Free will ?

ELTE2307

ELTE2307

Padawan Learner
In the transcript of 10-09-94, The c's said:

Q: (L) Is F**'s mind programmed?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) To do what?
A: To be an open channel.
Q: (L) By who?
A: Us.

So where's the free will when someone is led to do something he/she could have turned down to do if he/she had the choice or had known of it ?
 
In my opinion, the lack of free will or choice via ignorance is one method of how STS works. When someone is unaware of something, their choices are limited. This is where the importance of knowledge and networking come in.
 
truth seeker said:
In my opinion, the lack of free will or choice via ignorance is one method of how STS works. When someone is unaware of something, their choices are limited. This is where the importance of knowledge and networking come in.
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Yes, if a person has no information or false information it is much easier for STS to get them to fall in with their agenda. This is the main problem facing our world, this lack of knowledge and the amount of falsehoods that are taken as fact , that this forum is working as hard as is possible to rectify.
 
I would take this excerpt with a grain of salt -- that means (for the people for whom English is not a first language) to not accept it uncritically. We know that a certain percentage of the transmissions are noise or are corrupt due to anticipation and wishful thinking on the part of participants.

With what later happened with F***, it is very possible that this exchange is part of that corrupt percentage, and that this was the image that F*** wanted to give about himself. Therefore, drawing any conclusions about free will from this is very chancy -- and the exchange may in fact be a warning about F***.

Laura may be able to elaborate further.
 
ELTE2307 said:
In the transcript of 10-09-94, The c's said:

Q: (L) Is F**'s mind programmed?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) To do what?
A: To be an open channel.
Q: (L) By who?
A: Us.

So where's the free will when someone is led to do something he/she could have turned down to do if he/she had the choice or had known of it ?
Click to expand...

Laura already covered this in the Wave 5 I think.

Have you read it?

Up to 30% of the transcripts are corrupted when Frank and others were involved, usually when the questions were related to him or things he was interested in or people he didn't like.

If you have the Wave 5 you can read all about the Frank episode there and the context of what was going on at the time.

Basically if you don't know already as people have said above, the transcripts are not 100% correct and should be analysed critically and with context given in the Wave series.
 
Hi Franco,

Indeed I didn't read the wave 5. I was just wondering what was the point with this assertion of the C's.
I have the feeling that from time to time the C's "help" us make some decisions of take some initiatives

ELTE
 
Fwiw, I don't read transcripts unless I'm researching for references for some reason. If I had come up with the same question as you, ELTE, the first thing I would do is make a list of the assumptions involved with regard to the interpretation of it. For instance, what do I understand about "free will?" who said any programming was done against F's will or even without his knowledge at some level? Or what kind of programming it was? Also, where did the idea come from that F had any free will, or had enough to amount to anything, or wanted to have/use any free will? Then there's the issue of possible corruption as Galahad pointed out.

So, as to the point for that assertion, I don't have any way of knowing either, and what I said above may be way off, but I guess that's a good reason why the context from the Wave is so important. And being aware of our assumptions and expectations. :)
 
ELTE2307 said:
Hi Franco,

Indeed I didn't read the wave 5. I was just wondering what was the point with this assertion of the C's.
I have the feeling that from time to time the C's "help" us make some decisions of take some initiatives

ELTE
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I'm just curious. What choices have the C's "helped" you to make? I don't know of any they have "helped" me to make. I have read all of the transcripts and have read Laura's material. From all I have read, I have seen that the C's may make suggestions, which are then researched thoroughly and then, at the end it is up to everyone to make the choice that best suits them.

Nobody here takes what the C's say as gospel. Nobody at the chateau are coerced to do anything.

Could you elaborate on just what choices you think we have been "helped" to make?

Like I said, I'm just curious.
 
It's just that if one is programmed one loses her/his free will. That seemed to be the case for F.
Of course, I don't know the full story of F. I was just conjecturing.

Furthermore, in the transcript of 941019, The C's said

Q: (L) I am asking you to help me out here.
A: Can't help with karmic level 1 processes.
Q: (L) What is a karmic level 1 process?
A: Major predestined lesson or mission.

