Death of Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh at 99 years of age.

Tuulikki

Jedi Master
Laura is a great teacher, and like all great teachers she doesn't beat around the bush. As she said she has put in the hours and I believe, the pain, to actually bring the most important knowledge of our lives, into our lives. If she told me I was a twitty nit who hadn't been paying attention in her class I would have to accept that and do better in future.

Regarding the Queen, whatever your opinions of hereditary monarchy, you cannot say that she hasn't worked damned hard all her life. She was handed a job she probably did not want and she just got on with it. The majority of Brits think she has done, and is doing, a splendid job. I wouldn't give up my life such as it is, to enjoy a servant bringing me tea and toast when I rang a bell, to have someone else clean the toilet and to have the access to the most fantastic jewels and art in Christendom. I prefer my privacy and the fact that I can walk down the street without cameras flashing and journalists writing lies in order to sell their rags. All this without recourse to saying a word in her defence. I have heard the motto is "never complain, never explain".

As for Philip he worked hard all his life and walked two steps behind. He didn't even get to give his children his own surname. I think the love between them was incredibly strong and lasting. I am not a royalist despite the above but I think we have to give him some respect. After all, who wants to get to 99 with mean corgis' snapping around your ankles all day.:wow:
 

Laura

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There is a reason that Elizabeth did not just step down and walk away: duty. Here is a speech she made on her 21st birthday, and below is a transcript:


Note in the transcript of her words, what I have highlighted at the end. This was her watchword all her life.
On her twenty-first birthday, 21 April 1947, Princess Elizabeth was with her parents and younger sister on a tour of South Africa. In a speech broadcast on the radio from Cape Town, the Princess dedicated her life to the service of the Commonwealth.


On my twenty-first birthday I welcome the opportunity to speak to all the peoples of the British Commonwealth and Empire, wherever they live, whatever race they come from, and whatever language they speak.


Let me begin by saying 'thank you' to all the thousands of kind people who have sent me messages of good will. This is a happy day for me; but it is also one that brings serious thoughts, thoughts of life looming ahead with all its challenges and with all its opportunity.


At such a time it is a great help to know that there are multitudes of friends all round the world who are thinking of me and who wish me well. I am grateful and I am deeply moved.


As I speak to you today from Cape Town I am six thousand miles from the country where I was born. But I am certainly not six thousand miles from home. Everywhere I have travelled in these lovely lands of South Africa and Rhodesia my parents, my sister and I have been taken to the heart of their people and made to feel that we are just as much at home here as if we had lived among them all our lives.


That is the great privilege belonging to our place in the world-wide commonwealth - that there are homes ready to welcome us in every continent of the earth. Before I am much older I hope I shall come to know many of them.


Although there is none of my father's subjects from the oldest to the youngest whom I do not wish to greet, I am thinking especially today of all the young men and women who were born about the same time as myself and have grown up like me in terrible and glorious years of the second world war.


Will you, the youth of the British family of nations, let me speak on my birthday as your representative? Now that we are coming to manhood and womanhood it is surely a great joy to us all to think that we shall be able to take some of the burden off the shoulders of our elders who have fought and worked and suffered to protect our childhood.


We must not be daunted by the anxieties and hardships that the war has left behind for every nation of our commonwealth. We know that these things are the price we cheerfully undertook to pay for the high honour of standing alone, seven years ago, in defence of the liberty of the world. Let us say with Rupert Brooke: "Now God be thanked who has matched us with this hour".


I am sure that you will see our difficulties, in the light that I see them, as the great opportunity for you and me. Most of you have read in the history books the proud saying of William Pitt that England had saved herself by her exertions and would save Europe by her example. But in our time we may say that the British Empire has saved the world first, and has now to save itself after the battle is won.


I think that is an even finer thing than was done in the days of Pitt; and it is for us, who have grown up in these years of danger and glory, to see that it is accomplished in the long years of peace that we all hope stretch ahead.


If we all go forward together with an unwavering faith, a high courage, and a quiet heart, we shall be able to make of this ancient commonwealth, which we all love so dearly, an even grander thing - more free, more prosperous, more happy and a more powerful influence for good in the world - than it has been in the greatest days of our forefathers.


To accomplish that we must give nothing less than the whole of ourselves. There is a motto which has been borne by many of my ancestors - a noble motto, "I serve". Those words were an inspiration to many bygone heirs to the Throne when they made their knightly dedication as they came to manhood. I cannot do quite as they did.


