Change within the work

Menna

The Living Force
It’s very hard to accept who you use to be or who you were!
To change you have to see yourself after you are a new self or else have you really changed?

how does one see an old self if they haven’t changed into a new self yet because they haven’t fully seen their old self?

I believe to progress you have to see enough of yourself during a transformative time your BUFFERS need to be on a cigarette break in order to see enough of your old self to solidify your new self! Leading to more of a perminent change or leading to enough momentum/energy to spark change

- My recent experience in the work and in life.
 
I think it depends on how that change comes about, sometimes this new and old self are merely separated by time and conditions or age. Sometimes a crisis precipitates the disintegration that gives you an opportunity to chose and aim at who you wish to be.

I think it also depends on how drastic of a change it is, sometimes the new self is a small change in habits, sometimes it's an essential one and this change of the old and new self is an every day choice and so it won't be like a switch with a specific point in time where one was and the other has become.

It is hard to accept oneself as one was, but it's a lot more difficult to accept oneself as one IS, I think that is a concept that has to be navigated carefully. The way I see it so far is, you should not distance yourself from your actions, and take responsibility from them because even if unconscious or programmed, immature or what have you, you made them. You should own them, so distancing one self from one's choices as "that was the old me" could be a sneaky way to avoid responsibility.

However, at the same time, one should not disregard progress when it has been made, every now and then it's healthy, I think, to make a pause and take stock of what has been accomplished and see the path behind, one of the things that is most interesting is that change does happen, and it was possible despite all the protest to the contrary, when at one point it may have seemed impossible.
 
Happiness does not depend on outer circumstances or other people as you are solely responsible for your happiness or unhappiness. You are capable of creating a happy life, first within yourself but then also, inevitably, in your outer life. Many people do not want to acknowledge this truth. It is easier to blame fate, the injustice of destiny and higher powers, or circumstances brought about by other people, than it is to blame oneself. That way one does not have to search, sometimes very deeply and with a maximum of honesty, within oneself. Each living creature has a part of God/Creator within. The only way to reach this divine part within is on the small and narrow path of self-development. The goal is perfection. The basis of this is to know yourself. Although some of us may know our weaknesses, most people ignore a good part of them, and this presents a great hurdle, even for those who have reached a certain height on this upward purification. You cannot overcome what you do not know. Each fault is nothing more or less than a chain that binds you. By the shedding of each imperfection you break a chain and thus become freer and nearer happiness. Happiness is meant for each individual, but is impossible to attain without eliminating the causes of your unhappiness, which are your faults.

For those who really fulfill themselves, even if the outside result is not immediately noticeable, and the residue, the outside manifestation of the past remains, inside there will be a deep and peaceful contentment, security, and a sense of fulfillment. If these are lacking, you are not completely on the right path, or you have not reached the liberation you are bound to experience after the initial difficulties on this path are overcome. Only you will know the answer, where you stand. If you are on the right path, however, and you have that deep feeling of contentment and fulfillment yet there are still outer problems in your life, that should not discourage you. For the outer form of the inner conflict you may be working on right now cannot be dissolved so quickly. The more you direct the inner currents into the right channels, the more the respective outside forms will change gradually but surely. Until this process is completely effected the outer problem cannot automatically dissolve. Impatience will only be a hindrance.
 
To change you have to see yourself after you are a new self or else have you really changed?
I'm not sure, from my experience. You see yourself, the behaviour, the attitude, the belief. You see something in yourself that isn't healthy and maybe the cause for some of your problems in life. Then the change starts, its a process, but first it has to he recognised and of course, the will has to be their to change. In reality its on you, you own you, your responsible for you and everything you do is on you.

I've been in positions, like others, where the only way out was to change my behaviour or attitude and realise, if I keep on this particular path it will lead to many troubles. I could see where it was going, so had to step back, correct my thinking and make some choices. So, in a sence, I saw myself, my attitude, my behaviour and worked towards making the necessary changes, by taking responsibility. Doesnt happen over night though, it takes time, will and effort.

Anyway, just my 2 sence worth.
 
You see something in yourself that isn't healthy and maybe the cause for some of your problems in life. Then the change starts, its a process, but first it has to he recognised and of course, the will has to be their to change.

You see yourself, the behaviour, the attitude, the belief. You see something in yourself that isn't healthy and maybe the cause for some of your problems in life. Then the change starts, its a process, but first it has to he recognised and of course, the will has to be their to change.​


Yes, seeing this behavior or dynamic in your life in which you play a role that leads to problems in ones life. The reflections of who you were at the start of the problem and who you are now in my experience solidifies a change as you want to be closer to the you now and cringe at the you of times past.
The problem and reflection of your role in the problem leads to this seeing and in this seeing there has to be change IMO regardless of will. For example if you have a heart attack because you like ice cream and eat a lot of it the doctor tells you this was cause of your problem how can you go back to that old ice cream habit unless you are self distructive and want a difficult life you are forced to change based on what you need to do to accomplish a future goal of living a long life.

