Legend of the Seeker

[Biomiast]

Hi to all,

This is not a movie, this is a TV series, so I hesitated to post at first. Then I saw you watch TV moderately and I thought I should recommend this.

The story starts with Darken Rahl enslaving the world but a prophecy emerges that the true Seeker will come and destroy him. After that, he kills the first born sons of the village Brennidon to kill the Seeker. I know, it is too classic but the rest is not so bad.

The definition of Seeker is: The Seeker is a hero who arises in the time of trouble and suffering and seeks out evil, fights wherever he can.

He has a sword, Sword of Truth, that belonged to previous Seekers and when he fights with it, it gives power of its previous owners to the new Seeker. After a few episodes some people referred him as Seeker of Truth.

This world he fights, is full of creatures and magical powers and he learns many lessons as he goes along. Actually he has a wizard by his side who trains him and keep repeating, Lesson number ... Seeker. And believe it or not, those lessons are really similar to what we are talking here. I can name a few but perhaps you should watch it by yourself. one of my favourite quote is:

-He has a destiny.
+Who are you to decide a man's destiny?

So it is not like, "Well since prophecy said it, lets do it." It is more complex than that.

The Seeker has also a woman with him called Confessor who can understand whether someone is lying or not. This woman also has power to bend the will of the others and enslave them, so there is a duality here and a choice of whom to Confess. This is a big topic of the show as well.

What I like about the show is that the Seeker has to make difficult choice constantly in his Quest and not everything goes as its expected. He loses loved ones, finds new people that help him. He discerns, he endures, he shows patience. He basically does what we are doing right now.

The series based on The Sword of Truth novels by Terry Goodkind. I am not a fan of fantasy, but I looked at the subject of those books and they seemed really familiar. Here is a quote from Wikipedia concerning the Sword of Truth series:

Goodkind portrays in his novels that individuals can remain true in the face of adversity without sacrificing their values and moral beliefs. Goodkind's protagonists show that they have courage when making choices, even when faced with difficult situations, and they remain steadfast even when faced with mistakes in their own judgment. The Sword of Truth series also offers a stark contrast between Objectivist and socialist or collectivist beliefs in its portrayal of political dynamics.

The first few volumes of the series present a much more subtle tone of Objectivist philosophy, but as the protagonist Richard grows into his role through the series, Goodkind's works feature a more pronounced focus on this philosophical theme.

Goodkind offers his philosophical views in many of the volumes of the Sword of Truth series. He is an Objectivist, and while he does not write to promote his philosophy, it does come through in his writings. Terry Goodkind himself has stated in interviews that he is not writing fantasy, but rather is writing about important human themes: stories about heroes who can overcome, to project a life worth living.

Here is a link to Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Truth

Here is a link to official website of the show: http://www.legendoftheseeker.com/

 

[Nicholas]

I just finished watching the first 5 episodes after your post. I don't watch TV anymore but I am glad you posted this because I find the series enjoyable so far. It does have the classic struggle of the hero as he proceeds through his adventures. I like the part where the hero goes through the ceremony of naming himself "Seeker" where he must agree to certain conditions, one of which is loosing your friends and family. This resonated with our journey through the Work.

Thanks Biomiast!

 

[CrimsonEagle]

I have read this series and I have enjoyed it very much. For me personally (subjective), after reading the books, I find the TV series to be lacking to say the least.

It is probably because the imagination is able to co-create the world Goodkind has written about in a much more personal way. When I watched a few of the episodes in the series, what they are showing me was just not what my mind had envisioned. *shrugs shoulders* I have found this with a majority of the books I have read which were then transferred over to screen though there are a few out there that followed very closely to what I envisioned. (The Green Mile comes to mind.)

I think that one of the things that I enjoyed most with the series was that there were certain times that I would read a passage (or passages)which a part of me recognized as having a deeper meaning than the surface would indicate, which would then send me into a contemplative state of mind. Unfortunately, at least for me, when a show is on TV or at a movie, there is no time to stop and contemplate, I am just dragged along.

I'm not sure how others would find the series because I'm still trying to understand certain philosophy's contained within this forum. The main plot in this series is basically that we do have a choice in how we live our life but in order to retain this choice, we have to DO. We have a choice to not live under tyranny. Where, (at least from my current understanding which is still a work in progress, there is MUCH which I still do not understand), the plot of these books may vary from the principles of the Work is that the "hero's" are very proactive in their opposition to tyranny, taking the battle to those who would rule the world.

One example would be when one of the main characters, Kahlan Amnell after witnessing the horrors committed by a marauding army, actively participated (with a smaller force), in the killing of this army to the last man. A basic them or us attitude and in order for this world to be a better place, all of them must be removed from existence. They do this because they know that if it is not done then this evil which is engulfing the world will never abate, it will keep going until all is consumed.

This theme is repeated throughout the series.

Again, I am still working on grasping the very fundamentals of the philosophy's carried within this site so what is written in the books may not be as far off from the Work as I currently perceive them to be. I just dont have the experience to make that judgment, only my current perspective which is subject to change as more understanding is acquired.

