Metformin or Berberine - For what conditions?

I've been taking Berberine recently as it was suggested to me by a practitioner to improve lung function, which it has been doing pretty effectively. I've had lung mucous for a long time and it's been quite mysterious, although I have suspected that it was caused by a fungus of some type (a yeast more specifically is what I was thinking). It's a little early, but the Berberine does appear to be tentatively helping with that.

In that vein, I was looking around to see if Berberine has antifungal properties and it appears that it does:

Berberine Antifungal Activity in Fluconazole-Resistant Pathogenic Yeasts: Action Mechanism Evaluated by Flow Cytometry and Biofilm Growth Inhibition in Candida spp.

Berberine is a protoberberine-type isoquinoline alkaloid isolated from the roots, rhizomes, and stem bark of natural herbs, such as Berberis aquifolium, Berberis vulgaris, Berberis aristata, and Hydrastis canadensis, and of Phellodendron amurense. Berberine has been proven to have broad antibacterial and antifungal activity. In the present study, the potential antifungal effect of berberine against fluconazole-resistant Candida and Cryptococcus neoformans strains, as well as against the biofilm form of Candidaspp., was assessed. The antifungal effect of berberine was determined by a broth microdilution method (the M27-A3 method of the Clinical and Laboratory Standards Institute) and flow cytometry techniques, in which the probable mechanism of action of the compound was also assessed. For biofilm assessment, a colorimetric 3-(4,5-dimethyl-2-thiazolyl)-2,5-diphenyl-2H-tetrazolium bromide (MTT) assay was used to determine the susceptibility of sessile cells. The isolates used in the study belonged to the Laboratory of Bioprospection and Experiments in Yeast (LABEL) of the Federal University of Ceará. After 24 and 72 h, fluconazole-resistant Candida and Cryptococcus neoformans strains showed berberine MICs equal to 8 μg/ml and 16 μg/ml, respectively. Cytometric analysis showed that treatment with berberine caused alterations to the integrity of the plasma and mitochondrial membranes and DNA damage, which led to cell death, probably by apoptosis. Assessment of biofilm-forming isolates after treatment showed statistically significant reductions in biofilm cell activity (P < 0.001).
 
I took Berberine for quite a while and noticed absolutely nothing different both while taking it and after stopping it. But, that's usually how things work for me. fwiw
 
It's interesting to note how many beneficial properties Berberine has! Since I work night shifts and have a hectic schedule in general, I've decided to try it out in order to see if it makes any difference. Will see how it goes.
 
Yesterday I bought a metformin in a local pharmacy. I took a pack of 30 pills from 500 mg.
Yesterday I took only a 250 mg once a day so I can see if there are some side effects. Nothing happened.
Today I will take 3 times the dose of 250 mg( half a pill )
In the next few days, I will gradually increase the dose until I get to 1000 mg a day( 2 pills)

I will report here how it is going.

I just wonder how is metformin going with iodine.
From next week I plan to start again the iodine after a 2-week pause. Or maybe it is a better idea to stay little more off iodine until I finish the 30 pill box of metformin and then after a few days to start again with iodine gradually.
 
Yesterday I bought a metformin in a local pharmacy. I took a pack of 30 pills from 500 mg.
Yesterday I took only a 250 mg once a day so I can see if there are some side effects. Nothing happened.
Today I will take 3 times the dose of 250 mg( half a pill )
In the next few days, I will gradually increase the dose until I get to 1000 mg a day( 2 pills)

Are you sure about these dosages? From what I heard from the local doctor, you are supposed to increase it way more gradually than that. It's something like:
250mg for one week
500mg for 2 weeks
1000mg for 2 months

I can't remember exactly, though.
 
