Books about the history of Ireland and Croatia/Slovenia

Seamus

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Does anyone know of some good books about the history of Ireland and Croatia/Slovenia? Something like Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States? I'm specifically interested in the last 500 years since Henry VIII decided to "conquer" Ireland. In the case of Croatia and Slovenia I'm most interested in the period from around 1100AD to 1918.

I am asking because I want to research my family history, at least in broad terms. My mother's family is Irish and my father's family is originally from Croatia and Slovenia. My mother's mother was born in Ireland and her father's family emigrated in the 1850s. My father's grandparents all emigrated around 1900 I think. It seems to me that I've inherited one set of programs and patterns of behavior from my parents, who inherited them from their parents and so on, and another set of programs from school and American culture. Looking back at the programs I inherited from my parents, I think it might help me to better understand them if I know more about where my ancestors come from, how they may have lived and what hardships they might have endured.

Taking Ireland for example, until I read Joe Quinn's article about British imperial policies in Ireland a few Dot Connectors ago, I still thought that the mass exoduses of the late 1800's and early 1900's were due to potato blight and nothing more. I knew that all of my older Irish relatives seemed to hate and despise the English, but I never really thought about why. So basically I know next to nothing about the history of either country except what is written in the history textbooks, which means I only know what the PTB want me to know. I'd like to change that.
 
Seamas said:
Does anyone know of some good books about the history of Ireland and Croatia/Slovenia? Something like Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States? I'm specifically interested in the last 500 years since Henry VIII decided to "conquer" Ireland. In the case of Croatia and Slovenia I'm most interested in the period from around 1100AD to 1918.

I am asking because I want to research my family history, at least in broad terms. My mother's family is Irish and my father's family is originally from Croatia and Slovenia. My mother's mother was born in Ireland and her father's family emigrated in the 1850s. My father's grandparents all emigrated around 1900 I think. It seems to me that I've inherited one set of programs and patterns of behavior from my parents, who inherited them from their parents and so on, and another set of programs from school and American culture. Looking back at the programs I inherited from my parents, I think it might help me to better understand them if I know more about where my ancestors come from, how they may have lived and what hardships they might have endured.

Taking Ireland for example, until I read Joe Quinn's article about British imperial policies in Ireland a few Dot Connectors ago, I still thought that the mass exoduses of the late 1800's and early 1900's were due to potato blight and nothing more. I knew that all of my older Irish relatives seemed to hate and despise the English, but I never really thought about why. So basically I know next to nothing about the history of either country except what is written in the history textbooks, which means I only know what the PTB want me to know. I'd like to change that.

Hi Seamas
The following are three good books on the history of Ireland which I have used in my work as a Tour Guide in Ireland for the past ten years. They'll give you a good overall idea of Irish History and are available on Amazon. Yes they are the PTB approved versions of Irish History (I haven't found anything on Ireland comparable to Zinn's book yet) but they'll still give you some good information.
It's true many people of Irish ancestry in other countries have very strong - and very justifiable - feelings towards British rule in Ireland over the centuries and it's still a sensitive issue even today. But these are not directed towards ordinary British people (unless you walk down O'Connell St. in Dublin waving a Union Jack - not a good idea! :) ) rather towards Government policy and the use of their security forces in oppressing and exploiting the Irish Nationalist community, both in the whole of Ireland up to partition in 1921 and in Northern Ireland up to the present day.
Just be aware, when reading these books, that the portrayal of Celtic Ireland is heavily influenced by the Catholic Church's account since the beginning of Christianisation in the 5th century A.D, and we know how good they are at twisting the truth. And also be aware that COINTELPRO, false flag operations etc have been, and continue to be in operation in Northern Ireland and indeed in the Republic of Ireland also. As always, cui bono?
It'll be interesting to see what goes on during the Queen of England's visit to the Republic from tomorrow, it's the first by a reigning British Monarch since the twenty six counties became 'independent' in 1921.

Anyway, those books:

The Oxford History of Ireland by R.F. Foster

Ireland: A History by Robert Kee

The Course of Irish History by T.W. Moody and F.X. Martin

If there's anything else on Ireland I can help you on I'd be happy to oblige:)

Ageeva
 
Thanks very much for your suggestions Ageeva! I don't know how long it will take me to get these books and read through them, but I'll let you know when I have questions and you can help me fill in the blanks. :)

Ageeva said:
It's true many people of Irish ancestry in other countries have very strong - and very justifiable - feelings towards British rule in Ireland over the centuries and it's still a sensitive issue even today. But these are not directed towards ordinary British people (unless you walk down O'Connell St. in Dublin waving a Union Jack - not a good idea! ) rather towards Government policy and the use of their security forces in oppressing and exploiting the Irish Nationalist community, both in the whole of Ireland up to partition in 1921 and in Northern Ireland up to the present day.

