FBI and Court TV psychic prepares for federal court

[amindformurder]

Following a Washington federal court's decision in November 2006 --- a decision where the court ordered a judgment against her brought by skeptic writer John Merrell --- Court TV psychic Noreen Renier now must prepare for a jury trial in early February 2007 to decide the damages to be awarded Merrell. This federal judgment follows the federal courts decision that Renier violated a Florida state settlement agreement between the parties from 1992, and comes after the court found in favor of Merrell. Merrell outlined a significant case and repeatedly the court weighed with Merrell. Merrell first informed Renier of violating the agreement in September 2005 after she published her book 'A Mind For Murder' in May 2005. The publisher informed a lower state court in February 2006 that it had withdrawn the book from publication, and that decision came as the court placed the sole responsibility as a defendant on Noreen Renier. The 1992 settlement states that the violator of the settlement pays for the total litigation costs of both parties, plus damages. The total litigation costs just for Merrell alone exceed $50,000 even before damages are set. It is estimated Renier's litigation costs are equal or exceed Merrell's beyond these figures. The damages beyond the litigation costs will be sizeable. There had been earlier signs of using a binding arbitrator to provide the final damage figure, but a court date in a U.S. federal court now stands beginning February 6, 2007. Renier was born 70 years ago (January 16, 1937) so this action comes in conjunction with several milestones, including press coverage at the first psychic-skeptic trial where a federal court has already placed a judgment on a psychic. For extensive background on this case, and coverage of Merrell's recent investigation into a series of claims made by Renier relating to locating a crashed aircraft, see www(dot)amindformurder.com While one cannot agree with everything stated, it is a remarkable summary that blows apart many of the previous views expressed about this 20 year old battle. A full reading of the case makes it clear that many in the paranomal community got much of the information wrong and may have backed the wrong player.

 

[anart]

Apologies, but I don't get your point - could you provide some background as to why you posted this? I'm not familiar with anyone in this story, so perhaps that is the problem. I'm also wondering why you chose the screen name you chose?

 

[Alana]

anart is actually expressing the same questions i had while reading your post amindformurder (?)

 

[ark]

Well, you can check the main message of http://www.amindformurder(dot)com/

This site explores a 2006 investigation which covers the leading FBI police psychic --- Noreen Renier ---- a psychic detective regularly seen on the Court TV series Psychic Detectives. Yet this overview reveals Noreen Renier provided untrue statements shared with millions of television viewers --- and thousands of readers of her book --- about passengers who died aboard a crashed aircraft.

Which is not a surprise. There are literally thousands of "psychics" all around the world that are exploiting naive people.

This does not contradict the fact that there are psychic phenomena that are not explainable by fraud. See for instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_Engineering_Anomalies_Research_Lab

Our new member's post is very badly designed, very bad communication skills. Lack of clarity and simplicity in the message. Here, on this forum, we care for high signal/noise ratio and clear and succintt communication, based on "external considering".

 

[Laura]

I had a look at the site and found this:

In late 2006 Merrell noted that “there are dozens of psychics who claim to be able summon the dead and have psychic powers of a God. For thousands of years soothsayers like them have failed to foresee or prevent both natural and sudden disasters. In recent years no psychic came forward to stop 9-11, nor did any warn of the events of Hurricane Katrina. No psychic has prevented the accidental deaths of leading public figures in recent weeks. And of greater concern is that no psychic has ever led a law enforcement officer by the hand toward a lost child before the child died of cold and starvation. Never has that been done.�

What Merrill is writing is true in one way, but he is using faulty logic.

For example, I dreamed about the Challenger disaster. What good did it do me or anyone? Zero, zip, zilch.

First of all, the images were very confusing to me because in no way did I relate them to the shuttle lift-off. Only AS it was happening did I realize what those images meant.

