Can External Reality Be Changed By Saying 'No"?

[webglider]

Today I was with my spiritual Teacher, and someone I had never met before. We were talking about gold, and I had mentioned that during a national emergency The Office Of Homeland Security can confiscate whatever it wishes from safety deposit boxes.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=9995

My Teacher, in her response to that comment, mentioned the PTB

The other woman asked, "What is the PTB"?

When told that PTB means The Powers That Be, she asked, "What is that?"

I began to try to provide her with a scaffold on which to build an organized understanding of the causes behind the Iraq War, the subprime mortgage crisis, the effects of "Free Trade", when I noticed that her face had suddenly become suffused with fear, her shoulders had slumped, and her breathing had suddenly risen to up in her chest. She had already stood up to leave before this exchange took place, but as I spoke, she began to move away from the table.

"I don't think it's good to dwell on these things," she said. "I believe that if you think of these things, you attract them to you. I believe that you attract what you think about," she said. "I only want to think positive thoughts. I don't want to hear this." She gave me a baleful look, and rushed out the door.

After a pause, I said to my Teacher, "Well, she did ask."

"Yes, she did, she did ask." My Teacher replied.

We were silent for awhile. I don't know what my Teacher was thinking, but I was wondering what reaction I would have elicited if I had mentioned the Oort Cloud, STS, and hyperdimensional reality. After a few uncomfortable moments of this, I broke the silence.

"Okay. I have a question for you," I said. "Your teachings stress the need for thinking positively, and yet you know all about the PTB and the world situation and you're still optimistic and positive.

"People forget," she answered, "That they have the power to say 'NO'. If enough people
say NO, and really mean it, the combined energy that's created can change the world."

My Teacher has made it a point to make me aware of when I use phrases such as "I am afraid that," "I don't think that I can .... , "I'm worried about..." etc.

She's trying to shift my energy to a more positive vibration.

I remember somewhere the C's saying something that if each person knew, really knew how much power was locked inside of him/her, the world could be changed.

I don't know what the effect of saying "NO" from the depths of my being would produce, but what have I got to lose?

I'm going to keep reading, researching and networking. But instead of manifesting negative reactionsto each negative report I read, I'm going to aim say "NO" and see where it leads me.

 

[Meg]

I'm going to keep reading, researching and networking. But instead of manifesting negative reactionsto each negative report I read, I'm going to aim say "NO" and see where it leads me.

Just to clarify, you are going to say NO to the negative reaction within yourself? Or are you going to say NO to the idea of, for example, the people living in tent cities in Los Angeles, California?

 

[Renaissance]

hi webglider, just curious, why do you have a spiritual teacher and do you put faith in what she teaches you? Do you think it's the same as learning?

There's a lot of material on the cass site and in the forum about "YCYOR" or 'you create your own reality' and if you haven't researched it, you'll probably want to. As far as I see it, working to see things objectively is 'thinking positive' and denying the word as it exists is 'negative thinking'. There's also the positive use of negative emotions that you can read about here and here. The woman who rushed out the door probably has deeper problems than considering the influences behind the war or the economic collapse as 'negative things not to dwell on'. It's been my experience that many of those attracted to YCYOR, the Secret and such other things have some personal situation they'd rather not deal with.

 

[webglider]

hi webglider, just curious, why do you have a spiritual teacher and do you put faith in what she teaches you? Do you think it's the same as learning?

There's a lot of material on the cass site and in the forum about "YCYOR" or 'you create your own reality' and if you haven't researched it, you'll probably want to. As far as I see it, working to see things objectively is 'thinking positive' and denying the word as it exists is 'negative thinking'. There's also the positive use of negative emotions that you can read about here and here. The woman who rushed out the door probably has deeper problems than considering the influences behind the war or the economic collapse as 'negative things not to dwell on'. It's been my experience that many of those attracted to YCYOR, the Secret and such other things have some personal situation they'd rather not deal with.

The woman I call my Spiritual Teacher is someone I've known for over 20 years. She charges no money, she has no website, she sells no products. I don't accept everything she says; and I couldn't trust her if she was in denial about the events that are happening in the world right now.

I was once a whistleblower in a very public way because I saw a situation that was so outrageous and hurt so many people that I had to say no to it.

I did not know when I began that I was dealing with psychopaths embedded in a psychopathic system, and so I was in for quite an education. When I found this site and read about psychopaths, it rang so true to what I had experienced that it took my breath away.

