Herbal Medicine - Is it any good?

[Erna]

Hi guys, I have a question. Maybe someone in here has had a similar ordeal and can give some advice.

My sister has been diagnosed by psychologists as bi-polar. She's 34 now, yet the problems started when she was still at school. Even though she's very beautiful and intelligent, usually she's quite a sight for sore eyes - always very sad and cries a lot.

She's always extremely medicated, and after I read Joe's article (First They Came For The Cows - Are The Sheeple Next?) I thought I'd have a look at the prescribed concoction she takes daily. A lot of the pills are from the pharmaceutical companies mentioned in the article, so now I'm really worried.

I myself 'never' take any medicine, since I have always had my suspicions about pharmaceutical companies. I have the flu right now and I'd rather suffer through it than swallow something. A couple of years ago my brother threw all her medicines in the dustbin, saying that's the cause of the problem, and shortly afterwards she really lost her marbles.

I was just thinking if taking her to a herbal doctor might be a good idea. The side effects of the chemicals she takes is no joke. She's always kind of in a haze. She has no extreme emotions, she can't burst out laughing or become furious or anything. She's just always so mellow.

And the worst of all is that she has no libido or sexual drive, and I read on the internet that that side effect is permanent, even if the patient stops using the medicines. I was outraged.

Here's my question:

First of all, why does someone's brain stop producing serotonin or doesn't produce enough of it?

Secondly, should I try get her off all that chemicals and get her to a herbal doctor with natural remedies, or am I just extremely uninformed about these matters and should rather keep out of it altogether.

I just feel we have nothing to lose, if we take her off that stuff, and she goes all loony, then we can just put her back on it and know that we have tried.

 

[Miss Isness]

Hello Erna,

I share your wariness of pharmaceutical drugs. I've read that St John's Wort has been proven to treat depression successfully, and I'm sure there are other natural remedies available for other types of imbalances. I would suggest finding a good, naturopathic doctor who is well-informed about conventional medicine to get advice on how to move towards healthier therapies. It's obviously important to find someone your sister feels comfortable with, so that she can participate in designing a program that she feels good about, and makes her feel safe.

 

[Erna]

Thanks for this, Miss Isness.

I bought a book this afternoon: New Optimum Nutrition for the Mind - Patrick Holford

This guy also goes on and on about the St John's Wort and how great it is. It says the following about St John's wort:

"About 2% of people report side-effects including gastrointestinal symptoms, allergic reactions, anxiety and dizziness. These have often been exaggerated in the media, possibly because more and more people are opting to take St John's wort instead of antidepressant drugs, and the drug companies are fighting back with scare stories in the popular press."

This book recommends another book by a prominent psychiatrist, Dr Hyla Cass, one of the world's leading experts on St John's wort, called St John's Wort: Natures Blues Buster

She gives 10 reasons why she prefers St John's wort to antidepressants:

1. It's side effects are not nearly as severe or frequent.

2. Mixing with alcohol doesn't lead to adverse reactions, as with other antidepressants.

3. It is not addictive.

4. It does not produce withdrawal symptoms when you stop.

5. It does not produce habituation, or the need for increased dosages to maintain its effects.

6. It can be easily stopped and restarted without requiring a long build-up period.

7. It enhances sleep and dreaming.

8. It does not inhibit sex drive as SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) do in some people - and can actually enhance it in some people.

9. It does not make you sleepy in the daytime. In fact, it has shown in experiments to enhance alertness and driving reaction time.

10. According to one report, the annual rate of death by overdose on antidepressant drugs is 30.1 per 1 million prescriptions. No one has ever died from an overdose of St John's wort. In fact, we don't think anyone has even tried to OD with it!


Let me give this a shot. My family doesn't really share my sentiment in thinking we have nothing to lose, my sister works for a large insurance company, and she has basically pushed them as far as possible with sick leave. Sometimes she's been booked off for 3 months. I still maintain it's worth a go.

 

[herondancer]

Hi Erna,

Another thing you might want to look into is micro-nutrients. I heard an interview with Margo Kidder a couple of years after she had her breakdown. She also was bi-polar. She decided that she couldn't handle the lithium and other stuff she was getting and started looking into nutrition, focusing on trace minerals that she might be lacking.

Here is one book called Too Good to be True? Nutrients Quiet the Unquiet Brain by David Moyer. I'm sure there are others:

http://www.bipolarodyssey.com/index.htm

On this info site you need to scroll down to bi-polar. It outlines some conditions of the brain chemicals that figure into state of bi-polarness

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walsh.htm#Bi

You may also want to look into homeopathy which can be very effective but is a long-term commitment.

