of putting things back into balance.

However, that being said, the only way for me to even get a peep into parts of my history is to investigate oral and written accounts of precolonial perspectives from an African cultural perspective so I may avoid some of the traps that are still with us today. As a person living within my skin, there is no cure for blackness. According to the rules, I am a minority. There is no way for me to escape my skin color, it is me and many people came together so that I may have life, so I must live up to the many talents given to me in spite of who society tells me I can and cannot be.

While man's inhumanity to each other goes without saying, how do I as a person of Afro-Caribbean who knows the circumstances of my creation participate in a wider discussion when some of those very same mindsets and philosophies govern the way we think of one another and the value or not we place on life. Am I considered less important because my heritage has been erased to the point of removing all language, worship, culture, diet, etc.? If for a minute you, who is reading this apply, The Papal Bull, Doctrine of Discovery and Treaty of Tordesillas and apply it to our lives. now, do you not see the same systems in operation?

I know that the Africa that is propagandized on the news is but a small part of the truth, but how would people what the truth is if they are never encouraged to go? This article gives another perspective, http://www.globalresearch.ca/white-supremacy-exploring-the-contours-of-race-and-power-in-america/5334690, that speaks to the way society divides human beings into superior/inferior. Again. Thank you for the discussion.
 
Hell everyone & it's good to read such well balanced discussions on a topic that i can't even speak about to/with others in person. I would like to speak about my limited experience of african culture in terms of something most non-blacks wouldn't understand:"africans vs west indians".(Caribbean)
In britain there's this "hate-hate" thing going on rather than the love-hate one. You see i grew up almost exclusively around whites & when i started to come across more black kids in the 90's i found something strange.

Those that were of west indian(as it's called by them in uk) descent regularly made very derogatory comments about those who were of african descent(or those they assumed were so) almost all the time. Sometimes the white kids(was an all boy school i went to) would make comments about their physical features (skin tone etc) but it was mainly the black boys. Now they did this because they wrongly assumed that i was "one of them", i.e not african due to my features so i let them continue whilst i analyzed this behaviour.

Ever since then (1992 onwards) i've found this worsening. What did it for me in those the days were the london focused local media reporting that the trouble in london ("racial stereotyping/profilng) was due to "the black community". Yet most trouble i knew of were from those children of carribean descent with many not involved joking about seeing their freinds/associates on a crime bulletin show about drugs, kidnapping, murder rape you name it.
I'm new to using all these functions on web so excuse me while i make another post to conclude.
 
This african-west indian dichotomy reminds me of the north-south divide that's still there today in the uk which most non-whites wouldn't get- in the uk that is. My experiences with most black people both afro-caribbean has sadly been bad as each group attacks the other, both young & old. I also find far too many african men & women typically ghanain & nigerian really agressive in their actions. Their thought processes lets them & me down because it's so prejudicial against basically everyone. Arabs, jews, whites asians(as in india, pakistan) i have fond dreamy memories of nigeria when i was last there about 1983/4, the sunrise sunset, the early morning muslim call for prayers.

The market stalls & hustle-bustle, the luscious big back gardens, the great grandfathers telling stories & people still with respect. Now it seems to be gone & the aggressiveness.... well i've said this to plenty over the years in greater detail, black & white. I don't muck about with serious topics & i get on with most people which makes this worse. Some do agree with me but those people have neurons still firing. I wonder if some members have noticed this in uk or u.s.?
 
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