finding partners...

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
luke wilson said:
Out of curiosity, a polar opposite, are they similar or are they different to you?

I understand from some articles I read awhile back from SOTT and just general observation that the saying opposites attract is not really accurate. People form relationships, either friendships or romances based on similarities, not opposites/differences. Your friends or lovers tend to have a similar religious outlook so for example its rare you find an extreme of lets say evangelical Christian romanticising a staunch muslim, similar educational backgrounds, similar socio economic backgrounds etc. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but generally, the rule is this stuff is formed based on sameness, not differentness.

So, polar opposite, are they the same or are they different, generally speaking? What does the theory say, anyone know? As I understand, opposites are different. So if they are different, what is the basis for attraction?

I don't know, so my observation might be wrong, but I think there are similarities.
A Christian and a Muslim might be very similar in that they are religious, or two might have a different way of searching for the same, like Ark through science, and Laura through all the "weird stuff" of the spirit world. (I'm sure there is a better word for it than "weird stuff" but it escapes me at the moment)

Looking at photos of Laura and Ark, though they look very different, they also have some very similar facial features, or so it seems to me.

Another famous couple who might have been polar opposites (I don't know) is John Lennon and Yoko Ono, and though he is Caucasian and she is Asian they look very similar in their facial features.

But I might be wrong, and what I see might be similar to that dogs and their owners look alike often....dunno
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Alada said:
luke wilson said:
So, if your opposite is knee deep in the general law, making crazy decisions and choices at every turn, this affects you negatively through some connection and makes your life that much harder? Isn't that just great to know!

Why look at it that way around? What if the way we act and lead our lives can help those around us, directly, indirectly, which might in turn help one’s polar opposite wherever they may be? The more clarity and stability we can achieve for ourselves, maybe that helps them all the more. What one gains, all gain, what one looses, all lose.

My personal experience is that leading by example is highly over-rated. The other person has to want to see and desire to cast off their blinders; to struggle to grow from their own commitment. If they do not seek to overcome their mechanical blindness; if they do not seek the truth, no amount of actions by a someone seeking the way is going to cause a person firmly clinging to the general law to change their course.
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Miss.K said:
But we must be careful: they should sacrifice everything which is theirs. For if, esoterically speaking, man has the right to make sacrifices, he has no right to accept them. An agreed sacrifice abolishes karma, a sacrifice that is accepted multiplies it.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what he means by accepting sacrifice here.
If someone who understands it could give an example in language for dummies, I'd be much grateful :flowers:

Here is my attempt: I can choose to make a sacrifice of my own free will - that may initiate conscious suffering; it may be the fulfillment of some karma; but if I do it consciously and intentionally, I can make that choice for myself.

But if I knowingly accept the sacrifice of another; for my own comfort or benefit; then it karmically binds me to that other person. It is kind of by definition an STS act of knowingly taking from that other person that dampens my own stated purpose of amplifying my STO choices.

Simpler: if you do it for me, and I accept, then it binds and obligates me to you; if you do it out of a free will choice, then that is your problem!

?
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
BHelmet said:
Miss.K said:
But we must be careful: they should sacrifice everything which is theirs. For if, esoterically speaking, man has the right to make sacrifices, he has no right to accept them. An agreed sacrifice abolishes karma, a sacrifice that is accepted multiplies it.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what he means by accepting sacrifice here.
If someone who understands it could give an example in language for dummies, I'd be much grateful :flowers:

Here is my attempt: I can choose to make a sacrifice of my own free will - that may initiate conscious suffering; it may be the fulfillment of some karma; but if I do it consciously and intentionally, I can make that choice for myself.

But if I knowingly accept the sacrifice of another; for my own comfort or benefit; then it karmically binds me to that other person. It is kind of by definition an STS act of knowingly taking from that other person that dampens my own stated purpose of amplifying my STO choices.

Simpler: if you do it for me, and I accept, then it binds and obligates me to you; if you do it out of a free will choice, then that is your problem!

?

Thank you, makes sense :)

BHelmet said:
Alada said:
luke wilson said:
So, if your opposite is knee deep in the general law, making crazy decisions and choices at every turn, this affects you negatively through some connection and makes your life that much harder? Isn't that just great to know!

Why look at it that way around? What if the way we act and lead our lives can help those around us, directly, indirectly, which might in turn help one’s polar opposite wherever they may be? The more clarity and stability we can achieve for ourselves, maybe that helps them all the more. What one gains, all gain, what one looses, all lose.

