Let's talk about Taiwan

[Viktor]

Recently I posted a question about China, I realized many (but not all) are somewhat apologetic about China.

There is a fact I want to share: the Taiwanese are clearly against being absorbed by China.

I met many Taiwanese while I lived in Canada. I used to think the Taiwanese will to independence as something exaggerated by the media. But ALL the ones I met told me they prefered staying independent.
If you doubt it, you can try talking to a Taiwanese online and ask him. I bet he will say the same.

 

[iamthatis]

Recently I posted a question about China, I realized many (but not all) are somewhat apologetic about China.

There is a fact I want to share: the Taiwanese are clearly against being absorbed by China.

I met many Taiwanese while I lived in Canada. I used to think the Taiwanese will to independence as something exaggerated by the media. But ALL the ones I met told me they prefered staying independent.
If you doubt it, you can try talking to a Taiwanese online and ask him. I bet he will say the same.

I don't think it's true that the Taiwanese are clearly against reunification. That is the favourite deep state message of the day, tho. The Taiwanese independence movement is largely a product of the CIA with the aim of destabilizing China to preserve the mafia-like control over the world. Just like Ukraine was programmed to be a gun at the head of Russia.

It may be the case that the people you spoke to are against China, but as Gurdjieff said, most people are asleep and aren't capable of formulating their own thoughts about anything in their lives. Building on that, we're way beyond what was happening in his time in that we live in a time of increasing brainwashing, as indicated by the C's phrase 'programming is complete'. 4D STS has installed whatever BS they can to keep people in low frequency to cause suffering and be controlled in 4D after the wave. That means basically instilling the people with as many lies as possible. In the case of Taiwan, we can factor in decades of CIA brainwashing.

There are other examples. Billions of people around the world bought the covid narrative, and took the bioweapon into their bodies, and suffered the consequences. There are also plenty of people who think it's just fine to let their kids take chemical castration hormone blockers and go to a drag show story hour. Some think that eating bugs will change the weather. Ukrainians were indoctrinated into neo-Nazism. So just because people prefer something or formulate a fixed opinion doesn't really mean much on this planet. What makes something meaningful is if it is grounded in the truth IMO.

I mentioned in the other thread that the search bar is your friend. You can find lots of info the forum on China and Taiwan here:

Is China Preparing a 'Special Military Operation' In Taiwan?

It would appear that China is making moves similar to Russia prior to the intervention in Ukraine. The legal language adopted by the CCP is eerily similar, for example, using the term 'special military operations' or 'military operations other than war'. Not all signed resolutions have been made...

cassiopaea.org

BRICS: Laying the Foundations of the Next Empire?

I've been following the activities of the BRICS block quite closely over the past year and while the US empire is failing, the BRICS countries are building solid foundations to take over their spot. A really interesting article was posted on Sott yesterday...

cassiopaea.org

Pro-China bias?

While we may all generally agree that the USA is the world’s number one rogue state, acting all over the globe to promote the interests of its elite, or the 0.1%ers, I think this could sometimes lead into US-centric way of interpreting the world. I bring this up on the forum here after seeing a...

cassiopaea.org

Gulags in China?

Reports of hundreds of Gulag-style camps in Northern China, imprisoning millions.

cassiopaea.org

 

[Alejo]

Recently I posted a question about China, I realized many (but not all) are somewhat apologetic about China.

There is a fact I want to share: the Taiwanese are clearly against being absorbed by China.

I met many Taiwanese while I lived in Canada. I used to think the Taiwanese will to independence as something exaggerated by the media. But ALL the ones I met told me they prefered staying independent.
If you doubt it, you can try talking to a Taiwanese online and ask him. I bet he will say the same.

All the Taiwanese? or just the ones you met. Because then the fact that you could share is: All the Taiwanese I have met living in Canada wish to remain independent.

I've had similar experiences with Venezuelans, and Cubans, but I daresay my limited experience isn't enough to describe the entire populace of a nation.

A more interesting item to share would be, how do they explain their wish to remain independent?

 

[iamthatis]

I looked into the polling on Taiwanese independence, and it looks like the main idea people have (since 1994 at least) is to keep things as they are, and decide later.

Taiwan independence movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Polls conducted by ESC, NCCU (1994–2022)