Good luck, she is fortunate to have a sister looking out for her.

Herondancer

 

[name]

Erna,

this is from my own experience with depression - of which bi-polar is a more grave form.

a) Get your sister off whatever big-name-pharma pills she is taking (what is it, out of curiosity ?). Personally I wouldn't touch anti-depressants and similar things with a stick.

b) Find her a psychologist who will NOT insist that she takes chemicals. If they have nothing to offer but a prescription every two weeks they are not a doctor but a pill-pusher with a license. It is difficult tofind them but they exist. To get out of severe depression is difficult because the patient must work on it, also, the whole situation of the patient should change. The idea is to find a situation, social, work, housing ... environments which are most comfortable for your sister - perhaps however she currently lives is contributing to her problems. Chemicals will only hide the symptoms for a while and probably make things worse.

c) Get your sister out - she should go for a long walk in the nature at least once a week. If possible, have her take a vacation somewhere out of town for a week or so. Bodily work (like f.e. working on a farm) can do wonders.

d) Food - less coffee, less tea, less milk products, more fruits and vegetables. If she eats meat, eat the one which have grown naturally and not in giant feeding farms. Drink LOTS of water. Get rid of thinks like Coke and anything that contains artificial sweeteners, avoid junkfood.

e) St Johns Wort is effective but only for milder forms of depression - and, if your sister has been taking pharma products, her body will be so severely out of whack and it will do no good.

I'd say start by finding her a good psychologist who will help to take her off the pills. Once she's on her way to health, the libido will (hopefully) take care of itself

And, there are lots of good resources on the net about getting out of depression w/o pharma products. Look them up.

I hope this helps. Good morning.

 

[Z...]

Well I am little suprised to see all these advices. These are things that should not be taken so lightly.

The thing is some of serious mental disturbances are the result of malfunctioning brain chemistry, no micronutrients, walk, psychotherapy or st. Johns Wort can help this.

Of all I bear quite a big grudge against allopathic medicine, especially in psychiatry as I have been witness to the big suffering of mentally ill sibling. Yet, I would never advise discontinuing medication, namely lithium.
in most of the bipolar disorders nothing seems to work as good as lithiium.
If there is a mild form then advices given here might help, but if you are dealing with patient which displays severe manic and psychotic episodes which require hospitalization - then there is no alternative to lithium. Full stop.

The damage these people suffer everytime they need to be hospitalized is just not worth the benefits of discontinuation of medication.
For this reason I would never dare to try and cure my sibling's illness homeopathically.

 

[Miss Isness]

Deckard wrote:If there is a mild form then advices given here might help, but if you are dealing with patient which displays severe manic and psychotic episodes which require hospitalization - then there is no alternative to lithium. Full stop.

I wouldn't presume to know what is best in Erna's sister's case, which is why I recommended at naturopathic doctor with knowledge of allopathic medicine. I think some professional advice from a doctor with experience in both schools would be well worth the investment, since even if it is feasible to use only natural remedies, there is still the question of how to make the transition smoothly.

Well I am little suprised to see all these advices. These are things that should not be taken so lightly.

I feel quite comfortable making decisions for myself on the basis of what I've read, but I would never want the responsibility of making a decision for someone else. Not only is there a risk of unexpected consequences for the 'patient', but also for the person giving the advice. There are countless examples of the system being mobilized against people who dare to fly in the face of conventional western medical 'wisdom'.

 

[Z...]

there is still the question of how to make the transition smoothly.

well, that is the crux of the problem,
most of alternative methoda demand completely stopping allopatic medication,
and this is equal to opening of Pandora's box.

I feel quite comfortable making decisions for myself on the basis of what I've read, but I would never want the responsibility of making a decision for someone else. Not only is there a risk of unexpected consequences for the 'patient', but also for the person giving the advice. There are countless examples of the system being mobilized against people who dare to fly in the face of conventional western medical 'wisdom'.

sure, I didnt want to imply contrary, my point was simply that in cases of severe mental ilness conventional medication seems to be the only acceptable solution for the patient and the family. Of course this is not perfect solution and its the question of choosing lesser evil.

I am emphasizing one more time that I am talking about serious conditions, not mild depressions

 

[Erna]

Thanks herondancer, I'll check out those links.

what is it, out of curiosity?