My personal experience is that leading by example is highly over-rated. The other person has to want to see and desire to cast off their blinders; to struggle to grow from their own commitment. If they do not seek to overcome their mechanical blindness; if they do not seek the truth, no amount of actions by a someone seeking the way is going to cause a person firmly clinging to the general law to change their course.

I think that you're maybe talking about being together with a partner, and somehow trying to lead them, and Luke and Alada are talking about how polar opposites are 2 parts of a whole, and so, even if they haven't met yet, the actions and level of knowledge and being of one will affect the other..
 

Keyhole

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
luke wilson said:
Out of curiosity, a polar opposite, are they similar or are they different to you?

I understand from some articles I read awhile back from SOTT and just general observation that the saying opposites attract is not really accurate. People form relationships, either friendships or romances based on similarities, not opposites/differences. Your friends or lovers tend to have a similar religious outlook so for example its rare you find an extreme of lets say evangelical Christian romanticising a staunch muslim, similar educational backgrounds, similar socio economic backgrounds etc. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but generally, the rule is this stuff is formed based on sameness, not differentness.

So, polar opposite, are they the same or are they different, generally speaking? What does the theory say, anyone know? As I understand, opposites are different. So if they are different, what is the basis for attraction?

Alada: Just seen your post. I suppose I am looking at it from a negative angle.
I would say that the main reason why you don't witness as many inter-faith marriages is predominantly due to societal conditions and social factors. I don't think the concept of polar opposites should be approached in a superficial way. By this I mean that those superficial "differences"/A influences (ie religious background, social class etc) are only surface level and that they are bear no reflection of ones higher self.

From what I think I understand, for polar opposites: One has certain strengths, talents and abilities that the 'other' does not have and these could be described as the other's "weak points". Whereas that one possessed certain strengths, talents and abilities that are the others "weaknesses". This is in relation to the Work. Hence the couple acting together as one, Working together, and utilizing each others strengths can rapidly develop esoterically speaking. What one has, the other does not have (and vice versa). Laura speaks of the "androgynous being", how for one to develop spiritually their energies must be balanced and this applies here. Working in conjunction with one's polar opposite is an aid to balancing the masculine and feminine energies within oneself. And only when the two seekers have performed a great deal of Work on themselves can this "fusion" take place.

So in relation to the term "opposite", I don't think it applies to the A influences in one's life. For example I may perceive someone to be very different to me superficially speaking, when deep down, without false personality we may actually be very alike in BEING. The term "opposites attract" applies here also IMO. I think if one is in the Work, then the attraction to their polar opposite may come from the recognition of their polar opposite's strengths and the acknowledgement of ones own strengths/weaknesses and how this connection could benefit them both in the Work. Some kind of inner knowing that the two are meant to be together.

Here is what Mouravieff says in Volume 3
A man alone is incomplete. But just where he is weak, his polar being is strong. Together, they form an integral being: their union leads to the fusion of their Personalities and a faster crystallization of their complete subtle bodies, united into a common second Birth.
[..]
If it is correct to say that the predestined man and woman are absolutely polar beings, this polarity is not simple because, to a certain measure, both are physically, mentally, and spiritually hermaphroditic beings. That measure, that proportion, is at the same time sufficient and necessary. It is necessary to permit every being coming into this world to carry within himself the image of the polar being; this image is expressed, in each case, by means of the organ of the opposite sex which exists in every being in a state of non-development. It is, so to say, a part of the flesh and blood of his polar being that each one of us carries within himself.

Added: So all in all, two polar opposites would be collinear with the same Aim of becoming conscious. Theoretically this would be the same. However in terms of energy and strengths/weakeness, I would assume that they would be opposites. That is how they compliment each other so perfectly!
 

lilyalic

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Miss.K said:
I don't know if it is possible to find a partner who is not the polar opposite and still feel understood.
I want to think it is, but then again, someone who would be capable of understanding me, would probably be on the same path, and so we might be aware that we weren't polar opposites and then we might decide not to complicate things..

I'm not sure if that would be expecting someone to understand you - when we're not supposed to expect anything from anybody. Your potential partners' job isn't to understand you, I suppose if they're in the Work then understanding themselves and working on themselves would in turn lead to more understanding of you - and the whole of humanity. Like understanding that you both have fear and wounds, both have programs etc.