Year conducted	Sample size	Independence as soon as possible	Maintain status quo, move toward independence	Maintain status quo, decide at a later date	Maintain status quo indefinitely	Maintain status quo, move toward unification	Unification as soon as possible	No opinion
1994	1,209	3.1%	8.0%	38.5%	9.8%	15.6%	4.4%	20.5%
1995	21,402	3.5%	8.1%	26.3%	15.6%	19.4%	2.3%	26.3%
1996	10,666	4.1%	9.5%	30.5%	15.3%	19.5%	2.5%	18.6%
1997	3,910	5.7%	11.5%	30.5%	16.3%	17.3%	3.2%	15.4%
1998	14,063	5.7%	11.5%	30.3%	15.9%	15.9%	2.1%	18.7%
1999	9,273	4.7%	13.6%	30.9%	18.8%	15.2%	2.2%	15.2%
2000	11,062	3.1%	11.6%	29.5%	19.2%	17.3%	2.0%	17.4%
2001	10,679	3.7%	10.5%	35.9%	16.4%	17.5%	2.8%	10.5%
2002	10,003	4.3%	13.8%	36.2%	15.0%	15.7%	2.5%	12.4%
2003	14,247	6.2%	14.5%	35.0%	18.0%	11.9%	1.8%	12.5%
2004	34,854	4.4%	15.2%	36.5%	20.9%	10.6%	1.5%	11.0%
2005	7,939	6.1%	14.2%	37.3%	19.9%	12.3%	1.8%	8.5%
2006	13,193	5.6%	13.8%	38.7%	19.9%	12.1%	2.0%	7.9%
2007	13,910	7.8%	13.7%	36.8%	18.4%	10.0%	1.9%	11.4%
2008	16,280	7.1%	16.0%	35.8%	21.5%	8.7%	1.5%	9.4%
2009	20,244	5.8%	15.0%	35.1%	26.2%	8.5%	1.3%	8.1%
2010	13,163	6.2%	16.2%	35.9%	25.4%	9.0%	1.2%	6.1%
2011	23,779	4.6%	15.6%	33.8%	27.4%	8.8%	1.5%	8.2%
2012	18,011	4.8%	15.1%	33.9%	27.7%	8.7%	1.7%	8.1%
2013	13,359	5.7%	17.2%	32.6%	26.3%	9.2%	1.9%	7.2%
2014	20,009	5.9%	18.0%	34.3%	25.2%	7.9%	1.3%	7.3%
2015	22,509	4.3%	17.9%	34.0%	25.4%	8.1%	1.5%	8.8%
2016	15,099	4.6%	18.3%	33.3%	26.1%	8.5%	1.7%	7.4%
2017	13,455	5.1%	17.2%	33.1%	25.3%	10.1%	2.3%	6.9%
2018	9,490	5.0%	15.1%	33.4%	24.0%	12.8%	3.1%	6.6%
2019	16,276	5.1%	21.8%	29.8%	27.8%	7.5%	1.4%	6.5%
2020	11,490	6.6%	25.8%	28.8%	25.5%	5.6%	1.0%	6.8%
2021	12,026	6.0%	25.1%	28.4%	27.3%	6.0%	1.4%	5.8%
2022	12,173	5.2%	24.4%	27.7%	29.4%	5.9%	1.3%	6.0%
2023	7,154	4.5%	21.4%	28.6%	32.1%	5.8%	1.6%	6.0%

 

[Candice]

I looked into the polling on Taiwanese independence, and it looks like the main idea people have (since 1994 at least) is to keep things as they are, and decide later.

Yes exactly, majority of people want to maintain the status quo. Neither pro-independence nor pro-unification.

Most non Taiwanese just can’t understand what the status quo is and why they would want to remain in this limbo state. Taiwanese view it as the pragmatic route but as time goes by they’re getting squeezed by outside players to choose. The view is that independence will lead to war, war leads to economic loss and suffering. Taiwanese values are not the same as western values. Westerners value “freedom” before family, before wealth or health. Taiwanese value family prosperity which includes financial wealth and physical health, which will be decimated if there is war. So they think maintaining the status quo is how they can walk the fine line between two competing forces and still prosper. However from my point I think prosperity would be even better if they took the unification route. As you can see with the latest poll less people are choosing independence and it may very well be due to them seeing the devastating consequences of taking the “help” of the US and acting as a proxy state for US interests. There was a huge wake up call last year when some American pundits were saying the US would blow up the Taiwanese TSMC factories if China invaded. Taiwanese viewed this as the US threatening Taiwanese infrastructure. Taiwanese feel very patriotic and proud about their chip manufacturing and this bit of hubris from the US side hopefully woke some people up.

 

[nicklebleu]

Then there is the fact that Taiwanese in Canada are an exclusive population - after all they left! They might be the ‘hard-core’ independence supporters, unable to come to terms with the status quo. While someone who thinks that unification with China would be a good thing (or at least not all that bad!) would not feel compelled to leave.

There is in my view a clear sampling bias at work here …

 

[Ben]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760836855657120227

This is an interesting poll suggesting support for independence has declined in Taiwan over the past 3 years. Possibly because Ukraine has provided a clear example of the practical reality of cutting ties with your most important trade partner. There is nothing really to be gained from independence except ideological victory, which might be short-lived if the US turns out to be a less than committed ally. It should be obvious that they are quite cynically using you as a proxy, perhaps people in Taiwan can see that and are less naive than they were. This poll shows an increase in the number of people who want to maintain the status quo indefinitely, rather than maintain the status quo while moving towards independence.