finding partners...

mrelectric91

Padawan Learner
I think acceptance of unpredictability is the only way to navigate, especially when young. Nothing is guaranteed to happen for you but the psychological deficit of suppressed desires and emotions create an endless cycle, at least going out there consciously and accepting the game for what it is opens at the very least possibilities. Anyway still being only 23 that's how I intend to approach things.
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
mrelectric91 said:
I think acceptance of unpredictability is the only way to navigate, especially when young. Nothing is guaranteed to happen for you but the psychological deficit of suppressed desires and emotions create an endless cycle, at least going out there consciously and accepting the game for what it is opens at the very least possibilities. Anyway still being only 23 that's how I intend to approach things.

One thing that often gets lost in the shuffle is that at 23, the prefrontal cortex is not playing with a full deck. Certain types of reasoning and thought are just out of reach. So, really, it is probably best to kind of hold out until all one's forces are in camp before any major campaigns. I know I was pretty worthless until well past age 25... actually it took me until I was about 32 to kind of get a clue and I am being generous to myself there.
 

mrelectric91

Padawan Learner
BHelmet said:
mrelectric91 said:
I think acceptance of unpredictability is the only way to navigate, especially when young. Nothing is guaranteed to happen for you but the psychological deficit of suppressed desires and emotions create an endless cycle, at least going out there consciously and accepting the game for what it is opens at the very least possibilities. Anyway still being only 23 that's how I intend to approach things.



One thing that often gets lost in the shuffle is that at 23, the prefrontal cortex is not playing with a full deck. Certain types of reasoning and thought are just out of reach. So, really, it is probably best to kind of hold out until all one's forces are in camp before any major campaigns. I know I was pretty worthless until well past age 25... actually it took me until I was about 32 to kind of get a clue and I am being generous to myself there.

I appreciate this, but sorry I think this approach holds men back. By that time most of your peers have a decade plus worth of experience and people can sense inexperience and it isn't attractive even when your young, even teenagers are laughed at for being virgins and never having partners. That stigma turns into a program.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
mrelectric91 said:
BHelmet said:
mrelectric91 said:
I think acceptance of unpredictability is the only way to navigate, especially when young. Nothing is guaranteed to happen for you but the psychological deficit of suppressed desires and emotions create an endless cycle, at least going out there consciously and accepting the game for what it is opens at the very least possibilities. Anyway still being only 23 that's how I intend to approach things.



One thing that often gets lost in the shuffle is that at 23, the prefrontal cortex is not playing with a full deck. Certain types of reasoning and thought are just out of reach. So, really, it is probably best to kind of hold out until all one's forces are in camp before any major campaigns. I know I was pretty worthless until well past age 25... actually it took me until I was about 32 to kind of get a clue and I am being generous to myself there.

I appreciate this, but sorry I think this approach holds men back. By that time most of your peers have a decade plus worth of experience and people can sense inexperience and it isn't attractive even when your young, even teenagers are laughed at for being virgins and never having partners. That stigma turns into a program.

And here we have the program that I was trying to point out. Now, not following the general law turns into a stigma, a programme in itself? REALLY? I'm not one to argue either way.

mrelectric, as there really isn't a right or wrong answer as far as I aware, if the fear of that stigma is overwhelming, dive straight in, into the wide ocean of experience. From there, their are a multitude of lessons to be had. You will be in line with your peers and the stench of that stigma wont be reeking from you. The stigma is real and some can sense it, but not all. Others will act a certain way towards you, but not all. What is the value of someone towards you if they cant see beyond such a thing? The animal to truly be dealt with is not how people see you, it is how you see yourself. You'll definitely, guaranteed have a better image of yourself, naturally. Natural consequence of adaptation and conformity. ;)

PS: I'm having you on just so you know. :D
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Just so all is clear here, all I really meant is that many (most? all?!!) males at age 19 or 21 or whatever under the mid to late 20's do not consider or take into account or even acknowledge that all the cards have not yet been dealt out.

I did not mean to imply that one should or should not act in any particular way. However, certain programs and thought patterns of the lower nature are almost guaranteed to run their course except in extraordinary cases. I remember it being very hard to think too far into the future. If I could have, perhaps my choices would have been different.

Brings to mind some great blues song lyrics by Chris Youlden

When I was a young boy, advice I would scorn
Now I'm gettin' a little older, I know I got a lot to learn
Yesterday's illusions are tomorrow's smiles
I'll look back and laugh, maybe sometime in a while

And it always seems the same and who knows what to blame
If I knew then what I know now, the mistakes I wouldn't have made
But you can't get a sneak preview of the world you're gonna go through
And you have to rely on your body and mind to see the light from shade

Life's the same but time does change perspective of your view
You're lookin' for the mystery but you can't find a clue
Some say a man makes his life, some say that it's fate
But when you find out what to do, oh sometimes it's too late
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
Yes I think the problem is that there is nothing like the mistakes one has made that have caused/is causing suffering, that can make one realize that it was mistakes, and sometimes theory isn't enough to understand that. Though it is natural after having realized how bad mistakes one has made, and how much suffering they cause, to try to warn others not to make the same mistakes

I'll look back and laugh, maybe sometime in a while
:)
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Do they say hindsight is 20/20? I think its very hard to judge whether you made the right choices or wrong choices, depending on what your aim was, without the benefit of hindsight. Even the concept of aim depends on perspective really. Sometimes it turns out that things you thought you wanted, you actually didn't and things you thought you didn't actually prove to surprise you. So, yeah, hard to know.