But through the inventions of science I can do what was not possible for any of them. I can make my solemn act of dedication with a whole Empire listening. I should like to make that dedication now. It is very simple.


I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.



But I shall not have strength to carry out this resolution alone unless you join in it with me, as I now invite you to do: I know that your support will be unfailingly given. God help me to make good my vow, and God bless all of you who are willing to share in it.
 

Nienna

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What I see going on here is Laura feeling sorrow for the Queen who lost a husband and companion of many decades. Then, her sense of sorrow is pushed back in her face by someone who thinks the Queen, and her family are evil.

Laura let this person know that they were ignorant on the doings of the Queen. In essence, she was defending someone else to slander. Everyone else who responded negatively were defending themselves and their egos, especially the one who started all of this.

Can you see the difference? Laura was defending someone else. The rest were defending themselves and their egos. There is no comparison. There is also no comparison between the knowledge that Laura has accumulated and the knowledge of many of us others.

It is disgusting how Laura is being flamed by others over her defense of another person that she has found, through her immense studies, to be a good person.

This has only shown how small some people can be.
 

Cosmos

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This discussion reminds me of the way many ordinary people who haven't tried to put oneself into the shoes of another person (let alone researched anything substantial about that person, their history or their circumstances) think they "know" who a person is and feel entitled to bash that person based on that "understanding". Putin and Caesar being two examples of this, where people are convinced that "they are/were bad" (which of course is utter nonsense). It is always a good idea to questions one's assumptions. It is very easy to follow hearsay and assumptions based on simple ignorance about a person and their history and often informed by lies propagated by psychopaths. It is much harder though to really inform oneself about a person and their history and come to an informed standpoint based on that research.

So:

1: If I'm able to see that I really don't know anything about a person or their history and feel myself judgmental about that person nonetheless; I should take a step back and be wise enough to understand that I'm really not in any sensible position to judge that person based on such ignorance. I should be able to understand that I could very well run the risk of slandering a good person if I follow that thinking which is based on ignorance (and be horrified about it). I should also know that Psychopaths use exactly such "knowledge" (which is based on ignorance) to defame/slander good people and feel cautious to never ever further/fuel such slander in my ignorance.

2: I should ask myself questions like: How is my reaction informed/created? Is it based on hear say and superficial understanding of things and therefore largely based on, to put it bluntly, ignorance? Is it based on prejudices, presumptions and assumptions? Do I actually know anything about a person or their history on which my reaction is based? If my reaction is based on assumptions, what right do I have to basically voice "my opinion", or worse, slander that person with that very ill-informed "opinion" publically?

3: Is my reaction based on the presumption that the person in questions "must be bad" just because he or she is in such a position of power? What type of faulty and presumptuous reasoning is that?

Now imagine on the other hand a person who has actually done the painstaking research of trying to understand the person in question and history in general (Laura in this case), seeing another person coming in and slandering a person (the Queen in this case). How would you react in that position?

So, Laura KNOWS the Queen as a good and sensible person within the parameters of her knowledge and experience, BASED ON THAT INTENSIVE RESEARCH, and seeing a person coming in, declaring how bad the Queen is (based on ignorance). And on top of that this is done on the day the husband of the Queen has died after being married for over 73 years! So Laura rightly and justifiable feels outraged and frankly furious about the audacity to drag that poor woman through the mud (and on top of that on such a day) on the basis of such ignorance!
 
There is a reason that Elizabeth did not just step down and walk away: duty. Here is a speech she made on her 21st birthday, and below is a transcript:


Note in the transcript of her words, what I have highlighted at the end. This was her watchword all her life.
Well, she can say a 10 000 sweet words or even more, just like Joe Biden, Barrack Obama or anyone else but that does not make them a STO person or good one (according to the common perceptions of the good). Her declaration or promise does not mean she is tied up with unbreakable chains until her death. And in 1947 she was not still the Queen. She became the Queen in 1952.

Is there any possibility that she was speaking sweet words like many politicians before and after, already having picture of herself in her head with crown on her head with all nice things that come with that ? Maybe.

However she was beautiful when she was young with nice voice. It may be nice to imagine her as good/STO.

Also for the next dozens of years South Africa will be in system of Apartheid.
 

