Do-it-yourself liposomal nutrients

Voyageur

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dtjessup said:
Suggest organic sunflower lecithin powder as opposed to soy.

https://www.quantumbalancing.com/liposomalC.htm

It's been mentioned before and might try the Sunflower-L with the traditional method I've been using. With the prescribed method in the link cited, was curious as to why the focus on avoiding the use of metal and how that would work out with the stainless steel ultrasonic process, and then it was detailed:

A note on ultrasonic frequencies

When the lecithin-ascorbic acid mix is poured directly into the steel well of the ultrasonic unit the ultrasonic vibrations will cause nanoparticles of metal to migrate into the liposomal vitamin C solution. Therefore it is better to use borosilicate glass as the receptacle to hold the lecithin-ascorbic acid solution. The ultrasonic waves pass from the metal bottom of the ultrasonic unit directly through the borosilicate glass flask and into the fluid. (For good reason, scientific laboratories use borosilicate glass, rather than metal for their research work.)
 

Mildain

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voyageur said:
dtjessup said:
Suggest organic sunflower lecithin powder as opposed to soy.

https://www.quantumbalancing.com/liposomalC.htm

It's been mentioned before and might try the Sunflower-L with the traditional method I've been using. With the prescribed method in the link cited, was curious as to why the focus on avoiding the use of metal and how that would work out with the stainless steel ultrasonic process, and then it was detailed:

A note on ultrasonic frequencies

When the lecithin-ascorbic acid mix is poured directly into the steel well of the ultrasonic unit the ultrasonic vibrations will cause nanoparticles of metal to migrate into the liposomal vitamin C solution. Therefore it is better to use borosilicate glass as the receptacle to hold the lecithin-ascorbic acid solution. The ultrasonic waves pass from the metal bottom of the ultrasonic unit directly through the borosilicate glass flask and into the fluid. (For good reason, scientific laboratories use borosilicate glass, rather than metal for their research work.)

Thank you for the info voyageur. I didnt take this step, but will follow this for the next batch. Wondering if the amount of time needed to produce the liposomes would be longer ? My machine can operate for 99 mins/cycle max, so would it be a good idea to increase the amount of time the ultrasonic cleaner is running ? The last batch i had run for 60 minutes, until i saw the 'bubbling' dissappear.

I added a photo to show what my batch looks like using laura's recipe (using ascorbic acid, sodium bicarbonate, and Now brand sunflower lecithin)

Thanks to everyone else coming up with all the great info.
 

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Voyageur

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Mildain said:
Thank you for the info voyageur. I didnt take this step, but will follow this for the next batch. Wondering if the amount of time needed to produce the liposomes would be longer ? My machine can operate for 99 mins/cycle max, so would it be a good idea to increase the amount of time the ultrasonic cleaner is running ? The last batch i had run for 60 minutes, until i saw the 'bubbling' dissappear.

I added a photo to show what my batch looks like using laura's recipe (using ascorbic acid, sodium bicarbonate, and Now brand sunflower lecithin)

Thanks to everyone else coming up with all the great info.

Not sure what others do. The machine I have has intervals up to 480 seconds, so I run it x 3 for a total of 24 minutes, fwiw.
 

Persej

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Foxx said:
That does sound like quite a process Loray! Since a lot of other people have had good results with liposomal vitamin C made with the recipe here, it might be worth trying out since it's a significantly faster and easier process. You could potentially run an experiment using one batch for a few days then switching to the simpler recipe and using that batch for a few days and see if there's a notable difference in bowel tolerance--if not, then it's likely that the more complicated method isn't producing a significantly higher quality result (if at all).

Actually, his method is not complicated at all. He just made it more complicated than it should be. Instead of mixing it and beaking it several times, he could just dissolve lecithin in water overnight and do a single mixing and baking steps.

The only significant difference between his method and ours is the addition of alcohol. I will have to read that patent before I understand how the alcohol plays a role. He is right that LivOn uses 12% alcohol in their liposomal products but they do say that it is used as a natural preservative. I don't know yet does it play a role in making the liposomes.

I see now that this subject was already discussed here: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,37690.0.html

There is one more thing that I don't understand:

1. Measure alcohol and add to a one litre glass beaker, add water and then ascorbic acid and stir with a glass rod
2. Place beaker suspended in ultrasonic bath and stir intermittently until it has dissolved.

