New Show: MindMatters (RIP Truth Perspective)

Ennio

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Beyond that it is my assessment that "Imagine" is some fine multi-generational programming that might just be a bit of a trojan horse.

Anything's possible I suppose, but I simply think that the lyrics to 'Imagine' held very different meaning and intention for Lennon when he wrote them - than the 'One World Order' reading of it that is so often ascribed to it in some conspiracy circles in the last 20 years, and your interpretation here. Having said that, it would be derned interesting to know if your assessment is, in fact, correct given what we know about Laurel Canyon and other deep cultural and societal subversions - but for now I'm going with the position that what you wrote is an error in pattern recognition about this particular song that exists among a percentage of very open-minded and informed people.
 

Ennio

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The latest MindMatters show....

MindMatters: Follow the Science? A Peak Behind the Curtain of Institutional Science


How many scientists engage in unethical behavior? Does peer review even work? What is the reproducibility crisis? The "white hat" bias? Science has acquired a reputation of mythical proportions, but there are enough skeletons in the closet to warrant some skepticism about its many claims. At its best, science in an indispensable means of approaching truth, but at its worst it can be shortsighted and even just plain wrong.

Today on MindMatters we read some excerpts from Iain McGilchrist's recent book The Matter with Things on the nature of institutional science, with a case study on one of its worst offenders: public health.


 

Jones

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Am reading that chapter now so it was also good to listen to the discussion, thanks MindMatters crew!

One thing that occurs as I read this book is that LH also seems to describe predators mind and to flesh it out into much more detail than what Castaneda did. If that's anywhere near the truth then then the book is very helpful from that angle too.

Looking forward to more discussions.
 
They played some version of "Imagine" at the Olympics opening ceremony. It sounded to me like the WEF Christmas wishlist. It was a savvy bit of marketing by China embracing this pop anthem loved by "Westerners" everywhere. Beyond that it is my assessment that "Imagine" is some fine multi-generational programming that might just be a bit of a trojan horse.

Imagine there's no heaven
(nothing higher to strive for - no better or other place than 3D - no higher Christ self)

It's easy if you try No hell below us
(No karma, no consequences - do what thou wilt - and we will do what we want to you! - Crowley all the way)

Above us only sky
(strict materialism - nothing beyond - a vacuum with no higher densities)

Imagine all the people Living for today...
(live in the moment, don't think, just be - you too can be an NPC zombie - there is nothing beyond this existence - have some potato chips!)

Imagine there's no countries
(totally a WEF one world technocratic wet dream!)

It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for
(yes, a nihilistic la la land where nothing really matters - except your acquiescence to the one state, of course)

And no religion, too
(By all means, throw morality, societal boundaries, and theology out the window!)

Imagine all the people Living life in peace...
(hooked up to the Metaverse of course)

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one
(Klaus Schwab, Greta, Goldman Sachs, Pfizer, Nike and the rest of the gang too!)

I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one
(join the Borg collective! It will be great! Lay down your striving, comrade, you are a drop in the ocean.)

Imagine no possessions
(You'll own nothing and be happy - where have i heard that before?)

I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger
(no possessions and you'll get limitless protoplastic bug burgers)

A brotherhood of man
(this line needs to be updated! SO un-woke!!!)

etc.....

So my main point is this:

Music is powerful. It is magic. It can sound like one thing but have quite a different intent, effect and meaning.

The words to "Imagine" can indeed sound like a wonderful bunch of ideas and images stitched together. The music taps into our hearts longing for a better world.

But, do recall that Ulysses had to be firmly lashed to the mast to listen to the Siren Song and not be swept away by the sweet sound that was quite destructive none the less.

Bonus Material:

Incidentally, Pop Music has been co-opted and promoted as some sort of touching human anthem/marketing tool by corporate manipulators for decades.

Cisco Sytems

Nike

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Now there is nothing wrong with making a few bucks, I know... but, was this sell out really necessary? Put them on a pedestal? Sure. Just not maybe the highest one. And don't forget George Martin who "may" have had more to do with the Beatles sound and "genius" than he gets credit for.
I think you have bought up some interesting points. I still love many Beatles songs, but after learning about the Laurel Canyon group I started thinking about my 'feelings' when I first heard the Beatles music. It's almost like the world shifted out from under me. It was very noticeable in myself and many others at the time. I did some research and did find out that they may have had some connections to the Tavistock Institute. The Institute was in Germany when the Beatles were there at the beginning of their career and that time seems to have influenced them a great deal. That is where they adopted their new haircuts which definitely had an impact on society at the time.