I used to be in the mind set of "he doesn't understand me so he doesn't love me" or longing for some understanding from another - when in reality I didn't understand myself and shouldn't have expected someone else to understand me - especially when they're working on that themselves.

Keyhole said:
From what I think I understand, for polar opposites: One has certain strengths, talents and abilities that the 'other' does not have and these could be described as the other's "weak points". Whereas that one possessed certain strengths, talents and abilities that are the others "weaknesses". This is in relation to the Work. Hence the couple acting together as one, Working together, and utilizing each others strengths can rapidly develop esoterically speaking. What one has, the other does not have (and vice versa). Laura speaks of the "androgynous being", how for one to develop spiritually their energies must be balanced and this applies here. Working in conjunction with one's polar opposite is an aid to balancing the masculine and feminine energies within oneself. And only when the two seekers have performed a great deal of Work on themselves can this "fusion" take place.

So in relation to the term "opposite", I don't think it applies to the A influences in one's life. For example I may perceive someone to be very different to me superficially speaking, when deep down, without false personality we may actually be very alike in BEING. The term "opposites attract" applies here also IMO. I think if one is in the Work, then the attraction to their polar opposite may come from the recognition of their polar opposite's strengths and the acknowledgement of ones own strengths/weaknesses and how this connection could benefit them both in the Work. Some kind of inner knowing that the two are meant to be together.

Here is what Mouravieff says in Volume 3
A man alone is incomplete. But just where he is weak, his polar being is strong. Together, they form an integral being: their union leads to the fusion of their Personalities and a faster crystallization of their complete subtle bodies, united into a common second Birth.
[..]
If it is correct to say that the predestined man and woman are absolutely polar beings, this polarity is not simple because, to a certain measure, both are physically, mentally, and spiritually hermaphroditic beings. That measure, that proportion, is at the same time sufficient and necessary. It is necessary to permit every being coming into this world to carry within himself the image of the polar being; this image is expressed, in each case, by means of the organ of the opposite sex which exists in every being in a state of non-development. It is, so to say, a part of the flesh and blood of his polar being that each one of us carries within himself.

Added: So all in all, two polar opposites would be collinear with the same Aim of becoming conscious. Theoretically this would be the same. However in terms of energy and strengths/weakeness, I would assume that they would be opposites. That is how they compliment each other so perfectly!

This was really well described and really hit me! It seems pretty right to have the other strengthen those parts that need strengthening in you. Especially if you're providing this for each other, so then the whole feeding concept becomes balance. It's strange how thin the line is between projecting onto the other these weaknesses in yourself, feeding from certain aspects - to turning that all into love, consideration, encouragement - basically aiding their work on themselves. Or maybe it's not so thin? maybe I'm thinking too black and white.
 

RedFox

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Lilyalic said:
This was really well described and really hit me! It seems pretty right to have the other strengthen those parts that need strengthening in you. Especially if you're providing this for each other, so then the whole feeding concept becomes balance. It's strange how thin the line is between projecting onto the other these weaknesses in yourself, feeding from certain aspects - to turning that all into love, consideration, encouragement - basically aiding their work on themselves. Or maybe it's not so thin? maybe I'm thinking too black and white.

Which makes me think of neworking and the forum. That this is basically what we are all aiming to do - help each other grow.
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
Lilyalic said:
Miss.K said:
I don't know if it is possible to find a partner who is not the polar opposite and still feel understood.
I want to think it is, but then again, someone who would be capable of understanding me, would probably be on the same path, and so we might be aware that we weren't polar opposites and then we might decide not to complicate things..

I'm not sure if that would be expecting someone to understand you - when we're not supposed to expect anything from anybody. Your potential partners' job isn't to understand you, I suppose if they're in the Work then understanding themselves and working on themselves would in turn lead to more understanding of you - and the whole of humanity. Like understanding that you both have fear and wounds, both have programs etc.

I used to be in the mind set of "he doesn't understand me so he doesn't love me" or longing for some understanding from another - when in reality I didn't understand myself and shouldn't have expected someone else to understand me - especially when they're working on that themselves.

Not sure if it is expecting. I know that my x boyfriend loved me to the best of his ability, but he didn't understand me very well I think, so I had to hide much of myself to keep the peace at home, and it felt lonely.

