Hello Again

[clearmiddle]

Hi,

I recently finished reading ISOTM, as it often seems to be called in these parts, and as I was finishing the book and forming many questions I thought about the people here and decided to pay another visit.

I am no stranger to this website or material, but a few years ago I reached a certain degree of understanding about "The Work" and then I couldn't seem to go any further, at least not directly. So I went off in another direction and dealt as best I knew how with what I was going through at the time.

Eventually I began to see connections between what I was experiencing and things I had read about the "fourth way," and last week I sat down and read ISOTM, which had been on my "to read" bookshelf for 5 years. This time I understood much more, moving on past the point where I had been stuck before. I see that I have much work ahead of me. I also am beginning to see more clearly what you are doing here.

The SOTT Forum has been very helpful with my immediate questions, and the Cassiopaea website has been a valuable resource for years. Thank you!

 

[vinny]

...a few years ago I reached a certain degree of understanding about "The Work" and then I couldn't seem to go any further, at least not directly. So I went off in another direction...

...This time I understood much more, moving on past the point where I had been stuck before. I see that I have much work ahead of me. I also am beginning to see more clearly what you are doing here.

it seems that 'networking' is an essential part of the process for various reasons, not least of which is the immense challenge of conquering one's self importance and seeing through one's blind spots via external feedback. Also there is the aspect of putting energy towards shared learning, for the benefit of others, which seems to unlock data that is not available any other way.

welcome to the forum. hope you find what you are looking for here.
maybe an elaboration of your current understanding of 'what we are doing here' might be useful for feedback?

 

[clearmiddle]

Hi Vinny,

it seems that 'networking' is an essential part of the process for various reasons, not least of which is the immense challenge of conquering one's self importance and seeing through one's blind spots via external feedback. Also there is the aspect of putting energy towards shared learning, for the benefit of others, which seems to unlock data that is not available any other way.

Reading ISOTM reminded me of the need to work with other people, although I had experienced this much earlier. That is what brought me here. I haven't directly experienced the kind of shared learning that you describe, though.

welcome to the forum. hope you find what you are looking for here.
maybe an elaboration of your current understanding of 'what we are doing here' might be useful for feedback?

As well as the networking you have already described, I understand that you are pursuing "work" similar to that described in ISTOM or Mouravieff, but organized in a different way and drawing from additonal sources. Taking into account natural laws that tend to impede progress if not understood, people come together to 'awaken' or develop consciousness. There is also the matter of what beneficial effect a small group of conscious individuals might have on the world around them.

You are also providing valuable information, for those that can appreciate it, such as the information about hyperdimensional reality and about psychopaths, among other things. And that information joins with the other ancient information to form a more complete picture. Or at least that is what I saw.

I have spent a very long time going in circles, and I begin to see now why that happens, to me and to everyone. I am looking for what I can do about it, and I do think I will find something here.

 

[Ryan]

Reading ISOTM reminded me of the need to work with other people, although I had experienced this much earlier. That is what brought me here. I haven't directly experienced the kind of shared learning that you describe, though.

Sure you have - you're looking at it right now! :) That's what the forum is about - helping each person take their theory of the Work and transmute it into a personal understanding that can be shared with others who ask, in order to help them do the same. Although we have a fairly condensed base of reading material and factual data, living by these principles is a unique experience that is different for each person. It probably ties in with "karma" and "lesson profiles" to some extent, too.

As well as the networking you have already described, I understand that you are pursuing "work" similar to that described in ISTOM or Mouravieff, but organized in a different way and drawing from additonal sources. Taking into account natural laws that tend to impede progress if not understood, people come together to 'awaken' or develop consciousness. There is also the matter of what beneficial effect a small group of conscious individuals might have on the world around them.

That's a pretty good description IMO, although the bit about the beneficial effect of a small group of conscious individuals is less important. Fact is, we don't know if anything we do will make a difference to the state of the world, but it can be verified that one can certainly change one's own life for the better. Who wouldn't want a life with less chaos and disorder in it?