Miss K you are definitely not a cat lady, not after dispensing with that story... Definitely a lot of past experience to draw upon. There are some things in your post that I would like to ask about if you don't mind. I cant use the quote boxes as I'm on my phone.

First thing, how could you cheat on someone? I'd just like to understand the psychology behind it.

Second, what does sleep together from time to time actually mean?

Third, clearly this person has had a huge amount of influence on you, so much so that you described him in the guise of a polar opposite. You slept together, were best of friends, it was all so uncomplicated, then when you became single, you refused a relationship? I'm confused as to the decision making process..

Regarding all the psychic stuff, I don't know what to say. I'm personally usually quite skeptical about such stuff.
.

Sometimes I think we fall in love with the mystery behind the concept... We then apply a flesh and blood human being to that and it appears that we love them but instead what we really love is the idea of love. Usually, its those that came close but got away that hold this space over the long-term. That's because those we actually got into a relationship with will always deviate from the ideal that we truly love. They end up showing themselves to be mortal, human, mundane. The one who got away still holds an aura of mysticism. They hold the promise of us successfully playing out the love drama that's in our mind, to actualize it in reality and play it to its culmination.

I learnt all that and I haven't had to endure 20 years of relationship experience with different people. Badabing badaboom... LOL.. Or I'm just talking utter nonsense... :D
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
luke wilson said:
Do they say hindsight is 20/20? I think its very hard to judge whether you made the right choices or wrong choices, depending on what your aim was, without the benefit of hindsight. Even the concept of aim depends on perspective really. Sometimes it turns out that things you thought you wanted, you actually didn't and things you thought you didn't actually prove to surprise you. So, yeah, hard to know.

Yes that's the thing, and why I can't say with certainty if the mistakes I've made are mistakes. Let's say I had been happier in life, then I might not have searched as much as I have, though on the other hand if I had still searched while being happier, I would have had more energy and be stronger to do something to ease the suffering for others...


luke wilson said:
Miss K you are definitely not a cat lady, not after dispensing with that story... Definitely a lot of past experience to draw upon. There are some things in your post that I would like to ask about if you don't mind. I cant use the quote boxes as I'm on my phone.

Who knows what cat ladies have experienced,? they only talk to their cats, and nobody else are interested in hearing their stories ;)

luke wilson said:
First thing, how could you cheat on someone? I'd just like to understand the psychology behind it.
I think that people have different motives. In my case I needed a way out of a relationship that I was bound to by guilt and psychological trauma. It was a relationship that was very unhealthy for me (alcoholic boyfriend), and I couldn't get myself to leave just because I suffered (when mummy leaves daddy dies, so psychologically for me back then, leaving meant killing someone, and then I would rather suffer myself). If not traumatized that way I think I would have left before cheating. Being in love with someone else, I could not stay to save my boyfriend from suffering by staying and suffering myself, and that forced me to leave.
(for me cheating is also emotional, even if not acting on it)

luke wilson said:
Second, what does sleep together from time to time actually mean?
Means most of the time not, but giving in to wanting it, and doing so, then thinking it is wrong though I want it, holding on to that for a while, and trying to be the good wife, then seeing how selfishly the partner acts, and being bound to him by trauma, thinking that if I have to spend my life suffering, then let me just have an hour of happiness to live on..(most times we spend together talking about all and everything)

luke wilson said:
Third, clearly this person has had a huge amount of influence on you, so much so that you described him in the guise of a polar opposite. You slept together, were best of friends, it was all so uncomplicated, then when you became single, you refused a relationship? I'm confused as to the decision making process..
I have been pretty confused about that too, I think it was mostly fear (I think he was afraid too)
Usually I have been bound to relationships by the fear that I would kill by leaving. The Man can survive without me (even make a family and be a great dad without me) , so it was very new to feel I had a choice (and of cause as it was the first time I was allowed to say no without killing, I had to try that). Also it would have been the first time I wasn't the strongest in a relationship, as usually relationships was trying to save my father from dying, and I think I was afraid that I would fall, if there was someone to catch me, as the knowing that no one will catch me if I fall, has usually been what has kept me from breaking down (and it's not so easy to trust that someone will actually catch one, when one is sure nobody will, so one who actually is strong enough to be able to, can cause one to panic)
Also there was less than 2 months between finally leaving the boyfriend, before the new one, that there was a huge chemical attraction with showed up, and he was the kind that fitted the profile of saving daddy a lot better, meaning I didn't feel I had the choice)

luke wilson said:
Regarding all the psychic stuff, I don't know what to say. I'm personally usually quite skeptical about such stuff.
Me too, I usually think that people must have a quite vivid imagination, or must have taken drugs, or suffer from wishful thinking that they are psychics, when I hear about weird experiences. I didn't really believe myself, so that's why I was proof checking a lot, with any experience that could be verified (like if I feel very strongly that a person is thinking of me and 10 minutes later I get a mail from that person, I take it as somewhat proof that I actually felt that the person thought of me)