I found that I felt less lonely when alone, and I decided that I don't want to be in a relationship where I feel lonelier than when alone.

Is deciding that understanding each other is something that one needs to be happy in a relationship, and thus not entering new relationships unless there is a feeling of understanding each other, the same as expecting someone should have the job of understanding one?
 

Keyhole

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Lilyalic said:
This was really well described and really hit me! It seems pretty right to have the other strengthen those parts that need strengthening in you. Especially if you're providing this for each other, so then the whole feeding concept becomes balance. It's strange how thin the line is between projecting onto the other these weaknesses in yourself, feeding from certain aspects - to turning that all into love, consideration, encouragement - basically aiding their work on themselves. Or maybe it's not so thin? maybe I'm thinking too black and white.

Maybe it is like this, although I don't think it is useful to see the dynamic as: "The other strengthens those parts of me".

IMO this is the sort of mindset that can easily fall into codependency and essentially lead to feeding. A kind of reliance upon "the other" for those things which are currently laying dormant in ones own psyche and which one currently lacks conscious awareness of. Those underlying aspects of one's character are ones that need to be brought into awareness and cultivated.

I like to think that the way to approach the whole scenario is like : "The other can help me to develop the skills that will enable me to strengthen those parts of myself" :)

However rapid this 'cultivation' is supposed to be for the polar-opposite relationship, we still have the opportunity to grow and develop and to learn right here where we are in this network. It's really quite amazing, I feel overwhelmed at times. To know that there are just over 5000 people on this forum, compared to the 7 billion others. We are at such an important juncture in the evolution of humanity, and it is essentially in our hands to DO something different.

I try not to waste any time speculating about polar opposites. Me and Thorn have spoke about it on the odd occasion, but I see it as of relatively little importance in the big scheme of things. Perhaps I would think differently about it if I was not in a relationship. But I can imagine how placing too much significance on this theory can result in a substantial amount of energy loss.
 

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
RedFox said:
yanz said:
So, maybe this is the session that RedFox refered to?

Thanks yanz, that's exactly what I was looking for.
Hm, there's a section a little further in the book that addresses that exact point too. I guess I should quote the last section of that chapter, as it wraps up some of the points rather nicely.
Gnosis I P248 said:
Beings who live enclosed in their personality without thinking deeply-and they constitute the great majority of humanity-enthusiastically involve themselves in a life ruled by A influences, and do not really feel the need for such a union. For them, the polar being is on the same plane as everyone else. The personality does not perceive anything exceptional in him, and if by some chance an extraordinary impression is experienced, it is instead felt as something abnormal and embarrassing. Particularly difficult situations are born from such misapprehensions. In this context we can speak of couples formed under the influence of the Law of Accident, in which partners have opposite aspirations: on aspires towards A influences and the other searches for the Way. At the base of such unions we often find, beside a double error of judgment, the influence of karmic debt, remote or recent; for example an "arranged" marriage, or passion without love. The most intelligent attitude to take on such occasions is to unite the efforts of the couple to unravel the situation to their mutual benefit. Left to itself, the situation will only get worse. Very special care must be taken of children of such a union, as they suffer. Everything must be done to remedy this. As a general rule, we must not lose sight of the fact that, even if it is permitted to the human being to offer himself in sacrifice, he has no right to accept the sacrifice of others. We can say, however, that accelerated evolution of the hero of the film brings him nearer to his polar being. At the same time, it automatically removes from the film those personalities who have entered it fortuitously.
So I think what Miss K was saying about sucking it up and waiting for the kids to grow up was spot on. Reneging on your obligations to be with your "true love" even if sincere, creates the karmic debt which can destroy the relationship. Continuing...
Gnosis I P248 said:
After the formation of the magnetic center within him man starts to feel the desire, then the need, to be united with his polar being. This desire and need will increase in proportion to the growth of the latter. This is why, as we have just said, the concept of the Androgyne has purely mythical or theoretical value for ordinary man. We can now realize that for man, a living aspiration to be reintegrated into the Microcosmos-the most direct way to the reintegration of the Absolute-is the fruit of high moral culture. As we have mentioned several times, esoteric evolution is conditioned at the start by a bankruptcy, a moral breakdown. To make progress after this, man must know exactly where he stands, meaning that he must see himself. St Isaac the Syrian said that he who has been able to see himself as he is better than he who has been able to see the angels. What we call bankruptcy, the Tradition calls "death." It is death while still in a living body. One must first die, then be resurrected.
As I understand it here, Mouravieff is talking about the Second Threshold where you are experiencing the Dark Night of the Soul. So here he is implying you have to be man #4, transitioning into man # 5 before the polar opposite issue has a direct relevance to you in a conscious way. Before you have reached that point, the polar opposite concept is more like daydreaming.
Gnosis I P249 said:
By progressively taking his fate into his own hands, man at the same time takes responsibility for all the partners in his film. It has already been said that he must restore the original meaning of his film, then push the development of the latter in such a way that the "play" be properly played out to its intended denouement. The hero, while working on himself, must apply himself to create new circumstances around him, which will enhance the unfolding of the action toward its originally intended conclusion. His exterior efforts must above all be directed towards the creation of the circumstances, not towards seeking direct influence over people: this kind of influence often seems opportune, but in the great majority of cases it is an error. Instead of unraveling the situation, the influence creates karmic debts which complicate things all the more. One must be very prudent and circumspect. Yet new circumstances must be created in a way that effectively helps those interested to act in the direction desired. Once again, man should seek to serve, not to impose himself. Patience, perseverance and faith are qualities of great practical value in this work.

