Electric Universe Theory

psychegram said:
[
Given the electrical activity associated with comets, cometary activity alone should be sufficient to explain many of the terrain features of Earth, Mars, etc. that the Thunderbolts guys use to imply that Earth used to orbit Saturn when it was a brown dwarf star. Laura's historical detective work in Comets and the Horns of Moses, showing how the names currently ascribed to planets were once likely associated with super-comets a la Clube & Napier, seems much more plausible. It's really too bad the Thunderbolts crowd insist on the Earth-orbiting-Saturn stuff, as it immediately associates a fairly plausible thesis (electric comets) with a proposition that is clearly nutty. It makes me wonder if Thunderbolts is COINTELPRO.

I actually didn't understand it that the Earth was orbiting Saturn but that ancient skies were arranged differently so that Mars,Venus then Saturn were aligned in front of Earth as a regular heavenly feature. At some point due to electrical influence of other stellar body/bodies, I understood that Venus turned into a flaring comet and consequently all hell broke lose on Earth and the neighbourhood.

I have yet to receive Laura's book, which I can hardly wait to read, but I certainly will be keeping in mind David Talbott's mythology theories and research.I find them interesting and thought provoking as well as physicist Wallace Thornhill's work.It helps to remember the baby and bathwater saying, OSIT.
 
psychegram said:
It makes me wonder if Thunderbolts is COINTELPRO.

Yeah, we should be on the watchout for any odd signs. If they are onto something, they will be the target of all kinds of attacks.

I've subscribed to their newsletter to stay informed.
 
stellar said:
psychegram said:
[
Given the electrical activity associated with comets, cometary activity alone should be sufficient to explain many of the terrain features of Earth, Mars, etc. that the Thunderbolts guys use to imply that Earth used to orbit Saturn when it was a brown dwarf star. Laura's historical detective work in Comets and the Horns of Moses, showing how the names currently ascribed to planets were once likely associated with super-comets a la Clube & Napier, seems much more plausible. It's really too bad the Thunderbolts crowd insist on the Earth-orbiting-Saturn stuff, as it immediately associates a fairly plausible thesis (electric comets) with a proposition that is clearly nutty. It makes me wonder if Thunderbolts is COINTELPRO.

I actually didn't understand it that the Earth was orbiting Saturn but that ancient skies were arranged differently so that Mars,Venus then Saturn were aligned in front of Earth as a regular heavenly feature. At some point due to electrical influence of other stellar body/bodies, I understood that Venus turned into a flaring comet and consequently all hell broke lose on Earth and the neighbourhood.

I have yet to receive Laura's book, which I can hardly wait to read, but I certainly will be keeping in mind David Talbott's mythology theories and research.I find them interesting and thought provoking as well as physicist Wallace Thornhill's work.It helps to remember the baby and bathwater saying, OSIT.

Here's an example:

_http://electric-cosmos.org/ouruniverse.htm

Interdisciplinary physicist Wal Thornhill ventures that, at one time, Earth may have been within the protective aura of a cool brown dwarf star, the proto-Saturn, which provided an ideal atmosphere for life on Earth. Given this configuration, Earth would have been bathed in Saturn's constant beneficent glow with no difference between day and night and a continual benign single season. This was the time "before time" that Talbott theorizes was the "Golden Age", "Age of Perfect Virtue", or "Garden of Eden", depicted in one way or another in all diverse myths and religions.

Data said:
psychegram said:
It makes me wonder if Thunderbolts is COINTELPRO.

Yeah, we should be on the watchout for any odd signs. If they are onto something, they will be the target of all kinds of attacks.

I've subscribed to their newsletter to stay informed.

Precisely. And this isn't exactly a new position here, to be fair. The Ruggero Santilli 'Telesio Academy' has given awards to Wal Thornhill, who's probably the most legitimate scientist propounding EU.

_https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=27261.0
 
psychegram said:
Interdisciplinary physicist Wal Thornhill ventures that, at one time, Earth may have been within the protective aura of a cool brown dwarf star, the proto-Saturn, which provided an ideal atmosphere for life on Earth. Given this configuration, Earth would have been bathed in Saturn's constant beneficent glow with no difference between day and night and a continual benign single season. This was the time "before time" that Talbott theorizes was the "Golden Age", "Age of Perfect Virtue", or "Garden of Eden", depicted in one way or another in all diverse myths and religions.