You are also providing valuable information, for those that can appreciate it, such as the information about hyperdimensional reality and about psychopaths, among other things. And that information joins with the other ancient information to form a more complete picture. Or at least that is what I saw.

Knowledge does protect. Seems like some abstract idea at first, but you'd be amazed at how well it works once you begin to apply it.

I have spent a very long time going in circles, and I begin to see now why that happens, to me and to everyone. I am looking for what I can do about it, and I do think I will find something here.

If you haven't done so yet, I'd recommend reading every "Sticky" thread in each forum - it'll give you plenty of valuable information.

Happy reading! :)

 

[Laura]

That's a pretty good description IMO, although the bit about the beneficial effect of a small group of conscious individuals is less important.

Actually, the potential of the beneficial effect of a small (relatively speaking) group of conscious individuals is the main point. That's the reason for the existence of sott and the forum here and just about everything we do. When this is understood, when the consequences of of this are understood, it changes the person's approach to the work. They understand that they are "debugging units" in a far vaster system.

Fact is, we don't know if anything we do will make a difference to the state of the world,

This is true. It may seem contradictory to the idea of the nucleus of consciousness, but it isn't. It is simply the rule of non-anticipation, becoming a transducer for the Universal energy of creation without telling the Universe what the outcome must be.

but it can be verified that one can certainly change one's own life for the better. Who wouldn't want a life with less chaos and disorder in it?

If a person is only interested in changing their own life for the better, where is the service to others in that?

 

[clearmiddle]

Hi Ryan,

Sure you have - you're looking at it right now! :) That's what the forum is about - helping each person take their theory of the Work and transmute it into a personal understanding that can be shared with others who ask, in order to help them do the same. Although we have a fairly condensed base of reading material and factual data, living by these principles is a unique experience that is different for each person. It probably ties in with "karma" and "lesson profiles" to some extent, too.

I been in the midst of other people engaged in 'shared learning,' but I see that that is not the same as experiencing it myself. I am becoming more aware of multiple I's and how they interfere with many things.

That's a pretty good description IMO, although the bit about the beneficial effect of a small group of conscious individuals is less important. Fact is, we don't know if anything we do will make a difference to the state of the world, but it can be verified that one can certainly change one's own life for the better. Who wouldn't want a life with less chaos and disorder in it?

I mentioned the "small group" effect because I had recently read the "200 men" passage in ISOTM (I don't have the text at hand to quote it), and because I seem to recall seeing a similar theme that recurs from time to time in the material here. I first heard the idea from a group that I worked with much earlier in my life.

In the recent past I have had experiences of trying to do things for other people in a particular local community, and of having them either respond very negatively, or take advantage of me, or both. I can see where you might engage in something that you expect will be beneficial to others without actually doing it "for" others.

The times when I have been of most service to other people in that particular community--according to what they have told me--were times when they asked me to do something that I was readily able to do, that I did without attributing any special significance to it.

If you haven't done so yet, I'd recommend reading every "Sticky" thread in each forum - it'll give you plenty of valuable information.

Happy reading! :)

I have been reading through the 'stickies' bit by bit. Thanks!
--Megan

 

[Ryan]

Actually, the potential of the beneficial effect of a small (relatively speaking) group of conscious individuals is the main point. That's the reason for the existence of sott and the forum here and just about everything we do. When this is understood, when the consequences of of this are understood, it changes the person's approach to the work. They understand that they are "debugging units" in a far vaster system.

True. It seems my understanding is pretty scarce to downplay such a major point.

This is true. It may seem contradictory to the idea of the nucleus of consciousness, but it isn't. It is simply the rule of non-anticipation, becoming a transducer for the Universal energy of creation without telling the Universe what the outcome must be.

Yes. The result does not belong to us.

If a person is only interested in changing their own life for the better, where is the service to others in that?

Nowhere. It seems I approached mb with internal considering rather than external as I thought. I will watch that.