For man to recognize his polar being, he must be fully attentive on all planes accessible to his consciousness. In fact, as a result of the distortion of the film, the meeting always occurs in circumstances and in a manner least expected, generally at a moment and in a form which resemble nothing he could have ever imagined.

The rule enforced is precise: to recognize his polar being, man must know himself.This is obviously logical: to recognize his alter ego, man must first recognize his own ego. We are confronted once more again with the search for the Way.

It is true that the I of the body, like the I of the personality, aspires to find the perfect response from another being. Nevertheless, it is only by identifying himself more and more with his real I that man magnetizes the union with the polar being.

It is with a heart full of faith, sharpening within himself his highest faculties of intuition and attention, his sense of critical analysis taken to the highest point of alertness, that man will go in search of the being without whom he is not real. As it was for the troubadour long ago, it is in courtly love that he can hope to find and recognize "la Dame de ses Pensees."

The difficulty we find in discovering our polar being lies in the fact that we are deformed, and constantly distort our film by free movements. These are the first two points that need to be corrected: we must rectify our own distortion and renounce our impulsive movements. This explains the prescription not to act under the influence of only one center. It is the necessity to correct for our distortions, which, logically, imposes on us the need, both in reception and transmission, for the conscious effort to make our emotional and intellectual centers work together to face the problems which confront us.

The complexity of a human being can be compared in principle to that of an orchestra, and that of his life to a symphony where each instrument follows its part in a harmonious ensemble. In working on himself he must act as the orchestra leader acts during the rehearsals of a new musical performance.

All this is preparatory work. But when polar beings meet, by what immediately perceptible signs can humans who are still imperfect, still deformed by karmic debts, be certain in all objectivity that they are not making a mistake?

Here are some indispensable criteria that can have objective value in mutual recognition. From the first meeting, in the presence of the polar being, both the I of the personality and the I of the body vibrate in a manner which resembles nothing felt before. The reason for this is that these Is find themselves in the presence of their "first love" which continues through the centuries. Without clearly being conscious of it, the polar beings know each other; and this knowledge, as ancient as they are themselves, is expressed by the voice of their subconsciousness. This creates an atmosphere of absolute confidence and sincerity from the moment they meet.

There is a touchstone here: polar beings do not lie to each other. They do not need to lie, for inwardly they both are one single being, from the depths of which the real I issues his call and gives assent. After this, that absolute, spontaneous sincerity constitutes the basis of their relations and this in turn will give these two beings the otherwise inconceivable feeling of freedom in unity, which ends the impression of servitude and isolation under which we ordinarily live. Soon afterwards, vague reminiscences of past experiences will start to come to the surface in their waking consciousness.

The reader will now understand the deepest reason why lying to oneself is forbidden: he who lies to himself will also lie to his alter ego. That will be the end of the miracle. The wonderful side of the meeting will disappear behind a curtain of trivial lies, which will rapidly take the aspect of an impassable wall. Behind this wall, relations with the polar being will no longer be distinguished from those that a man can have with other women: wives, mistresses, and adventures. Once more, the experience will be spoiled.

