Is Everything Really Okay : Reconsidering Our Problems

rideforever

The Force is Strong With This One
Is the ego really a problem?
Perhaps it is the solution.
Are we meant not to be human, living in a dot of Awareness hiding up a mountain?
But the ego will disturb you again even there.
Oh .. .the evil ego it follows me everywhere.
God is such a trikster.

Or is he?
Perhaps the ego is simply real and what we are meant to be.
Just like our legs and arms.
We have fallen out of it somehow and no longer understand.
We blame it, blame our mind as if we will ever be without it.
Something strange is going on.

Through careful investigation it is clear that most spiritual ideas are simply wrong.
As Jesus says you know not the day, neither do you even know the hour.
Humans have become lost in a strange way, alienated from everything.

Perhaps there is nothing wrong at all, except our lack of being able to understand and use your functions.

Of course ! Everything is great we are all love let's just do it .. .in a big party !!!
... ... .. ... no ... that's not what I mean at all.
 

lainey

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Ego is mentioned quite a few times in the Wave series, I found it helpful to go back over and review those chapters. One of the C's quotes that stood out to me about ego was this one:
A: Neeileigl of Cassiopaea. Keep faith with each other.

Q: (Andromeda) What does "keep faith with each other" mean?

A: We notice that there are members of your forum who are not doing this.

Q: (L) In what respect?

A: Covertly antagonistic.

Q: (L) So there are people who are covertly antagonistic. Why are they covertly antagonistic?

A: Little respect.

Q: (L) So they have little respect.

(Chu) I'm assuming that means for you or us?

(L) In other words, they don't have respect for the group?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Us particularly?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Anything more than that?

A: You especially.

Q: (L) Why?

A: Inspired by negative discarnate entities with connections to 4D STS "handlers".

Q: (Andromeda) Are these people a danger?

A: They are looking for opportunities to manipulate weaker members away.

Q: (L) So, what is it that makes somebody weak?

A: Mostly ego.


Q: (L) Okay. Anything we should be doing about this?

A: Just be aware. Members should also be aware and alert to invitations.

Q: (L) Invitations? What kind of invitations?

A: To express dissatisfaction when feeling disaffected due to lack of faith in the process.

Q: (L) Well, I think everybody gets into a period where they feel a lack of faith. Sometimes it's just a chemical feeling, like when you're depressed and everything is black, nothing will ever be nice again, your life is crappy, and that sort of thing. So I think that anybody can be vulnerable to that.

A: Yes. It needs to be aired out.

Q: (L) So, if people would just talk about it, that would help?

A: Yes
I hope this helps a little.
 

rideforever

The Force is Strong With This One
@lainey
Thanks that's an interesting section.
I wonder if there is then any connection with Gurdjieff because Gurdjieff said that the soul is a rare thing that has to be earned by unusual individuals, whereas in this quote the guidance is that humans collectively chose to incarnate in the material world to have a material experience.
Perhaps some members can marry up both these views together to make a comprehensive understanding of the situation?
 

XPan

Jedi Council Member
Is the ego really a problem?
Perhaps it is the solution.
Are we meant not to be human, living in a dot of Awareness hiding up a mountain?
But the ego will disturb you again even there.
Oh .. .the evil ego it follows me everywhere.
God is such a trikster.

Or is he?
Perhaps the ego is simply real and what we are meant to be.
Just like our legs and arms.
We have fallen out of it somehow and no longer understand.
We blame it, blame our mind as if we will ever be without it.
Something strange is going on.

Through careful investigation it is clear that most spiritual ideas are simply wrong.
As Jesus says you know not the day, neither do you even know the hour.
Humans have become lost in a strange way, alienated from everything.

Perhaps there is nothing wrong at all, except our lack of being able to understand and use your functions.

Of course ! Everything is great we are all love let's just do it .. .in a big party !!!
... ... .. ... no ... that's not what I mean at all.

My thinking revolving Ego is...