I still think they were very talented and creative musicians and I think they were perfect for their time, but as to how much they were manipulated and controlled I really can't say. And this may be making a mountain out of a molehill but worth mentioning I think.

 

Hi_Henry

The Living Force
I think you have bought up some interesting points. I still love many Beatles songs, but after learning about the Laurel Canyon group I started thinking about my 'feelings' when I first heard the Beatles music.
Neil Young's involvement in attacking Joe Rogan reawakened my interest in Laurel Canyon. I found the subject worth the time to explore in the past but have now looked at it again.

Quentin Tarantino no less for some interesting reasons I'm sure, brought the subject up in a sneaky way with his movie "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood". Why ?

Question: Why after so many years was Polanski hounded about a matter that even the victim forgave him for ?

Beatles are still one of my favorite bands ;-D

 

gottathink

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I was disappointed with the end of this episode. I would like to point out that people do not actually always notice thirst or drink when they are thirsty. Elderly people will often become dehydrated from not drinking. They do this to avoid having to use the toilet, kids and people engrossed in work will ignore their feelings of thirst. So it is important to note your own fluid intake, because people do become chronically dehydrated. For example, dehydration is very problematic when people are on medications and they can develop liver toxicity.
 

Chad

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Approaching Infinity

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I was disappointed with the end of this episode. I would like to point out that people do not actually always notice thirst or drink when they are thirsty. Elderly people will often become dehydrated from not drinking. They do this to avoid having to use the toilet, kids and people engrossed in work will ignore their feelings of thirst. So it is important to note your own fluid intake, because people do become chronically dehydrated. For example, dehydration is very problematic when people are on medications and they can develop liver toxicity.
Fair point. Thanks for bringing it up! The discussion in the context was in the context of marketing bottled water. It would have been better for us to frame it in the context of the majority of people who do not need to count the number of glasses of water they drink. It's a one-size-fits-all 'public health' policy (really a corporate policy) that probably should best be treated, like most things, on an individual basis.
 

gottathink

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Fair point. Thanks for bringing it up! The discussion in the context was in the context of marketing bottled water. It would have been better for us to frame it in the context of the majority of people who do not need to count the number of glasses of water they drink. It's a one-size-fits-all 'public health' policy (really a corporate policy) that probably should best be treated, like most things, on an individual basis.
Exactly, I understand the intent of the discussion but the point being made was poorly argued and inaccurate. Just a bit sloppy.
 

Possibility of Being

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They played some version of "Imagine" at the Olympics opening ceremony. It sounded to me like the WEF Christmas wishlist. It was a savvy bit of marketing by China embracing this pop anthem loved by "Westerners" everywhere. Beyond that it is my assessment that "Imagine" is some fine multi-generational programming that might just be a bit of a trojan horse.

Maybe pre-planned, maybe not. Such were sentiments back in the 1970's especially within the counterculture. Idealistic. Leftist. Anarchistic. Utopian. Definitely emotional and not thought through. Helped by alphabet soup agencies - something that we know now but back then very few knew.

Over 10 years ago, Jordan Peterson wrote the below for National Post:


Apr 05, 2011
By Jordan B. Peterson

‘God is dead,” proclaimed Nietzsche, shockingly, in 1882. During the 20th century, the West became increasingly receptive to such a message. By 1971, John Lennon could Imagine that “no religion” was a precondition for world harmony.

But what did he mean by “no religion,” anyway? No religious institutions? Everyone but the personality-disordered anarchist understands that institutions are necessary.

No religious experience? Lennon constantly sought religious experience, through mysticism and psychedelic drug use.

No beliefs, of ultimate value? But Imagine claims that peace, brotherhood and unity are of ultimate worth, and that a heavenly utopia would arise, if they were properly valued. Lennon’s beautiful song is, therefore, conceptually incoherent. Its lyrics also expose a lack of appropriate humility: How dare a multimillionaire satirize those who cannot imagine “no possessions?”