So maybe when they speak of programming they mean predestined mission

ELTE
 
ELTE2307 said:
It's just that if one is programmed one loses her/his free will.
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Hi ELTE,

In my current understanding, one does not lose their free will because they are programmed. We are all programmed to some extent. What I believe happens is that we are programmed but always retain the choice as to whether or not we want to follow the path our programming may lead us or choose a different path.

We may each have a predestined mission, but as I understand it, whether we live up to that mission or not is up to each individual. Laura could have and can at anytime conceivably decide to stop doing the work, but instead chooses each and everyday through her actions to continue. So, while she has a predestined mission, she and she alone chooses whether to fulfill it or not. It is the same for everyone. It was the same for "F".

It is easy to become caught up in the thinking that having a "destiny" allows someone to relinquish personal responsibility. It does not. If we don't choose to work, eat, take care of ourselves what will happen? There are consequences for every action or lack of it. How can it be any different with the universe? There is no separation.
 
potamus said:
It's just that if one is programmed one loses her/his free will.
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Does it matter that someone may have opened the door, and invited knowledge and others in?
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I think this is a good question, potamus. I currently believe that even in that particular context, the choice still lies within the individual. Unfortunately, coming back from that situation will be more difficult as STS will fight to keep its grip on someone. It would depend upon the strength of the individual's will and knowledge that they can overcome the situation. I believe that this applied/applies to "F" as well. The questions that arise for me then are, "Are you willing to take responsibility for the choices you make?" and "Are you willing to fight to maintain the right to choose?"
 
In the case of that particular excerpt, we don't even know for sure who was responding! I get the feeling that as long as F*** was involved, there was always the opportunity for corruption to creep in. For all we know, at that instant, it was the STS guys answering and telling the truth for a change! We notice that later, when F*** was gone, the Cs said the following:

{...}
Q: As you know, we have become aware this evening of F****'s extraordinary conversion to the dark side. Is that an accurate way of perceiving it?
A: Close enough.
Q: Quite a few years ago, there were several remarks made on two or three occasions regarding F****'s battle with the Dark Forces, and the issue of whether or not he would be able to resist their domination. Was it always known that he would fail?
A: He is not a failure.
Q: What do you mean?
A: From the perspective of STS he is a success.
Q: Why was it that we were able to channel STO material, with F**** being so borderline regarding this ultimate choice between STS and STO?
A: He was programmed for the specific purpose of "downloading" from you secrets coded into you before birth of your present body. He failed because you were incorruptible. He is now charged with the mission, in concert with Vincent Bridges, of destroying your ability to accomplish your mission.
Q: Well, that means that there is a strong possibility that the material that came through while F*** was a participant was very likely corrupted. Is that why you gave the figure of 72 percent purity of the material regarding those sessions?
A: Yes.
Q: So, are you saying that F****'s presence produced that 30 percent corruption?
A: Yes.
Q: What was the form that most of that corruption took? Can we identify it?
A: Predictions and terror tactics.
Click to expand...
 
ELTE2307 said:
It's just that if one is programmed one loses her/his free will. That seemed to be the case for F.
Of course, I don't know the full story of F. I was just conjecturing.

Furthermore, in the transcript of 941019, The C's said

Q: (L) I am asking you to help me out here.
A: Can't help with karmic level 1 processes.
Q: (L) What is a karmic level 1 process?
A: Major predestined lesson or mission.

So maybe when they speak of programming they mean predestined mission

ELTE
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You have free will and so do others meaning your free will can be taken away by beings who are ok with doing that.

If you enjoyed the transcripts I highly suggest reading the entire wave series, the transcripts can not be read alone without context.

And you will learn a lot extra and not be so confused with Laura's commentry in the books, I also had questions from reading the transcripts alone that were answered in the Wave Series.
 
Thank's all of you. I read the transcripts twice (without the commentaries of Laura though) and I realise that I sometimes stay too critical and don't let my insight play its part in seeking out the truth.

ELTE
 
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