That, it is the human ego who is in daily life of most the main trickster. It is also pretty streetwise; Easily duping the mind by emulating emotions, using strategies, giving off diffuse opinions in order to "fit in" or even to become being covertly antagonistic. but also capable to defend obsessive ideas to "death", even when facing proof and evidence. The advanced (cultivated, groomed) ego understands to play, even believe to be the good fairy and spiritual guru... What it really understands is the world as concepts.

The ego will always protect its own interests, while you/I/we are the tool for it's expansion, from thoughtform into manifesting / into the physical, materialistic 3D world. No wonder that there are so many followers in this nowadays mad world, doing the bidding of the psychopathic elite conglomerate, while at the same time maintaining a true belief of doing good. (what a feat)

Yet - the ego is not meant to be "eliminated", as it is part of the 3D realm, the duality / trinity working on this level of existence, and a substantial part of it. Trying to eliminate ego could potential lead to accumulated energies piling up deep within - leading to madness, and/or "explosive" outbreaks - going berserk - having dire consequences.

I believe that observing the ego, being truthful in the task, is a good way to weaken the domination of ego over soul. As you observe the whereabouts of your ego, you start to learn it's tricks and manipulation. It is not about pushing it, or to active a goal. It is about being still and honest - see, review and listen - OBSERVING.... being honest about what rises up in you.

The task of observing in honesty - creates a space or gap between you and your ego. The potential realization - that you are in truth, not your ego. (Most people do not distinguish between I, Self and Ego)

It needs to be experienced - it can't solely be understood by just reading the words. But be aware, the ego is sneaky and excellent to reenter even at the slightest moment when one drops focus... Yet, that is human, too. Simply just continue to observe, and learn from it (not judge or play guilty) Because those are valuable mistakes, important to make, offering a potential of insight and growths.


Like in the movie "Eat-Pray-Love" Julia Roberts said...

"...if you set out for a truthful journey, whether internally or externally, and regard everyone you meet along that journey as a teacher - then the truth will not be withheld from you..."

I usually think of the ego being able to works as an organizer if used wisely. But it is a lousy leader and treacherous 'spiritual' guide. Or in daily life - think of it as a dog; it defends the owner, barking at everything and anyone, and wants to "protect" against dangers and attacks. It is prone to see the world filled with attacks and hostility, easily going into defense mode. If you give it that power, letting it lead you, then things go easily wrong. As with dogs, when they "take over"- just isn't a way to go.

It needs to be told to sit in the backseat ! Otherwise it is us, who sit in the backseat of our car, bobbing around to the whims of our ego, as the latter is sitting behind the steering wheel.
 

rideforever

The Force is Strong With This One
@XPan
I agree with what you say ... but ...this way of thinking is not really answering questions.
For instance if you listen very closely to many gurus and sages and so on .... you will hear them from time to time let slip that their ego, those voices, are still going on - even if they are self-realised.
This is not a good sign is it !!!
Anyway it's the same with the rejection of human life and so on ... the shaven head spirituality, it's okay but it's small.
Why could Jesus raise the dead?
Well I am certain the answer is that instead of having a small awakening ... you know Awareness ... Oneness ... type thing ... with your mind still going on ... and your body that you hate so much being dragged around .... waiting for death of this sad human incarnation .... instead of all that Jesus integrated every single part of him.
And so he was seriously full of light.
Yeah and that includes the ego mind personality thinking.
All of it.
Now ... I don't mean that you are self-realised have Awareness and you are at peace with your thinking.
No, I don't mean that. Loads of gurus are at peace with the madness their head that is still going on.
That is a trickster send to be mean to them, because God made a mistake.
No ... I don't mean that.

I mean that every single cell, layer of consciousness, layer of energy, every function, every thought , every sneeze is flowing from you self-realized super cool self. You don't need to be at peace with anything ... because you are simply deeply fully integrated in all the big dimensions and the small ones ... just like the Fonz.
And if you are like that ... which is bloody rare or even unheard of ... if you are like that ... then just maybe you too can raise the dead.