What about “no hell below us?” Nietzsche knew that the murder of God meant trouble. He predicted a tremendous expenditure of lives, in consequence. “Who will wipe this blood off us?” Nietzsche asked. He who declared the dissolution of the sacred also foresaw the hell forged by Mao, Stalin and Hitler. Nietzsche knew that brutal pretenders would emerge to claim the abandoned throne of God.

If there are no sacred values, man is a blank slate. Anything whatsoever can be written on a blank slate. If there is a universal human nature, however, some ideas are wrong, and their implementation will result in catastrophe. The evidence is before us, in the form of the millions who were sacrificed to the values of 20th century totalitarians. Everything cannot be simply questioned and re-organized, in a purely rational matter. Thought itself must have its master.

So what, at minimum, defines the value of the human? Analysis of religious belief and evolutionary neuroscience alike has led me to conclude that three figures must remain sacred, if humanity is to flourish.

Because we are mammals, the first sacred figure is maternal. The neurobiologist Jaak Panksepp has identified several sets of neurological pathways, common to mammals. One of those is the “CARE” system. It manifests itself to our imagination as the loving and feminine source of life. Images of the sacred Mother of God, often with her Holy Infant, are figural representations of that source. To doubt the significance of the CARE system means to doubt not only the human, but the very mammalian.

Because we are social mammals, the second figure is paternal. Our ancestors clambered up the dominance hierarchy, the most ancient and persistent of social structures. Those who succeeded found secure niches and high-quality mates. Under such conditions they thrived, and so did their descendants. The figure of the Father represents this hierarchical order, which formed us, body and mind, and which even today provides us with structure and hope. For us to survive, such order must survive, even though it must also sometimes change.

Because we are self-conscious social mammals, the third figure is the individual, the mythical hero, burdened by his mortal limitations. The hero extends himself beyond the safe confines of mother and society alike, voluntarily encountering the chaotic unknown, gathering new knowledge, shaping and updating the social order. The ancient Mesopotamians knew this mythical individual as Marduk. The Egyptians knew him as Horus. For billions of modern people, the sacred individual is Christ.

A psychologist, or even a biologist, might ask: What do these heroes represent? As the holy Word of God, for example, “there in the beginning,” Christ appears to represent suffering, individual consciousness, and its incomprehensible ability to mediate between the chaos and order of being. In the book of Genesis, God creates men and women in the image of this creative Word, imbuing them with the ultimate value due shapers and creators of the cosmos.

The story of Genesis has profoundly influenced the West, on a scale unmatched even by the Enlightenment. In consequence, our culture values the individual, in a manner still unrealized in the rest of the world. In the West, even prostitutes, traitors, and murderers have inalienable, sacred rights. It is our attribution of ultimate, creative value to the individual that allows us to demand personal responsibility, and to reward personal accomplishment in the many ways that keep our tragic lives bearable, here, in the West.

What, therefore, must be sacred, at minimum? The Mother, the Father, and the Individual. It is the duty of each society, and each individual, to respect these figures, in mind, thought, and action. When this is done properly, the great forces of being are kept in equilibrium, and the individual, society, and nature all thrive. Otherwise, hell breaks loose, and swallows the little heavens that could otherwise be found on earth.
 

Ennio

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On this most recent show, we got a chance to revisit the thoughts and ideas of philosopher R.G. Collingwood, and to welcome the newest mind to join the MindMatters program :grad:

MindMatters: R.G. Collingwood - The Forgotten Philosopher


Primarily known for his philosophy of history, British philosopher R.G. Collingwood's life was cut short in 1943 at the age of 53. As Ray Monk puts it, his replacement by Gilbert Ryle "changed the course of philosophy forever," and it in a good way. Collingwood's clear, expansive, and incisive style was replaced by the ratiocentric style of the analytic philosophers. But despite his lack of popularity today, Collingwood's works remain a source of profound insight and clear thought. From history and aesthetics, to metaphysics, religion, and political theory, Collingwood was one of the twentieth century's great thinkers, and today, to discuss his life and work (including his classic Autobiography), we are joined by the newest member of the MindMatters team, Lucien Koch.


