Bholanath
Jedi
Greetings. I was recently on another thread pertaining to this subject, and was referred to this thread by Anart, so I hope no one minds if I share some things.
I've been actively involved in traditional performance and ritual art of North India for more than 35 years. I hitchhiked there when I was 22, was initiated progressively over the years by many selfless and generous teachers (I was 1st American to be initiated in this particular old musical art form). I do this work professionally full time, and I've never joined or been brainwashed by any cult.
I have also spent quality time in Indian Country, especially Hopiland, because for most of my life it felt wierd having been born in north america and feeling no roots connection to this continent and the past, and living in Indian Country resolved that problem for me.
Both the two kinds of "Indian" cultures (east & west) are saturated with "ritual", obviously. Every action has ritual connotations and contexts. It is the "way of life", but it doesn't merely produce 4dSTS-drained automatons. It's a very complex situation.
It's very difficult for the western mind to have an overview, so difficult in fact that it's probably better for young westerners to just stay clear of "ritual" for the most part, especially newly invented occult new-age systems and previously extinct "resurrected" "ancient practices".
Today in all indigenous and traditional cultures there is heavy black magic goin on; it's not talked about all that much, but even the kids know. A lot has to do with the degeneration of parts of the cultures, loss of esoteric understanding of the meanings of the ritual forms, corrupt priesthoods, superstition, colonialism, materialism, you name it.
However: at one level, all living is ritual. Gathering with friends, breaking bread together. Holding a vigil. Hearing a concert. Process of artistic collaboration and creation. My take is that there is not just one level of ritual, and that there is ritual that is intimately connected to cultural survival, plus it's possible that PTB wants us to be PARANOID of the entire concept so as to further the erasing of indigenous knowledge of our planet's environment, which we may all need to survive/prosper.
Two short anecdotes, one about self-created ritual, and one about "curses":
In India 30 some years ago I was trying to discover the secret of a yantra-construction, working at it for months, researching every available tantra text, etc. After I finally dreamed the solution, I looked at many of the "yantra-use-manuals", but since I wasn't initiated in this area, none of it felt right. At that point in my life I also wanted to die. The yantra was for a particular major Indian goddess. I ingested one enthogenic substance, spent an undetermined amount of time merely using the yantra as a focussing and concentration-device, and what occurred was a full appearance of this Goddess enacting the entire mythic narrative in her "scriptures". I had never heard of these stories or texts. Four years ago (26 years later) I went to a "reading" of these stories, and I knew ALL of them (from the Devi Bhagavatam)! I also knew them on a deeper level than the vedantist reader. One question has always been whether this "information" exists in the LAND or the "collective-awareness" somehow (and I tapped into it), or if it has to do with my own "memory" or past life? I've no investment in either answer.
On the Hopi "rez" in '82 I had spent months just being "social" with a family, not asking any prying questions. One night they concluded I was "ok" (not going to write a book or make a movie) and opened up and laid a lot of history, mythology, symbolism, and geography on me. I "got" how all N. America is a detailed sacred landscape to them (similar to Australians) among other revelations. Previous to that I had spent time at a traditional native "resistance camp" helping the grandmothers. The next day, down in the "city" at a hotel-conference center was a presentation by a nuclear corporation - with charts and slides, a big PR campaign to assure the pubic of the "safety" of drilling for uranium 2 miles from the Grand Canyon!...Right. Mostly white audience, a few Natives. I was furious and disgusted. I went to the men's room and was suddenly standing face to face with the CEO of the nuclear corp.!! He said something like "it's good that people of opposite points of view can 'come together' and discuss our differences, blah blah..." Words just flew out of my mouth, something about "you paid drunken Indians to sign over permission to drill, and they have no authority; you're desacrating/poisoning, etc etc..." (these guys were from "Karen Silkwood" company!). Didn't matter what words came, it was just spontaneous pure emotion. I had no thought of "cursing". But I wouldn't doubt that some of the Natives had those thoughts. The upshot is: two days later I read in the paper that the CEO dude died of a heart attack! I don't know if it even had anything at all to do with me, but it was pretty shocking, and I knew how much energy I had flamed on the guy...
Anyway, what I had written in another thread on my personal experience with "ritual forms and creative improvisation" I pasted below:
Hoping all these threads lead to clarity and knowledge and a lessening of fear. People on this forum are some of the sharpest I've run across...no insult intended.