In the recent past I have had experiences of trying to do things for other people in a particular local community, and of having them either respond very negatively, or take advantage of me, or both. I can see where you might engage in something that you expect will be beneficial to others without actually doing it "for" others.

The times when I have been of most service to other people in that particular community--according to what they have told me--were times when they asked me to do something that I was readily able to do, that I did without attributing any special significance to it.

Thanks mb. I apologise for the distorted information I presented to you, which your response has verified for me is not what you were actually asking for. I'll bear in mind what you've said above.

 

[clearmiddle]

Thanks mb. I apologise for the distorted information I presented to you, which your response has verified for me is not what you were actually asking for. I'll bear in mind what you've said above.

Ryan,
Any feedback can be helpful.

I have noticed again and again that I seem to go in circles, and I am trying to see the forces that bring that about. The situation of trying to "do something for someone else" and having it backfire is interesting. I have many recent examples to look at. A few years ago I found myself literally "on the street," very briefly. I was going through a divorce, and I suddenly did not have a place to live. While I was driving away from my house I called someone I knew and discovered that she had a spare room and could use help with the rent. Furthermore, she needed to move and was, with another person that I knew, looking for a new, larger place to live. So I joined the house hunt and we found a place a few weeks later. I imagined that I was solving one of my problems while helping two other people solve theirs.

This venture backfired in many ways. The first thing my friend (the one that gave me a place to stay) and I started to notice was that the third person was a habitual liar. For some reason, we had never noticed that before. I also began to notice that while that person usually presented as fairly coherent, she seemed to be "loony" at times. After a while, I began to suspect a psychopath at work (I was already familiar with the Cass materials).

After a few months we had to have the third person evicted because of pet damage to the house. Not wanting to repeat that experience, we moved to a smaller house where we didn't need anyone else to help with the rent. And the cycle started over. I discovered that this person also had been lying to me, in less obvious ways. I started to notice other parallels. I finally decided to move to yet a smaller place where I could afford the rent by myself. She disappeared, leaving me with a bill for pet damage to her room. A few of my possessions disappeared with her.

This was very confusing for me. I thought I was doing something mutually beneficial, and yet what I really did was open myself up to attack and divert a lot of my energy unnecessarily at a time when I could scarcely afford it. And it was only one of a series of situations where I tried to help and it backfired.

One thing is clear. I believe that if I do A then B will happen. And that's not true. And then I do it again, and something similar occurs, but not quite the same. And then at some point I do C for some other reason, as I mentioned earlier, and B happens! One difference I see is that when B actually happened, I wasn't "telling the Universe what the outcome must be," as Laura put it.

An example of this is that a friend told me that I had made a huge difference in her life just by going out with her, socially, a few times and listening and supporting her. I am not exactly sure what difference I made or what I did to help it come about. I know that what I did was "routine" for me. I enjoyed myself, but I didn't have any special outcome in mind. I am leaving out details because there is another part to the story that I don't want to become a distraction. But she was actually afraid of going out, and I wasn't, and I shared my confidence with her, and she developed her own confidence after that.

I could do that because someone else had done it for me earlier, probably not even knowing what a difference it could make. This time I knew that something desirable could happen, but I didn't try to say exactly what, or to make it happen.

 

[Ryan]

One thing is clear. I believe that if I do A then B will happen. And that's not true. And then I do it again, and something similar occurs, but not quite the same. And then at some point I do C for some other reason, as I mentioned earlier, and B happens! One difference I see is that when B actually happened, I wasn't "telling the Universe what the outcome must be," as Laura put it.

Interestingly, one of the things I am doing at the moment is re-reading the Wave series, and the next bit I opened the book at after reading your post was Chapter 24 - "The Quest for the Holy Grail of Non-Anticipation"! Re-reading the material about Left Brain/Right Brain awareness and the Maidens of the Wells brought an interesting context to your remarks. So - thanks for your feedback Megan.