 

Magnolia

Padawan Learner
Thank you for the R.G. Collingwood video. His way of looking at things instantaneously shattered some foundations of my thinking, and clarified some dilemmas I face in trying to negotiate the world, which sometimes strikes me as “Mad Magazine” made manifest.

Collingwood presents a “radical iconoclastic-ism.” My exposure to just a few of his thoughts in a brief 1.3 hour presentation has revealed the faulty foundation (“the man behind the curtain”) of a lot of my ‘education/indoctrination’ as well as my ‘independent’ thinking. Even this brief exposure to Collingwood makes me feel as though I’ve entered a maelstrom – a welcome maelstrom for sure – liberating, uplifting – though my head hurts. So I purchased a couple of his books on line and checked out some additional articles on Sott.

Collingwood asks, “What are the presuppositions that govern our thinking about things?” I sense this question is vital and earth-shattering –though I just heard it. It can change how one perceives everything – and I figure that awareness, thought, seeing and understanding are intricately intertwined in a way ‘The Matrix’ touches on when the child monk says, “Do not try and bend the spoon – that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth……..There is no spoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.”

Many, many ideas crossed my mind while watching the video. For example, I have been taught explicitly that there is “Life” and there is “Death” and never the twain shall meet. But what if I were to ask, “What are the presuppositions that govern thinking about this matter?” I can’t pinpoint them specifically yet, but I can see at least a presupposition of a distinct dichotomy between the two – Life and Death are presented as black/white, on/off, good/evil. What if this dichotomy were a faulty presupposition? What if there is neither life nor death, but simply a continuum of existence, as Bhagavad Gita says, “You are never born, never dying; nor having once existed, can cease to be.” Truly understanding that – Realizing that – could change everything; it could eradicate the underlying existential dread that fuels so much fear and limitation. AND, what if other dualities that serve as foundations for my thinking were eliminated as merely fictitious constructs? What would remain -- or replace them? Certainly something quite different from what I’ve been taught. Something closer to Truth, perhaps?

And briefly……two additional statements grabbed me: “A logic in which the answers are attended to and the questions neglected is a false logic.” “In Collingwood’s view, no two propositions can contradict one another unless they are answers to the same question.” Well, well, well. How about them apples? I won’t even begin to express the light these proposals have shed on just about every conversation I've had in the past 5 years. It’s mind-boggling. I could go on and on, but I don't know anything yet. I need to study.
Thanks so much!!
 

Ennio

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We hope everyone enjoys this week's MindMatters when we got a chance to discuss the likely thinking errors, limiting types of thinking, and extremely narrow world views of some rather well known philosophers:

MindMatters: Schizo-autistic Philosophy, Ponerology and the Deranged View of Humanity


Many of our most basic assumptions about life, values and reality itself come to us from the thinking and writing of some of our best known philosophers. But what if some of those leading figures were only ever capable of understanding reality with what Andrew M. Lobaczewski called a schizoidally impoverished worldview, or what Ian McGilchirst calls a left-hemisphere-dominant mode of cognition? How would we even know? What may be some of the signs to look for? And what are the implications for a largely unsuspecting society that eats, breathes and lives in such a psychological environment?

Today on MindMatters we discus the "schizo-autistic" worldview - hyper-rational, cynical, detached, technocratic - its flaws, and how it has dominated the intellectual life of humanity for at least the past 200 years. From Descartes and Kant to Freud, Marx and Ryle, this style of thinking has its uses, but can never provide an adequate picture of reality and how to act within it. If that isn't enough to burst your bubble of illusions, we also discuss Machiavelli and what he may actually have achieved in bringing to light the true intentions, workings and dynamics of the political class.


 

Voyageur

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We hope everyone enjoys this week's MindMatters when we got a chance to discuss the likely thinking errors, limiting types of thinking, and extremely narrow world views of some rather well known philosophers:
...we also discuss Machiavelli.

With the opening question (Harrison asked it of Machiavelli), that is how I had seen his work - it seemed to be a road map of yup, this is what they are like, this is how they think and do things. He had laid it all out bare to the bone.

Great discussion on Collingwood from the prior show, too.

Welcome to the show, Lucien. :welcome: Nice addition!
 
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