This is how and why exterior man passes by his polar being without recognizing her. This is why practical work on the esoteric Way starts and necessarily continues with a struggle against lying to oneself. Success in this field is indispensable. To reach this aim, no price whatsoever is too high to pay.

If they are open to the truth, and if their meeting makes chords-silent until now-vibrate in harmony with them both, the way is then marked out, for polar beings, by their conscious efforts to recreate the Microcosmos which had formerly been dissociated and broken. They will traverse the staircase like an arrow and will suddenly find themselves in front of the Second Threshold.

The catechumen crosses the first threshold under the impetus of a negative feeling: the horror of life in the wilderness, and the ardent desire to escape from it. To reach the Second Threshold, the two polar beings who present themselves in front of it must be holders of a positive password, which will be required from them at that precise moment.

The way opens to those who know what they want, know what they aspire to, on the Way and outside the Way, in an exterior life which after this can never again be detached from esoteric work. Happy are those who can be useful in it. The door which leads to Life will open before them, and they will read on the pediment of the wall the sacramental inscription: "The laborer is worthy of hire."
I think Gurdjieff must have known about this concept, but now I think he probably chose not to mention it because it gives people a sort of false hope if you aren't far enough along to be able to apply all the principles outlined here. In order to be able to offer the objective love described in my previous post, you have to have already fused the magnetic center on proper foundations, at a minimum. All of this talk of polar opposites can lead you to daydream about the perfect romance, thinking you can DO, which results in lying to yourself which is exactly what you're supposed to be getting away from. In addition, in other parts of the book, Mouravieff also talks about a situation involving meeting your polar opposite before the First Threshold, and how it is a shortcut to the Second Threshold, and I think that's a dangerous idea. I don't see it so much as a shortcut, but a big test with a rather high chance of failure; in order to be "pure" enough to function in a polar relationship you have to get your act together relatively quickly before the "credit" of the love runs out and get your level of being close to the level of man # 5 or it will fail just like any other romance contracted under the aegis of the General Law. Getting into it while you're on the "Staircase" phase probably improves the odds quite a bit, but it's still kind of iffy. It can actually serve as a distraction from the Work, and I don't think Gurdjieff wanted to expose his students to that.

I now think, that from the perspective a "master," the whole theory of the polar opposites would be intended for people in the esoteric circle of the 4th way knowledge, people who were developed enough to actually DO, without getting caught up in self-deception. On the other hand, since the drive to find a partner is such a strong one, perhaps Mouravieff wanted to throw it out there so that some people who might read his books might be able to take advantage of the "big test" and perhaps make something positive out of it. However, as I said, I think it provides a bit of a false hope and stems more from the fact he was a documentarian instead of a "master," per se.

On a somewhat whimsical sidebar, I wonder if you really do fuse into one being with your polar opposite and become an androgyne. I kind of thought the Androgyne was a distortion of the concept of variability of physicality which would mean variability of gender as well in 4D, which was alluded to here.
session951104 said:
Q: (L) So, if the region disappears... (T) It's not disappearing. It's just shifting... (L) So if the region goes into fourth density, will the people living there also be in fourth density?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) Will they notice that anything is different? Will they, not us, they? Those who are within it?
A: Are you kidding?
Q: (L) I guess they will. (T) Well, I don't know, that's why I'm asking. (J) Their perception is going to change! (T) But, how can their perception change if they're not going into fourth density?
(L) No, they said they are going in to fourth density! But they're not "going" anywhere (J) There will be no traveling involved. (T) We're not "going" anywhere, we're shifting our frequencies up
to the next density, not moving from where we are.
A: Picture driving down a highway, suddenly you notice auras surrounding everything.... Being able to see around corners, going inside little cottages which become mansions, when viewed
from inside... Going inside a building in Albuquerque and going out the back door into Las Vegas, going to sleep as a female, and waking up male... Flying in a plane for half an hour and landing
at the same place 5 weeks later...
Q: (J) [reads previous passage and says:] Perception is "BEING," and changes all the time! (T) That's "variability of physicality!" (SV) Albuquerque... That's where the University of New
Mexico is! Can you imagine that whole campus...! (T) Can you imagine the poor casino operators when "chance" no longer plays a chance....? [Break]
I guess it's not something that we can really know. Just a curiosity.
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Neil said:
yanz said:
A: Picture driving down a highway, suddenly you notice auras surrounding everything.... Being able to see around corners, going inside little cottages which become mansions, when viewed
from inside... Going inside a building in Albuquerque and going out the back door into Las Vegas, going to sleep as a female, and waking up male... Flying in a plane for half an hour and landing
at the same place 5 weeks later...
This sounds like my dreams.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Wow, thanks Neil. I'm going to have to re-read Gnosis after those wonderful extracts. Unlike the 4th way books though, I found Gnosis got me into a state of daydreaming, I suppose because you can't help but start imagining this perfect union and how great it would be to just be in such a union, at least facing the world together rather than alone. The 4th way books are more I would say somber, as the struggle is solitary mainly, there is no union, it is individual struggle, obviously being assisted by a network but still a network is nice and all, but it doesn't fully quench that feeling of being alone. I suppose this goes back to what the author of bringers of the dawn was saying about that feeling of alone-ness and how it is just a state of mind.