Second: Even if I had been able to accurately interpret my dream, what then? If I had been so stupid as to call NASA and say "something is going to happen to the shuttle" and they took me the least bit seriously, I would probably have had authorities knocking on my door and accusing me of sabotage or something. More likely would be to brush it away as a crank.

So, Merrill is right that seldom, if ever, do predictions prevent anything. But that is mainly because of people like both Renier AND Merrill. Sheesh, we've been talking about an attempted fascist takeover of the planet via the U.S. government since 1995 and even now, when it is happening right in everyone's face, few people can swallow it for being what it is!

But Merrill is wrong that this proves that there is no such thing as psychism of various sorts. He hasn't really done his homework on the subject.

So, Merrill, if that is you behind the "amindformurder" handle, I can certainly understand your frustration and agree with you that frauds like this Renier person need to be exposed. But I also point out to you that it is frauds like her that give the real thing a bad name and have helped to deprive humanity of a legitimate study that would benefit everyone.

For example: imagine if truly open-minded studies were done today as they were back in the 19th century and some basic theory was established with certain evidence? It would put the mainstream religions out of business, very likely. And then, of course, without religions to drive it, we might have a lot less violence on this planet.

What a concept.

 

[amindformurder]

A Mind for Murder is taken from the title of Renier's book which tripped the breach, causing the present judgment against her. Regarding the "very badly designed, very bad communication skills" and the "lack of clarity and simplicity" --- well, one cannot write for those who cannot comprehend. A visitor who doesn't take the time to learn and complete the web site because their mind is closed will never become aware. There is no other website were so much evidence has been gathered to showcase how believers were fooled. And fooled again. And then defended themselves and their beliefs and they passed on their foolish beliefs. Naive children at play comes to mind. So learn or you may simply continue to criticize before understanding as you dig deeper into the holes of ignorance. About 20% of those who have replied directly to the web site "don't get it" --- approximately 80% do. It's clear that a very high percentage of those who understand read the complete site.

 

[Beau]

You should heed your own advice. Further, this is not a forum that reacts kindly to spamming, which is in effect what you are doing. Did we ask for this intrusion?

 

[anart]

A Mind for Murder is taken from the title of Renier's book which tripped the breach, causing the present judgment against her.

Uhm, yes, that much was obvious - the question is why are you using it as your screen name?

Regarding the "very badly designed, very bad communication skills" and the "lack of clarity and simplicity" --- well, one cannot write for those who cannot comprehend.

What, exactly does this mean? Are you explaining that if readers do not comprehend the post you wrote here that it is their fault - not your own for being vague and self-referencing? Why does Lobaczewski's work spring to mind here?

A visitor who doesn't take the time to learn and complete the web site because their mind is closed will never become aware.

Yes, we keep telling that to people who come to the forum with an agenda like you have done - and to people who do not practice external consideration - oh - but, wait - you only meant that as applied to YOUR website - right - of course....

There is no other website were so much evidence has been gathered to showcase how believers were fooled. And fooled again. And then defended themselves and their beliefs and they passed on their foolish beliefs. Naive children at play comes to mind. So learn or you may simply continue to criticize before understanding as you dig deeper into the holes of ignorance. About 20% of those who have replied directly to the web site "don't get it" --- approximately 80% do. It's clear that a very high percentage of those who understand read the complete site.

That's nice - I'm happy for you that you are so satisfied with your 'no other website out there' - however, here we are interested in objective data - not showcasing - and especially not beliefs. Do you understand that difference? From what you've presented here thus far, in both attitude and information, I really see no draw to your site at all, but perhaps that's just me - a naive child at play.

You might want to peruse the forum rules before posting again, that is if you are actually interested in a two way exchange of information and not just a stage on which to present your showcasing. Or, more likely, this forum is not for you and it is time you moved along to greener pastures.