Or I had a dream about a coworker that was on the other side of the earth, who was a work friend, but who I didn't know well, and while working on a project together, so having mail contact about work for a couple of weeks. Then having a dream where I saw her crying, nothing else happened in the dream but seeing her crying and crying. So I wrote that to her and told her the dream, and asked if she was OK, and she answered that all was well, no grief there. And I thought it was just a dream. But then a couple of weeks later she wrote me that her dad (who I had never met and didn't know anything about) had suffered a stroke the night I had the dream (he survived), and her family hadn't wanted to tell her about it, before they knew he was OK, so they told her 3 days later, and since her mother some years before had died from a stroke, when they told her about it, it had ripped up the wounds of her mother dying and she had spend 2 days crying and crying. (there is just no way I could have gotten any information that could explain that)

luke wilson said:
Sometimes I think we fall in love with the mystery behind the concept... We then apply a flesh and blood human being to that and it appears that we love them but instead what we really love is the idea of love. Usually, its those that came close but got away that hold this space over the long-term. That's because those we actually got into a relationship with will always deviate from the ideal that we truly love. They end up showing themselves to be mortal, human, mundane. The one who got away still holds an aura of mysticism. They hold the promise of us successfully playing out the love drama that's in our mind, to actualize it in reality and play it to its culmination.

I learnt all that and I haven't had to endure 20 years of relationship experience with different people. Badabing badaboom... LOL.. Or I'm just talking utter nonsense... :D

Yes I have thought that too (I have analyzed myself a lot because I really wanted to find that it was just projection, so I could find a cure and move on)
I can't know if he is a polar opposite (no way to prove such things), and it doesn't even matter that much if he is or not, as I can't have him anyways, and I'm certainly not going to let it keep me from forming a relationship with someone else if I meet someone that I want a relationship with who wants a relationship with me too. I'm not sure if it is just that he don't think much about me anymore, or if I have cut the connection, but I don't think so much about him anymore, though sometimes out of the blue I feel a sadness that don't feel like mine, and think it might be him that for a moment sighs for the loss.
It was just brought to the surface again, because of this thread, and because everytime I say to myself that I should do EE I refuse, and analyzing why, it is fear of going back to feeling him, and also that being psychic is a tad weird for me, and somehow the psychic thing and him are connected, as it opened some senses that wasn't at all so strong before.

But I know that I don't want a relationship where I can't be myself, no matter if I have chemical attraction (I can have chemical attraction to other men than him, that's not a problem) but have never met anyone else yet that really nurtured me, or where I felt they wouldn't be a burdon, or who didn't need me, but wanted me. And who understood me, instead of projecting their own fantasies on me. If I meet someone that can do that, I wouldn't care much if they are polar or not..
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
luke wilson said:
Do they say hindsight is 20/20? I think its very hard to judge whether you made the right choices or wrong choices, depending on what your aim was, without the benefit of hindsight. Even the concept of aim depends on perspective really. Sometimes it turns out that things you thought you wanted, you actually didn't and things you thought you didn't actually prove to surprise you. So, yeah, hard to know.......
Sometimes I think we fall in love with the mystery behind the concept... We then apply a flesh and blood human being to that and it appears that we love them but instead what we really love is the idea of love. Usually, its those that came close but got away that hold this space over the long-term. That's because those we actually got into a relationship with will always deviate from the ideal that we truly love. They end up showing themselves to be mortal, human, mundane. The one who got away still holds an aura of mysticism. They hold the promise of us successfully playing out the love drama that's in our mind, to actualize it in reality and play it to its culmination.

I learnt all that and I haven't had to endure 20 years of relationship experience with different people. Badabing badaboom... LOL.. Or I'm just talking utter nonsense... :D

Luke, I really like what you have said - so much good stuff. I like where you are coming from too: there is always that element of doubt: "am I just fooling myself again?" that is part of the equation - part of the 'reading error of the machine" that has to be accounted for. And like so many things, it can go either way: add to awakening, OR sleep.

One problem with all this, and I am certainly prone to this, is non-action. "I don't have enough information and I don't know with absolute certainty if my analysis is objective, so I better be careful and not just dive in the water" etc etc

This points to another issue, which, in retrospect, I think I was trying to communicate to Neil, even if in a very roundabout, yet ham-fisted manner. OK here goes:

It relates to systems and the element of doubt and imperfection. And it goes like this:

We occupy a perfect system in which imperfection is a key element.
Designing a belief system or system of thought based on a formula of rigid rules that flow from inaccurate assumptions is subject to flaws and errors. Religion is the perfect example.

Trying to formulate the 4th way as a firm set of responses or answers to life's conundrums is fraught with risk and can become no different than a religion if one approaches it that way. "The 4th way says "X" regarding "Y" situation and dictates action or response or thought "Q".

Even the 4th way in its description, has to allow for novelty and unpredictability. It surfaces when needed and takes no particular form. The point is not 'the system', the point is the aim of waking from sleep; objectivity; REAL BEING. It can involve many different methods and each individual may require a different set of methods for the aim to be realized. There is no "one-size-fits-all".

If there were no novelty, unpredictability, non-linearity and imperfection, the Lizzies WOULD be able to lock us down for all eternity if the world was a totally mechanical system. (B ALWAYS follows A, therefore, all we have to do is create A to get B)

(so, some of the stuff that drives us batty (uncertainty) is actually there to serve and protect...funny)

The mind... and perhaps this is just the lower mind; desires order; predictability; rational explanations. Guaranteed expectations help create buffers, coziness, self-calming and eliminate the need for real thinking. The sleepy-head part of us likes this and seeks it.

Fortunately, if accessed, the higher mental and emotional centers can "see through" this.

