New vaccination requirements in Russia.

He said "do it" because previously he said "if you have to live". So it's pretty clear he was advocating life over death. Is that problem for you? You seem to make a habit out of nitpicking, being obtuse, and missing the obvious point. Is it on purpose?
Read again Joe what he wrote and what you wrote here that he said, you did not write write quite exactly what he wrote. However, I probably would not even write this much, but I was let's say a bit surprised that he wrote me this

Oh no you don't. You will NOT hold this forum or its administrators and moderators responsible for vaccine injuries and deaths.
I did not say that I hold him responsible.
Anyway there is also a possibility that they may order to take one vac. every week, that is like 52 a year, should we also accept that ? I mean were is the red line, what is the max amount to accept, and where to start refusing. Would you say accept as much as governments wants, if you need it to eat and drink, as long a majority of population is accepting ?


By the way, I do not want to tell anyone what to do, free choice .
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
But is there really "have to" when it comes to vaccines ? You do not have to do it, right ? Please brother find me a hypothetical situation where you have to ? It can happen that someone catches you and puts you in chains, and give it forcefully to you (hopefully it will not happen) and it that case there is not have to since they gave it to you, and no need for 'do it' since "they" are doing it. Also if someone alters your mind and force you to give to yourself, again is there need for 'have to' and 'do it', if you are not in control ?
I think you're dwelling in semantics, but I will humor you. What if someone found themselves in a situation where it's ether get the vaccine or not feed their children? Technically you don't have to, but your responsibilities would force it upon you. Do you see?
 
I think you're dwelling in semantics, but I will humor you. What if someone found themselves in a situation where it's ether get the vaccine or not feed their children? Technically you don't have to, but your responsibilities would force it upon you. Do you see?
They would not if they do not want, some people leave their children near the trash as babies, some do even worse things, and some in facilities for adoption. So there are different parents. But I am not recommending those of course.
 

mabar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The Orthodox Church, with all its problems, and President Putin, with all his problems, are the only forces in society consistently encouraging people to start large families. The abortion scourge has been greatly reduced at the very least.
Were now? ... It would have been nice if the pro-family forces would had stand up by their values, but just as the Vatican, they too are going down the vaccination lane.

As if they wouldn't not known about the shedding and risks and dangers of the jab, even though being the Sputnik one.

Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting, says Russian Orthodox Church

Those who refuse to be vaccinated against Covid-19 are committing a sin they will have to repent for the rest of their lives. That’s according to the Russian Orthodox Church, whose spokesman said rejecting a jab is selfish.
Speaking to TV channel Russia 24, the head of the Russia Orthodox Church’s Department for External Church Relations, Metropolitan Hilarion, explained that his parishioners regularly repent to him for not being vaccinated. They feel guilty because they passed the virus on to someone else who eventually died, he claimed.

“They come and say, ‘How am I supposed to live with this now?’ And it’s hard for even me to say how to live with it,” he explained. “All your life, you have to make up for the sin you committed.”
“The sin is thinking about yourself instead of thinking about other people,” the metropolitan said. “We are responsible – each of us – not only for ourselves and not only for our loved ones, but also for all those who come into contact with us.”

In recent months, the Church has been more vocal about its support for the government’s vaccination program. Metropolitan Hilarion has regularly spoken on TV about the need to follow the rules and take precautions to avoid infection. In June, the cleric revealed his “positive attitude” towards the government initiative to impose compulsory vaccination on those working in the service sector.

“Of course, it is desirable to observe the principle of voluntariness in relation to vaccinations – the principle that was stated from the very beginning,” he explained. “But there is also the principle of people’s responsibility for the lives of other people.”
...
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
They would not if they do not want, some people leave their children near the trash as babies, some do even worse things, and some in facilities for adoption. So there are different parents. But I am not recommending those of course.

I dare say you like being contrary for the sake of being contrary. So what can I say? some people have chosen responsibilities for which sacrificing some independence is worthwhile. And some, evidently, are incapable of such a nuance thinking process, and will always choose whatever they consider a victory.

We can dance around hypothetical scenarios until we dilute it to every individual situation, which I am not willing to do. However, Niall's words still apply as accurate. If you have to (because your conscience does not allow you to respond to life in any other way) then do it carefully.
 

Joe

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
They would not if they do not want, some people leave their children near the trash as babies, some do even worse things, and some in facilities for adoption. So there are different parents. But I am not recommending those of course.

What you are doing is being pedantic and contrary and therefore adding "noise" to this thread.
 
