Energy and Structure

M

monotonic

The Living Force
Some of you may recall things I've said about oscillation, energy and patterns. I have journal pages full of ideas about this stuff as well as long-winded textfiles and I wanted to share everything, but it might just be more expedient to put the main idea here and feed the discussion that follows, if it develops along lines I can add to.

The basic idea is that energy is stored in structure. A structure that's near the breaking point releases its energy. This often takes the form of oscillation. In other cases it may be sporadic or chaotic releases. This principle can be applied extremely broadly. I had the idea while studying feedback loop instability in audio circuits.

An avalanche would be an example. The structure of the cliff has settled into a structure that carries the weight of the cliff. But once that structure is broken, the release of energy is exponential.

An electric arc or discharge could be considered an avalanche of electrons. Sustained-arc transmitters used a constant arc kept at the breaking point to create oscillations used to transmit early radio waves. A structure at the verge of disintegration exhibits instability; instability makes resonators into oscillators. It can turn anything really into an antenna, to oscillate (mechanically or electrically) at its self-resonant frequency.

This idea can be applied to people as well. A mind that's at the breaking point may become "unstable". I also wonder if the electric current or voltage potential from the ground up causes a similar gradient in the brain, which acts to polarize thought and possibly cause mental instability if the mind is maladaptive, IE it cannot sink the current.

The most interesting development I had was the idea that based on this you may posit that where there are growing oscillations or instability or possibly chaos, there is a decaying structure. This would mean any positive feedback loop, anything releasing more energy than it receives, does so because a structure which served to "shore up" the energy is eroding. I thought this was an interesting idea to try and apply anywhere you observe a large release of energy.
 
I think the above are some interesting ideas. Maybe elementary matter is like the structure of the cliff which has settled into a structure of sorts and when the structure is broken the release of energy is quite large, like in the atom bomb. So if we could figure out how that energy is trapped to form matter, which I think is probably an oscillation, then we might be able to build replicators like the ones in STAR TREK... which would be pretty handy I think...

Another thing which I think is interesting is that if matter is an oscillation then it doesn't seem to lose energy with time, so the oscillation itself must be the lowest energy state, rather than the complete rest state, where the oscillation ceases to oscillate. This might be due to the uncertainty principle, where energy is inversely proportional to time, so the oscillation is in a balanced state where both the energy and time cannot go any lower, but are still positive, i.e. they still exist.

I also just recently started studying chaos theory as well, so it seems to me (although I'm not an expert) that if the oscillation has non-linear components or if it has at least 3 interacting components (which could be the 3 dimensions... I think...) then it's quite possible that the oscillation could become chaotic. So, if you have a nice neat oscillation set up, maybe you could destabilize it with another external oscillation.
 
What you are basically saying about oscillating matter is that energy is stored in the "ringing". If the particle could be considered to be a resonant mode of free space, then it would make sense that as electrons gained energy they would make "jumps" in level as a new modal resonance was established to store the increased energy. Of course this makes many assumptions on the nature of atomic space and time.

One thing that intrigued me was in ISOTM where the action of the moon on life on the earth is compared to that of the weight in a clock. A clock is an oscillator. It resists the action of the weight or spring until the force overcomes the threshold of operation. This analogy brings together psychology, astrology and physics. If life on earth really does operate like a clock, that means that it is by rule operating as an unstable mechanism. This essentially means that organic life is a transducer which is made unstable, that converts its input energy into the energy required by "the moon".

Oscillation itself could be considered a pattern, so perhaps the oscillation of organic life is supplying a pattern for the moon which will eventually become an oscillator itself under the influence of a new cosmic tension.

I guess this is pretty speculative though and firmly clinging to the ideas in ISOTM.
 
For more on ocillations you might want to read "Gurdjieff: Cosmic Secrets" by Russel Smith. VERY insightful ideas disinterred from Beelzebub's Tales.

Kris
 
Gurdjieff is a good source and thinking about energy as a clock of sorts sounds interesting in the sense that entropy can be related to energy conservation and increasing entropy can be used in a clock-like way. Entropy also relates to information which is an astrology/enneagram thing that can also relate to psychology.
 
RflctnOfU said:
For more on ocillations you might want to read "Gurdjieff: Cosmic Secrets" by Russel Smith. VERY insightful ideas disinterred from Beelzebub's Tales.

Kris
Click to expand...

I find this thread interesting, but didn't have anything to add, so I'm just looking up that reference. Here's a short excerpt posted on January 30, 2012:

_http://www.voyagerpress.org/gurdjieff-cosmic-secrets-excerpt/

My, but you seem to have some good references, Kris. Thanks for that!
 