To me, that still doesn't read as 'orbiting'. It more brings to mind the parts of Scandinavia of today that don't have total night darkness and the possibility that in ancient times land masses were located in different parts of Earth than they are now.
No big deal really, just flexing the ol' imagination.


Edit=Quote
 
New video arrived in the Thunderbolts newsletter, discussing 3km dark-red asteroid 1998 QE2 which has a satellite of 750m diameter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BzdWkc9igw

Short summary:
---
Dr. Tom Van Flandern in his book Dark Matter, Missing Planets & New Comets says that such small satellites would escape from their orbit within 10 Thousand to 10 Million years due to tidal forces. However, Dr. Patrick Tyler said that about 1 out of 6 near Earth asteroids have moons. This abundance is difficult to explain unless these asteroids were created in the recent past.

Also there is the question which formative processes allowed asteroids with very weak gravity to actually capture a satellite. Wallace Thornhill suggests that asteroids were torn out of planets during electrical discharges.
---
 
stellar said:
psychegram said:
Interdisciplinary physicist Wal Thornhill ventures that, at one time, Earth may have been within the protective aura of a cool brown dwarf star, the proto-Saturn, which provided an ideal atmosphere for life on Earth. Given this configuration, Earth would have been bathed in Saturn's constant beneficent glow with no difference between day and night and a continual benign single season. This was the time "before time" that Talbott theorizes was the "Golden Age", "Age of Perfect Virtue", or "Garden of Eden", depicted in one way or another in all diverse myths and religions.

To me, that still doesn't read as 'orbiting'. It more brings to mind the parts of Scandinavia of today that don't have total night darkness and the possibility that in ancient times land masses were located in different parts of Earth than they are now.
No big deal really, just flexing the ol' imagination.

Yes, 'orbiting' was likely the wrong word to use for this. Nevertheless the suggestion that the planetary configuration was radically different in the recent past, and in a fashion that seems inconsistent with everything we know about orbital dynamics, strikes me as rather far-fetched.

Edit=Quote
 
psychegram said:
stellar said:
psychegram said:
Interdisciplinary physicist Wal Thornhill ventures that, at one time, Earth may have been within the protective aura of a cool brown dwarf star, the proto-Saturn, which provided an ideal atmosphere for life on Earth. Given this configuration, Earth would have been bathed in Saturn's constant beneficent glow with no difference between day and night and a continual benign single season. This was the time "before time" that Talbott theorizes was the "Golden Age", "Age of Perfect Virtue", or "Garden of Eden", depicted in one way or another in all diverse myths and religions.

To me, that still doesn't read as 'orbiting'. It more brings to mind the parts of Scandinavia of today that don't have total night darkness and the possibility that in ancient times land masses were located in different parts of Earth than they are now.
No big deal really, just flexing the ol' imagination.

Yes, 'orbiting' was likely the wrong word to use for this. Nevertheless the suggestion that the planetary configuration was radically different in the recent past, and in a fashion that seems inconsistent with everything we know about orbital dynamics, strikes me as rather far-fetched.

Edit=Quote
Perhaps as inconsistent as Venus rotating backwards?

I don't know why but I'm still keeping an open mind to the possibility.
Huge electrical scarring on Mars, Venus' cometary magnetosphere when it was first discovered was seen stretching all the way to Earth....just seems like there is something to all these possibilities that, in my mind, are worth looking at over time as new info/research becomes available.

I just keep thinking how much of what I thought I once knew is now not so or completely the opposite.So I think I'll stay open minded on this too.
 
psychegram said:
It makes me wonder if Thunderbolts is COINTELPRO.

Found this little article regarding origins of the electric comet theory. Interesting even if it came from Rense website. :)

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/electric_universe/esp_electricuniverse21.htm

Both Thornhill and McCanney are discussed. Velikovsky too.

Several significant differences were highlighted in this summary. Thornhill (Juergen's Model) believes the electric field in outer regions of the solar system to be negative. McCanney OTOH claims the solar wind to be an excess of protons...hence outer solar system region positively charged.

This March 23, 2013 session excerpt provides perhaps a hint as to which is which.

