Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

I can't help but notice, but I see that JP's bias seems to be growing by the day.



Then just read people's comments...

Yeah, saw that. He's a noob to geopolitics, and his attitude towards Israel is heavily biased by his biblical studies. Few, if any, understand the whole banana. In his interview with Bibi, he repeated the pathetic old trope about "a land without a people for a people without a land". Pretty uninformed. He might come around though, the more he thinks about it. One point in his favor is that he is open to all sides of an argument. It would be in keeping with his general approach to have a talk with someone from the opposite side of the fence to Netanyahoo. Time will tell.
 
@Joe

You know what's worrying about JP's attitude? That he can potentially ruin all the good work he has done in the last few years, because he is already getting a backlash from his followers.

From the point of view of the forces at play, it makes me think that JP is being attacked in just that blind spot.

JP needs to create a network, just like the one we have here.
 
@Joe

You know what's worrying about JP's attitude? That he can potentially ruin all the good work he has done in the last few years, because he is already getting a backlash from his followers.

From the point of view of the forces at play, it makes me think that JP is being attacked in just that blind spot.

JP needs to create a network, just like the one we have here.

True. Although solid networks are, apparently, as rare as hen's teeth in this world. Let's see if he comes around a bit. He has a tendency to jump at things and then come back towards the center after a while.
 
There's also been the bizarre 'Kanye goes nazi' performance (not sure is it mental issues or psyop or both) happening in the background, which may have also pushed JP to go overboard with his stance to oppose any "anti-semitism" in public, in order to not make it easy for MSM to paint him as "far right" as they have constantly done before. But perhaps he will calm down and hopefully gives voice to palestinian side of the debate at some point.
 
Yes, that bias is rather obvious recently with Peterson's trip to Israel as 'Brother Nathaniel' explains: Jordan Peterson’s Israel Schtick | The Truthseeker
This guy, Brother Nathaniel, is referring to all people in Israel as kykes, which is definitely a sign of a pathological person not to mention his whole delivery is off.

There’s really no nuanced discussion of the fact that Jordan Peterson would be better served researching the history of Israel himself as opposed to trusting Bibi’s lies and fabrications.
 
Netanyahu explaining to Dave Ruben how history does not favor the moral. It favors the economically, politically, and militarily powerful.

6 minutes long

 
I can't help but notice, but I see that JP's bias seems to be growing by the day.

Perhaps we can pass this on to JP and see what he thinks.

I get very strong negative vibes listening and watching these men. I know the sample size is extremely small, but I doubt Israel with open up on how they treat "others". There seems to be a very unhealthy (using nice word) problem festering in Israel.



Lets see what Dave thinks (start at 4 min mark)

 
JP needs to create a network, just like the one we have here.
He already did, and it is that network that has the pro-Israel bias.

People here should stop treating "a network" and "networking" as some miraculous cure for all evils in the world. "A network" can only be as good as the people that make it, and humans tend to form groups with those that are similar to them (not to mention that you here have a literal "cheat code" in the form of the Cs :P ). JP's network is of a pro-Western, US-as-a-world-hegemon, America-centered mindset, which comes with certain assumptions and unspoken taboos, the topic of Israel being untouchable as one of them. Unless his entire life disintegrates and goes upside-down, he won't change his mind (funny how his hospitalization caused by blind faith in the western medical system effectively did that... aaaand then he went right back when the jab issue came along... well, at least he didn't go full science-fundamentalist and try to force it on others...).

Unfortunately for him, popularity comes at a price, and his price is another network forming around him spontaneously. A network of regular people saying things and showing him stances he normally wouldn't even entertain. Now he will be forced to choose, stay ignorant and radicalize on his position, or entertain the "inappropriate" thoughts and risk being ostracized not only by the "left" as he is already, but also by the "right" (which, in America, is almost entirely pro-Israel).

I don't think i need to say which will be the easier choice. Which will he choose? We will see...

But in all of this, i really do wonder about one thing... I've already seen people joking about JP being radicalized by Twitter, how long will he endure staying on Twitter before it makes him crazy? Tee-hee-hee.
 