The people in the situation I am referring to recognized that something was terribly wrong, but most did nothing. The people in the system that we appealed to for help either would not believe what we were reporting, or were part of the pornology embedded in the highest levels of power. Some colleagues joined with me, some distanced themselves from me, and others turned against me.

Surprisingly, the press was on our side. It didn't matter. It had no effect. The press was totally ineffective.

That was another big lesson.

After about two years I had to get out of that situation. I was really fortunate that given the negative reports that were being written and put into my file, I found an employer who was aware of what was going on and took me in.

I almost lost everything. I haven't been the same since.

In the years that followed others continued. It took about ten years counting the people who began before I became involved and the ones who continued after I left to build enough pressure and public awareness that the PTB finally had to get rid of the guy. I watched a lot of people fall apart. I also watched people try to save themselves by agreeing to "spy" on their former friends.

One of my former colleagues committed suicide.

50MegZ wrote: "Just to clarify, are you going to say NO to the negative reaction within
yourself, or are you going to say NO to the idea of, for example, the idea of people living in tent cities in California?"

I have been working for decades to not give in to the negative reactions within myself; not to deny them, but not to give them power to rule me.

I also say NO to the IDEA of people living in tent cities in California. Notice that I did not say NO to the REALITY of people living in such conditions. The fact that we as a nation have ALLOWED this situation to unfold by becoming complacent and letting down our guard has resulted in the conditions that people find themselves in today whether it is living in tent cities, or watching jobs be outsourced, or sending our countrymen and women die overseas in this rotten war.

I think that change starts from the place of looking at something that is so unjust, so unfair, so wrong, and saying NO to it.

Saying No though is not enough though. This is where it gets tricky because taking action without awareness of what one is getting into, can often lead to disastrous consequences and actually work against one's aim.

After I had left, I would sometimes run into the man who would later commit suicide, and try to warn him against what he was dealing with. I tried to convince him to get out. He was sure he could handle whatever they came up with so he stayed long enough to give them time to mobilize against him, destroy his reputation and take away souce of income.

I can not describe the effect this type of mobilization against another human being can do to the psyche if one has not experienced it.

I recently wrote a post concerning the rise of the Dominionist Movement in America. Those people sure know how to say NO. They say NO to public education, and their policies are destroying our schools. They say NO to pensions, and millions have lost their pensions. They say NO to the constitution and they are shredding it as they speak. They say NO to the middle class and the middle class is disappearing in this country. They have said NO to the Enlightenment and are ushering in another dark age. They have been infiltrating all our institutions and gutting them from the inside.

Why didn't we say NO to this decades ago?

From my own experience, saying NO elicits courage. If the negative situation becomes so overwhelming that external situation seems impossible to change, one can still say NO in one's heart. The alternative, and I have experienced this first hand, is to give in to fear, and then they've won.

 

[Laura]

"Okay. I have a question for you," I said. "Your teachings stress the need for thinking positively, and yet you know all about the PTB and the world situation and you're still optimistic and positive.

"People forget," she answered, "That they have the power to say 'NO'. If enough people
say NO, and really mean it, the combined energy that's created can change the world."

A very wise person indeed.

The problem is, of course, that enough people are not going to say "no" until they have had a bellyfull of suffering. And for some, that may take many lifetimes. For others, they have already lived many lifetimes and it doesn't take much for them to "get it."

Still, I think that if an awake and aware person says "no", it may be "heavier" than a yes or no that comes from someone who is asleep, it may count for more. And that's what we must aim at: waking people up who can be awakened, who are ready, who want it, and who can then transform that energy of awareness into a significant "no" energy vis a vis lies and manipulation and sleep.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Hi Webglider,

When your teacher says that the people forget that they have the power to say NO, she's right. But, as she tries to emphasize the positive (in you, in her, etc.), when, how and to what does she say NO exactly then (I mean in concrete terms) ?

Because I really think (but that's my pov, of course) that a big resounding NO can only come from outrage. How can you be outraged if you emphasize the positive only?

Furthermore as Laura said, for some people, it can take a lifetime. And for some, it will never come at all because, like the woman who ran away in your story, some people choose to 'only think happy thoughts'. I know people like that. They are scared of everything they see as dark or negative.
Some of them even claim that they don't have a trace of badness in them, which would be so funny if these people were not therapists or so called spiritual specialists (just talking about acquaintances of mine here, not your teacher).
They have obviously never heard of 'Knowlege protects' nor about 'Owning your shadow'. I just always wonder how these people will deal with the events the C's have been talking about for the future (I mean, are they gonna roam the streets with their eyes closed?).