Why do you need to dissolve vitamin C with the baker when ordinary mixing would do it? That part doesn't make sense.
 

Goemon_

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Sunday I started to have symptoms of what I would call a bad cold (don't clearly remember being so sick before).

1) First though was "Vitamin C is your friend". Took something like 7 big tsp along the day (probably around 20 gr).

2) Next day, I didn't felt better. Thought "Liposomal". Had to review the receipe. Found one at the beginning of this thread. Assumed 2 tsp = 1 TBS, ended with a light version. Probably 20 gr of Ascorbic Acid in it. Drinked the 2 cups in 27 hours.

3) That leads us to tuesday (3rd day) arround 2 PM. By this time, had finish to re-read this all thread, and had remember where I did put my Sodium Ascorbate. Made the heavy version (with 6 TBS of Sodium Ascorbate for 2 cups). Drank 25 ml times 4 between 3 PM and 6 PM. Had reach bowel tolerance soon after the last dose. Stopped the taking until... I wake up coughing, get up to see if it is late enough to stay up... 1 O'clock. Took an other 25 ml, got back to bed.

4) Today: Took 25 ml times 3 or 4, reached bowel tolerance, waited 3 hours and took 15 ml. That was arround 4 PM.


So, I was clearly better on the third day, much much less "blow your nose", but still a lot of dry coughing, and global pain.
4th day : ditto.

Now, I remember from my youth that Vicks VapoRub did a good job. I would prefer not to take the stuff today as it seems to contain bad stuff. Foud several recipes said to be equivalent, one of wich I have the ingredients.
So I will go with 60 ml of coconut oil and 12 drop of lavender essential oil.
Also happend to have inherited some lavender, so had start to sniff it while waiting for the coconut oil to cool down.

If anyone has any other idea to help me go through this, it will be much appreciated.

Hope I will be better tomorrow. I am not so far of suicidal thoughts ;)
 

hlat

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Goemon_ said:
Sunday I started to have symptoms of what I would call a bad cold (don't clearly remember being so sick before).

1) First though was "Vitamin C is your friend". Took something like 7 big tsp along the day (probably around 20 gr).

2) Next day, I didn't felt better. Thought "Liposomal". Had to review the receipe. Found one at the beginning of this thread. Assumed 2 tsp = 1 TBS, ended with a light version. Probably 20 gr of Ascorbic Acid in it. Drinked the 2 cups in 27 hours.

3) That leads us to tuesday (3rd day) arround 2 PM. By this time, had finish to re-read this all thread, and had remember where I did put my Sodium Ascorbate. Made the heavy version (with 6 TBS of Sodium Ascorbate for 2 cups). Drank 25 ml times 4 between 3 PM and 6 PM. Had reach bowel tolerance soon after the last dose. Stopped the taking until... I wake up coughing, get up to see if it is late enough to stay up... 1 O'clock. Took an other 25 ml, got back to bed.

4) Today: Took 25 ml times 3 or 4, reached bowel tolerance, waited 3 hours and took 15 ml. That was arround 4 PM.


So, I was clearly better on the third day, much much less "blow your nose", but still a lot of dry coughing, and global pain.
4th day : ditto.

Now, I remember from my youth that Vicks VapoRub did a good job. I would prefer not to take the stuff today as it seems to contain bad stuff. Foud several recipes said to be equivalent, one of wich I have the ingredients.
So I will go with 60 ml of coconut oil and 12 drop of lavender essential oil.
Also happend to have inherited some lavender, so had start to sniff it while waiting for the coconut oil to cool down.

If anyone has any other idea to help me go through this, it will be much appreciated.

Hope I will be better tomorrow. I am not so far of suicidal thoughts ;)

I think to maximize the effectiveness of the vitamin C, you need to take a certain amount at intervals until you are near bowel tolerance. For example, 5 grams every 30 minutes. If that's too much too fast, then maybe 3 grams every 45 minutes. If you didn't near bowel tolerance the first 2 days, then you probably needed more, so it's good that you got reached bowel tolerance on days 3 and 4. 20 grams is not a lot when you are sick, though it is a lot when you are not sick.

Lots of sleep and rest is probably a good idea.

Global pain sounds bad. Have you thought about seeing a doctor to check for bacterial infection?
 