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Altair

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
My old school friend works in Moscow. He and all other employees in his company were said to get vaccination till Mid July otherwise they would get fired. He wanted to avoid it at all costs or at least try another Russian vaccine that supposed to be more benign but at the moment only Sputnik is available. Now he's going to get Sputnik jab (his job is very well paid and he doesn't want to lose it) and has to sign the document that he does it voluntarily.
 

Altair

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
My old school friend works in Moscow. He and all other employees in his company were said to get vaccination till Mid July otherwise they would get fired. He wanted to avoid it at all costs or at least try another Russian vaccine that supposed to be more benign but at the moment only Sputnik is available. Now he's going to get Sputnik jab (his job is very well paid and he doesn't want to lose it) and has to sign the document that he does it voluntarily.
On the other hand:

The penalty for refusal of mandatory vaccination of at least 60% of employees will be:

For individual entrepreneurs - 30-50 thousand rubles.
For organizations - 100-300 thousand rubles.
In case of repeated violation, an official will be fined 300-500 thousand rubles, a legal entity or individual entrepreneur will face a fine of 500 thousand to 1 million rubles, or suspension of work for three months.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
My old school friend works in Moscow. He and all other employees in his company were said to get vaccination till Mid July otherwise they would get fired. He wanted to avoid it at all costs or at least try another Russian vaccine that supposed to be more benign but at the moment only Sputnik is available. Now he's going to get Sputnik jab (his job is very well paid and he doesn't want to lose it) and has to sign the document that he does it voluntarily.
So much of the Putin, Trump etc..."champions" of the little people, it is all fine and dandy until your ass is on the line then it is all altogether different story.
 

Ant22

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
My old school friend works in Moscow. He and all other employees in his company were said to get vaccination till Mid July otherwise they would get fired. He wanted to avoid it at all costs or at least try another Russian vaccine that supposed to be more benign but at the moment only Sputnik is available. Now he's going to get Sputnik jab (his job is very well paid and he doesn't want to lose it) and has to sign the document that he does it voluntarily.

Wow, it looks like Russia has joined the bandwagon of lunatics on this one. Heck, even the psycho-run west doesn't do that so what on earth is going on in Russia? At this stage some professions do require jabs but it's openly stated that it's a workplace requirement and not a voluntary decision. I hope signing a document stating the jab is voluntary is something his workplace requires rather than it being the norm.

Healthcare, the public sector, and police force employees in Poland are told to sign a document that they won't seek compensation from the government if they suffer vaccine damage - even if the jab is voluntary.
 

dredger

Jedi Council Member
So much of the Putin, Trump etc..."champions" of the little people, it is all fine and dandy until your ass is on the line then it is all altogether different story
I was thinking about that the positin of Putin may be that he's hoping that the Russians will suffitiently contest so he can intervene. He demonstrated that he don't want (or he's not ready) to fight at the international level (vs big pharma), but on local one, on case by case almost, he could.
But we have to take into consideration that it's the russian vax, Sputnik V, which seems to be "not too dangerous", so i mean, Poutine can afford to say what he said as he knows that it does not harm his people. And this allows him to avoid the fight as wrote above.
A key information i would like to know is his position in regard of using the other vaccines in Russia ? If he's opposed this would give a good clue.

Let's see what he'll say and how he'll act during the coming weeks.
 

mabar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Wow, it looks like Russia has joined the bandwagon of lunatics on this one. Heck, even the psycho-run west doesn't do that so what on earth is going on in Russia? At this stage some professions do require jabs but it's openly stated that it's a workplace requirement and not a voluntary decision. I hope signing a document stating the jab is voluntary is something his workplace requires rather than it being the norm.

Healthcare, the public sector, and police force employees in Poland are told to sign a document that they won't seek compensation from the government if they suffer vaccine damage - even if the jab is voluntary.
Looks like it will be the norm sooner than expected. Very disconcerting what is happening.

The Mexican government start today to issue a vaccination certificates supposedly, for travelers to Europe and other countries can prove that they have already been vaccinated. Funny, I think it is no more than 20% of Mexicans who can travel abroad. But we know where this is going. It won't be long before they will require vaccination certificates at work, at the restaurant, etc.

"Voluntarily by force" is the new normality.
 

Joels

Padawan Learner
Recently, in C´s session there was importance of free will was discussed, as in the US elections: millions of decisions of the people who had voted were violated, in the same way the effect of imposing the Sputnik V vaccine on the population of Russia will have serious consequences in the future of this nation :I
 
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