People here should stop treating "a network" and "networking" as some miraculous cure for all evils in the world. "A network" can only be as good as the people that make it, and humans tend to form groups with those that are similar to them (not to mention that you here have a literal "cheat code" in the form of the Cs

That's why I mentioned a "solid" network. ;-D

Also, I may be fooling myself (and I probably am to some extent) but I tend to think that, even without the Cs, we would have been unlikely to make any of the gross errors that others have made and continue to make. At least, I don't think we would have persisted in any errors. Remember, the thing that brought people to the Cs was, generally speaking, an innate sense that there is something very wrong with this world, not just some aspects of it, but ALL of it. That kind of inbuilt awareness is well-suited to not falling for (or getting lost in) any particular modern-era ideology.
 
Some thoughts on JP:

I’d first like to say that I do feel, disappointed when he falls into another mud pit. But what did I expect, perfection? Especially at his level of the battle? It is always difficult to put myself in the position of criticizing JP for the obvious reasons, yet as an observer here, I think bouncing ideas off of one another is worthwhile. With these new developments the question arises: Is he still working through his “blind-spots”, or has he been co-opted?

Some people are more malleable than others:

Many of the icons throughout history were who they were pretty much throughout their time in the spotlight, if not their whole life. And some morphed through their saga.

Jack Kennedy was pretty much “Jack” as a young man, and as a skipper in WWII, and then the presidency. He changes some, but, by in large, he was always “Jack” and that was a good thing.

Bobby Kennedy on the other hand, started out as a bellicose fighter for Justus. Starting fights with powerful people at every angle, without the understanding of what repercussions they might cause. And he was willingly involved in plotting the assignation of a president of a sovern country. Then life happened, and he began to change. The Bobby of his final years was not the Bobby of the late 50s anymore. He had changed. He even came to have sympathy for Che Guevara and others involved in political change.

Young John Lennon was known for slurs against ethnic people, disabled people, and homosexuals. Not to mention knocking people down and kicking them in the head. Then life happened and the John of his final years was quite different. He changed right in front of our eyes.

The younger Peter the Great was easy to admire. The latter Peter the Great…not so much. He had changed.

Now JP:

JP has a few issues, so do I, but he is now a spectacle on the world stage being dissected for all to see. And that kind of intensity and exposure can exacerbate one’s weaknesses.

IMO Jordan is an authoritarian follower by nature. And has been molded by the education industry to reject out of hand ANY conspiracy theory. Which puts him at a disadvantage. But he is changing. E.g. Let’s forget the homework and do whatever the doctor says…Doah! I’m off to get my vaxx now (trusting the doctors again) …opps, stupid me! Putin is a thug! Spoken with vitriol…then in a normal voice, a few weeks later, you know I can see Putin’s dilemma, we should talk to him. And I guess there will be more changing to come.

Milo Yiannopoulos said of JP in a podcast a few years back. Paraphrased. No Jordan, I don’t think you are an iconoclast. You love the system. You just want to be known for correcting it, and take your place as the savior, and be ensconced as one of them. (I think there is some truth to that)

JP’s son said to him before speaking in Amsterdam, just stick to what you know and you’ll be ok, stick to what you know! (I think the son knows his fathers’ proclivities to wander out of his domain)

It’s been said to not judge the wine by the vessel it is served in. If a chipped glass stops you from enjoying the host’s best wine… you lose. God has a way of confounding the proud.

JP may have co-opted himself or become co-opted in the future, but we’ll see. Even if he completely falls on his sword, I’m still keeping the good-wine, and will hope for his recovery. And as for the masses? There isn’t much hope for them anyway…narrow path where few will pass comes to mind.
 
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Dictionary expands definition of ‘woman’

"A woman is now also defined as ‘an adult who lives and identifies as female’ even if born otherwise, Cambridge Dictionary says"
"Cambridge Dictionary appears to have entered the gender wars with a recent update that expands its definition of ‘woman’ to include “an adult who lives and identifies as a female” even though they “may have been said to have a different sex at birth.

"Manhattan Institute fellow Chris Rufo put the change on blast in a tweet on Monday, attracting a firestorm of criticism."

"The conservative influencer posted a snapshot of the new definition, which appears on the dictionary’s website after the more commonly-used meaning “adult female human being” – but before the ‘informal’ definition meaning “a wife or female sexual partner.”

 

Dictionary expands definition of ‘woman’

"A woman is now also defined as ‘an adult who lives and identifies as female’ even if born otherwise, Cambridge Dictionary says"
"Cambridge Dictionary appears to have entered the gender wars with a recent update that expands its definition of ‘woman’ to include “an adult who lives and identifies as a female” even though they “may have been said to have a different sex at birth.
Might as well expand the definition of 'lunacy' to 'healthy mental gymnastics in a rather crazy arena.'
 