Are you sure about these dosages? From what I heard from the local doctor, you are supposed to increase it way more gradually than that. It's something like:
250mg for one week
500mg for 2 weeks
1000mg for 2 months

I can't remember exactly, though.
I didn't know that. I read about the dosage online and in the paper that came with metformin. All I could read was that the min dosage was 500 mg and that the usual dose is 1000-1500 mg per day.
I was told the same from the pharmacist when I bought metformin yesterday.

It better to be precautious. I will go more gradually. like 250 mg for the first week. At this moment I really don't like any strong side effects.

Thank you so much, Chu.

I am still trying to find some information about the interaction between Lugols and Metformin and any unwanted side effects from that.
All I found is that there can be a very bad interaction between Metformin and Iodinated contrast materials used in medical procedures.

Medical warning:
Serious. These medicines may interact and cause very harmful effects. Contact your healthcare professional (e.g. doctor or pharmacist) for more information.
How the interaction occurs:
If you are taking metformin when you have your imaging test procedure, your kidneys may not be able to properly remove metformin from your blood.
What might happen:
The effects of metformin may increase and cause a serious condition called lactic acidosis, especially if you have kidney problems. Symptoms of lactic acidosis are: feeling very weak, tired, or uncomfortable, unusual muscle pain, trouble breathing, unusual or unexpected stomach discomfort, feeling cold, dizziness or lightheadedness, suddenly developing a slow or irregular heartbeat.
What you should do about this interaction:
Contact your doctor about taking these two medicines together before you have any tests done that use an iodine dye. Your doctor may want to check to make sure your kidneys are working properly before and after the imaging test. In some cases, your doctor may instruct you to stop taking your metformin before the exam and not to begin using it again until 48 hours after your test.Your healthcare professionals (e.g. doctor or pharmacist) may already be aware of this drug interaction and may be monitoring you for it. Do not start, stop, or change the dosage of any medicine before checking with them first.

I would like to hear if someone is having any experience taking metformin and iodine together.

Until I have more info about this, it's better to not take them together.
 
I would like to hear if someone is having any experience taking metformin and iodine together.

The precaution is only valid with contrast iodine for CT scans because of the risk of lactic acidosis. These are patients who usually have heart failure and some kidney failure. In this case, contrast media will increase the likelihood of lactic acidosis in a diabetic person with heart failure using metformin. It is even rare within that context, but there has been cases of uncontrolled lactic acidosis in patients that were very ill (not the average person).

It should be okay with lugol. Metformin doses variate. The longevity people are titrating doses, but targeting the dose to one pill a day might be good enough.

Metformin lowers B12 levels, so you might want to consider supplementing that, specially if you get a mild laxative effect with metformin.
 
The precaution is only valid with contrast iodine for CT scans because of the risk of lactic acidosis. These are patients who usually have heart failure and some kidney failure. In this case, contrast media will increase the likelihood of lactic acidosis in a diabetic person with heart failure using metformin. It is even rare within that context, but there has been cases of uncontrolled lactic acidosis in patients that were very ill (not the average person).

It should be okay with lugol. Metformin doses variate. The longevity people are titrating doses, but targeting the dose to one pill a day might be good enough.

Metformin lowers B12 levels, so you might want to consider supplementing that, specially if you get a mild laxative effect with metformin.
Thank you, Gaby.

Well then for the first week I will go with 250 mg of Metformin with the last meal of the day ( around 6 p.m).
The second week I will increase the dosage to one pill ( 500 mg ) if everything is ok and go with that until I finish the box.
I will restart Lugols gradually from the next week in the morning after breakfast as usual. And I will add B12 ( methylcobalamin ) and Niacin to the supplement list. Right now I taking Fish oil, D3, VitC and Selenium as a supplement.
 
I have been on Metformin for almost six months for diabetes type 2. I started out with 2 500mg pills a day - one in the morning and one at night. Later, it was increased to 1000mg in the morning and night.

I was told that it had a appetite suppressing effect and it sure seems to work, as I have lost most of my fat. I changed my diet a little, but it is mostly in portion size and a strict adherence to meal times.