I guess an aim or goal guides the current and future you. When you stray farther from the aim it’s important to examine the source of what is leading to this stray and your role in it (seeing past self) in knowing your role your behaviors in past it should do something to your current self to make who you are now “stronger” in totality as a being and in knowledge. This reflection about the aim and the acculmination of where past behaviors lead to you now should solidify the current future you if you can see the aim and what lead you astray. What do you have to shed to make your trip easier
 
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You see yourself, the behaviour, the attitude, the belief. You see something in yourself that isn't healthy and maybe the cause for some of your problems in life. Then the change starts, its a process, but first it has to he recognised and of course, the will has to be their to change.​


Yes, seeing this behavior or dynamic in your life in which you play a role that leads to problems in ones life. The reflections of who you were at the start of the problem and who you are now in my experience solidifies a change as you want to be closer to the you now and cringe at the you of times past.
The problem and reflection of your role in the problem leads to this seeing and in this seeing there has to be change IMO regardless of will. For example if you have a heart attack because you like ice cream and eat a lot of it the doctor tells you this was cause of your problem how can you go back to that old ice cream habit unless you are self distructive and want a difficult life you are forced to change based on what you need to do to accomplish a future goal of living a long life.

I guess an aim or goal guides the current and future you. When you stray farther from the aim it’s important to examine the source of what is leading to this stray and your role in it (seeing past self) in knowing your role your behaviors in past it should do something to your current self to make who you are now “stronger” in totality as a being and in knowledge. This reflection about the aim and the acculmination of where past behaviors lead to you now should solidify the current future you if you can see the aim and what lead you astray. What do you have to shed to make your trip easier
You need to be patience with yourself and others as we are after all work in progress. The more perception you have, the more you learn to perceive more. From an angle or moment they can be understood as separate but they are one within another (like matryoshka/russian doll). Everything in itself moves and everything is interconnected, affecting each other all the time that is why high densities/higher self interfere with low ones and vice versa. Because even the concept of low densities and high densities is only a limited way of understanding and explaining things. It is only people’s perception that changes and what determines the density that they will perceive, understand and therefore live.

Evolution of soul is a constant increase of mental power to process the data. It is what you learn, it is what you are, the more you know the more you are, the more you understand. This is how you grow, how you change density. That is why those who say that they are waiting for 4D to come to them, as if it was about to fall from the sky and suddenly all their problems disappear, they have no idea how everything works. The work is something personal. People must be the change (mindset) They must BE, not wait for it to happen to them.
 
You need to be patience with yourself and others as we are after all work in progress. The more perception you have, the more you learn to perceive more. From an angle or moment they can be understood as separate but they are one within another (like matryoshka/russian doll). Everything in itself moves and everything is interconnected, affecting each other all the time that is why high densities/higher self interfere with low ones and vice versa. Because even the concept of low densities and high densities is only a limited way of understanding and explaining things. It is only people’s perception that changes and what determines the density that they will perceive, understand and therefore live.

Evolution of soul is a constant increase of mental power to process the data. It is what you learn, it is what you are, the more you know the more you are, the more you understand. This is how you grow, how you change density. That is why those who say that they are waiting for 4D to come to them, as if it was about to fall from the sky and suddenly all their problems disappear, they have no idea how everything works. The work is something personal. People must be the change (mindset) They must BE, not wait for it to happen to them.
The lessons arent patient. The harder the lesson the more upset I am that I allowed it to happen. After all the lesson tells...

I agree that everything is interconnected within oneself or as you say one within another, however like a dimmer swich on a light certain aspects of the interconnectedness can be turned down while others aspects can be turned up. As you can have an aspect and chose not to use it IF you are aware of it or you can choose to dim a certain personality trait that is self defeating and have others come to the front of the line. Keeping in mind that every situation is different.
 
The lessons arent patient. The harder the lesson the more upset I am that I allowed it to happen. After all the lesson tells...

Yes, same for me.. So many times I'm thinking "WHY...why did I act that way?", or even worse, "why did I act that way AGAIN?". But it must be a good thing, because at least you're seeing the lesson, and eventually learning it.. I think patience with yourself comes into it because you can't go back and change your past actions and fix that upset feeling, you can only go onwards and use what you learnt, next time it happens..
 