Belibaste: Is it that locally, the place, is it more positive, or more negative than the asteroid or meteorite?
A: neg

It seems a more negatively charged location on earth will be more likely struck by incoming (positively charged?) objects. This puts the odds in favor of McCanney?

Another significant difference has to do with the flow of material in comets. Thornhill thinks materials are ejected from comets as in comet tails. McCanney believes material is actually flowing into comets (via same comet tail)...making them grow in size.

The C's I think have indicated that comets do grow in size as they come through the solar system.
 
Google, You Tube Automated copy right infringement policy, or a deliberate censoring of the "ELECTRIC COMET DOCUMENTARY" ?

THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT
Update August 3, 2013
NOW ON VIMEO
_http://vimeo.com/71642784


From Dave Talbott
dtalbott@teleport.com via bizmailtoday.com
The recent YouTube takedown of the Thunderbolts Project "Electric Comet" documentary has provoked a remarkable response, suggesting that a large and growing community understands very well the issues at stake.

The takedown was due to a single complaint of copyright infringement by astronomer Travis Rector at the University of Alaska. Prompted by astronomer Sean Walker, Rector filed a complaint with YouTube, in disregard for both fair use and fair play. Unwittingly, he provoked an outpouring of criticism that caused him to hide the story he'd published on his own Facebook page as criticism continued to pour in.

On matters such as this, public consciousness has come a long way in recent years. Take away the fair use principle and the same people who manage taxpayer funding within the sciences will also control the flow of information and ideas. When foundational theory is thrown into question, a publicly supported jobs program will typically resort to science by news release. Its advocates will seek to maintain an illusion, to suggest that "all is well in our science." But what if facts discovered by their own scientists challenge the cover story from start to finish? That's when the program's Inquisitors will resort to "copyright infringement" claims, seeking to deny public access to data and images gathered at taxpayer expense.

YouTube is a huge enterprise, and it's understandable that copyright and fair use issues are left almost entirely to an automated system. To move beyond the automated process may require litigation. Our own intent is to go to court if necessary. The essential contribution of fact-based criticism in the sciences REQUIRES the fair use principle, and the documentary in question is the poster child for fair use—an ideal opportunity to test well-established but often-ignored provisions of the law. (See our forthcoming report within the next ten days.)

In the meantime, we've now placed the documentary on Vimeo, which is the leading alternative to YouTube, particularly for communities exploring challenges to institutionalized theory:
_https://vimeo.com/71642784

If you have any doubt as to the objective value of the "Electric Comet" documentary, we invite you to review this factual presentation (still in its original form for critical review prior to the final edit). Please speak up for the essential principles of fair use and fair play—wherever you can reach people who care about truth first and not the preservation of cherished dogma in the sciences.

Comet ISON (C/2012 S1)
Posted on July 28, 2013 by Stephen Smith

_http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2013/07/28/comet-ison-c2012-s1/
The Hubble Space Telescope has returned remarkable images of Comet ISON, revealing structures that appear to confirm the electrical nature of comets.

Recent observations of Comet Pan-STARRS in April of 2013 confirmed that it would not be one of the “comets of the century” that astronomers are hoping for this year. The next comet that is slated for a dazzling display is Comet ISON.

Comet ISON is already demonstrating the electrical characteristics that are familiar to Electric Universe proponents: multiple tails, bright jets, and the presence of carbon in large quantities. According to astronomers, the comet has “not yet” shown any indication of water vapor. The so-called “venting” of water vapor should take place as the comet gets closer to the Sun, as theory suggests.

Many articles have been written about the misrepresentations and misinterpretations from NASA scientists when it comes to comets. In fact, a major issue of fair use policy and public access to information gathered by publicly funded institutions is now being debated by Electric Universe advocates and some members of those institutions related to comets.

An October 2007 Picture of the Day described the behavior of Holmes 17P and noted that many of the observed phenomena could be explained by an electrical theory of comets. Since these pages were first published, Electric Universe theorists have challenged the prevailing “dusty snowball” cometary theory. Comets becoming active at long distances from the Sun—sometimes as far out as Neptune’s orbit—contradict the idea of a frozen ball of ice that only grows a tail or emits jets of gas when it gets close enough for the Sun’s heat to sublimate its surface.