Many feelings are a state of mind, but as we have learnt, the mind sometimes fails to distinguish between reality and its imaginings so just calling something a state of mind isn't the magic bullet that cures all. I suppose you are left with the 4th way concept of conscious struggle, Mourvieff's talk of perseverance, patience and faith. All this plastered on top of the river of time i.e. these things don't happen in an instance, they take time, and humans feel the effects of time. How many years must pass? How long must you struggle? When is the golden gate reached? How do you mark progress along the path? What landmarks are there etc...

It's all quite tough really.

And even though the whole concept of the Polar Being is quite dreamy and romantic, the whole idea of 2 people fused by cosmic time, by purpose that transcends mortal life, by attraction that transcends the human plane, when it comes down to it, we (people supposedly on 'the way') are no different from a normal man on the street. We after all look the same, age the same, get sick the same, die the same etc. You can't really know the difference between dreaming and not dreaming, you may be dreaming and think you are on a certain path, you may be on the path and think you are dreaming you are on that path, maybe you are a genius and know you are on the path with certainty. What I am trying to say is, an accidental relationship, with all its pitfalls and karmic debt and absurdity as M puts it, well this for most provides the fodder, the fuel, in which most of the learning takes place in this world. It can be quite hard to distinguish between such a relationship and a polar opposite one. At the end of the day, we are left to deal with what is infront of us, not some dreamy image shrouded in the distance and we can only hope that what is infront of us is not some big illusion, some mirage but at least something real, some landmark on the script, some landmark on the path.

Btw, I like this whole concept of 'serve' rather than 'impose'. It puts a whole new twist on the design of the world where the main pursuit is imposition. Nations impose themselves upon nations, people impose themselves upon people, those who succeed are usually the most adept at this. Upside down world.
 

mrelectric91

Padawan Learner
I guess the idea of polar opposites provides a good idea of the sensation of one's essence meeting another's for the potential of something real. But to adhere to the path towards reaching that end, one would have to be man number 4 towards 5, above unconscious imagination and uneccessary energy leaks. The idea of a polar opposite, I think hurts more than it helps, especially if you have little to no experience or positive experience with the opposite sex, at a lower level it still sounds like the 'wait and you will get your chance once day' your aunty says to keep your spirits up.

Gurdjieff said we must verify everything ourself.....
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
mrelectric91 said:
I guess the idea of polar opposites provides a good idea of the sensation of one's essence meeting another's for the potential of something real. But to adhere to the path towards reaching that end, one would have to be man number 4 towards 5, above unconscious imagination and uneccessary energy leaks. The idea of a polar opposite, I think hurts more than it helps, especially if you have little to no experience or positive experience with the opposite sex, at a lower level it still sounds like the 'wait and you will get your chance once day' your aunty says to keep your spirits up.

Gurdjieff said we must verify everything ourself.....

For me personally I don't see it as dangerous or something that hurts more than help, to study, discuss, or think about polar opposites, anymore than any other studies, discussions, or thoughts I can have of bettering myself, or reaching a higher level.
For me it is part of being curious and interested to know more about how everything works and what exist and what doesn't, to have an interest in the subject.

Understanding things help me stop energy leaks, not the other way around...

Of cause there is danger of wasting time daydreaming or having expectations instead of being a good obyvatel, but I don't think more so on the subject of polar opposites, than of the subject of becoming 4D STO. So I think it depends what one does with the knowledge of what one doesn't yet experience, that determines if it is helpful or not to know about.
 
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