 

[amindformurder]

You ask for objective facts, yet your innuendo is that I present none. Well now. The federal judgment rendered by a Washington court didn't make its decision based on bias or beliefs. And even the web site includes court testimony, eyewitness testimony, and references by law enforcement officials. Clearly the facts are there and they reveal a very clear, very substantial doctrine of fantasy --- one held together by numerous personnel in the paranormal community. Those who are bitter over the course revealed by this skeptical inquiry may wish to hinder having others examine the facts for themselves. And indicating you would prefer to silence such critics says quite a bit about your openess in critically examining the paranormal objectively. If the sword is penetrating deep into the folds of long held psychic media collegues, so be it. It's time this forum allowed some fresh facts to be seen. It was in this forum --- with wide internet distribution ---- that my name originally came up by others with various out-of-context quotes many months ago. Now that I respond with the facts it seems at least a moderator would prefer silence. If so, you show your true colors.

 

[kenlee]

I don't get your point here. Is posting this information your proof that PSI phenomenon does not exist and all those who speak of the psychic world are deluded? I don't know if this woman is psychic or not. You are dealing with a world that is more uncertain then the physical world and there is an incalculable factor there but that doesn't mean you still can't get your facts relating to this world which is more uncertain and less predictable then the material world to which we are all familiar.

Gurdjieff said that if one wants to lose their "faith" all they have to do is make friends with the priest. Are you trying to disprove the possibility that the psychic world exists because of charlatans who wish to make a profit from it?

 

[amindformurder]

No, posting the information at www.amindformurder.com is not offered as a proof that PSI phenomenon does not exist.

It does however provide an opportunity to examine dozens of leading PSI proponents (not the psychics themselves) who over the last 20 years have cited Noreen Renier as "the best", "the most screened and examined", "valid proof of psychic foresight" and "the most credible psychic internationally."

As the only psychic who lectured at the FBI, and the only psychic (to my knowledge) regularly passed on to "dozens" of police agencies internationally by a retired FBI officer, Renier clearly has been among the top three of those still living in her level of international media coverage. Certainly her "scientific testing" and cited involvement on "hundreds" of international cases has placed her credibility among PSI proponents repeatedly at a level of "proof" of PSI existence. Together with the testimonials from many of the acclaimed PSI testing and/or research facilities across the U.S., references to her work and PSI capabilities shows up in "text book" articles, including one used at the FBI Training Academy.

Isn't it time that PSI proponents who cite psychic claims offer some sense of how they evaluate these PSI individuals and events?

Renier's own website notes her involvement with such distinctive agencies as: The University of Delaware; the Florida Division of International Association for Identification in Orlando, Florida; Santa Fe Community College; The 2nd International Seminar on Advancing The Scientific Investigation of Crimes Durham in England (Sponsored by THE BRITISH COUNCIL); the Rhine Research Center; the Sarasota Police Department in Sarasota, Florida; the University of Florida in Gainesville; the Psychical Research Foundation in Durham, North Carolina; the University of Virginia Parapsychology Department in Charlottesville, Virginia; the
University of Virginia Department of Behavioral Medicine and Psychiatry; the University of Central Florida
in Orlando; the FBI Training Academy; Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida; Piedmont Community College
in Charlottesville, Virginia; the University of Virginia in Charlottesville; the St. Louis County & Municipal Police Academy in Wellston, Missouri; the Southwest Florida Criminal Justice Academy at Fort Myers, Florida; the
Law Enforcement & Corrections Third International Conference held in Miami; the Central Florida Criminal Justice Institute at Orlando; the Institute of Police Technology & Management in Jacksonville, Florida; the
The Virginia Bureau of Forensic Science in Richmond; the Peninsula/Tidewater Regional Academy of Criminal Justice Hampton, Virginia; and see claims to have worked with hundreds of other personnel.

Now given that many among these PSI examiners and/or proponents cite psychic cases in their testimony of PSI capabilities --- many as strong advocates --- what can be learned? If dozens of the leading PSI proponent agencies are flawed in their degree of examination accuracy, what might we surmize about those who do not use the stringent "scientific testing" and lab and/or academic settings of these agencies?