And that is part of the horror of it all. But also the beauty. That life is a massive crap shoot to begin with. We begin by rolling dice that we have limited control over. Perhaps we chose the particular crap table or roulette wheel that we needed to play on prior to birth, but once the game begins, that unpredictability factor kicks in. All those scripts intermingle. But we CAN learn to see; to awaken. I think that is faith.

Sheesh, I may just be rambling at this point. I will shut it now and close with this: I heard it put this way once:

"The truth, believed, is a lie."
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Interesting perspective Bhelmet.

I actually don't differentiate between the 4th way and life. Its not a set of rules. I don't get up in the morning and follow a set of rules, I must have flexibility to deal with whatever unpredictable event the world decides to throw at me on any particular day.

I would say the 4th way is living intelligently. Don't get me wrong, there are things in my life that I do very stupidly so life is not perfect, far from it, thus the continuous struggles. Living intelligently at the very least is knowing what you are doing and why you are doing it. Even admitting to yourself when you don't know the why behind certain things you are doing.

Then I think you have to question why you are a certain way or why things are a certain way or 'have to be' a certain.

Basically I think just approaching life intelligently... Not necessarily making right decisions but rather just having an intelligent outlook. It's not a set of rules, it's a way of being. That's at least what I took it to mean when the cs said life was religion.

I'll be as honest about the whole finding partners and how it applies to me personally...

- I probably haven't placed myself in a position as to increase the chances of finding someone. You see, I don't think these stuff just happens. There are lots of things happening in the background that most people ignore or just don't know. There is a science behind it that functions quite normally and quite naturally, that is, until it doesn't for you personally!

Ok, so one is probably wrong positioning. Probability drastically reduces. This is not intelligent 'unpositioning', it is as a result of 'consequence'. Call it bad luck. I realized it when I was already drowning.

- Second, for the love of me, I cannot be blinded by lust. I don't know why I can be so easily blinded by food addiction, so blinded to take relentless action, like a crazed animal... But lust just doesn't do it. I've seen guys who cant help but make moves. Ain't no move making here. Why? I just don't like how it feels, this move making, this playing out of something. I don't like the feeling of that type of hunger, desire, lust. It feels like I'm trying to fill something in myself, that I'm trying to steal something from someone else. It only feels like theft because of the lie you probably have to say to get it... No one will sleep with you if you just tell them, 'i want to sleep with you'... What are they crazy? They'd be sleeping with everyone then... You then have to feed them a whole bunch of lies and the best most adept liars are those who actually believe what they are saying.

I walk down the street on a hot summers day and see a whole bunch of female flesh. My body is like, yeah, attracted to that 1, yeah and that, oh yes, don't forget that over there, plus that walking her dog... In my mind I am thinking, omg! How in Gods planet am I meant to tell these females apart in order to spot that elusive polar opposite. What chance do I stand when my body is like a deranged dog in heat. So what do I do? When it all becomes overwhelming... Switch off, blanket scepticism. Distrust that particular signal, sending false messages. Malfunctioning. We will feel the heat but we ain't making no moves.

So yeah, those 2 things have combined to deadly effect. I'm standing in the wrong position, and the only thing that can get me to the right position is a desire to 'procreate' and despite feeling the biological desire, I am not moved to change my position.

You think the whole world is out mating and multiplying because people are intelligent? Pfffft... Look around you and see the apparent order in the chaos. Design combined with innate drive to procreate and the result is inevitable.

Where does this high ideal 'LOVE' fit into all the above... First of all, 99% of the time I say it doesn't. People like to label things and add meaning to things.. Why? Because it makes them feel good, it makes their life have meaning... Most of the time its just people mating like animals, getting stuck together and having no choice but to lead a whole life together because they are bound by mortality. They make peace with it, become content look at their fellow man who is doing the exact same thing and that is that, the life chosen.

But does it actually exist? This 'LOVE'? Uhmm yeah.. But you have to see things for what they are... Love is when 2 people stop lying to each other and coming up with BS reasons for how they are acting or why they are acting that way. Love is honesty.

But love doesn't mean much... Nature needs you to procreate. That's the bottom line.

Anyways, yeah, helloooo warped views.
 

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
BHelmet said:
I did not intend to single anybody out.