Goemon_

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There is a saying that goes like that : If you have a cold and go to the doctor, it will last 15 days, if you don't go to the doctor, it will last 2 weeks. So, no, I didn't thought about seeing a doctor to check for bacterial infection.

Also, what I call "global pain" is pain in the back, shoulder, servi and all joints. I have those chronic pains since a long time. Sometimes they are high, some times they are low. Now, they are kind of high and with the "a cold" sensation added to them.

5) Now, is day 5. I am much better. The coughing is less strong, putting my abnominal muscles to a rest.
 

Nienna

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When I have a cold (or other sinus/cough concerns), I take 2 grams every 45 minutes to an hour until reaching bowel tolerance. Usually by the 3rd dose I start to feel better, but continue throughout the day. After the second day, the cold is much less of a problem.

From what I've read about Vitamin C, your body can only use so much at a time. That's why taking smaller doses at intervals helps much better. What your body can't use in a certain amount of time, it eliminates.
 

Cosmos

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This is a repost from another thread, that I think belongs here as well:

I've researched the topic of Vitamin C delivery to the body a while now with a particular emphasis on making "Liposomal Vitamin C" at home, especially for serious and acute health issues.

Early on I started to realize though, while looking at all kinds of recipes on making it and scientific articles, both from lay persons and professionals in science and the brands manufactures who sell Vitam-C as Liposomal products, that there is a great deal of confusion about this topic and everyone basically seemed to have different opinions about what Liposomal really is and if it can be made with simple tools at home at all, without many facts being available.

At the end of this gathering of data I basically concluded that there isn't really any proof that the simple recipes people on the net provide via ultrasonic cleaning apparatuses and the like do produce Liposomal products and thought it is rather likely that what is actually produced there is an emulsion, which is something quite different. See more about that below .

So I started to make the "Lipo-Vit-C" myself with various methods and recipes from the Net, while trying to also use a rather "strong" ultrasonic unit. There is also a wild discussion what amount of power is really needed and what waves, amplitudes, Herz etc. have to be used to produce Liposomes.

Then I also looked very casually into some of patented recipes that involve alcohol in the process from companies who claim to create Liposomes and then basically realized, what I started to assume already, that the process itself for producing them is probably far more difficult and maybe involves a number of complex chemical guidelines that also depend on temperature, mixing time etc.

Having had quite a bit personal experience in applying a bit more complex chemistry to produce a desired outcome in the past, I knew that what sounds so simple could be rather difficult in reality. I also tried to use two simple chemical methods, of which I found one on the internet and the other one after talking to friends, to find a way to "easily determine" what I actually produced at home, since I wanted some concrete data, which no one seemed to provide on the net, on what I was actually producing, aka. Liposomes or something else like an emulsion.

The idea most commonly used on the net is Natron and trying to see what chemical reaction the produced product has to it, compared to simple vitamin c, dissolved in water. The other one was using Iodine, since I knew that it dissolves (becomes invisible) when it comes in direct contact with Vitamin C. Tried both and wasn't sure what to make of the results, since I thought, there are probably more variables at play and it isn't that simple. The basic idea floating around the net is that Natron shouldn't react, or much less strongly, when it comes in contact with Lipo-C, compared to normal Vit-C (producing a less bubbly reaction or delayed bubbly reaction) and that this than is supposed to be "proof" that we have Liposomes.

Turned out that this couldn't convince me of anything really in either direction, since again I thought this is a bit oversimplified and missing some concrete data I was yet unaware of. While doing all of that, I also came across the idea of bioavailability and how Vit-C Liposomes seem to be far superior in that regard but again not really knowing what this means and how it applies to it.

Recently I did new batches of "home made Lipo-Vit-C", and made a simply bowl experiment, calculated how much Vit-C should be in what I swallowed and seeing how my body reacts to it, thinking that the body might react far less, bowl movement wise, if it is "Liposomal". So I took a rather large dos is in one go (of about 12 grams of Vit-C dissolved and prepared in this amount of "homemade liposomal Vit-C"), just to see the reaction.

After an hour or so my bowls reacted, but far less serverly as I expected, so my assumption was that indeed, at least some significant amount of that Vit-C must have changes into Liposomes or something like that. In the end of all of this I came to the conclusion that what you would really need is a electron microscope or a lap that can look at it in this way, otherwise you can't be sure at all.