So now my blood sugar is normal and I'm more active and feeling healthier, and I credit Metformin as it is the one med that I have been on since being diagnosed, with insulin being stopped a couple months after, and Victoza being used after insulin.

I can't say I really had any negative effects, but I always take calcium tablets for upset stomach, since I like spicey foods, plus I have vitamin D deficiency and calcium helps with that.
 
I was on Metformin for one month. I started with 250mg for a first few days and then I increased to 500mg ( one pill ) once a day.
I finished the whole box. While I was on metformin I was on a strict Keto diet, with almost zero carbs. the only carb that I eat was a vegetable salad with the second meal. I had ( and I will have in the future) only 2 meals per day. I found that 2 meals per day is perfect for me and the last 2 years I go with that plan. One at 8 am before going to work and one at 6 pm after coming home. I had the metformin pill with the second meal.
Nothing in between.

I was supplementing with B-complex and with extra B12( methylcobalamin ) and extra B3( niacin )
This was my first time supplementing with niacin. Before , I was using niacinamide. I took only 25 mg first time and it was such a big flush that I had to open the window so the cold air can blow in my face and every few minutes I was washing my face with cold water and go to the window to cool even more.:-).
Now I have just a minor flush from 50mg.

The first week I noticed an only sudden change in my mood. An hour or so after a metformin pill my mood will go up and improve.
During the next 3 weeks, my mood started to swing up and down.
The third week I felt such a depression for a few days that all I wanted to do was to go to bed and sleep.
Finally last week I decided to increase the Iodine dosage for one drop more. I increased it from 2 drops to 3 drops of 10% Lugols and the next day I felt an enormous increase in energy level and my mood became much better.

Another unwanted side effect probably from metformin was constipation that I've got. I never had problems with that. The only new thing that I introduce to my body was the metformin. The strict keto diet probably helped with this.

I will stay out of metformin for a week or so and then I will make a blood test so I could compare results before and after metformin.
Then I will decide if I will go with another round of metformin or not. I will still try to eat a keto diet but will include little more vegetable salads( complex carbs ) with the second meal and see how will my guts react to this.

From my previous experiences, I never had this kind of problems even with almost zero carbs. This time something is different.
 
I've been taking Berberine recently as it was suggested to me by a practitioner to improve lung function, which it has been doing pretty effectively. I've had lung mucous for a long time and it's been quite mysterious, although I have suspected that it was caused by a fungus of some type (a yeast more specifically is what I was thinking). It's a little early, but the Berberine does appear to be tentatively helping with that.

In that vein, I was looking around to see if Berberine has antifungal properties and it appears that it does:

Yes, it appears that berberine does have antifungal properties, although some studies show that it can do it alone, while others show that it can only do it in combination with other antifungals.

Here are some more studies:

Requirement for Ergosterol in Berberine Tolerance Underlies Synergism of Fluconazole and Berberine against Fluconazole-Resistant Candida albicans Isolates
Antiproliferation of Berberine in Combination with Fluconazole from the Perspectives of Reactive Oxygen Species, Ergosterol and Drug Efflux in a Fluconazole-Resistant Candida tropicalis Isolate
 
Recently I've read an article that talks about how out gut bacteria can influence the drugs that we take, which can be a bad thing, because what works in a laboratory might not work in a human body. However, the opposite can also be true, such as the case with berberine, for which the scientists say that it has a very poor bioavalability. But that doesn't seem to be the case, as these two studies show:


Berberine (BBR) has been confirmed to have multiple bioactivities in clinic, such as cholesterol-lowering, anti-diabetes, cardiovascular protection and anti- inflammation. However, BBR’s plasma level is very low; it cannot explain its pharmacological effects in patients. We consider that the in vivo distribution of BBR as well as of its bioactive metabolites might provide part of the explanation for this question. In this study, liquid chromatography coupled to ion trap time-of-flight mass spectrometry (LC/MSn-IT-TOF) as well as liquid chromatography that coupled with tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) was used for the study of tissue distribution and pharmacokinetics of BBR in rats after oral administration (200 mg/kg). The results indicated that BBR was quickly distributed in the liver, kidneys, muscle, lungs, brain, heart, pancreas and fat in a descending order of its amount. The pharmacokinetic profile indicated that BBR’s level in most of studied tissues was higher (or much higher) than that in plasma 4 h after administration. BBR remained relatively stable in the tissues like liver, heart, brain, muscle, pancreas etc. Organ distribution of BBR’s metabolites was also investigated paralleled with that of BBR. Thalifendine (M1), berberrubine (M2) and jatrorrhizine (M4), which the metabolites with moderate bioactivity, were easily detected in organs like the liver and kidney. For instance, M1, M2 and M4 were the major metabolites in the liver, among which the percentage of M2 was up to 65.1%; the level of AUC (0-t) (area under the concentration-time curve) for BBR or the metabolites in the liver was 10-fold or 30-fold higher than that in plasma, respectively. In summary, the organ concentration of BBR (as well as its bioactive metabolites) was higher than its concentration in the blood after oral administration. It might explain BBR’s pharmacological effects on human diseases in clinic.

 
I've come across an article regarding the use berberine for diabetes and other conditions and thought I'd post it here:


Here is an excerpt:

Berberine for Type 2 Diabetes Shown to be as Effective as Diabetes Medication

There are a few natural solutions to helping to treat type 2 diabetes, and berberine is one that has a strong background of being especially effective for type 2 diabetes.

Berberine is a powerful plant extract with several impressive health benefits. It can effectively lower blood sugar, help with weight loss and improve heart health—two things that most pharmaceutical diabetic medications cannot do. It is also anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial and is effective against diarrhea, intestinal parasites, Candida albicans, and possibly Methicillin-resistant staph aureus.

Berberine works to:
  • Decrease insulin resistance, making the blood sugar lowering hormone insulin more effective.
  • Increase glycolysis, the breakdown of glucose inside cells.
  • Decrease glucose production in the liver.
  • Slow the digestion of carbohydrates.
  • Increase the number of beneficial bacteria in the gut.
Berberine is a bioactive plant extract that comes from several different types of plants, including goldthread, Oregon grape root, barberry, tree turmeric and goldenseal. It has been used in both Ayruvedic and Chinese medicine for more than 2500 years and is now being used and studied extensively in the modern world.

Several impressive studies show that berberine can lower blood glucose as effectively as the drug metformin, without the negative side effects. Two of the best-known peer-reviewed studies published in the journals Metabolism and the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology compared berberine in one group to metformin (Glucophage) in another group. The berberine group had very similar blood sugar-lowering effects as the metformin group. In addition, the berberine also effectively reduced the patients’ A1C, triglycerides, LDL cholesterol, and blood pressure… Three things that metformin cannot do!
  • Hemoglobin A1c decreased from 9.5% to 7.5% (about a 21% reduction)
  • Fasting blood glucose (FBG) decreased from 190.8 to 124.2 mg/dl
  • Postprandial blood glucose (PBG) decreased from 356.4 to 199.8 mg/dl
  • Triglycerides from 100.5 to 79.2 mg/dl
Berberine works by stimulating uptake of glucose into the cells, improves insulin sensitivity, and reducing glucose production in the liver. This review published in the International Journal of Endocrinology further expanded on berberine’s role in treating type diabetes:

“BBR [berberine] is used to treat diabetic nephropathy (DPN), diabetic neuropathy (DN), and diabetic cardiomyopathy due to its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activities.”

How does berberine work?

Berberine works by activating a metabolism-regulating enzyme within the body’s cells called AMPK (adenosine monophosphate activated protein kinase). Yes, that’s a mouthful! AMPK regulates a variety of biological activities that normalize lipid, glucose, and energy imbalances. Think of AMPK as your metabolic master switch. Definitely something you want to keep switched to ‘ON’!