I don't disagree. BTW, I look at this discussion as kind of like a connoisseur thing. Comparing notes on wine tasting or something like that. I intend no personal attack. Just tossing ideas back and forth.
I did not feel singled out or attacked, I just didn't particularly agree with what was written. I knew my thinking was kind of emotionally colored and the post was going to come out a bit barbed, so I tried to give you a bit of a warning at the beginning.
BHelmet said:
Have you never seen a movie twice and seen things the second time you missed in the first viewing? But, yes, I agree that if we have been down a certain road and a path seems to lead down the same road, we are better off in not going again.
Well this particular movie is kind of like The Road. It's very depressing and once you've seen it once you really don't want to watch it again. Ok, things haven't gotten quite as bad as that movie depicts, but getting there.
BHelmet said:
I think this is an oversimplification. If a person is confronted by the presence of their polar opposite, aren't there going to be powerful feelings? And how are we supposed to know if it is the real deal or just another mirage?
Redfox already pretty much covered this. In addition, when I wrote that I was thinking of when I briefly went through a "playing the field" phase and I quickly lost interest in how silly the whole concept of going out on dates was to meet people. The whole thing felt so plastic. It really is a "game" based on how well you can tell each other "sweet nothings" [lies] in order to create this romantic fantasy so you can ultimately "have a good time" in the sexual sense. I realize there are different ways to go out on dates, but they're more for when you already have something, in my opinion. I don't think the polar opposite appears in the typical dating game structure. Ok, so that was a bit of a tangent. Moving on...
BHelmet said:
I don't know that those who use the general law to their own benefit need to maintain it. Isn't it just a description of existence here? A given, like the rules of the ball game? As for a duty to the Law of Exception, I see it as a choice, not a duty.
Well, as we were discussing on another thread, the rules of the game have been modified by those who have an interest in making the game harder than it needs to be in order to farm people's suffering. One example that relates to this thread in my mind, is the dichotomy between the mating program and the bonding program, as discussed in Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. Why do we have this hardwired desire to be moderately promiscuous and spread our DNA around via "hot sex," which becomes miserable once the hormones burn out, while the only thing that will give us emotional/spiritual satisfaction is a more or less monogamous relationship that is based on bonding sex which goes against the body's normal drives and doesn't produce as many offspring? Assuming humanity was designed by some rational creative force, why couldn't the two be combined in some way that would lead to less suffering? Why isn't bonding sex the default paradigm, with perhaps a little bit of "wildness" thrown in there to make sure the population maintains a certain size without the hormonal crash? It makes no sense to me unless you consider it from a 4DSTS perspective, then it makes perfect sense. It seems our bodies were intentionally designed to keep us within as narrow a range as possible, while maximizing the potential for suffering, which of course feeds the moon rather nicely. To paraphrase the Pleiadans in Bringers of the Dawn, these new creator gods are certainly a lot different from the old ones.

As for the Law of Exception, I think it is really only a choice until you decide to cross the First Threshold. After that, it becomes a duty because everything becomes subsumed to climbing the staircase and finding a way to get out of prison, or you fall and quite possibly get destroyed. It doesn't happen all at once, but it becomes harder and harder to distract yourself from that looming image of the Staircase, towering over you, you feel bad when you do something against the aim of getting out. My personal experience with it is that you feel like something is pulling you in a certain direction, and then if you drag your feet for too long you get a bit of a kick in the butt, that says, "Quit standing around and get to work." It took on a sort of "do or die" existential crisis for me.
BHelmet said:
No, it was not more hopeful. In my opinion, it was more bleak than today. However, I do agree that when the SHTF, it will be worse today.
I don't know, it seems like in the past there were more ways to escape the omnipresent overbearing Orwellian presence, that basically has bent everything on the planet to its will. Societies and individuals today are less able to resist its influences because it has become so monolithic and interconnected. I agree with you that there were never really any "Good Ole Days," but perhaps ones that were less bad? Maybe not, this is only my opinion and there are some good counterexamples.
BHelmet said:
Hey, I hated kids when I was a young man. And I was tremendously negative. Life looked like a sick joke of a farce to me. As I look back , I can see that, for me anyway, while there is an aspect of truth to this, there was more going on at the time than that
I can certainly understand that, from a 3D perspective it does seem a "sick joke." The only difference between that attitude and mine is that I can see that there are other levels beyond the "sick joke," and some of them are beautiful. It gives me hope, but they feel oh so far away...

I basically agreed with the rest of that post. I know the part you were referring to where Mouravieff refers to the three esoterically legitimate relationships. I'm also not completely sold on the number of potential partners Mouravieff describes being totally accurate. There must be an awful lot of souls in the universe... In addition, I think you would probably have a variety of different relationships with a polar opposite over many different lifetimes. Father, mother, brother, sister, there are many different ways to experience and understand love outside of just being partners. I think all these relationships are required to understand true love, and that souls belong to certain groups where the roles are constantly changing in order to get the full picture.

These two remarks are related:
BHelmet said:
It is a good thing to reflect on the true source of strong emotional reactions.
BHelmet said:
Trying to formulate the 4th way as a firm set of responses or answers to life's conundrums is fraught with risk and can become no different than a religion if one approaches it that way. "The 4th way says "X" regarding "Y" situation and dictates action or response or thought "Q".

Even the 4th way in its description, has to allow for novelty and unpredictability. It surfaces when needed and takes no particular form. The point is not 'the system', the point is the aim of waking from sleep; objectivity; REAL BEING. It can involve many different methods and each individual may require a different set of methods for the aim to be realized. There is no "one-size-fits-all".

My perceived rigidity comes from the fact that I have experienced a situation similar to what Miss K describes. Part of the reason I haven't posted in three days is because I have my own little emotional dramas over a perceived "lost love." Part of the reason I invested so much energy in this thread is to deal with my personal faults. Here's my story:

We first met when I was 15. We looked at each other and there was just something qualitatively "different" about her that I couldn't explain. I wanted to say something, but I didn't want to be weird and we passed by each other and nothing happened. It was a few months later that I stumbled upon the Cassiopaean Transcripts, which later led me to this website. As a teenager, I had mixed feelings towards romantic relationships. On the one hand, I thought a lot about what a true romantic relationships would be like, and on the other hand I thought it was a distraction. My parents considered intelligence/career to be more important than relationships. I tended to agree, and internalized this attitude to a greater degree than I think they intended.