Some thoughts on JP:

I’d first like to say that I do feel, disappointed when he falls into another mud pit. But what did I expect, perfection? Especially at his level of the battle? It is always difficult to put myself in the position of criticizing JP for the obvious reasons, yet as an observer here, I think bouncing ideas off of one another is worthwhile. With these new developments the question arises: Is he still working through his “blind-spots”, or has he been co-opted?

Some people are more malleable than others:

Many of the icons throughout history were who they were pretty much throughout their time in the spotlight, if not their whole life. And some morphed through their saga.

Jack Kennedy was pretty much “Jack” as a young man, and as a skipper in WWII, and then the presidency. He changes some, but, by in large, he was always “Jack” and that was a good thing.

Bobby Kennedy on the other hand, started out as a bellicose fighter for Justus. Starting fights with powerful people at every angle, without the understanding of what repercussions they might cause. And he was willingly involved in plotting the assignation of a president of a sovern country. Then life happened, and he began to change. The Bobby of his final years was not the Bobby of the late 50s anymore. He had changed. He even came to have sympathy for Che Guevara and others involved in political change.

Young John Lennon was known for slurs against ethnic people, disabled people, and homosexuals. Not to mention knocking people down and kicking them in the head. Then life happened and the John of his final years was quite different. He changed right in front of our eyes.

The younger Peter the Great was easy to admire. The latter Peter the Great…not so much. He had changed.

Now JP:

JP has a few issues, so do I, but he is now a spectacle on the world stage being dissected for all to see. And that kind of intensity and exposure can exacerbate one’s weaknesses.

IMO Jordan is an authoritarian follower by nature. And has been molded by the education industry to reject out of hand ANY conspiracy theory. Which puts him at a disadvantage. But he is changing. E.g. Let’s forget the homework and do whatever the doctor says…Doah! I’m off to get my vaxx now (trusting the doctors again) …opps, stupid me! Putin is a thug! Spoken with vitriol…then in a normal voice, a few weeks later, you know I can see Putin’s dilemma, we should talk to him. And I guess there will be more changing to come.

Milo Yiannopoulos said of JP in a podcast a few years back. Paraphrased. No Jordan, I don’t think you are an iconoclast. You love the system. You just want to be known for correcting it, and take your place as the savior, and be ensconced as one of them. (I think there is some truth to that)

JP’s son said to him before speaking in Amsterdam, just stick to what you know and you’ll be ok, stick to what you know! (I think the son knows his fathers’ proclivities to wander out of his domain)

It’s been said to not judge the wine by the vessel it is served in. If a chipped glass stops you from enjoying the host’s best wine… you lose. God has a way of confounding the proud.

JP may have co-opted himself or become co-opted in the future, but we’ll see. Even if he completely falls on his sword, I’m still keeping the good-wine, and will hope for his recovery. And as for the masses? There isn’t much hope for them anyway…narrow path where few will pass comes to mind.
I think he's, sadly, losing the plot.
Just had a conversation with my wife and we're seeing him become somewhat unhinged in his defense of everything western civilization supposedly stands for.

I'm fascinated with the cognitive dissonance between his criticism of the woke ideology and his defense of western cultural heritage that gave rise to it.
Does he not see that the hyper materialism that gradually crept into the very foundations of western thought is exactly what created the woke and the radical left?

My wife heard his daughter say that he's writing a book that attempts to prove the existence of God. I wonder how he intends to go about that while still expressing full confidence in the theory of evolution.

His arguments would be greatly enhanced if he would read more widely and outside the norms od academia, and that goes for almost every topic that he touches upon.

And touching upon his daughter, she appears to be a true impostor with her general lack of intellectual sophistication and her obsession with her appearance.
It seems like she is the one that pushed him into the spotlight much further than he was ready to venture, all for the sake of money.
Kinda feel like she's the primary vector for the hyperdimensional negative influence that's apparently being exerted upon JP.

All conjecture, of course, but that's what it looks like to me.

I'm pretty much completely disinterested with anything either of them have to say anymore. Feels like JP has said all that he had to say and now he's just repeating himself over and over again, becoming a caricature of himself in the process.

Even when he talks to other people with interesting ideas and information, he talks too much and doesn't really seem to listen. Rather, he always brings the point back to something he likes to talk about which is basically beating a dead horse, over and over again.