Hale-Bopp, a naked-eye comet that hung for weeks like an exclamation mark in the 1997 sky, was still active four years after it left the inner solar system. When it was farther from the Sun than the orbit of Uranus it was almost two million kilometers in diameter. It displayed a coma, a dust tail, and an ion tail more than a million kilometers long. Solar radiation will not melt ice at that distance, otherwise the moons of Saturn and Jupiter would be bone dry, so astronomers were unable to explain it.

In August of 2007, Comet Linear broke apart during its closest approach to the Sun. When the cloud of debris was analyzed, astronomers were surprised to find that it contained about 100 times more rocky material than ice.

The European Space Agency’s Giotto probe met Halley’s Comet on March 16, 1986. Among several discoveries, the comet was found to be covered with a black crust. Bright jets of ionized gas, or plasma, blasted out from its surface in three highly localized areas. Water was present in Halley’s coma, but according to Horst Uwe Keller of the Max Planck Institut für Aeronomie: “We discovered that a comet is not really a ‘dirty snowball’ since dirt is dominant, not ice. Instead of being spherical like a warm snowball, a comet nucleus is elongated. The physical structure of a comet’s interior is defined by its dust content rather than its ice content.”

Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 fragmented into several large pieces that plunged into Jupiter’s atmosphere during the summer of 1994. It was hoped that the remnants of the fractured nucleus would expose fresh ices that would then sublimate. Spectrographic results from the Hubble Space Telescope showed no evidence for volatile gases in the debris clouds around the fragments. Auroral emissions were also detected in the atmosphere of Jupiter after the impact of fragment K, something that was unexpected and then attributed to “snowplow” effects as shock waves pushed the atmosphere aside.

What were the “streamers” found inside the shell of gas and dust that made up the haze around Holmes 17P? Spitzer team members could not determine why the twisted threads of material continued to point in the same direction. They remained in the same alignment despite several months of travel. As has been discussed in previous Picture of the Day articles, the braided filaments are the sign of helical Birkeland currents.

Outbursts like those on Holmes 17P, and now the carbon dioxide outgassing observed on Comet ISON, are how Electric Universe theorists expect comet tails to be produced. Because electric discharges are capable of removing solid material from surfaces, no volatile gases exploding out of “trapped pockets,” then pushed away by radiation pressure, are necessary. A comet will produce a tail when electrical stress reaches a critical point and its plasma sheath starts to glow. Irrespective of its composition, a comet will obey the fundamental behavior of charged objects interacting with one another.

A comet’s tail is created when its electric charge it struck by solar discharge plasma, conventionally called the “solar wind.” As a comet approaches the Sun, its nucleus moves through envelopes of increased charge density. Its surface charge and internal polarization, developed in deep space, respond to the Sun’s charged environment, changing its electrical potential.

As it moves away from the Sun, a comet’s electrical balance with respect to the outer solar system will be different than when it was on its inward trajectory. If it meets another electrified plasma field of some kind it could begin to discharge again. What more electrically dynamic region than the one that exists around the gas giant planets?

Recent revelations about comets are more easily understood within the electric comet theory than within theories that depend on gravity and sublimation. The black, burned nuclei; the craters and rocky landscapes instead of ice fields; the narrow, energetic jets; the ion tails pointing toward the Sun; the sulfur compounds that require high temperatures to form; and the abundance of ultra-fine dust all point to electricity as their common source. Most important of all, water vapor is more prevalent farther away from the nucleus than close in—surely the exact opposite of what should be found if water ice and frost are what drive cometary jets.


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Interesting video lecture by Wallace Thornhill from the recent Thunderbolts newsletter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxaP91FdijU

YouTube said:
At the 20th annual meeting of the Natural Philosophy Alliance, Australian physicist Wallace Thornhill recounted his personal odyssey, starting with inspiration from Immanuel Velikovsky and culminating in an interdisciplinary perspective on the "Electric Universe." Also at this meeting, Wal received the distinguished Sagnac Award for his lifelong contribution to science.

Especially interesting is the second half where he provides evidence of interstellar and even intergalactic Birkeland currents. It seems that those currents actually 'power' galaxies (and stars, and everything below that). I can't help it, this overall picture matches beautifully with Gurdjieff's "worlds".
 