That is my thinking.
Just be cool, really cool.

jc 2.jpg
 

seve

Jedi
Hello,
the ego should remain in a corner of our personality, never central, just in a corner, it is convenient a corner it is necessary to the square of the room! The ego blocks the presence to oneself, the here and now and its most formidable weapons are the projection past/future.
 

XPan

Jedi Council Member
@XPan
I agree with what you say ... but ...this way of thinking is not really answering questions.
For instance if you listen very closely to many gurus and sages and so on .... you will hear them from time to time let slip that their ego, those voices, are still going on - even if they are self-realised.
This is not a good sign is it !!!
Anyway it's the same with the rejection of human life and so on ... the shaven head spirituality, it's okay but it's small.
Why could Jesus raise the dead?
Well I am certain the answer is that instead of having a small awakening ... you know Awareness ... Oneness ... type thing ... with your mind still going on ... and your body that you hate so much being dragged around .... waiting for death of this sad human incarnation .... instead of all that Jesus integrated every single part of him.
And so he was seriously full of light.
Yeah and that includes the ego mind personality thinking.
All of it.
Now ... I don't mean that you are self-realised have Awareness and you are at peace with your thinking.
No, I don't mean that. Loads of gurus are at peace with the madness their head that is still going on.
That is a trickster send to be mean to them, because God made a mistake.
No ... I don't mean that.

I mean that every single cell, layer of consciousness, layer of energy, every function, every thought , every sneeze is flowing from you self-realized super cool self. You don't need to be at peace with anything ... because you are simply deeply fully integrated in all the big dimensions and the small ones ... just like the Fonz.
And if you are like that ... which is bloody rare or even unheard of ... if you are like that ... then just maybe you too can raise the dead.

That is my thinking.

Could it be

that because most of us humans, walking here on earth, are within the realm of 3D STS -- We all got ego, dwelling in the corners of our underpinnings. Some have more, others have less. But overall, I would think that we do slip from time to time, and that it is part of life and living... and learning, including from one's own ego in particularly ! Guru or not.

Then of course there is the question, which part of a person are we focusing most on ? Do we prematurely dismiss ? Do we have the patience to encourage ? Do we have the strength to silence our ego in the matter ?

Though consulting Tao/I Ching I often get reminded that when we focus on a person's shortcomings, our ego sees itself too easily confirmed by premature findings, so we dismiss a person (Give up on him or her). The ego wants answers fast ! Solutions. Now !! But not situations in life are favorable to be pushed and stressed for answers and solution. It actually could result into the very opposite of what we want to achieve, because we gave in for ego, instead of our sage in us.

While the "Sage", or the higher aspect of our creation encourages us, that we may want orient ourselves towards the (potentially) higher faculties in a person (dwelling).

But yes, me talking like that - is easy. Acting like this in reality - much more difficult ! Kind of like syrup sometimes. But it is worth it.

Of course I cannot speak for gurus. It is said that true gurus, do nothing at all - and change the world (free will). The not-so-real-gurus, are the ones with a lot of noise, waving hands, sounds and words... more or less manipulating it's surrounding based on ego with it's own set of shortcomings.

I like when you say: You don't need to be at peace with everything. It is a nice approach to the whereabouts of life and people and living.

Everything has its time. Even the lessons we face. And one day, I suspect we also have to learn to live, to forgive and to unite with those that have done great harm to humanity. Ultimately the inclusion of all aspects in creation. Including the ego. Including the ugly aspects.
 

Andrew

Jedi Master
any connection with Gurdjieff because Gurdjieff said that the soul is a rare thing
Here are some things the Group and the C’s have discussed regarding Gurdjieff:

(Joe) Did Gurdjieff not describe the reason for the work on the self?

(L) Well, his way of working on the self is not dynamic. It's very static and mechanical. It works probably for... And like I said, the Gurdjieff groups are barren!

(Joe) Right.

(L) I mean, O__ went around and hooked up with different groups around the world, and questioned them. None of them seemed to be remotely aware of hyperdimensional realities. None of them seemed to have ANY social conscience or feeling of giving or sharing to others, responsibility to the universe, at all! It's like working in a Gurdjieff group destroys that. It's designed to destroy that.