As for his daughter, she obviously had a nose job (which she is lying about by gaslighting her audience), she's starting to get a serious case of duck face, and her go-to phrase is 'aw, that's interesting' followed by her next prepared question.

I hope that JP will see the light at some point but I'm afraid he's been fully coopted through money and fame, and now he's under control of the Daily Wire which is the definition of controlled opposition and gatekeeping.
 
I think he's, sadly, losing the plot.
Just had a conversation with my wife and we're seeing him become somewhat unhinged in his defense of everything western civilization supposedly stands for.

I'm fascinated with the cognitive dissonance between his criticism of the woke ideology and his defense of western cultural heritage that gave rise to it.

Does he not see that the hyper materialism that gradually crept into the very foundations of western thought is exactly what created the woke and the radical left?

I don't know about this. Did 'Western cultural heritage' give rise to woke ideology? I'm not so sure. I see woke ideology as more of a dangerous mutation on the body of Western culture, a psychopathic twisting of some very good Western values (tolerance, diversity, care for the environment, etc) that is currently trying to take over the entire system. You only gotta look as far as all the CIA funding to various progressive groups in the 60's to see that what we're witnessing is not a natural outgrowth.

In that sense, I see Peterson's talk of Western culture as crucially important as a defense against woke ideology because I think the two are antithetical. The foundations have evolved over time into a pretty complex body of concepts, and it's this that Peterson sees as the necessary precondition of existence for people in the West. I agree with him that in order to exist in the world, one must have a stable set of values and criteria by which to judge good from evil, and truth from lies. Without that, you get nihilism, which is one of his primary warnings to the world, and he makes the case incredibly well.

He's traced a pretty legible link for everyone in the world to connect their own actions in the world with the highest order of value, or God. I think if you asked him about the question of hyper-materialism and its connection with the woke ideology, he'd probably agree. Hasn't he made the point in numerous ways that the empty avarice and hedonism can't fill this sort of terrible hunger inside us that can only be filled with the divine, or the hero's journey, or growing up, or finding the biggest cross you can and then struggling to bear it?
Now JP:

JP has a few issues, so do I, but he is now a spectacle on the world stage being dissected for all to see. And that kind of intensity and exposure can exacerbate one’s weaknesses.

IMO Jordan is an authoritarian follower by nature. And has been molded by the education industry to reject out of hand ANY conspiracy theory. Which puts him at a disadvantage. But he is changing. E.g. Let’s forget the homework and do whatever the doctor says…Doah! I’m off to get my vaxx now (trusting the doctors again) …opps, stupid me! Putin is a thug! Spoken with vitriol…then in a normal voice, a few weeks later, you know I can see Putin’s dilemma, we should talk to him. And I guess there will be more changing to come.

Milo Yiannopoulos said of JP in a podcast a few years back. Paraphrased. No Jordan, I don’t think you are an iconoclast. You love the system. You just want to be known for correcting it, and take your place as the savior, and be ensconced as one of them. (I think there is some truth to that)

JP’s son said to him before speaking in Amsterdam, just stick to what you know and you’ll be ok, stick to what you know! (I think the son knows his fathers’ proclivities to wander out of his domain)

It’s been said to not judge the wine by the vessel it is served in. If a chipped glass stops you from enjoying the host’s best wine… you lose. God has a way of confounding the proud.

JP may have co-opted himself or become co-opted in the future, but we’ll see. Even if he completely falls on his sword, I’m still keeping the good-wine, and will hope for his recovery. And as for the masses? There isn’t much hope for them anyway…narrow path where few will pass comes to mind.

I admit I haven't read Altemeyer's book about authoritarian followers, so maybe someone who has could chime in here. My general sense of the term leads me to say that I don't see him as an authoritarian follower 'by nature'. Would an authoritarian follower admit he was wrong about the jabs, and then go to the effort of recording and publishing a pretty lengthy interview discussing the harm done by them? There's also the stand he took when woke ideology reared its head during Canada's compelled speech baloney, giving rise to this thread. He's also becoming very outspoken about the green de-industrialization agenda in a way that's kind of incredible for a mainstream guy to do.

I think it would be more fair to say that he's a nuanced human being, generally a good man who's got a very clear-eyed picture of the world on some topics, and some serious blind spots in others, like the rest of us - although his blind spots are magnified due to his location in the spotlight, such all this BS with Netenyahu and Shapiro.
 
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