Metabolic syndrome, a precursor to diabetes, occurs when these AMPK pathways are switched off. This triggers high blood sugar, high cholesterol, high triglycerides and energy issues. AMPK shifts energy to cellular repair and maintenance. Activating AMPK produces similar benefits for diabetes and metabolic syndrome as exercise, dieting and weight loss.

Berberine and Weight Loss

When overweight adults took 500mg of berberine 3 times daily for 12 weeks, they easily lost an average of 5 pounds. The researchers note that,

“…berberine has potential clinical application in reducing visceral fat and controlling obesity.”

Berberine has the ability to inhibit fat storage and also improves insulin function, leptin and adiponectin. Leptin is a very powerful hormone produced by fat cells. It tells your brain whether you should eat or not. Leptin is the way your fat cells speak to your brain. If Leptin signaling is working, when fat stores are full, they cause a surge in leptin which tells your brain to stop eating and storing fat. The problem is of course, when this signaling goes awry, it causes excessive eating and fat storage.

Adonipectin is a hormone secreted by fat cells that helps control glucose regulation and fatty acid oxidation. Obese people are often low in adonipectin, but berberine helps to increase adonipectin which helps to normalize metabolic function.

So, the bottom line here is that berberine could reduce the size of your fat cells and cut down on the number of them as well.

Berberine is also thought to enhance brown fat, which is a heat-generating special type of fat that burns energy instead of storing it. It is loaded with active mitochondria cells that convert this fat into energy which produces heat. This animal study shows how berberine increases energy expenditure, helps burn fat, improves cold tolerance and enhances active brown adipose tissue.

Berberine for Memory and Cognitive Function

Blood sugar levels, insulin sensitivity and diabetes go hand in hand with memory and cognitive dysfunction. In fact, it is now thought that high blood sugar and diabetes are connected to an increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease. Berberine has been found to enhance memory function in some animal studies, by preserving a brain chemical, acetylcholine, that is important for memory, focus and cognition. The result for berberine was improved learning and memory, along with lower oxidative stress.

How to take Berberine

According to Dr. Josh Axe, berberine should be taken two to three times a day. Generally, most studies have used safe dosages starting at 500 mg a dose. So, 500 mg two to three times a day is a good place to start. Take berberine with a meal or on a full stomach to avoid any stomach upset and to take advantage of the post meal glucose and lipid spike that often occurs. It is best to start with just one dose/day and increase slowly to ensure they can stay in control.

When you take berberine, please note that insulin may need to be cut back significantly, so monitor blood sugar frequently. Many diabetics have been able to totally stop their other pharmaceutical diabetes medications, with the inclusion of berberine. Be sure to monitor blood sugar regularly and consult your physician. Look for a berberine product with a standardized berberine extract so that the dosages and strength are consistent.

Berberine Side Effects

If you have a medical condition or are on any medications, including antibiotics, then it is highly recommended that you speak to your doctor. This is especially important if you are currently taking blood sugar-lowering medications, so that your physician can monitor your blood sugar and current medication levels.

Diabetics who are using other medications must use caution when using this supplement to avoid dangerously low blood sugar levels. People with low blood pressure should also be careful when using it since it can naturally lower blood pressure. Pregnant and nursing women should not take berberine.

Overall, this natural compound has an outstanding safety profile. Primary side effects are minor, but could result in some cramping, diarrhea, flatulence, constipation or mild stomach pain. Stay with the smaller dosages — spread out through your day and after meals — to avoid most of these side effects.

In addition to its huge benefits for diabetes, berberine is helpful for other health issues as well including:
  • Anti-aging
  • Gastrointestinal infections
  • Heart disease
  • High cholesterol
  • Hypertension (high blood pressure)
  • Immune challenges
  • Joint problems
  • Low bone density
 
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