I've been actively involved in traditional performance and ritual art of North India for more than 35 years. I hitchhiked there when I was 22, was initiated progressively over the years by many selfless and generous teachers (I was 1st American to be initiated in this particular old musical art form). I do this work professionally full time, and I've never joined or been brainwashed by any cult.
I have also spent quality time in Indian Country, especially Hopiland, because for most of my life it felt wierd having been born in north america and feeling no roots connection to this continent and the past, and living in Indian Country resolved that problem for me.
Both the two kinds of "Indian" cultures (east & west) are saturated with "ritual", obviously. Every action has ritual connotations and contexts. It is the "way of life", but it doesn't merely produce 4dSTS-drained automatons. It's a very complex situation.
It's very difficult for the western mind to have an overview, so difficult in fact that it's probably better for young westerners to just stay clear of "ritual" for the most part, especially newly invented occult new-age systems and previously extinct "resurrected" "ancient practices".
Today in all indigenous and traditional cultures there is heavy black magic goin on; it's not talked about all that much, but even the kids know. A lot has to do with the degeneration of parts of the cultures, loss of esoteric understanding of the meanings of the ritual forms, corrupt priesthoods, superstition, colonialism, materialism, you name it.
However: at one level, all living is ritual. Gathering with friends, breaking bread together. Holding a vigil. Hearing a concert. Process of artistic collaboration and creation. My take is that there is not just one level of ritual, and that there is ritual that is intimately connected to cultural survival, plus it's possible that PTB wants us to be PARANOID of the entire concept so as to further the erasing of indigenous knowledge of our planet's environment, which we may all need to survive/prosper.
Two short anecdotes, one about self-created ritual, and one about "curses":
In India 30 some years ago I was trying to discover the secret of a yantra-construction, working at it for months, researching every available tantra text, etc. After I finally dreamed the solution, I looked at many of the "yantra-use-manuals", but since I wasn't initiated in this area, none of it felt right. At that point in my life I also wanted to die. The yantra was for a particular major Indian goddess. I ingested one enthogenic substance, spent an undetermined amount of time merely using the yantra as a focussing and concentration-device, and what occurred was a full appearance of this Goddess enacting the entire mythic narrative in her "scriptures". I had never heard of these stories or texts. Four years ago (26 years later) I went to a "reading" of these stories, and I knew ALL of them (from the Devi Bhagavatam)! I also knew them on a deeper level than the vedantist reader. One question has always been whether this "information" exists in the LAND or the "collective-awareness" somehow (and I tapped into it), or if it has to do with my own "memory" or past life? I've no investment in either answer.
On the Hopi "rez" in '82 I had spent months just being "social" with a family, not asking any prying questions. One night they concluded I was "ok" (not going to write a book or make a movie) and opened up and laid a lot of history, mythology, symbolism, and geography on me. I "got" how all N. America is a detailed sacred landscape to them (similar to Australians) among other revelations. Previous to that I had spent time at a traditional native "resistance camp" helping the grandmothers. The next day, down in the "city" at a hotel-conference center was a presentation by a nuclear corporation - with charts and slides, a big PR campaign to assure the pubic of the "safety" of drilling for uranium 2 miles from the Grand Canyon!...Right. Mostly white audience, a few Natives. I was furious and disgusted. I went to the men's room and was suddenly standing face to face with the CEO of the nuclear corp.!! He said something like "it's good that people of opposite points of view can 'come together' and discuss our differences, blah blah..." Words just flew out of my mouth, something about "you paid drunken Indians to sign over permission to drill, and they have no authority; you're desacrating/poisoning, etc etc..." (these guys were from "Karen Silkwood" company!). Didn't matter what words came, it was just spontaneous pure emotion. I had no thought of "cursing". But I wouldn't doubt that some of the Natives had those thoughts. The upshot is: two days later I read in the paper that the CEO dude died of a heart attack! I don't know if it even had anything at all to do with me, but it was pretty shocking, and I knew how much energy I had flamed on the guy...
Anyway, what I had written in another thread on my personal experience with "ritual forms and creative improvisation" I pasted below:
No doubt any kind of social or cultural interaction among humans can be a playground for STS's. True guidance and training and apprenticeship is out there regardless of one's circumstance, and is found if desired sincerely and with a constant vigilance. Learning and passing on a craft/art is invaluable for the learning process itself.
Hoping all these threads lead to clarity and knowledge and a lessening of fear. People on this forum are some of the sharpest I've run across...no insult intended.