I'm guessing that plasma formations are modal oscillations of free space. The plasma itself, an arc, establishes this oscillation. Imagine a very large expanse of free air, charged uniformly to the threshold of discharge. As the electrical structure begins to erode chaotically, the expanse of air becomes a modal oscillator shaped by its reactive properties. In 3D space many different modal oscillations are possible. Once the air conducts a current, it is physically affected by magnetic forces and the electrical oscillation may create magnetic waves which cause the magnetized air to vibrate and create sound.

In these conditions the natural dampening effect of air would be canceled out, so quiet noises might be heard over long distances. If an oscillation has not yet been established, then sounds with wavelengths smaller than the "charge cavity" will in fact gain amplitude over time, so quiet sounds may be amplified. After sustained oscillation is established however, this effect will be gone or very well muted.

2D planes have different modal characteristics than 3D spaces, and I suspect that oscillations start more easily along flat surfaces due to dipole phase and surface wave stuff, but I'm not really sure and the opposite may be true. In any case the implication here is that electrogeophonics may be strongly influenced by the contour of the ground. For instance a large city with skyscrapers will have a significant surface area. How will the modal oscillation take place differently in such a place rather than say a flat plain?

That sounds like a very interesting book, though I can't say if I'll ever be able to get a copy.
 
monotonic said:
That sounds like a very interesting book, though I can't say if I'll ever be able to get a copy.
Click to expand...

Not to worry. I got one and am willing to post whatever excerpts seem relevant, useful or interesting.

It seems oscillations only become relevant in some 'totality' where you have an octave that consists of at least three inner octaves. In an inner octave, certain points, like a "Do" (AKA an "affirming force") of a (Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do) on the middle octave is capable of ascending or descending its scale and one of Gurdjieff's "strivings" is about doing just that. However, when there is a denying force at both ends of this scale and they are symmetrically distanced from the point that strives to ascend or descend, then the ascending/descending action continues indefinitely and this movement forms an oscillation.

If the above doesn't make sense to you (or some other interested reader), then I would ask if you are familiar with music and musical metaphors? Do you know what a scale is...specifically the diatonic scale and the fractional or decimal ratios that define the relationship of the notes on the scale? That's a prerequisite for understanding everything else in that book.
 
Buddy said:
monotonic said:
That sounds like a very interesting book, though I can't say if I'll ever be able to get a copy.
Click to expand...

Not to worry. I got one and am willing to post whatever excerpts seem relevant, useful or interesting.

It seems oscillations only become relevant in some 'totality' where you have an octave that consists of at least three inner octaves. In an inner octave, certain points, like a "Do" (AKA an "affirming force") of a (Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do) on the middle octave is capable of ascending or descending its scale and one of Gurdjieff's "strivings" is about doing just that. However, when there is a denying force at both ends of this scale and they are symmetrically distanced from the point that strives to ascend or descend, then the ascending/descending action continues indefinitely and this movement forms an oscillation.

If the above doesn't make sense to you (or some other interested reader), then I would ask if you are familiar with music and musical metaphors? Do you know what a scale is...specifically the diatonic scale and the fractional or decimal ratios that define the relationship of the notes on the scale? That's a prerequisite for understanding everything else in that book.
Click to expand...

I would like to add that to gain the start of an understanding of what is presented in the book, one needs only basic arithmetic. Music theory might help, but it also may be an impediment.

Kris
 
That doesn't make any sense at all, but sounds promising. I'll gladly wait for the excerpts.

I don't know anything about music theory or metaphors. I'm almost 1/3rd way through ISOTM.
 
I think the idea that there is a link between oscillations and psychology is interesting. Recently I've been playing around with the idea that thoughts are objects or transmissions with a reality of their own, and our minds are receivers. So, being STS creatures, what we do is collect thoughts, concepts, memories and keep them with us, whereas what we should be doing is increasing the "bandwidth" of our minds so that we are capable of experiencing/grasping thoughts which would normally be beyond us. I think this would be like gathering awareness.

This lead me to the idea that if matter is an oscillation then thoughts would be oscillations to, as well as our minds and bodies. This made me think that the true "I" which Gurdjieff talks about might be our main oscillation or oscillations, or the oscillation that forms from our many oscillations, while all the little "I's" might be various other oscillations, like the predator's mind for example.

For me, this started to feel like Castaneda's model of energy filaments and the assemblage point, which is probably where I came up with the idea. However, I think it would be interesting to try and model it mathematically and then try and test it experimentally. :)

One thing that intrigued me was in ISOTM where the action of the moon on life on the earth is compared to that of the weight in a clock. A clock is an oscillator. It resists the action of the weight or spring until the force overcomes the threshold of operation. This analogy brings together psychology, astrology and physics. If life on earth really does operate like a clock, that means that it is by rule operating as an unstable mechanism. This essentially means that organic life is a transducer which is made unstable, that converts its input energy into the energy required by "the moon".

Oscillation itself could be considered a pattern, so perhaps the oscillation of organic life is supplying a pattern for the moon which will eventually become an oscillator itself under the influence of a new cosmic tension.
Click to expand...