I was 17 the first time we actually talked, by that time I had read The Wave, which put a few ideas in my head and had heard of the concept of polar opposites, but I hadn't read Gnosis and didn't know that much about it. I wondered if the concept of polar opposites was possible, and fantasized about what it must be like. I had never considered a relationship seriously and really lived in my head. So along comes this girl out of the blue who starts talking to me about UFOs and astral travel and psychic bonds and all sorts of things. Well, I was definitely intellectually attracted to her.

Then she started trying to work on me emotionally, which I couldn't understand because she was engaged to be married. This part of the relationship was heavily influenced by psychic phenomena, which I detailed the high points in a post at the time http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,6160.msg42355.html#msg42355 One detail I left out about the chakra thing is that she claimed that our energies fit together perfectly. All of her talk about unconditional love gradually melted my heart despite my attempt to resist, and I found myself wanting to be around her all the time because she seemed so "pure." Also, similar to what Miss K described, there was a night when I was suddenly overcome by a sudden depression that I knew wasn't mine. When I asked her if something bad had happened over the weekend, she told me that she had gotten into a fight with her boyfriend at about the same time I had the experience. To say it was mind-blowing to be able to experience that level of connection with someone else doesn't really do it justice. It seemed like the universe was confirming all of my wild daydreams about polar opposites were in fact, possible. That lead to an emotional attraction where I wanted to be around her all of the time.

I didn't speak much of the physical attraction in that post because I didn't think such things belonged on a "research forum." It is interesting to note that I had absolutely no sexual interest in anything at all almost the entire time this was going on. Towards the end, something had happened to her, and I found myself kind of holding her and she liked being comforted by me and sort of caressed my chest and suddenly my body was on FIRE. Thus started the physical attraction.

After that, I started to think of such concepts as soul fusion, sex was only stepping stone to get to something much deeper and incomparably richer. Like in the quote from Mouravieff I posted a while back about the trap being laid by the General Law, with all of the centers in alignment, I was utterly consumed by the desire to be united.

So how did it end? Well, I was pretty judgmental about her lifestyle, she wanted to settle down and have kids and I wanted to go off to college and "make something of my life." There was also the fact that she was now married. The last day that we spoke, I made in hindsight what is something of a curious remark. I said, "I can't hold up my end of the bargain, I have my own path. Please forget that I ever existed." She nodded with understanding and then I changed my mind and added, "please visit me every six months." I was referring to her alleged ability to communicate through dreams, not a physical visitation.

After we split, I was able to push the whole thing out of my mind for awhile and write it off. My way of doing things was so much better, I was just deluding myself about this connection that we had, there was no way it could've ever worked out, etc, etc. So that period lasted, surprise, surprise, about six months. Suddenly all of the ardent desire for "unification" came surging back. I started having dreams about her and it seemed like we still had this tenuous connection. I suddenly went into a depression, feeling like I had lost a great treasure and a piece of my soul. So began my "playing the field" phase, so I could find someone who could plug up that hole.
The thing was, no one could even come close to her, there was no comparison. I felt even worse. This went on for about a year and a half, until it got so bad that I decided to see if I could find her on the computer. It turned out she still lived in town and had a newborn son, I sent her a little message, not romantic at all. When I visited the page again, she had deleted the message, but changed her status message to, paraphrasing, "I'm happy with this life, children are for me, married life is for me, but there are some things that I can't have in this life."

I got the point, I was a fool. I had to bury this and get over it, forget that it ever happened. After much effort, grief, and sadness, I was able to pretty much push her out of my mind a second time. I didn't ever want to feel like that again. I would make sure not to make such grave mistakes in judgment as to have to experience that pain ever again. I was overtaken by a certain numbness. So now, you see how I got this rather pedantic fascination with perfection, because I've been trying to avoid making the same mistake. It is an emotional wound that this thread brought back to the surface. We're not quite at the end of the story, however.

About two years after that, I run across her and her family in Wal-Mart. The memories started to stir once again. This time, however I remembered my promise to myself that I would not make such a mistake again, and besides we had chosen our own separate paths. I quickly darted into an aisle so that she wouldn't see me. It didn't take long to forget about the incident.

Another two years go by and she shows up at my work. By this time, I can't even look at her because I don't want to go back and reopen things that are dead and buried. She either didn't notice me or ignored me. However, this time something "stuck." I wasn't able to quite suppress the emotion and tell myself it didn't happen a fourth time. And sitting here talking to you about it, it seems like it all happened yesterday.

So here I am, 9 years after the "relationship" still talking about it. I don't know if she was a polar opposite, even though she basically passed all of the "tests." We did have our differences, though as I've gotten older I have come more around to her way of thinking on many things. The main reason is, I had done almost no work on myself at that time, I was not even familiar with most of the concepts. It could've really been a case of hormones gone wild, perhaps with 4D STS keeping me entertained with some "experiences" in order to lure me into a trap. If she was a polar opposite, I wasn't ready anyway and it probably would've ended badly.

So at the end of the day, it looks like the 4th Way is the crucial tool for accomplishing anything. I think Luke's description of it is pretty much on the money. As Redfox astutely saw, it's time to stop running from the "bad feelings."
 

RedFox

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Neil said:
So at the end of the day, it looks like the 4th Way is the crucial tool for accomplishing anything. I think Luke's description of it is pretty much on the money. As Redfox astutely saw, it's time to stop running from the "bad feelings."