(Joe) And that's part of Gurdjieff's teaching.

(L) No, it's not! That's the effect it has...

(Pierre) The little compassion and conscience people might have gets destroyed when this purely materialistic paradigm is imposed on them, this idea that the Universe is ultimately going to eat them. And then this giving or sharing to others and responsibility to the universe doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't matter.

(Mikey) How much of Gurdjieff's teachings came from mediums as opposed to transmissions of a tradition?

A: 83 percent

Q: (Andromeda) That's a lot.

(Joe) 83 percent from mediums that he didn't have any real control over.

(Chu) But then if he thought everything was material, how could he believe in mediums?

(L) Because supposedly, you could go inside a medium's head and they would be able to perceive the material universe.

(Joe) Tapping into deeper truths.

(L) Just because he was using mediums didn't mean that he thought he was contacting really spiritual realms. He was supposedly just tapping the subconscious mind that he believed knew everything.

(Joe) I mean, his whole teaching is about the mechanical nature of man, and how to get over it, right? How to master yourself, ya know...

(L) In a mechanical way.

(Joe) But to what end? Simply to not be a victim to the vicissitudes of life and your own nature, basically. But that's it, right? You just overcome that, and then...

(L) Yeah, well, he talks about crystallizing a soul.

(Joe) Right.

(L) {Addressing Cs} You have already said that all souls exist from the beginning, and that souls are not created as we go along through time. We asked about that some time ago when we were asking about Messages from Michael and so forth. And you've also talked about instances of large soul groups such as organic portals or whatever - group souls, souls of animals, and so on and so forth. So basically, we already have kind of a system here that you have given that is quite different from what Gurdjieff proposed, which was that people had to GROW a soul. It was like something that if you didn't have it, when you died, you died. And if you were only partly crystallized, well then a certain number of days after you died, that you would be kind of like floating in some atmospheric area and then even that part of you would die. That's kind of what I got from reading this book. And I think that was partly from some of the ancient traditions, actually.

(Joe) That's what the Cs have said about kind of a "pool".

(L) Well, going into a pool is one thing – there is still soul involved even if it is a fragment of a larger soul - but here Gurdjieff had the idea that there is no such thing as soul as we conceive it; a soul had to be “grown” or crystallized in a given lifetime and even then, it was material.

(Mikey) Which parts of Gurdjieff's teachings are still most useful to read?

A: Psychology, up to a point.

Q: (Joe) Maybe we should cut Gurdjieff some slack, ya know? Because the way he described the mechanical nature of man is a very good basis on which to build like what you and the Cs have done. What they've added to that is certainly very compatible. He fleshed it all out very well, and it fits with a lot of the stuff the Cs have said. It's the first installment, and Gurdjieff could only go so far. I suppose you can't expect someone to have the whole banana, right?

(L) Right.

[...]

(L) Yeah, these wonderful Jungian explorations. That's when you come into contact with the greater part of your soul or soul group. So Gurdjieff got a LOT of things really mixed up because...

(Joe) He defined the human problem really well, but he didn't have a proper context in which to put it. A spiritual context.

(L) Well, let's face it: neither did we. When we started talking to the Cs, the kind of stupid, ignorant, New Agey, Madame Blavatskyite kinds of things I would ask...

As the group discussed Gurdjieff provided a great basis to build what the Group has since discovered, but it’s not the whole Banana.

So given what we now know about Gurdjieffs teachings, we can add additional context to his Cosmology; a hyperdimensional reality.

From here, it’s important to understand the existence of and difference between ‘Adamic’ and ‘Pre-Adamic’ Man or ‘Organic Portals’ (termed by the C’s) as well as their respective purposes in the Universe, to shed light on your question:

Secret History of the World said:
In Book 3 of his Gnosis, Boris Mouravieff discusses what calls “pre-adamic humanity” and “agamic humanity”. Here are some excerpts of what Mouravieff has to say:

In the first volume of ‘Gnosis’, we already referred several times to the coexistence of two essentially different races; one of Men, and another of Anthropoids.