Data said:
Interesting video lecture by Wallace Thornhill from the recent Thunderbolts newsletter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxaP91FdijU

YouTube said:
At the 20th annual meeting of the Natural Philosophy Alliance, Australian physicist Wallace Thornhill recounted his personal odyssey, starting with inspiration from Immanuel Velikovsky and culminating in an interdisciplinary perspective on the "Electric Universe." Also at this meeting, Wal received the distinguished Sagnac Award for his lifelong contribution to science.

Especially interesting is the second half where he provides evidence of interstellar and even intergalactic Birkeland currents. It seems that those currents actually 'power' galaxies (and stars, and everything below that). I can't help it, this overall picture matches beautifully with Gurdjieff's "worlds".

Excellent video Data! - Thanks
 
Data said:
Interesting video lecture by Wallace Thornhill from the recent Thunderbolts newsletter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxaP91FdijU

YouTube said:
At the 20th annual meeting of the Natural Philosophy Alliance, Australian physicist Wallace Thornhill recounted his personal odyssey, starting with inspiration from Immanuel Velikovsky and culminating in an interdisciplinary perspective on the "Electric Universe." Also at this meeting, Wal received the distinguished Sagnac Award for his lifelong contribution to science.

Especially interesting is the second half where he provides evidence of interstellar and even intergalactic Birkeland currents. It seems that those currents actually 'power' galaxies (and stars, and everything below that). I can't help it, this overall picture matches beautifully with Gurdjieff's "worlds".

Just watched the lecture, and yes, it was fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

What I found personally most interesting (most of the science aspects, e.g. intergalactic Birkeland currents, is old hat for me as I've been hanging out on EU sites for years now) was Thornhill's clearly stated awareness of how EU differs from gravitation/Big Bang/"Standard Model" cosmology at the level of deep metaphor: connection of all things, as supposed to separation. It's this aspect which is, to me, perhaps the most compelling attribute of EU: that it offers a vision of a living cosmos, of a universe of which the human world is an organic part ... rather than a cold, dead, alienating vastness. The current social cosmos contributes mainly to making people feel small and meaningless ... terrified by the scale and emptiness of it all, many people simply don't want to know more, and so do not try and learn more. It's clear how such a cosmos aids the power elite ... and equally clear how an EU cosmos empowers the people.

Take one example:

Standard Model: Galaxies are ruled by a mixture of dark matter (invisible, unknowable ... like say, the CIA) and the central black hole (a greedy autocrat squatting at the centre).
EU: Galaxies are formed by dancing Birkeland currents; the dense plasma focus at the centre, which serves to redistribute matter and energy, is the result of the cooperation of matter and energy (self-organizing plasma) over vast scales of time and space ... with no central direction required.

Just one example. There are so many others once you know to look for them.
 
sitting said:
psychegram said:
It makes me wonder if Thunderbolts is COINTELPRO.



Found this little article regarding origins of the electric comet theory. Interesting even if it came from Rense website. :)


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/electric_universe/esp_electricuniverse21.htm


Both Thornhill and McCanney are discussed. Velikovsky too.

Several significant differences were highlighted in this summary. Thornhill (Juergen's Model) believes the electric field in outer regions of the solar system to be negative. McCanney OTOH claims the solar wind to be an excess of protons...hence outer solar system region positively charged.

This March 23, 2013 session excerpt provides perhaps a hint as to which is which.

Belibaste: Is it that locally, the place, is it more positive, or more negative than the asteroid or meteorite?
A: neg

It seems a more negatively charged location on earth will be more likely struck by incoming (positively charged?) objects. This puts the odds in favor of McCanney?

Another significant difference has to do with the flow of material in comets. Thornhill thinks materials are ejected from comets as in comet tails. McCanney believes material is actually flowing into comets (via same comet tail)...making them grow in size.

The C's I think have indicated that comets do grow in size as they come through the solar system.

Sometimes I find it easier to recognize the potential differences rather than nailing down the exact charge of negative or positive. Chemist and electrical engineers have been at odds for decades about this issue. However, one thing is certain, if their charges are different/there exist a potential gradient, then there will be a balancing force of the two trying to come together in order to balance out the charge.