Indeed, if the moon is a driving force for oscillations on the Earth, then the driving force of the moon at certain values might create chaotic dynamics in certain oscillations. So if the model I proposed above is correct, then the moon might be able to create chaotic motion in the oscillations of the mind and body.

I don't know how that might lead to the feeding dynamic though, although if the oscillations of the mind and body resonate with the oscillations of the feeding life/thought form, then maybe energy could drain that way...
 
Well, these substances (structures) that cause oscillation when near the breaking point, exhibit negative resistance. This is why they can cause oscillation. They cause oscillation if the negative resistance is larger than the positive resistance they encounter. Even if the negative resistance isn't stronger, it still cancels some positive resistance. Removing resistance is like pulling a harp out of the mud. It's resonant (reactive) characteristics are no longer damped. In a very simple electrical sense, we are all resonators defined solely by our body profile, but not very effective ones because the substances we're made of are very resistive.

If we apply this analogy to brains however, we can speculate that mental negative resistance (which is really not separable in concept from a positive feedback loop) might make our thoughts "resonant" in which case we will be extremely sensitive to signals at the resonant frequency, or that are aligned with those thoughts. However, if the total resistance becomes negative, IE too much negative resistance, then the system becomes unstable and loses all its sensitivity when the maximum vibration is reached. The closer total resistance is to zero, the more sensitivity (and more stability). But if resistance goes negative for a moment it must be counterbalanced by a moment of positive resistance before oscillation breaks or "hits the ceiling". While preventing complete decay or oscillation is a good thing, every deviation from total zero resistance reduces sensitivity, so any time an adjustment must take place sensitivity is worse.

That instinctually (through sensation) reminds me of the uncertainty principle, but after thinking about it I can't find a direct connection between them.

In any case, resonance is useful when sensitivity is already limited, but when you set up a resonance you also define your limits. The nature of resonance relies on passive elements, which by nature do no work, although they can move energy around and transduce it. It is like a person that always procrastinates; he is always too late after you have asked him to do something, so nothing was changed and you are back where you started. Or a person who is always too eager and overconfident, who rushes into any task, again changing nothing. If you put these two together they will go around and around, never ceasing, and that is resonance. Alternatively you could choose one person who would get the job done the way you needed it, and that would be resistance. Be careful what you ask for, because what resistance does is of a lasting nature, and not self-erasing like reactivity is.
 
Here's my first contribution using material from the book. Like the author, I'm starting with references to "music" in hopes of establishing references either to the known, the familiar, the easier to understand, or the something more concrete with which to connect everything. If desired, a person can google for piano keyboard images for a concrete visualization to go with this stuff.

Music starts with 1 vibration per second. If you double 1 you get 2 vibrations per second. If you double 2 you get 4; double 4 you get 8; double 8 you get 16 vibrations per second.

If you keep doubling, then when you get to 256 vibrations per second, you're at "Middle C" on a piano keyboard. If you double 256, you get 512 vibrations per second. That puts you at "High C" on a piano keyboard.

If you were to look at a picture of a labeled keyboard layout, you'd see a span of 8 white keys between and including Middle C and High C. This span covers a total of 256 vibrations and those white keys represent all the points that are relevant to this octave; that is, the important points between that designation of "Middle C" and "High C" that is relevant to a "diatonic" scale. That set of 256 vibrations, or keys, between and including Middle C and High C is called an octave.

The actual letter designations for the notes of the C scale (the span of white keys) are: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and this pattern of 7 letters (C, D, E, F, G, A, B) simply repeats all the way up and down the keyboard.

If you were to play just the white keys in succession starting with Middle C and ending with High C, then you'll recognize the familiar sound and rhythm of DO RE MI...

Now, to convert this to something more relevant to a discussion of your topic, we need to get rid of the letter designations, so just replace the letter C of the phrase "Middle C" with "DO" that begins the sequence "DO, RE, MI, FA, SO, LA, TI, DO". Do the same thing with the rest of the keys/notes between the two C's and you've got a generic way to refer to any octave.

This is useful because C is only one scale that's playable on a piano. There are other scales, for example, the scale of D, the scale of E, etc., and the mathematical formula for determining the notes of any of these scales is universal in that it's the same "diatonic" formula. In mathematical terms it's called the "diatonic ratio". All specific points in any octave are ratios related to the beginning note (Middle C in our example above). Starting with Middle C or any other note that we want to play an octave of, we just apply the formula to calculate and find the other notes of that octave or scale in order to position and play them properly.

Note: I wrote the above because I think it will help to make sense of whatever may come later. I figure the math has to be related to what it's talking about in order to make sense and use of it. If you need any elaboration of the above, I'll be happy to explain more. There's also supplementary info here if anyone needs it:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale

I hope I haven't made any mistakes so far and that if I have, someone might chime in with a helpful correction.