Fast forward to today, I watched a three part series in german from a guy who started out doing the Lipo-Vit-C at home as well and in the course of those three videos (and years in between) encountered many of the same questions and confusions I described above, about what is actually produced in those homemade recipes, coming to the same tentative result as I have, that Lipo-C might indeed be something different that can't be produced at home so simply.

In one of those videos a guy linked the following presentation about Lipo-Vit-C from Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD, which described many of the same problems and finally lit a number of light bulbs about that topic in me, which seems to be in accordance with my observations and others on the net.


Not only is Levy doing a great job in finally explaining clearly what Liposomes actually are and what not, but also how true Liposomal products, which are very specific in their membrane forms and sizes to even be able to do miracles in the body, seem to clearly surpass even Intravenous-Vit-C, for very logical reasons. He also talks about what bio availability really means and that this is also rather complex. He states quite clearly, and I think he is right, that home made "Lipos" are not Lipos, but emulsions of Micells which makes a huge different in what it can and can not do. Lipos vary in size from 100 - 500 nanometers (and can't be produced with those homemade lipos recipes) and Micells are of at least one order in magnitude bigger size around 1000+ Nanometers and have quite another, one layered shell structure, which has its limits to pass through and interact with the body.

Lipos can pass, do to their size and at least doubled layered structure, in which the core has a payload of the material (in this case Vit-C) that needs to be delivered, right through the gut into the blood stream and extra and even intracellular structures. Micells on the other hand, do to their larger size and only one layered structure, without an inner core , can only go to the lymphatic sytem for example, but not really farther than that; aka not anywhere near to cells. What he does say though, which seems to be in accordance with what I have gathered so far, is that homemade "Lipo-C" which should be properly called "Mico-C" in my opinion, is indeed far more effective that normal vitamin C. So I think it is a good idea to use it instead of normal Vitamin C. He also explains why it is comparing apples with oranges when science papers try to determine the effectiveness of Intravenous Vit-C in comparison with Lipo-C, by studying the blood levels. Very interesting!

I highly reccomed watching this in full, since he brings up so many interesting facts and results, also about Intravenous-Vit-C compared to Lipo-C, that I think it is a must watch in that regard. He also mentions his Multi-C-Protocol, which I think is the best we can do for serious cases at the moment and not only that. The most important component is Lipo-C in there. Here is the Protocoll from the video and I think the normal Vit-C for the bowl tolerance barrier could be substituted by homemade Mico-C.

I think this is the best Protocol we have available at this point, that you can use pretty much against anything, including cancers, infections, inflammatory diseases and even mundane stuff etc, VERY EFFECTIVELY, varying the amounts and specifics according to the given need...

The Multi-C Protocol:

Unbenannt 3.jpg

By now I'm also rather convinced that some, if not many, especially the cheap brands, of Lipo-Vit-C providers, actually provide you with Mico-C-Emulsions rather then Lipo-C. If a brand does not clearly state what makes their product Lipo, like Nanometer sizes between 100 and 500, lab results, facilities and Patents that are used, and their stuff is rather cheap on top, it could very well be that it is not Lipo. I guess there are also legal loopholes some of those companies use to promote their products as "Lipo", while in fact what they sell are cheap Emulsions (you can do at home) for huge profits as "Lipos".

On the other hand, I think, a couple of brands have enough credibility and concrete things to back up their claims, to be fairly certain that it is Lipo. Unfortunately they are usually pretty expensive, which is largely do to the high production cost in labs and they usually contain alcohol. I heard somewhere that if you would like to buy some of the ultrasonic equipment they use to produce lyposomes at home, you would need at least 17.000 € or so to buy it and a lot of space for the machine. That was just a radome claim however, so I'm not sure.

At this point, discovering more and more about the truly miraculous improvements Vit-C, most especially in Lipo form, seems to provide for pretty much any circumstance and need, I do wonder though how much money exactly and what methods one could use to at least try to built a working Lipo lap at home.

Maybe there are indeed cheaper solutions out there, that the manufacturers keep under raps, that one could build to produce that stuff? It is certainly worth the effort, if something like that could be possible.
 

anartist

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I use a good quality ziplock bag inside the ultrasonic cleaner.
Ziplock brand does not use BPA in their plastics.
Plastics and Leeching

It blocks less of the ultrasonic waves than glass/paper/cardboard.