The following may be useful in that regard. Acceptance of reality is key to ending the suffering of emotional pain
"We can't act to change things until we recognize them as they really are." [..]
Again, emotional pain is part of all our lives. However, we create needless suffering when we don't accept reality. We stop ourselves from making healthy changes. When we practice acceptance, we let ourselves move on, we open the door to freedom and we take steps to improve our lives. Acceptance can be hard. But it's something we can practice.

So after hearing everyone's experiences I thought I'd share some of my own.
As a pre-teen I was thoughtful and compassionate by comparison to other boys and had quite a few female friends because they could talk to me.

As a teenager I became depressed and isolated (for many reasons, one being some pretty scary high strangeness - which ironically is what led me to find the forum in the end, it's one of my first posts here).
Needless to say the mix of hormones and sudden lack of confidence meant I ended up completely isolating myself (especially from female company).
Collage was a bit calmer (I could loose myself in my studies), university turned into an escape from the reality I was faced with. I 'fell in love' and because a rescuer and enabler of a girl who was bipolar among other things.

I tried being the 'white night', the 'bad boy' and eventually set her up with my best friend (they both really liked each other) in order to show 'how much I loved her'. It didn't seem crazy to me at the time... :shock:
Reality did hit me at that point when I finally saw they where together - it was so painful I wanted to die. I completely rejected what I was feeling even whilst I was feeling it.
Depression, prozac, creeping health problems, failed university twice and passed on the third attempt. Unemployment and self inflicted social isolation.
It was at this point when I started wondering what the point of life was/if I even had a soul.

I got involved with many different online communities as it felt safer (less chance of pain) than interacting in real life, and I'd 'concluded' I didn't fit anywhere at this point so was actively searching.
Through searching for explanations of my high strangeness I ended up in some new age online communities, and made friends from around the planet. I met some of them in real life too and can say that I experienced a deep feeling of kinship/family with more than a few people (as Niel and Miss K described) - more than once did I think someone might be 'the one'.

I learned that I could 'be present' wherever they where on the planet (much like Miss K described, except I was the presence) and became so attuned that I could wake up and turn my computer on precisely when they would get online. I shut all that down and shoved it under the rug when one night I couldn't stop crying. I knew it wasn't me and the next day I found out it was one of my friends.

I went through some online/long distance relationships and cheated for the same reasons Miss K describes. Went through a few real life relationships (and finally lost my virginity in my late 20's) culminating in a 7 year relationship that lasted out of fear , projection and chemicals. I had enough drama in the first few years to make Jerry Springer look tame. I also got to be 'weekend Dad' for her two boys.

So why share all this? Some of the most important lessons I've learned are how isolated we feel until we learn that others have been through what we have - that we are not alone and that others know how we feel.
I can look back and say that having someone know how you feel is deeply healing. It's also what tends to drive us into relationships - it's the hole we are trying to fill.
If you consider the linked article above about hiding and avoiding our painful feelings, perhaps you can see that even that drive comes from the same behavior.

Everything in my life 'just happened' because 'I was trying to make the pain go away!'. The irony being that the pain was 1000 times worse because of how I avoided it, and because of lacking the tools to accept it.
It may seem like an absurdly simple thing now from my perspective but I also remember how it felt to be on the other side of all that. How if I let go (energetically) it felt like the end of the world. That I was some sort of monster for not having lost my virginity and not fitting in socially. That I was worthless without others to give me meaning (in a mechanically passive narcissistic way, all driven by avoiding and ameliorating others 'painful feelings'). That even the idea of approaching my emotions felt like death. At how much I wanted a 'normal life' that felt unattainable (because of my own automatic isolation).

Having practiced acceptance of my feelings, thoughts, chemicals etc (that is observed them curiously and compassionately, without identification or judgement) things changed. I no longer waste so much energy in creating additional mechanical suffering, which means less black and white thinking/fixation/narratives, less lies and being more able to face the often painful truth about things. It does require more conscious effort though, because a 'normal life' seems quite easy now I have freed things up.