 

[Meg]

I also say NO to the IDEA of people living in tent cities in California. Notice that I did not say NO to the REALITY of people living in such conditions. The fact that we as a nation have ALLOWED this situation to unfold by becoming complacent and letting down our guard has resulted in the conditions that people find themselves in today whether it is living in tent cities, or watching jobs be outsourced, or sending our countrymen and women die overseas in this rotten war.

Well said and true. More people need to say NO. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[go2]

"I don't think it's good to dwell on these things," she said. "I believe that if you think of these things, you attract them to you. I believe that you attract what you think about," she said. "I only want to think positive thoughts. I don't want to hear this." She gave me a baleful look, and rushed out the door.

I have gotten this same reaction from family and friends over and over since the 2000 election as I have pointed out the pathocracy tightening its grip and boldness. Many of these people are intelligent, well educated Americans. I finally gave up mentioning
my perspective unless asked, which is rare.

I noticed that webglider mentioned gold. I understood the nature of the fiat financial system and warned friends and family, they didn't
listen and now seem resentful that I was partly aware of the predator on the move. I recall that Cassandra was regected in her community, but that she was right.

They have obviously never heard of 'Knowlege protects' nor about 'Owning your shadow'. I just always wonder how these people will deal with the events the C's have been talking about for the future (I mean, are they gonna roam the streets with their eyes closed?).

Many of these people will be looking for scapegoats and the pathocrats will point them out. Germany in the 1920s seems a
history that might give us an idea of how people react to reality
when it slaps them in the face. They either wake up or they look for someone to blame.

 

[webglider]

Hi Webglider,

When your teacher says that the people forget that they have the power to say NO, she's right. But, as she tries to emphasize the positive (in you, in her, etc.), when, how and to what does she say NO exactly then (I mean in concrete terms) ?

From my understanding, it means to have the discipline to consciously choose and anchor one's emotional response when looking clearly at and acknowledging the horror of the situation.

After viewing the situation, one begins by saying NO inside oneself.

I've learned that it is extremely important to strengthen the emotional body to prepare it for all the shocks it will receive when embarking on this type of work. Without anchoring the emotional body, the emotions begin to rule and dictate policy. Operating from a base of outrage clouds judgment. Revenge become the motivating factor, and justice is forgotten. In this way a person can ironically turn into that which he/she is struggling against.

Outrage is a good motivator. But operating from a base built on outrage clouds judgment. Revenge becomes the motivating factor, and justice is forgotten. Ouspensky writes in "In Search of The Miraculous" how, without conscious effort, everything becomes its opposite. In the section devoted to work octaves, he describes the efforts needed at each part of the scale necessary for the realization of the aim. Without this effort, once noble enterprises begin the process of devolution.

I lent out my copy of ISOTM, but I found the quote I needed from Laura from the thread "Gurdjieff And The Question Of The Soul"

It's mentioned again in an interesting context: the law of octaves. Notice how he talks about what we understand as the effects of Ponerization via pathological humans insinuating themselves into a group:

"All this and many other things can only be explained with the help of the law of octaves together with an understanding of the role and significance of 'intervals' which cause the line of the development of force constantly to change, to go in a broken line, to turn round, to become its 'own opposite' and so on.

"Such a course of things, that is, a change of direction, we can observe in everything. After a certain period of energetic activity or strong emotion or a right understanding a reaction comes, work becomes tedious and tiring; moments of fatigue and indifference enter into feeling; instead of right thinking a search for compromises begins; suppression, evasion of difficult problems. But the line continues to develop though now not in the same direction as at the beginning. Work becomes mechanical, feeling becomes weaker and weaker, descends to the level of the common events of the day; thought becomes dogmatic, literal. Everything proceeds in this way for a certain time, then again there is reaction, again a stop, again a deviation. The development of the force may continue but the work which was begun with great zeal and enthusiasm has become an obligatory and useless formality; a number of entirely foreign elements have entered into feeling—considering, vexation, irritation, hostility; thought goes round in a circle, repeating what was known before, and the way out which had been found becomes more and more lost.

"The same thing happens in all spheres of human activity. In literature, science, art, philosophy, religion, in individuals

Just from my observation of myself, I know that this process is accurately described. If the individual neglects his/her own development, the corruption of life can take root and begin the process of decay. To prevent this takes constant vigilence.