We must emphasize the fact that from the esoteric point of view the latter term has no derogatory meaning…

The Scriptures contain more than one reference to the coexistence on our planet of these two humanities - which are now alike in form but unlike in essence. We can even say that the whole dramatic history of humanity, from the fall of Adam until today, not excluding the prospect of the new era, is overshadowed by the coexistence of these two human races whose separation will occur only at the Last Judgement.

The human tares, the anthropoid race, are the descendants of pre-adamic humanity. The principal difference between contemporary pre-adamic man and agamic man - a difference which is not perceived by the senses - is that the former does not possess the developed higher centers that exist in the latter which, although they have been cut off from his waking consciousnessness since the Fall, offer him a real possibility of esoteric evolution. Apart from this, the two races are similar: they have the same lower centers, the same structure of the Personality and the same physical body, although more often than not this is stronger in the pre-adamic man than in the agamic; regarding beauty, we must not forget that pre-adamic man and woman were created by God on the sixth day, in His image and after His likeness, and that the daughters of this race were beautiful….

By identifying himself with the ‘I of his Personality, Adam lost consciousness of his real ‘I’ and fell from Eden that was his original condition into the same condition as the pre-adamics…The two humanities, coming from two different creative processes, later mingled on the level of organic life on Earth…From then on, the coexistence of these two human types, and the competition, which was the result of this, became the norm….we can see that throughout the centuries, even in our own day, adamics in their post-fall condition, have been and are generally in an inferior position to the pre-adamics.

…For the moment we will restrict ourselves to repeating that contemporary agamic man, having lost contact with his higher centers and therefore with his real ‘I’, appears practically the same as his pre-adamic counterpart. However, unlike the latter, he still has his higher centers, which ensure that he has the possibility of following the way of esoteric evolution. At present, pre-adamic man is deprived of this possibility, but it will be given to him if adamic humanity develops, as it should during the era of the Holy Spirit.

I would recommend reading the Secret History of the World for further clarification where the topic is explored, explained and put into a much more comprehensive context.
 

rideforever

The Force is Strong With This One
@Andrew
Thanks for the quotes.
Well, I don't represent any tradition but I recognize some lack of understanding of Gurdjieff. When he said everything is material he did not mean everything is the material world. He had developed and explored various energetic powers and internal process, that was why he was recorded by O as being telepathic and demonstrated it in a meeting in the gardens of the Priore much to everyone's shock. It appears it is conducted by a part of the emotional body.
Very few people have such power or have technical knowledge of the layer of the being through which it functions, but Gurdjieff did. The reason he did is because ... well there is the story that he stayed up all night with his carpets at his shop and a small piece of metal to find out how to fix them. He had hired a specialist carpet repair man to repair the defects in some of his carpets but that man would not teach Gurdjieff the skills of how to do it, although G offered him money. So instead G watched his body movements from behind and then spend many hours all night trying to replciate the body movements in order to understand how to weave repairs into the carpets.
Very few people have this kind of insane technical desire, the desire to know.
And he had the same desire to know with the esoteric, hence his discovery of the technical structure of telepathy and so on.
It was rare.
And he earned it all himself. It is possible that some of his knowledge was channelled, he mentioned something like that once.
But his whole raison d'etre was to personally earn knowledge, because otherwise it does not become part of your being.
To do, to work.
That is what these word mean.

He could see then that powers, identiy, consciousness and so on ... these were not mystic imcomprehensible things. They were simply the result of various layers of material bodies, of a more and more refined type. And their functioning, each body has a system "a blood" that makes the body function.
The only body visible to human beings is the first, the physical, others can only be felt by those who also have that body.
Therefore everything is material, and material becomes more and more refined.
And the bodies are related to God's plan for the universe, the subtle structures and energies and so on.

Gurdjieff also prevented people from entering his teaching, it is not a general teaching, but is for very few souls. So any negativity towards society is not damaging, Gurdjieff is not damaging society. But his students use very unusual methods which may appear negative from the outside.