Charade

Jedi Master
In light of the emotions coming up, I think it is important to ask if you've ever read the following from Gurdjieff's Paris Groups (1944), where he interrupts a questioner using some plain-speaking vulgar language:



So, a student asks about a terrible interior emptiness... and Gurdjieff, ostensibly a spiritual master, responds by saying "you are shit." What to make of this exchange? Is Gurdjieff just being rude, impatient, negative? Did his spirituality somehow slip? That's one way of looking at it. Or is he producing a shock in the questioner that can be made use of to detonate another pillar in the false personality? Perhaps it was only this shock that could produce the necessary friction required to start the flame, and begin the process of transformation. Maybe his harsh words were the only thing that were of benefit to this person's soul.

I'm also thinking about all the times that Castaneda was straight up laughed at by Don Juan. It's great to read about and consider in the abstract - the harsh teacher and infuriated student dynamic. But when it happens in our own life, and our own precious self-importance beings to squirm and wail and fight for its territory, somehow it's not so great anymore.

The automatic 'nice, normal, polite' way of interacting ensures that no one ever learns, and we all continue to walk around in a civilized hypnosis. It's a fake way of being. In my life, the people who have been most painful have been my greatest teachers. I initially interpreted their words or behaviours towards me as a personal insult. It felt like a wound, and I turned myself into a victim. Only after some time and reflection have I been able to see that I owed them some thanks. Even if I continued to disagree with their characterization of me, or the situation at hand, the pain offered me a chance to learn something, and another chance to make a conscious choice rather than just react mechanically. This is what it means to learn to disagree, with maturity.

It's been shown that when we face information that runs counter to our beliefs, this registers in the pain region of the brain. So when our beliefs are challenged, it literally hurts. The normal tendency is to double-down into the belief. So one way of looking at it is that pain is information. It's telling you something about yourself. It's telling you something about the other person, too, but my focus these days is inwards. I question my characterizations of others because I am never sure if I am seeing them clearly, or if I am simply seeing what I want to see. This kind of looking takes time and practice, patience. It's more like understanding that each feeling that shows up is a hypothesis in itself, rather than a foregone conclusion, something that is just and good and right.

So the pain is information, sort of like the study material for my current learning cycle. And I'd say that some of the hardest beliefs to confront is my beliefs about myself - that I'm somehow not ignorant, not arrogant. Ironically, self-importance demands that I understand myself to be humble and smart and good. That's how we rewards ourselves, neurologically. We stay away from the pain of looking at ourselves through the eyes of another. I was reflecting the other day that The Work involves consciously laying down neural pathways that associate the reward centre with questioning ourselves and our beliefs, with going willing into the pain of the belief centre, rather than rewarding ourselves in withholding from it. The courage of this manoeuvre is somehow linked to clearer seeing. Perhaps even Seeing.

As such, any chance to question our long-held beliefs is perhaps the greatest gift we can give each other. Every assumption and lie and belief we can remove from our field is making more space for Truth. Even if that truth is simply, "I don't know for sure."

For a long time, I was taught that Queen of England eats babies. So I appreciate this thread - I had a piece of questionable information that had plunked down in my field for a long time. Now I can look at it and try to understand if it is as useful as I thought. Either way, some more space for Truth is being cleared.
Very well said IMO. There are some gems of understanding. Thank you.
 

Charade

Jedi Master
This is not about whether the queen is evil or not. None of us could possibly know that for certain. That is why I believe the commenter was so taken aback. We can only speculate because we are not all knowing. I have no idea what the truth is in that regard, but I would NEVER imply that someone who has a different opinion is ignorant. I would just say maybe, maybe not but who are we to judge? If we can't have differing opinions on one of the only forums on the internet that is supposed to allow free thought, that is really sad.
This has made me realize that even having direct access to a higher intelligence does not necessarily a kind person make. Even when I disagree with someone I try to always consider how my words will impact them and choose them carefully with love. But anyway...to each their own for sure! All there is are lessons and I certainly learned a monumental one today in this forum!
Not sad if one is willing to expand one’s point of view about their opinions. This has turned into a much more interesting and instructive exchange of ideas than simply Prince Phillip died at age 99 and the Queen grieves for him and are they evil people. Feeling attachment and defending a thought that seems like it is a part of your ego, you then take criticism personally. It is a trap that we easily fall into everyday. How freeing if we know how to not take it as a personal affront or attack. The shock of sharp words can act like a surgeon’s scalpel and cut out inferior or incorrect or “cancerous” thinking if we are open to it. Maybe we aren’t aware of our mistakes or wrong ideas without a painful interaction. Sulk and feel sorry or learn a respect that allows new thinking and ideas to replace and improve the old ones. Why be defined by a limiting opinion? There is a lightness of heart to be gained by not being so invested in what may be inferior ways of relating.
 