I do believe that there are insights which can be gained through reading the series. Are the insights enough to offset the parts that are in contradiction to the Work? I'm not sure.

Will these insights be more visible to some via the TV screen? For me, no, but it may be because of my bias....for others however, perhaps it will allow them to see something in a way they never thought of it before.

I would like to know if anyone else from SOTT has read the series, (or watched it), and found it to be within the paramaters of the Work?

Dave

 

[Biomiast]

Hi CrimsonEagle,

It is probably because the imagination is able to co-create the world Goodkind has written about in a much more personal way. When I watched a few of the episodes in the series, what they are showing me was just not what my mind had envisioned. *shrugs shoulders* I have found this with a majority of the books I have read which were then transferred over to screen though there are a few out there that followed very closely to what I envisioned. (The Green Mile comes to mind.)

This is a common issue for everybody. I never liked a movie which I read the book before. I encountered people who did not like V for Vendetta movie because they read the comics first. If I read the Sword of Truth series before, I would feel the same way you do, but since I did not I really enjoy watching the series.


The ideas in the TV show is not directly about the Work but there are some connections. It is generally about the Quest(they use this phrase themselves) and finding Holy Grail which is a motif that you can find in the Wave series and Laura's other writings. As you said, main message is opposing the tyranny. Well, we are under tyranny so it fits for that respect, but I think the show goes beyond that.

You said that Kahlan destroys an army and in some instances Seeker does that to. The philosophy of Cassiopaea Experiment is NOT destroying the Evil for obtaining peace. The lesson I learned from the Wave series is that Evil has its own right to do what it wants to do. On the other hand, we do not have to live under their command, we can obtain our freedom, if this is what we want. The main problem is choice. You can align yourself with STS or STO according to your choice.

What I wanted to say is your point is valid, the series lacks that understanding and in a sense they may propagate "us versus them" attitude which helps nobody. The thing is, I have not thought about it until today. For me, the Sword of Truth is true knowledge and Seeker is a seeker. This seeker uses its knowledge to destroy lies and to live in truth. In a sense, all those people Seeker killed are in actuality his programs, his false behaviours and his subjective sides. Darken Rahl is Personality and Seeker is true I. The battle is not without, it is within. And killing a man is not killing a part of yourself, just mastering it, keeping it under the control of your true I.

I can see now this is not the perception of others who read the series or watch the show. Maybe my mind is just making those unrelated connections, I have a tendency to do that.

I do believe that there are insights which can be gained through reading the series. Are the insights enough to offset the parts that are in contradiction to the Work? I'm not sure.

Will these insights be more visible to some via the TV screen? For me, no, but it may be because of my bias....for others however, perhaps it will allow them to see something in a way they never thought of it before.

I would like to know if anyone else from SOTT has read the series, (or watched it), and found it to be within the paramaters of the Work?

I did not read the series so I can not make a comparison either. I can tell you how I perceive those things, how it affects my thinking. The rest of the post contains some spoilers:

In the first episode, you see the Seeker lost his step father and act upon his anger, he lost the book of counted shadows. One side is that, in the Work, we must never let our negative feelings drive us and control us. This is called Identification. The Seeker acts upon his anger and in the show, they specifically stated that Sword of Truth feeds on the anger of the Seeker. If Seeker uses it for revenge, he will fail, but if he uses it for justice it gives him the power of previous Seekers.

Another theme was that he preferred to destroy the book of counted shadows in order to prevent Rahl obtaining it. This book is the easiest way for the Seeker to defeat him but he gives up on that method and loses his chance. For me this symbolize the parts of ourselves that are not actually bad, but at early stages of the Work, it is harmful to identify ourselves with those parts. So they must be controlled. The simplest example of this is helping people. Gurdjieff said:

It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it.

At another episode you see the Seeker who helps those who betray him. Here there is a reference to "give all to those who ask", of course after obtaining a certain level of Being as Gurdjieff stated above. It can also mean if a part of you failed you in doing something, it does not mean that this particular part is evil. You just simply misused it and you learned a lesson.

At another episode you see the indifference and apathy of people for the suffering of others which is a big topic of both Cassiopaean Experiment and Sott meaning mass hypnosis. Mass hypnosis relates to work in the sense that avoiding it was one of the main aims of Gurdjieff, you can listen it from the podcasts about In Search of the Miraculous.

At another episode you see a town and the Seeker himself which uses magic for all of their needs as short cut, but in the end Seeker use his own intuition and mind to solve the issue, without using the magic. This is related to the idea of short cuts. Cassiopaeans stated that there are no short cuts. The Work is just the Work, you have to work for it, there are no short cuts. It also shows how people become dependent on the outside forces, forgetting the inside which is probably one of the main message of Cassiopaeans. They stated many times that the group should stop asking questions and find the answers within themselves with networking.

At that episode the wizard made a fruit invisible and asked Seeker to cut it. Of course the Seeker could not, then he said: "To see which is not there, gaze upon what is." I think this is related to the concept of Seeing the Unseen, a major part of Cassiopaean Experiment.