Should it happen that I meet my polar opposite in this life, hopefully this means I can be present for them and be able recognize them simply by not being in my own way. That may be over simplifying it, but it feels like the first step.
Not having the same underlying drive 'to find someone to take the pain away' though means this is no longer such a burning need, which is just as much a relief as knowing I can handle and be present with emotional pain.
Being present for others though, can be done through networking here in as full awareness of the self as possible :)
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
luke wilson said:
- I probably haven't placed myself in a position as to increase the chances of finding someone.
Hi Luke. Not sure I totally understand 'positioning', but that won't really affect what I have to say.
luke wilson said:
- Second, for the love of me, I cannot be blinded by lust. I don't know why I can be so easily blinded by food addiction, so blinded to take relentless action, like a crazed animal... But lust just doesn't do it. I've seen guys who cant help but make moves. Ain't no move making here. Why? I just don't like how it feels, this move making, this playing out of something. I don't like the feeling of that type of hunger, desire, lust. It feels like I'm trying to fill something in myself, that I'm trying to steal something from someone else. It only feels like theft because of the lie you probably have to say to get it...
Isn't that a good thing? An indicator that you are waking up? that you reject all this?
luke wilson said:
No one will sleep with you if you just tell them, 'i want to sleep with you'... What are they crazy? They'd be sleeping with everyone then... You then have to feed them a whole bunch of lies and the best most adept liars are those who actually believe what they are saying.
On the first part - how do you know that?; have you tried that approach? After all, it is more honest. But anyway, the point is not to just sleep with someone. Isn't the point more to find a counterpart who will support you in your aims? And how can that happen if you are not honest about who you are and where your head is at? As for the 2nd part, aren't you saying you have no interest in the STS feeding aspect, anyway? There may be assumptions about where women's heads are at as well that are not accurate. When I actually started really listening to women instead of just being entranced by all the rubbish in my head, I discovered I had been pretty clueless.
luke wilson said:
I walk down the street on a hot summers day and see a whole bunch of female flesh. My body is like, yeah, attracted to that 1, yeah and that, oh yes, don't forget that over there, plus that walking her dog... In my mind I am thinking, omg! How in Gods planet am I meant to tell these females apart in order to spot that elusive polar opposite. What chance do I stand when my body is like a deranged dog in heat. So what do I do? When it all becomes overwhelming... Switch off, blanket scepticism. Distrust that particular signal, sending false messages. Malfunctioning. We will feel the heat but we ain't making no moves.
Sounds smart to me given where you are at.
luke wilson said:
So yeah, those 2 things have combined to deadly effect. I'm standing in the wrong position, and the only thing that can get me to the right position is a desire to 'procreate' and despite feeling the biological desire, I am not moved to change my position.
the idea that getting to the right position is tied to the desire to procreate sounds odd to me - I don't quite get it.
luke wilson said:
You think the whole world is out mating and multiplying because people are intelligent? Pfffft... Look around you and see the apparent order in the chaos. Design combined with innate drive to procreate and the result is inevitable.
No disagreement here. But, I don't think it is all just driven by a desire to procreate, though. People have a lot of psychological programs that feed into the dynamic as well. Maybe even more so.

Ok here is my bottom line communication on all this: kind of like G saying Life Is Real Only Then, When " I Am ".

So if it is all a deranged morass of dysfunction, why not just be yourself? Be true to who you are. Just come out and share where you are at. Share that you are put off by all the programming and dysfunction. Share your real thoughts and your understanding about life and its pitfalls; including the sexual aspects and both your desires as well as your reluctance. Share your desire to walk the path or the way. Don't play the game. This requires letting go of all the social programming - ie, what will they think of me? Who cares! IF you are really being who you are and true to your aims, I think that is the best 'positioning'. That will also do the 'weeding out' process for you. And you may be surprised by the honesty you get in return. If you want honesty and candor in a relationship you must also give it. If that blows up the relationship, then that is probably not a relationship you want to be in anyway.

with the usual OSIT, YMMV disclaimers...
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
RedFox said:
I tried being the 'white night', the 'bad boy' and eventually set her up with my best friend (they both really liked each other) in order to show 'how much I loved her'. It didn't seem crazy to me at the time... :shock:

Thanks for making me laugh in a healthy way, very elegantly put :)

And thank you much to everyone who shared, it is indeed very nice to know that one isn't the only freak, and that perhaps sharing in the first place wasn't as embarrassing and idiotic as I feared, since it made others share.

I agree with the acceptance thing,
..just pretty hard to accept when acceptance is disturbed by being visited by astro body or what ever the semi physical thing is, and hard to say no to when one wants it at the same time, thus my wanting to shut down psychic abilities, though I'm perhaps out of danger, as I think he has letten go, and that it probably wont happen anymore. -I can survive an evening of slightly sad feeling that is not my own when it only happens once or twice a year as it has the last two years (in the start when he stopped thinking of me I was as sad as relieved)

I 'm not sure if any of us who think that we might have met the polar have or not
(in my case I hope not, as then I have at least a chance to find love in the future, -hehehe and maybe he both plays guitar and understand me :wow: )
Though the all of a sudden opening up to something that gives psychic abilities by contact with another person sounds like it, I can't know if it would have happened anyways, or by other means.

I have often before in relationships been able to feel my partner, as feeling sad when they were sad (though in different places) or knowing if my boyfriend was talking to a woman he found attractive when I wasn't present, (I'd say when I saw him "what were you doing at 3 o'clock" and he's say "we were only talking" though I already knew that) But never before the semi physical touch, or sniffing puppies or anything as crazy as that.
I'm just saying this in case someone who reads this thread and have sensed someone, don't think it means someone is polar opposite just because they can feel them (as in that case I'd have several polar opposites)

Thanks again all for being here, It is a lot less lonely, being among good people, even if it's online :flowers:



PS: Luke, there is no need for lying to get someone to have sex with you, usually all that is needed is to see them for what they are and give them what they need (what they need you will notice once you stop "wanting to pet the cat for your sake") OSIT
 

Thebull

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I think this thread has provided a wealth of knowledge regarding relationships thanks to all. The post by axj regarding emotional co-dependency explained my issues in my late teens and early twenties. Saying that if I hadn't experienced the said relationships I wouldn't' have even looked at my own failings and eventually taking responsibility to work on myself to heal my emotional wounds. I took a long time out where I was terrified to let anyone come remotely close to me. Time can be a great healer and I wouldn't change a thing though I made many mistakes. If you don't make mistakes you can't learn imo but of course if you know your machine well your choices would be much better for you in the long term.

I am amazed by some of the main contributors to the thread who have consciously chosen to wait until they find their polar opposite or soul mate to develop a relationship. You have decided to work on yourselves, I feel that your level of consciousness and dedication to the work is something that I have not come across in my lifetime except on this forum. You can feel lonely at times but even in relationships if it is not co-linear there are times that loneliness becomes part of your life.
 
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