That's why I think that KNOWLEDGE includes both the understanding of functioning of external objective reality of the outside world and the objective reality of the functioning of the human machine especially that of the emotional body. To allow negative emotions to infest the machine is analogous to, as Laura says, "pathological humans insinuating themselves into a group."

The PTB have recognized the power of emotion and consciously harnessed the negative emotions of the masses to realize their aims. They have elicited outrage, fear, anger, lust, despair, greed and hopelessness and reinforced them so relentlessly that the intellectual center is so burned out that all it longs for is escape and sleep. The sources provided for escape exhaust the physical body, thus further reinforcing the aims of the PTB.

I think that the NO can be elicited by outrage, but should not be anchored there. Instead I think it should be anchored in the desire to realize a positive aim which includes maintaining one's emotional equilibrium, and personal integrity.

 

[PepperFritz]

The PTB have recognized the power of emotion and consciously harnessed the negative emotions of the masses to realize their aims. They have elicited outrage, fear, anger, lust, despair, greed and hopelessness and reinforced them so relentlessly that the intellectual center is so burned out that all it longs for is escape and sleep. The sources provided for escape exhaust the physical body, thus further reinforcing the aims of the PTB.

I think that the NO can be elicited by outrage, but should not be anchored there. Instead I think it should be anchored in the desire to realize a positive aim which includes maintaining one's emotional equilibrium, and personal integrity.

You make an excellent point there, webglider. One thinks of "revolutions" throughout history that were driven by the intense anger and outrage of the "people", which, after the emotional fires burned themselves out, led only to elite power structures as oppressive as the ones "overthrown", and an exhausted and docile populace. Compare that to the very real social change achieved by someone like Martin Luther King, who, in my opinion, epitomizes positive activism anchored in "emotional equilibrium and personal integrity". Which, of course, made him far more dangerous to the PTB than, say, the Black Panthers, hence his assassination....

 

[Iconoclast]

"I don't think it's good to dwell on these things," she said. "I believe that if you think of these things, you attract them to you. I believe that you attract what you think about," she said. "I only want to think positive thoughts. I don't want to hear this." She gave me a baleful look, and rushed out the door.

i recently re-read 1984 by george orwell and it seems to me that "YCYOR" as adhered to by this woman is the PERFECT implementation of the concept of "Thoughtcrime".
if you self-censor your thoughts before they reach your consciousness you become incapable of understanding even the most basic levels of reality.

 

[Renaissance]

The problem is, of course, that enough people are not going to say "no" until they have had a bellyfull of suffering.

I think this could be said for dreaming of doing the work as well. That perhaps one feels like they haven't endured enough to reach the 'right level' so they go on seeking shocks like an addiction all the while feeding the false self. This addiction in the form of seeking also seems to build a mountain of knowledge while never using it since the 'enough' point is continually put off.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

The PTB have recognized the power of emotion and consciously harnessed the negative emotions of the masses to realize their aims. They have elicited outrage, fear, anger, lust, despair, greed and hopelessness and reinforced them so relentlessly that the intellectual center is so burned out that all it longs for is escape and sleep. The sources provided for escape exhaust the physical body, thus further reinforcing the aims of the PTB.

I see from the comments from PepperFritz and Webglider that 'outrage' was a poor choice of word on my part. In my mind, outrage was not so devastating as you both state. You are right, of course, this is what outrage means.
I think maybe a better choice would have been indignation? Or righteous anger? I meant this feeling when a situation makes every one of your many I's say NO! or STOP! but without making you perform thoughtless acts.
I guess these two concepts stems from different centers?
Outrage can be about anything, even petty things (your soccer team lost, aarrrghhh!) and is quite automatic, whereas righteous anger comes from higher centers. At least in my pov. ;)

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Meg]

After viewing the situation, one begins by saying NO inside oneself.

I did this today once I had enough "internal quibbling". It worked in so far as it brought me back to reality, so to speak. I am going to keep doing it and see how it goes

 

[Niall]

The problem is, of course, that enough people are not going to say "no" until they have had a bellyfull of suffering.

I think this could be said for dreaming of doing the work as well. That perhaps one feels like they haven't endured enough to reach the 'right level' so they go on seeking shocks like an addiction all the while feeding the false self. This addiction in the form of seeking also seems to build a mountain of knowledge while never using it since the 'enough' point is continually put off.

Shane, thank you for clarifying my thoughts and showing the humility to share this.