Okay, let's see what's in here:

Zyprexa (5mg) - Lilly (1 tablet daily)
Cipralex (10mg) - Lundbeck (1 tablet daily)
Camcolit (250mg) - Norgine (2 tablets twice a day)
Risperdal (0.5mg) - Janssen-Cilag (4 tablets in the evening)
Normisson (20mg)

The top 2 are depression related I think, and then one of these is sleeping pills, don't know what the others are for.

Find her a psychologist who will NOT insist that she takes chemicals.

Does such a thing exist? One of my old school friends is a psychiatrist, and according to her psychiatrists have always been at war with psychologists. They also accuse them of being "pill pushers". Psychologists on the other hand stand strong on the point that chemical imbalances do exist and can only be fixed with medication. They maintain that you can talk to a psychiatrist until you are blue in the face, it won't fix a chemical imbalance.

in most of the bipolar disorders nothing seems to work as good as lithium.

Yeh, that's basically what they kept repeating to us all these years.

psychotic episodes which require hospitalization

I can tell you stories...

She doesn't have it in a "mild" form, therefor I'm first going to read up as much as I can before I give it a try.

Thanks everyone!

 

[alwyn]

I've read that St John's Wort has been proven to treat depression successfully, and I'm sure there are other natural remedies available for other types of imbalances. .

Hey, late posting, but weighing in for the record. My husband is a trifle bi-polar, and in talking to him and some other people who are manic, St. John's Wort had the opposite effect. It is important when treating herbally to realize that, much like regular drugs, not all herbs work the same way on everybody. Everyone's chemistry is different.

The beauty of herbal treatments is that it allows one to take one's health into one's own hands. But it is NOT an excuse for going by formula, nor should one technically prescribe for other people. It is not critical when one is dealing with colds, and minor ailments, but for major health- issues, there can be liability. I've been a practicing herbalist for about 30 years now, but I've found it is best, when dealing with these major ailments, to point people to current research, and if I can fine tune that, (i.e. direct them to a certain book or practicioner) so much the better .

Bi-polar can be a serious problem, and there is not a lot of consensus in treating it in the naturopathic world.

HOWEVER, all the things that have been discussed can be of aid. I think it's a question of degree. One would certainly not want to stop psych-meds cold-turkey. People can die of this. I would certainly try to find a COMPETENT homeopath. (Like all other medical professionals, it is best to shop around.) When my son was critically ill, I was advised to find a homeopath. Until I could find a local one, I was being advised by one doctor in Guatamala, who was being translated by a woman in Washington (these people were part of a group I belong to, and not unknown to me). One of the best pieces of advice I got from this extremely talented homeopath was that homeopathy is NOT incompatible with allopathic drugs. I was advised to have my son keep taking the drugs WHILE we were treating his symptoms. Once we were able to treat my son,and could see major improvement, we GRADUALLY weaned him off of the drugs, all the while watching for relapse. He remains symptom free to this day. So, competent supervision, and don't do anything drastic is the gist of my advice.

The first premise of a healer is to do no harm, so, in the interests of treating your sister, (and kudos for caring enough to step in!) you CAN practice the things that will do no harm. Dietary changes are part of this. There is some evidence that certain B vitamins are not processed well by the bi-polar individual. This is something that you can supplement with products on hand, (unless the Codex has drastically changed this?) and they will not interfere with the meds.

So, gradual, gentle support, and find a good healer. Good luck on this.

 

[Erna]

One of the best pieces of advice I got from this extremely talented homeopath was that homeopathy is NOT incompatible with allopathic drugs. I was advised to have my son keep taking the drugs WHILE we were treating his symptoms. Once we were able to treat my son,and could see major improvement, we GRADUALLY weaned him off of the drugs, all the while watching for relapse. He remains symptom free to this day. So, competent supervision, and don't do anything drastic is the gist of my advice.

This makes sense. I will take your advice to heart :)

 

[Z...]

When my son was critically ill, I was advised to find a homeopath. Until I could find a local one, I was being advised by one doctor in Guatamala, who was being translated by a woman in Washington (these people were part of a group I belong to, and not unknown to me). One of the best pieces of advice I got from this extremely talented homeopath was that homeopathy is NOT incompatible with allopathic drugs. I was advised to have my son keep taking the drugs WHILE we were treating his symptoms. Once we were able to treat my son,and could see major improvement, we GRADUALLY weaned him off of the drugs, all the while watching for relapse. He remains symptom free to this day.

Hi alwyn,

wz he suffering from bipolar disorder or something completely different?