An additional thought that popped into my head is that a bigger mass would naturally contain more electrons than something smaller so maybe that is why the earth or any other huge celestial body would be more negatively charged than a comet. The rational being that everything should be compared as relative to one another opposed to absolute charges.

For example: One could think of electrons being negatively charged (as far as i've seen the + and - of protons and electrons are arbitrarily chosen and are really only there as place holders to represent charge differences. I could be wrong though) So a greater abundance of electrons could be seen as a bigger negative charge OR conversely more electrons or additional electrons hence a plus sign could be used. Electrical engineers tend to adhere to the latter notion but I think as long as there is some differentiation between the charges one could worry less about the actual charge and more about the potential difference that accumulates from separation or movement through insulators. Ah a comet moving through space (could space be considered an insulator while allowing plasma to travel through discreetly?) would pick up positive charge (losing electrons to said insulator) similar to how rubbing your hair on a balloon would produce static charge.

As for the growing tail maybe as the charge increases the plasma arc responds accordingly. Similar to some plasma experiments done under vacuum. The greater the charge the bigger the glow. I think a stronger vacuum would enhance this glow phenomena as well.

I finished the lecture this morning as well and I must say it is indeed fascinating. Seems like a breath of fresh air compared to conventional or mainstream theories in my opinion. I will definitely read World's in Collision.
 
Fascinating 20 minute talk by physicist and mathematician Michael Clarage. Well worth watching. This talk is more of a cosmological/philosophical nature of the EU theory.

He's talking about the worlds withing worlds cosmology where everything is interconnected rather than separated, and that each world is a transformer for energies, exchanging it in two directions (inflowing, outflowing) with the parent/child world. He mentions that the brighness of stars is a function of the electrical currents transformed by them. Also interesting is his discussion of supernovae. His interpretation is that a star which goes supernova has found a way to transform more energy for the galaxy and therefore "becomes more useful" to the galaxys purposes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OI77ERlDs8

Video description from YouTube:

YouTube said:
Over the last 200 years the word "cosmology" has come to mean only stars, galaxies, and enormous, lonely reaches of space -- a vast expanse of cosmic islands where humans have no meaningful place. But in most cultures today cosmology is a way of thinking about the entire universe, including such small microcosms as we men and women. The EU paradigm is moving scientific thinking towards a cosmology that once again encompasses everything we know about the universe, including ourselves.

Michael received his PhD in physics in 1992 from Brandeis University, working under Don Caspar, studying the biological and statistical behavior of proteins. Prior to that, he spent several years studying binary pulsars with Joel Weisberg at the Arecibo radio telescope. With his brother, he gave traveling lectures about their discoveries in the areas of fractional calculus, fractals, and chaotic systems. He is self published in philosophy and children's stories (both available on lulu.com). Over the past 15 years, he has presented public lectures on such topics as Relativity and Dimensions, Metaphysics in Biology, Transformation in Supernova and Metamorphosis in Biology.
 
This interesting article, "Supernova 1987A Decoded", takes the closest-to-earth supernova 1987A to make a point that supernovae are "catastrophic electrical discharges focused on a star". However, if we consider the video lecture that I posted above, maybe it's not that catastrophic because it serves a certain purpose.

The supernova 1987A's characteristic is the bright ring, which consists of individual 'pearls'. The article argues that this ring is not 'made of' the ejected material of the star, but rather is an effect of a galactic Birkeland current (in the form of a tube) which lightens up the ejected material. As I understand it, this current flows orthogonally through the 'plane/cloud' of the ejected material. Apparently this ring is not expanding but has a constant diameter, which is unusual if it were ejected matter.

At the end of the article you'll see that such tube-like plasa currents (with a separation in 56 individual filaments) have been created in labs before, only in micro-scale. In plasma physics they call it the "z-pinch".

The article goes on to speculate that building of ancient stone circles could have been inspired by the knowledge of such tube-like Birkeland currents with individual filaments. It claims that Stonehenge had 56 stones (corresponding to the 56 filaments that seem to be an inherent symmetry in certain plasma currents), but I haven't been able to verify that.

http://www.holoscience.com/wp/supernova-1987a-decoded-2/?article=re6qxnz1
 
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