So, here's an excerpt from the book. By the end of this post I hope it's all coherent at least, even if we still have a little work to do to fully connect this to your audio knowledge and specific interests. I also hope this info will help you to make some sense of the cosmology in ISOTM and help me, and maybe others, improve our understanding of some of the material.

To calculate the major scale from Middle C to High C, we simply apply the diatonic ratios to the ascending vibration of Middle C (256); or apply half (1/2) of the diatonic ratios to the descending vibration of High C (512).

OCTAVE FROM MIDDLE C TO HIGH c

DO = 256 x 2/1 = 512 High C

TI = 256 x 15/8 = 480 B

LA = 256 x 5/3 = 426.666 A

SO = 256 x 3/2 = 384 G

FA = 256 x 4/3 = 341.333 F

MI = 256 x 5/4 = 320 E

RE = 256 x 9/8 = 288 D

DO = 256 x 1/1 = 256 Mid C


If we look at the octave in terms of the total increase or decrease in vibrations, then the octave from Middle C to High C has an increase of 256 vibrations; the octave from High C to Middle C has a decrease of 256 vibrations.
The increase itself can be viewed as an octave, as a totality that increases from "nothing at all"; in this case, starting at 0 and increasing to 256. The decrease can also be viewed as an octave, but this time, as a totality decreasing from "all to nothing"; 256 decreasing to 0.


THE TOTALITY OF 256 VIBRATIONS

DO 256 = ALL

TI 224 = 7/8 of the totality

LA 170.666 = 2/3 of the totality

SO 128 = 1/2 of the totality

FA 85.333 = 1/3 of the totality

MI 64 = 1/4 of the totality

RE 32 = 1/8 of the totality

DO 0 = NOTHING


ANY WHOLE PHENOMENON CAN BE CALCULATED AS AN OCTAVE, AS A "SOMETHING" THAT RUNS FROM ITS NOTHINGNESS, OR VICE VERSA, DIVIDING THE TOTALITY "DIATONICALLY" BY THE RATIOS: 1/8, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, AND 7/8.
Click to expand...

Aside: At this point, I'm thinking that "whole phenomenon" might refer to anything we might think of as a "something" like the author says. Like an atom or a mountain or some specific "thing" that might release energy as it decays as it matches your description of the process.

Turning back to the book, the author goes on to show how, when you put several octaves together, you can begin to see a pattern developing. To me, you can see what he means just by asking: Why isn't an octave divided evenly? IOW, why aren't those 6 points between two DO's spaced evenly?

Looking at several octaves together or when noticing the actual spacing of the six inner points of an octave, you might notice two particular intervals standing out. The interval between MI and FA and the one between TI and DO are smaller than the other intervals and after each of these two intervals, there is an interval twice as large.

This retardation in the rate of increase of vibrations at these two points is significant and in Gurdjieff's cosmology, the gist of this part of his teachings is that, at these two points, things either cease or deviate. Which I presume at the moment, to also be related to some "breaking point" whereby energy might be released as you describe.

In fact, the author interprets G as saying that by applying "conscious shocks" at the right time Man can acquire the ability to ultimately traverse these two intervals... on the way to "Allness", or so I'm supposing.

So, this is all like groundwork for more useful thoughts related to your questions. I thought it might be necessary to understand some of this first because I figure if this or these are really "cosmic secrets", then we will eventually see how to apply them to understanding anything we might want to know...even up to Gurdjieff's ultimate questions related to the sense and significance and purpose of life.

If anything is unclear so far, just ask about it and I will make sure to explain further until it's all clear.

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I'm sorry to have to say this because I believe I know how much time and effort you put into your writing, but that last post is so far over my head I don't know what it's saying, so at present, I'm not sure of any info in the book that might be related to it.
 
Imagine a weight suspended on a spring. That is a resonator. If you set it in motion, it eventually settles down due to its own internal resistance (friction). In a clock, the weight is the flywheel, which spins back and forth against a spring. However in a clock the motion doesn't settle normally, because the clock mechanism creates a negative resistance (anti-friction) which, added to the positive resistance (friction) of the resonator, cancels (adds) to a total resistance of zero. As long as this state is held, the resonator will be in constant, stable motion.

When the clock is starting, the resonator is given a negative total resistance, to build up the movement of the resonator. When the max vibration is reached, a second threshold is crossed. Positive resistance is then added, so that the total resistance on average cancels to exactly zero, so that the movement of the resonator is constant and stable, not growing or decaying.
 
Another way to look at it is that resistance dissipates energy. Whatever the antonym of dissipate is, that is what negative resistance does. Accumulate is the closest I could get.

Positive and negative resistance are not two separate forms of resistance. Negative resistance is just what you get when resistance goes lower than zero.
 
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