I think this was the general nature of my relatives' feelings as well. My Irish relatives are very proud of their Irish heritage, a pretty common thing among Irish Americans and something I've inherited, but I don't really know why. None of my relatives have living memories of Ireland, so there's just a vague sense of identity. My mom got Irish citizenship for my sister and me through my grandmother about 10 years ago.
 
Seamas said:
Thanks very much for your suggestions Ageeva! I don't know how long it will take me to get these books and read through them, but I'll let you know when I have questions and you can help me fill in the blanks. :)

My pleasure:)

Seamas said:
Ageeva said:
It's true many people of Irish ancestry in other countries have very strong - and very justifiable - feelings towards British rule in Ireland over the centuries and it's still a sensitive issue even today. But these are not directed towards ordinary British people (unless you walk down O'Connell St. in Dublin waving a Union Jack - not a good idea! ) rather towards Government policy and the use of their security forces in oppressing and exploiting the Irish Nationalist community, both in the whole of Ireland up to partition in 1921 and in Northern Ireland up to the present day.

I think this was the general nature of my relatives' feelings as well. My Irish relatives are very proud of their Irish heritage, a pretty common thing among Irish Americans and something I've inherited, but I don't really know why. None of my relatives have living memories of Ireland, so there's just a vague sense of identity. My mom got Irish citizenship for my sister and me through my grandmother about 10 years ago.

I've had the pleasure of guiding Irish American visitors in Ireland over the years and they are often very proud of their Irish Ancestry and delighted to have an opportunity to visit the home of their forebearers. By the way, if you've an Irish passport to go with your Irish citizenship it might be useful if things get a little rocky in the US (although I can't guarantee things will be any better here by then :) ) Enjoy your discoveries in Irish History:)


Edit=fixed quote tags
 
FWIW, a story about a 1000-year curse of the Croatian King Zvonimir.

The circumstances around his premature death in 1089 have never been properly clarified, and rumours surrounding the mystery still circulate to this day. His less than glamorous end as the ruler of Croatia saw him place a 1000-year curse on the Croatian nation. The curse made it so that for the following 1000 years, the country that he felt had betrayed his wishes wouldn’t be ruled by a native Croat as an independent kingdom.

Maybe it’s just a legend, a myth based on nothing but old wive’s tales and folk stories, but it’s ironic that Croatia faced constant anarchy, war, invasions, and takeovers by foreign empires and governments in the years that followed.

 
Does anyone know of some good books about the history of Ireland and Croatia/Slovenia? Something like Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States? I'm specifically interested in the last 500 years since Henry VIII decided to "conquer" Ireland. In the case of Croatia and Slovenia I'm most interested in the period from around 1100AD to 1918.
Well, in short, official history tells it that for the time period in question there was actually no Slovenia nor Croatia to begin with.

In 1102 AD, the region of so called Croatia was incorporated into Hungarian kingdom, where it remained until mid 16th century when, what was left of both of the regions after being conquered by Osmans Turks, was taken into Habsburg (later known as Austrian and Austrian-Hungarian) monarchy. They remained there until the fall of A-H empire after the WWI in 1918. Slovenian region was allegedly under German rule from 11th century and in Habsburg monarchy from 13th century til 1918.

Also, there are strong indications that Slavic people and 'lands', at least in the parts of the Balkans which were under A-H rule, during the slow withdrawal of the Turks in 19th century went through the process of inventing their histories and languages similar to what 'happened' to the region of now known Ukraine in the same time period. There are also hints that this process influenced Vuk Karadžić, 'educated' in Vienna, which Serbian language reform spearheaded so called Illyric or Panslavic movement in the whole Slavic Balkans, except in so much Bulgaria.

In short, your interest, if still there, in histories of Croatia and/or Slovenia, might benefit more if it's focused a bit unto particular geographic area where the ancestors came from. FWIW.
 
Also, there are strong indications that Slavic people and 'lands', at least in the parts of the Balkans which were under A-H rule, during the slow withdrawal of the Turks in 19th century went through the process of inventing their histories and languages similar to what 'happened' to the region of now known Ukraine in the same time period.
If interested to what 'happened' to Ukraine in this context, check the documentary/text posted in the thread

The border region in the West Balkans next to the Turks at that time was (also) officially designated as Military Kraina and governed by military governor, who became Croatian "ban" (sort of a prince or a duke; leader of 'newly' established Slavic aristocracy/elite) when Turks withdrew more to the East, responsible directly to A-H emperor. The real history of the region in that particular epoch can get a bit convoluted at some points, with all the screens and mirrors at play, but the gist or MO what most probably actually transpired then and there, can be rather accurately assessed/extracted from the Russian (U)Kraina story in the thread above. OSIT.
 
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