There is no separate thread for Untergang/Downfall, so I hope it's ok to post about it here.
*Spoilers alert*
Yesterday I watched the movie and think it was very well done. Bruno Ganz did a superb job portraying Hitler, especially the aspects where the contrast between his psychopathic nature and seeming "care" for his close female entourage was particularly vivid. But this contrast is illusionary, because even this "care" is deeply pathological, where the biggest gift he could offer them was poison. In this it is similar to his "act of mercy" toward his dog by putting her down. Not to mention his refusal to allow evacuation of civilians, women and children from Berlin, by saying that they brought it on themselves.
The movie is based on the book by Traudl Junge, his young secretary. She wrote:
And it makes me wonder if Traudl's fascination with Hitler, including deliberate filtering of what she was observing, is similar to the dynamic of women who love psychopaths (and what about Eva Brown!?), while it applies to men as well, of course. There is a point in the movie where, while she knows that she has to run and leave the bunker, instead she says that she will stay with Hitler till the end. And later, when asked by her friend why she said it, she replied that she had no idea.
There are many similar examples where people who are perhaps generally caring, and yet complacent and willingly participate in crimes against humanity. Some out of ignorance, some out of loyalty, some out of fear, but many are completely brainwashed There is a mix of people who are under an influence of pathology, and people who are pathological themselves. For example, Magda Goebbels's story and conduct were downright scary. If by any chance she wasn't a full blown psychopath, she was an especially strong authoritarian personality who didn't see a point in living (including lives of her children) in the world without national socialism. There is a particularly creepy scene in the movie where after killing her children, Magda sits behind the table to play cards. And apparently it wasn't a dramatization.
Another was Albert Speer, Hitler's main architect. First time I heard about him was not long ago while watching "Lost Worlds - Hitler's Supercity" documentary. Wiki says that he was the one who apologized during Nuremberg trials and took responsibility. Downfall portrays him in a somewhat positive or at least neutral light, while he was one of the closest people to Hitler, and had a very active role in at least physical creation of the Reich. So, although it wasn't particularly capitalized, this movie is about choices.
All in all, I highly recommend this movie.
*Spoilers alert*
Yesterday I watched the movie and think it was very well done. Bruno Ganz did a superb job portraying Hitler, especially the aspects where the contrast between his psychopathic nature and seeming "care" for his close female entourage was particularly vivid. But this contrast is illusionary, because even this "care" is deeply pathological, where the biggest gift he could offer them was poison. In this it is similar to his "act of mercy" toward his dog by putting her down. Not to mention his refusal to allow evacuation of civilians, women and children from Berlin, by saying that they brought it on themselves.
The movie is based on the book by Traudl Junge, his young secretary. She wrote:
"I was 22 and I didn't know anything about politics, it didn't interest me", Junge said decades later, also saying that she felt great guilt for "...liking the greatest criminal ever to have lived."
She said, "I admit, I was fascinated by Adolf Hitler. He was a pleasant boss and a fatherly friend. I deliberately ignored all the warning voices inside me and enjoyed the time by his side almost until the bitter end. It wasn't what he said, but the way he said things and how he did things."
And it makes me wonder if Traudl's fascination with Hitler, including deliberate filtering of what she was observing, is similar to the dynamic of women who love psychopaths (and what about Eva Brown!?), while it applies to men as well, of course. There is a point in the movie where, while she knows that she has to run and leave the bunker, instead she says that she will stay with Hitler till the end. And later, when asked by her friend why she said it, she replied that she had no idea.
There are many similar examples where people who are perhaps generally caring, and yet complacent and willingly participate in crimes against humanity. Some out of ignorance, some out of loyalty, some out of fear, but many are completely brainwashed There is a mix of people who are under an influence of pathology, and people who are pathological themselves. For example, Magda Goebbels's story and conduct were downright scary. If by any chance she wasn't a full blown psychopath, she was an especially strong authoritarian personality who didn't see a point in living (including lives of her children) in the world without national socialism. There is a particularly creepy scene in the movie where after killing her children, Magda sits behind the table to play cards. And apparently it wasn't a dramatization.
Another was Albert Speer, Hitler's main architect. First time I heard about him was not long ago while watching "Lost Worlds - Hitler's Supercity" documentary. Wiki says that he was the one who apologized during Nuremberg trials and took responsibility. Downfall portrays him in a somewhat positive or at least neutral light, while he was one of the closest people to Hitler, and had a very active role in at least physical creation of the Reich. So, although it wasn't particularly capitalized, this movie is about choices.
All in all, I highly recommend this movie.