Yes, same for me.. So many times I'm thinking "WHY...why did I act that way?", or even worse, "why did I act that way AGAIN?". But it must be a good thing, because at least you're seeing the lesson, and eventually learning it.. I think patience with yourself comes into it because you can't go back and change your past actions and fix that upset feeling, you can only go onwards and use what you learnt, next time it happens..
Sure, yes patience is need so vision is not clouded. I started this thread to let people know that there was a brief moment upon reflection of where and why a lesson originated and in seeing who I was or what program was running strong at that time solidified what I know now and who I need to be to accomplish my aim. So I surmise it’s important to have a seeing moment of your past self with your current self to show your current self what you don’t want to go back to
 
Menna seemed to understand the issue by himself.
Most people find life incomprehensible as they cannot recognize its meaning and purpose because they see only through their eyes. Therefore everything seems meaningless; their sorrows, their trials, their loneliness. But when you understand that this life is one of many learning periods, one link in a long chain, you will at first sense and later comprehend more and more fully the connections. Then your goal will no longer be immediate happiness through the fulfillment of every single wish in this existence. You will instead direct your vision toward the whole. Thus you can bear the deprivations of this life. And thus you can pass the tests and fulfill the conditions necessary to enter a higher state of existence. An earthly problem is actually the expression of a specific spiritual problem.

We often see that people know this or that, but they still do not perceive the connecting links within themselves. They still look for knowledge somewhere outside of themselves which in itself is good, but not enough. There must be a continuous balancing. The acquired knowledge must always be applied on a personal level, digested and evaluated within, so that harmony is established. To achieve true progress, you have to grow from both sides. New outer knowledge has to be acquired when the old has been integrated and assimilated within. Knowledge must never remain theoretical. It must be put into practice and take root in your personal life to achieve harmony in your progress, real fulfillment, and thus actual progress.

Example: You think that there is nothing worse than pain during a lesson. Defensive reaction is so imbedded in you, and has become so much second nature, that most of the time you are unaware that you are on the defensive. Anger in a sense is a lie. The original feeling is often one of hurt. If you owned up to the original feeling, you would not need to be angry. In pride, due to inferiority, you feel humiliated when you are hurt because you give someone else the power to hurt you. Therefore, you substitute anger for the original pain. Anger seems less shameful, setting you above the other person, rather than feeling your vulnerability which seems an inferior place. Anger lifts you above the true position you find yourself in that of being hurt. In pride, you lie about your real feeling. Thus, anger and pride are connected. The lie is one of self-deception and therefore of self-alienation. It is displacement. Thus, the lie causes negative effects, while owning up to your feelings does not. Hurt, free from anger, cannot negatively affect others. If the primary emotion/hurt is no longer conscious, or if it is intermingled with the secondary emotion of anger, it turns destructive. Whether the anger manifests in deeds or words, or whether it is merely an emanation, makes no difference. When you admit that you feel hurt, you do not cut off the bridge to the other person; in anger, you do. Because in anger, when it is a secondary reaction, you no longer know what you truly feel. You are in error about yourself and therefore you cannot possibly perceive and understand the other person. Whether you call it resentment or hostility, anger or hate, makes no difference; they are all the same. Many other destructive emotions, such as jealousy, envy, or lust, also contain anger.

Whenever you are on the defensive, your primary aim cannot be truth. When it comes to real dangers, the real danger is the truth of the moment, but when it comes to unreal dangers, the truth lies somewhere else. If you run away from truth, and therefore from yourself and from life, the result must be pretense and self-deception, self-alienation and isolation. This message is approved by Red the angry bird.
 
I think it depends on how that change comes about, sometimes this new and old self are merely separated by time and conditions or age. Sometimes a crisis precipitates the disintegration that gives you an opportunity to chose and aim at who you wish to be.

I think it also depends on how drastic of a change it is, sometimes the new self is a small change in habits, sometimes it's an essential one and this change of the old and new self is an every day choice and so it won't be like a switch with a specific point in time where one was and the other has become.

It is hard to accept oneself as one was, but it's a lot more difficult to accept oneself as one IS, I think that is a concept that has to be navigated carefully. The way I see it so far is, you should not distance yourself from your actions, and take responsibility from them because even if unconscious or programmed, immature or what have you, you made them. You should own them, so distancing one self from one's choices as "that was the old me" could be a sneaky way to avoid responsibility.

However, at the same time, one should not disregard progress when it has been made, every now and then it's healthy, I think, to make a pause and take stock of what has been accomplished and see the path behind, one of the things that is most interesting is that change does happen, and it was possible despite all the protest to the contrary, when at one point it may have seemed impossible.
It’s very hard to accept who you use to be or who you were!
To change you have to see yourself after you are a new self or else have you really changed?

how does one see an old self if they haven’t changed into a new self yet because they haven’t fully seen their old self?