Where is the proof for those who claim investigative "objective accuracy" but may in fact be --- using your term --- deluded? Whether or not Noreen Renier is psychic I do not know. I do know that many of the objective PSI proponents --- including most of the leading PSI proponents and psychics across the U.S. and Europe --- seem to have found themselves in the same pudding that is full of exaggerations, falsehoods, and wild fantasy claims. Why is that? Why can't PSI believers showcase a single credible figure that when scrutinized comes up crystal clean?

Excuses that one is dealing with a world that is more uncertain then the physical world and lacks incalculable factors avoids acknowleging rubbish where and when it is found. I offer a sequence of events that dozens of the top PSI proponents swallowed as gospel and regurgitated to millions as proof. It is time that many in the PSI community acknowledged the bitter taste of their failures to examine deep and concisely the claims they offer as proof of PSI. Repeatedly the very cases or persons they offer as proof tumble --- indeed they explode --- upon examination.

Or they turn to the same vague areas of the UFO=ETI proponents who have spotted Elvis steering his Cadillac towards the stars. Give me a name. Give me a claim. Give me something substantial. For all I have found is rotten pudding time and time again.

 

[arkmod]

Isn't it time that PSI proponents who cite psychic claims offer some sense of how they evaluate these PSI individuals and events?

Evidently you did not research the subject. Please, research the subject of research on PSI phenomena first, including all scientific research done, write later. Can you do it for us?

 

[amindformurder]

I am not a PSI proponent. The burden of proof is yours.

 

[ark]

I am not a PSI proponent. The burden of proof is yours.

The problem is that you are writing about the subject that you did not study. Psychic phenomena is a wide subject. You can't have a reasonable understanding of this subject without studying it in extenso.

Remember: Knowledge protects. Ignorance engangers.

Writing about subjects that one is ignorant about puts one in danger.
The least danger I can think of is that one risks to be called an ignorant. But there are other dangers, more serious as well.

 

[Laura]

I am not a PSI proponent. The burden of proof is yours.

Not on this forum! This forum is attached to a website with literally thousands of pages of material based on PSI. That there is PSI, is our working hypothesis and it sure works a lot better than the "no PSI" hypothesis. What's more, our PSI derived material is proving to be downright useful as you can discover by reading my recent piece: Fire and Ice: The Day After Tomorrow.

Regarding the stalking of Renier as a fraud (which I agree she probably is!) As atriedes wrote HERE

It all seems a bit pointless. Little boys throw stones at frogs in sport, but the frogs, they die in earnest.

If people want to believe her then let them, if she helps, then good, if she hurts, eventually they will catch on. Basically all I saw is that she makes some resume fudges, and weird claims. I didn't see any claims of criminal negligence. Just because someone thinks they heal, or can talk to the dead, doesn't make them the anti-christ. With all of the evil liars out there killing hundreds of thousands every year through starvation, bombings, and executions just to line their pockets it occurs to me that some elderly medium making bold claims and touring the talk show circuit is not even a blip on the evil radar.

Personally, I would be more inclined to whup this Merrell character, talk about a waste of life, he really tries hard to pull himself out of mediocrity by shoving someone else back into it. People like him are the crabs of our society, everytime someone tries to get out of the crate, they pull you right back and try to get on top of you. I don't believe this Renier character, and more than likely, she is just pretty good at her stage act, who cares.

I agree. With all the REAL evil going on here on the Big Blue Marble, for Merrill and Posner to spend that kind of energy going after a gal who fudges is truly bizarre and a waste of perfectly good lives (not to mention taking up space on said planet, breathing the air, and producing waste).

Don't these guys have something to do that would actually HELP humanity?

How about sueing George W. Bush for claiming that God told him to strike Iraq??? Now there's a case where somebody's totally weird beliefs (or pretense to same) actually have cause major harm to the planet and millions of people on it. A veritable worthy cause!