Laura

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Well, she can say a 10 000 sweet words or even more, just like Joe Biden, Barrack Obama or anyone else but that does not make them a STO person or good one (according to the common perceptions of the good). Her declaration or promise does not mean she is tied up with unbreakable chains until her death. And in 1947 she was not still the Queen. She became the Queen in 1952.

Is there any possibility that she was speaking sweet words like many politicians before and after, already having picture of herself in her head with crown on her head with all nice things that come with that ? Maybe.

However she was beautiful when she was young with nice voice. It may be nice to imagine her as good/STO.

Also for the next dozens of years South Africa will be in system of Apartheid.

Your remarks also reveal your appalling lack of knowledge and insight.

This is beginning to look like a sort of litmus test topic: one that reveals a very great deal indeed.
 
Your remarks also reveal your appalling lack of knowledge and insight.

This is beginning to look like a sort of litmus test topic: one that reveals a very great deal indeed.
We are part of everything that exists, we all learn I guess and some people have more or less knowledge. Help me, explain to me if you want and I am thankful to you. I am not ashamed for my lack of knowledge in certain areas. But I have wish to learn.
 
Your remarks also reveal your appalling lack of knowledge and insight.

This is beginning to look like a sort of litmus test topic: one that reveals a very great deal indeed.
But what is funny is that you quoted my post Laura while it is still not approved. And please can you remove that obstacle and give me a chance to post without waiting for approval every time.
 
Also I was reading certain things about royal family, some people here seems to have different opinions, I am not sure what exactly is the truth, I did not spend time with the queen personally to see what she really does. So I do not want to put labels on her or to insult her or members of the royal family. Also, yes I maybe and probably have lack of knowledge if I compare myself to you Laura, in certain areas of course. But again I want to learn and I want to stay humble and look on the the things from bird perspective so to say.
 

Nachtweide

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It seems that anyone would offer sympathy, empathy, condolences to anyone in that situation.

I believe no discussion is in vain and thus again a lesson for one's own consciousness. Personally, the mirror was held up to me and I recognized a personal weakness. Of course, I feel sympathy for a person who has suffered a loss. Just as I feel for all people who share the same fate. However, since I have no information about who these people actually are in real life, it is not possible for me to comment further. The former WWF president Prince Philip shared a long time ago that he wanted to be reborn as a deadly virus "to solve the problem of overpopulation." I found this statement very inhuman. And even if it was presented as fun - somewhere there is also a hidden mindset of one's own. Also the behavior of the royal family when Diana died leaves very bad memories in me. I really adored Diana and was rather shocked by the royal attitude. The event had devastating consequences for the reputation of the royal family, as its members were subjected to massive criticism because of their perceived callous composure. This behavior was never forgotten for me, I can forgive but not forget. But as I said - as a person who has lost someone, she has my sympathy and empathy.
 

Ant22

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But what is funny is that you quoted my post Laura while it is still not approved. And please can you remove that obstacle and give me a chance to post without waiting for approval every time.
You were placed on moderation for a reason and when you've proven that you've improved and this reason isn't applicable to you anymore I'm sure mods and admins will remove you from moderation. You see it as an obstacle. We see it as an opportunity to help you improve your behaviour without disrupting forum conversations.
 
You were placed on moderation for a reason and when you've proven that you've improved and this reason isn't applicable to you anymore I'm sure mods and admins will remove you from moderation. You see it as an obstacle. We see it as an opportunity to help you improve your behaviour without disrupting forum conversations.
It is obstacle because sometimes when I want to involve myself into conversation I need to wait sometimes for a days or even few days to get my post approved. And obviously if there are many people involved in the topic there could be dozens of messages in front of my post. How do you see it as an opportunity to help me improve my behavior without disrupting forum conversations if you did not tell me where I made a mistake ? Analogy would maybe be hitting the dog because he is defecating in the home while you are not taking him out of the home to do it somewhere else.
 
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