It also makes cleaning up a snap!

My concern here is that Glad, for example, may not be using BPA, they may be using Bisphenol B, C, E, F, G, M. P, PH, TMC or Z .
I have emailed them, and if I get e reply, will report back here.
 

anartist

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My concern here is that Glad, for example, may not be using BPA, they may be using Bisphenol B, C, E, F, G, M. P, PH, TMC or Z .
I have emailed them, and if I get e reply, will report back here.

This is the reply I have received from SC Johnson (Ziplock)

Subject: Your Inquiry About an SC Johnson Home Storage product Ref#019350147A
roundcube
Fromconsumerproducts@scj.com
DateToday 13:00

Message Body

Hello Ken,
The well-being of those who use our products is very important to us, and I'm glad you asked about Ziploc® brand Bags.
Be assured SC Johnson's food storage products, including Ziploc® brand bags and containers and Saran® brand wraps, do not contain bisphenols. They’re extensively tested for toxicity prior to release on the market and meet or exceed the high standards and regulations set by government regulatory agencies.
You can use Ziploc® bags with confidence, and if you have additional concerns, please feel free to call our Medical & Safety team at 866-231-5406. They will be happy to help and are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.
Best regards,

Shavon
Consumer Relationship Center
SC Johnson, A Family Company

USA | 1-800-558-5252 | scjohnson.com
Canada | 1-800-558-5566 | scjohnson.ca

Reference Number: 019350147A

Comments: Can you tell me if your plastic bags contain any of the following Bisphenols? Bisphenol B, C, E, F, G, M. P, PH, S, TMC or Z?
 

Cosmos

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Found the following quote interesting:

“We have analyzed many commercial and homemade products over the years, and have found that many of them are emulsions.“

Does that mean that some homemade products have Liposomes in them, and if so, how much? Also, if that should be the case, what protocols/recipes/equipment was used?

I would love to experiment to find a cheap way to do it if possible and somehow check the results in a laboratory.

Does anyone happen to have access to a laboratory where different recipes/protocols could be tested for the results and maybe also some realiable brands for comparison?
 

Cosmos

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Found out quite a bit more now about the topic and planning to post some of the results here. A primer: indeed homemade lipo with those simple/cheap methods doesn’t seem to work. But if one is able to invest quite a bit more money (actually a lot more) and effort it might be possible. Went searching a bit differently now and came up with some cocrete data both on how to do it and probably a good/cheap seller for the finished product. Also found at least one good lap that can test lipo/mico mictures for their content, shape and size of liposomes/micos and a number of other labs among which one can also produce very specific variations of Liposomes for the medical industry depending on what the targeted use in the body is (Levy also talked about some of those cutting edge methods to create specific Liposomes for specific targets in the body in the video above).
 
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anartist

Jedi Council Member
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This is the reply I received from Glad

I realize that you do not use Bisphenol A or pthalates in your plastic food bags. Can you tell me if you use Bisphenol B, C, E, F, G, M. P, PH, S, TMC or Z in your plastic food bags?

Alejandro Machado (01/09/2019 12:32 PM)

Thank you for contacting us at Glad. We always appreciate hearing from our consumers.
This is to certify that none of the Glad food containers, wraps, and storage bags and other food contact Products (Glad Press 'n Seal Versatile Sealing Wrap, Glad Press'n Seal Freezer Sealable Wrap, Glad Cling Warp, GladWare Food Containers, Glad Oven Ware, Glad Simply Cooking Microwave Steaming Bags, Glad Food Storage Bags, Glad Freezer Bags, Glad Sandwich Bags, Glad Straws) are made of Polycarbonate nor is Bisphenol A used as a raw material in their production. The food contact resins used in these products comply with the specification contained in the FDA 21 CFR 177.1520 for olefin polymers, and all other components fully comply with applicable US FDA regulations for food contact materials.
We have never used BPA in any of our products. The material is used for epoxy and polycarbonate polymers and not at all in polyethylene products. So there is no historical considerations as we have no products made with BPA .
Lastly, we do not use BPS in these products.
We hope this information has been helpful.

Sincerely,
Glad Consumer Services
 
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