As for "Souls", I have heard this convincing explanation from a teacher:

- who is it that will reincarnate? Is there anything individual inside you, anything permanent? If not then there is nothng to reincarnate and so perishing is permanent. It is not a punishment but simply the lack of flowering.
We can see this in nature, as above so below, acorns and oaks. It is partly by chance, partly by effort. As above so below.
The idea that all souls already exist ... seems like wishful thinking to me.
Many people are actually the same soul, the "general-human-soul", and so are not individuals. When they die that face is not coming back.
It's like when you go to sleep somebody in Taiwan wakes up... life continues but it is not your face, not your eyes.
So, spirituality is actually concerned with the individualisation of people who separate from the general-human-soul, the splinter off through a painful birth as an individual. That is what spirituality is, that cleaving off.

I find this explanation reasonably good because it follows nature and does not give humans any special category. After all why would souls be here, why don't they remember, and why can't they leave?
If they are already souls why do they suffer.
The journey of the soul is from God back to God, but initially it is from a collective soul and when he returns he is individual.

If we were already "souls" then there would be no reason to continue on this planet, and there would be no reason to do anything as everything is "protected" like the social-care system in society. It is a Marxist idea.

But I prefer the idea that life is real, meaning there are real possibilities, like becoming as miraculous as Jesus, and real downsides. Life is real, it is not a dream. It is actual. Death is actual. Merit and reward is actual.
This gives life a lightning like energy, it is true and real.
It is open, anything is possible for the soul that wishes the stars.
And if it's not like that, it's nothing.
... that's what I think ...
 

Andrew

Jedi Master
I find this explanation reasonably good because it follows nature and does not give humans any special category. After all why would souls be here, why don't they remember, and why can't they leave?
If they are already souls why do they suffer.
The journey of the soul is from God back to God, but initially it is from a collective soul and when he returns he is individual.

If we were already "souls" then there would be no reason to continue on this planet, and there would be no reason to do anything as everything is "protected" like the social-care system in society. It is a Marxist idea.
Have you read The Wave Series? From some of your questions above, it would lead me to think you have not. If that's the case, I also recommend reading The Wave Series and getting caught up with some of the basic concepts of this forum, of which many of your questions will be answered and explained.

As suggested you may want to read Laura's Wave series.
 

Andrew

Jedi Master
Yes I have read some of it, is there something in particular?
Awesome!

And yes!

Particularly, reading all of it. :)

Where I quoted you above regarding Souls, you found your understanding to be a reasonable explanation.

Would you like to see if you can deepen that understanding?

If not, then I have nothing further to add.

If so, then keep reading!

And if what you discover there, resonates within you, then you will indeed be on a 'rideforever'.
 

rideforever

The Force is Strong With This One
@seek10
I spend most of my time in intensive spiritual practice. I don't know why people think that reading means so much, the change is not happening through reading. There is an extremely large amount of work to do. And given the almost impossible circumstances of human life it is very hard to do.
How many spiritual books do you have to read before you start? It becomes like a drug.
Only when you begin the thousands of hours of careful deliberate inner work do you start to see the scale of what is required, and you value reading less.
As for the materials of the Wave, some is interesting, some echoes many other texts, some is rambling and I find little meaning in it.
But then I am not looking for holiday reading.
 

Andrew

Jedi Master
@seek10
I spend most of my time in intensive spiritual practice. I don't know why people think that reading means so much, the change is not happening through reading. There is an extremely large amount of work to do. And given the almost impossible circumstances of human life it is very hard to do.
How many spiritual books do you have to read before you start? It becomes like a drug.
Only when you begin the thousands of hours of careful deliberate inner work do you start to see the scale of what is required, and you value reading less.
As for the materials of the Wave, some is interesting, some echoes many other texts, some is rambling and I find little meaning in it.
But then I am not looking for holiday reading.
Perhaps this is not the right forum for you, as the majority here are avid readers, with specific assigned readings, so that we may share in a mutual cosmological understanding.

If you think you can bypass the basic readings, then I think you’ll find it difficult to communicate within the group consensus.
 
Top Bottom