I believe to progress you have to see enough of yourself during a transformative time your BUFFERS need to be on a cigarette break in order to see enough of your old self to solidify your new self! Leading to more of a perminent change or leading to enough momentum/energy to spark change

- My recent experience in the work and in life.

Looking over some notes from "Gnosis I", these quotes seem to apply:

The absolute necessity recurs here that someone who searches for the Way must move on to re-assess the moral values of his life; to a re-evaluation of his situation within his surroundings; a deeper examination of his ties and relations with those around him.

Romance project came to mind there. As we see ourselves in others, empathize, and learn from them (whether characters in a novel or real people we have interacted with), we begin to change. As we change, our values change. Perhaps then we may start really noticing how a new self is forming by comparison. I think it is necessary to see the old self, or at least remember the old self, to see the change(s) taking place. It's a process, ongoing. The more pieces that are collected, the clearer the picture becomes.

In serious and complicated cases, as well as in simpler cases, he will return time and time again to his problems, which he will view each time under new and more objective illumination, and in consequence in a more disinterested manner. The day will come when, having ceased to dramatize the facts and justify himself, each problem will appear to him as it is, unhidden and unembellished. It is at this moment that the objective and just solution will appear possible and desirable to him, even though it involves some painful process....because in this solution he will have found the road to the Truth which sets him free.

While playing his role in life in this way, man will sometimes find playing this role so attractive that he enter into confluence with it anew, again as before mistaking the scene for real life. These will be falls. These falls, these returns to the mirage, are practically inevitable, and will repeat themselves for a long time, at intervals that are sometimes closer, sometimes further apart. They must not frighten him, and even less must they obsess him. Returning to himself after having constated his fall, man must simply resume his role, his new attitude and, as if nothing reprehensible had happened, must without slackening continue this invisible struggle which will lead him to the Way.

I am by no means out of the woods with this, and expect to make mistakes. How else would I learn? I find the mistakes to be valuable, as long as something was learned. Looking back on it later if no lesson was learned, value can still be found with added knowledge that wasn't available at the time the mistake occurred. I find it very useful to compare an older version of myself with the person I am today, because that is how I find the progress/changes that have occurred. It is so very gradual at times! The comparison helps tremendously to find the next step, or next way to improve on an aim.


Quotes from Nicholl:
Never believe in your negative states and their memories because they are always wrong, because they are always one-sided.
We can only learn to walk by falling.
But one of the most important ways of altering memory is by canceling debts through seeing the unpleasant things we attribute to others as also existing in ourselves and this is one of the great uses of self observation.

Perhaps taking responsibility is a better term, as you stated, than "altering memory", and helps to cancel debts from the past. It is balancing to see the unpleasant in oneself as in others, at least this works for me when I find myself irritated by some action someone has taken or something they have said. That can be another way of seeing the change from "old self" to "new self". Aren't we always changing with each new experience? There isn't a definite end to the learning, as the C's say the universe is a school, all there is lessons.

Ouspensky "The Fourth Way"
Q. I am constantly up against my past. The roots are far back. A. Quite right. Only there is no direct method; we have to begin with today, we cannot change yesterday. Try to change today and this may produce a certain change tomorrow. This is everybody's state, a condition in which we have to start. But it is not an obstacle that cannot be overcome.

Each day presents a new opportunity to do something better.
 
Perhaps taking responsibility is a better term, as you stated, than "altering memory", and helps to cancel debts from the past. It is balancing to see the unpleasant in oneself as in others, at least this works for me when I find myself irritated by some action someone has taken or something they have said. That can be another way of seeing the change from "old self" to "new self". Aren't we always changing with each new experience? There isn't a definite end to the learning, as the C's say the universe is a school, all there is lessons.
This is very well said in my opinion, I think it's useful sometimes to take a look back at these old selves and see them as such, A person that I used to be, and take some endearment from this realization, but never forget that such person was indeed someone that one used to be, and sometimes the impact of having been such a person are or were very real to ourselves and to others.

And one denies that at one's perilI believe. And it takes effort, because we're wired to avoid painful realizations and to justify every single one of our acts as though they were choices made with a purpose and on the right path, and I do believe that the way forward is to become responsible for that person and its acts.

And this is when this idea of making amends is truly useful, one makes amends to those who one has hurt or damaged, but sometimes one can't and even if it's possible, the best and most effective way to not let mistakes go to waste is to humbly make amends with our behavior to the universe at large.
 
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