I can add many examples if you want, those are just the ones that I immediately found. I do not want to bore you with them. I can see that the TV show is a bit misleading if you watch it with an "us versus them" attitude but as I stated I do not watch it like that, but I assumed everyone will see it the way I did which was a lack of external considering on my part, maybe I should give more explanations before recommending it. Thanks for pointing that out. It is one of my weak spots.

 

[findit]

I am a fan of Terry Goodkind. I've read the entire series and some of it is too dark for a TV series and even though they are mixing book story lines along with made up story lines and characters from the books (As in the character of Jennson who doesn't appear until book 7) I'm still enjoying the series. I've read and seen several interviews with Terry Goodkind and he takes real questions from the present and puts it into a fantasy series. As the books progress so does Richard's powers and the choices he makes as they have a far-reaching impact. A fun series to read and watch.

 

[Nicholas]

Just a heads up that the second season will start this weekend. Apparently the show was successful enough to warrant another season. I enjoyed the first season and the interesting ending. Looks like now he will search for the Veil of Tears to seal the void from the underworld.

I had fun looking for the esoteric underpinnings in the shows and look forward to finding more in this new season.

 

[ana]

You said that Kahlan destroys an army and in some instances Seeker does that to. The philosophy of Cassiopaea Experiment is NOT destroying the Evil for obtaining peace. The lesson I learned from the Wave series is that Evil has its own right to do what it wants to do. On the other hand, we do not have to live under their command, we can obtain our freedom, if this is what we want. The main problem is choice. You can align yourself with STS or STO according to your choice.

What I wanted to say is your point is valid, the series lacks that understanding and in a sense they may propagate "us versus them" attitude which helps nobody. The thing is, I have not thought about it until today. For me, the Sword of Truth is true knowledge and Seeker is a seeker. This seeker uses its knowledge to destroy lies and to live in truth. In a sense, all those people Seeker killed are in actuality his programs, his false behaviours and his subjective sides. Darken Rahl is Personality and Seeker is true I. The battle is not without, it is within. And killing a man is not killing a part of yourself, just mastering it, keeping it under the control of your true I.

I can see now this is not the perception of others who read the series or watch the show. Maybe my mind is just making those unrelated connections, I have a tendency to do that.

This is something I do also :P, I see analogies as a source to put toghether the pieces of the "puzzle". As the invisible thread that binds all.
I don't think those are unrelated connections, make perfect sense to me also :D

 

[Biomiast]

Just a heads up that the second season will start this weekend. Apparently the show was successful enough to warrant another season. I enjoyed the first season and the interesting ending. Looks like now he will search for the Veil of Tears to seal the void from the underworld.

I had fun looking for the esoteric underpinnings in the shows and look forward to finding more in this new season.

Yeah, me too. The subject of second season is really interesting. Since Richard killed Darken Rahl and obtained his real I according to my interpretation, now it is time to perform shamanic tasks! Obtaining knowledge about the underworld, protecting the people from the demons and creatures coming out of there etc. I think the most important theme in this season is The Keeper, master of the underworld who is defined as "the great enemy of all that walks, breaths and grows in the light." They will try to find Stone of Tears to repair the veil. Now, at first thought it seems to be opposite of what we are doing: Unveiling. On the other hand, as I thought recent messages of C's, the message about mental blocking of 4D STS influences really fits into the picture. And about the Stone of Tears as a metaphor:

A: "Stone" to those you perceive as ancients symbolized communication from "a higher source."

Not that Terry Goodkind know this, or intentionally put it there, but it is interesting. At 18th and 19th episodes of first season, I was disappointed and thought how they destroyed the message of the series, but the last episodes were amazing, and with this new subject, I can't wait to watch the second season. Thanks for reminding.

This is something I do also , I see analogies as a source to put toghether the pieces of the "puzzle". As the invisible thread that binds all.
I don't think those are unrelated connections, make perfect sense to me also

I am glad to hear that you are also doing it, Ana. So, I am not alone. :)

I am a fan of Terry Goodkind. I've read the entire series and some of it is too dark for a TV series and even though they are mixing book story lines along with made up story lines and characters from the books (As in the character of Jennson who doesn't appear until book 7) I'm still enjoying the series. I've read and seen several interviews with Terry Goodkind and he takes real questions from the present and puts it into a fantasy series. As the books progress so does Richard's powers and the choices he makes as they have a far-reaching impact. A fun series to read and watch.

I keep looking for the books in the bookstores I have been, but only Wizard's First Rule was translated into my language. I have read some of those changes in story line, it must be making Terry Goodkind fans very angry. Here is a statement Goodkind released:

Goodkind released a message to his readers on his official website prior to the show's production saying, among other things, that:

No series (or mini-series, or feature film) can follow the underlying book exactly. Sam Raimi and his team want to keep the TV series true to my vision, so rest assured that I am going to be intimately involved in the writing of each of the episodes. If you love the book just the way it is, then enjoy the book for what it is and come to the TV series prepared to enjoy the show for what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Seeker#Writing

As he said, it can be done both ways, as you are doing. I think the series are worth watching just for the landscapes of New Zealand. ;)