griffin said:
In "Conversations with the Crow", Gregory Douglas relates a series of phone discussions he recorded with Robert Crowley, or "The Crow", after his retirement from the clandestine services, or "dirty tricks", wing of the CIA.
[...]
That manuscript is essentially an entertaining collection of fairy tales, but it presents a hidden apologia for and denial of the CIA's involvement in the murders of JFK and RFK, respectively, poisoning the well.
How do you define 'fairy tales'? Apologia perhaps as the purpose for those conservations were to explain his point of view in that they, the CIA et al, 'needed' to kill Kennedy. They got rid of many people like Nixon who they and their associates in Israel and Taiwan felt needed to be 'removed' once he normalized relations with China. How?
"RTC: Our main man in all of this was Howard Hunt, who had wonderful ideas of his importance and, besides writing bad books, he had been very helpful in the Kennedy business in '63. He was our station chief in Mexico between August and September of that year and set up the fake 'Oswald' visit to Mexico City.
GD: Wasn't Oswald there? Getting a visa for Cuba?
RTC: No, that was bullshit...."
"GD: I'm not poking but did you hate Kennedy?
RTC: You are poking, Gregory, but no, I did not hate Kennedy. Kennedy came from a family that was as crooked as a dog's hind leg. His father was a rum-runner and a -jezebel- monger and vicious as hell. Jack wasn't so bad but he couldn't keep it in his pants and used drugs in the White House. And enough of him for the time being."
"RTC: Some things are destined to happen and all they did was prolong the final act. Jerry Ford was no threat. A wonderfully cooperative man, Jerry was. During the Warren Commission, he called up old Hoover every night with the latest confidental dirt. No, Jerry was no problem. And the peanut farmer was too self-righteous to bother with and harmless. Actually, Nixon was lucky. If the Watergate thing hadn't worked, we would have found something a little more permanent.
GD: Nixon didn't know anything about the Kennedy business, did he?
RTC: No, that was Hoover. The Colonel hated Bobby for calling him an old faggot and harassing him. And King too. He hated King because he was having an affair with a white woman and, on top of this, had gone to the Lenin school in Russia. Bobby was a quid pro quo for his brother in our eyes.
GD: It sounds like the Borgias.
RTC: Gregory, these are matters of state, not an exercise in morality. We have to do unpleasant things from time to time...."
"RTC: Yes, there's a lot of that. The Kennedy business has the myth makers working overtime. Have you read any of the fantasy books? Men with umbrellas? People hidden in the sewers? Hoover shooting at him from some bank building? The Hunt brothers potting away from a black helicopter? Well, we're responsible for a lot of that. Feed silly rumors to the babblers in the nut fringe and they stir up so much mud, you can't see the truth.
GD: Maybe it's on the bottom with Colby.
RTC: Remind me to avoid crab cakes for a few months.
GD: Mueller was telling me about Dulles.
RTC: Which one? Allen or John?
GD: Both, actually.
RTC: What did he say about Allen?
GD: Mueller knew him before he became DCI, when?
RTC: In '53.
GD: Yes.
RTC: Kennedy forced him out in '61. Kennedy did not trust us and threatened to break up the CIA. Not a wise move.
GD: No, it wasn't. And Kennedy is dead and the agency lives on.
RTC: Yes, it does. What did Mueller tell you about Allen?
GD: Oh, that he met Dulles in Switzerland during the war. Dulles had no idea who Mueller was. Heini told me Dulles was a sucker for the plant and he loaded him up with all kinds of fake information about what was going on in Germany and Dulles ate the whole horse, saddle and all.
RTC: Allen was never too bright. His brother was a dyed-in-the-wool Nazi, just like another one of our DCI's father. Prescott Bush. But Allen was not a particularly deep or thoughtful man all in all. His son got shot in the head in Korea and came back an idiot so Allan was very bad to him.
GD: Beat him up?
RTC: Worse. He ignored him. Allen was not a kind or thoughtful man. But his wife really did a number on him at the end..."
GD: You mentioned Prescott Bush. I have an original medal presentation paper giving a high Nazi decoration to him. Signed by Hitler in 1938. I'm surprised this never got out. I also have a picture of IBM's Watson with a higher decoration, sitting in opera box with Hitler. The IBM people have been trying to buy that from me for ten years.
RTC: You asking too much for it?
GD: No. I thought it might look good in a book. Was George a good DCI?
RTC: George was a sly, effeminate creature as crooked as a dog's hind leg. When he was VP, they attended a state dinner in the White House and he brought his older boy with him. That one was a chronic boozer and during an intermission, he went out and pissed in one of the downstairs halls. I understand Nancy Reagan 86'd him out of the White House. His brother is a con-man, unconvicted of ripping banks off because Daddy put on the pressure. And his wife is like something out of a Norse legend. A real dominatrix-type. You never know what goes on behind the curtains, Gregory, but I do. It's enough to shake anyone's belief in the honesty of our leaders, who hasn't worked inside the Beltway long enough. Bush was only DCI for a year and I never had any use for him. Smiled a lot and as vicious and back-stabbing as anyone I ever knew. But then so many of them are."
"RTC: Hello, Gregory. I've dug out quite a bit of material on the Kennedy business for you and once I get it collated, I'll send it on.
GD: Any surprises there?
RTC: Wait until you've read it and I would prefer not to discuss this on the telephone. There are aspects of this that should be kept very private and, let me add, I would request that you no address this in print until after I am gone."
"GD: Just one brief question about Kennedy if it's all right.
RTC: Ask me and I'll make a judgment call.
GD: Was it Oswald?
RTC: No, he was a patsy. Had nothing to do with it and that answers that question..."
"RTC: Did you know old Hoover was part black?
GD: Besides being queer?
RTC: In addition to that. But I think Hoover was more asexual than homosexual. A really vicious old man. Do you know how he kept being kicked out by succeeding Presidents? He kept files on everyone of consequence, both in business, the media and, especially, government. The real dirt as it were. And no one, not the President, the Attorney General or Congress to whom he had to go every year to get the yearly appropriations would ever dare to cross J. Edgar. Bobby Kennedy crossed him and Bobby was killed for his trouble. No, Hoover was a vicious man. We, on the other hand, use the same methodology but we are far smoother in applying it. We have a strong influence, for want of a better term, with the banking industry. We have the strongest and most effective influence with the print and television media. We have a much stronger hold on the Hill than Hoover ever had. At times, we've had iron control over the Oval Office. Hell, the NSA snoops domestically and we get it all. We have a strong in with the telephone people and we don't need warrants to listen to anybody, domestically, we want, when we want. Now that the internet is in full bloom, trust it, Gregory, that we will establish our own form of control over that. It's an invisible control and we never, ever talk about it and anyone who gets really close to the truth gets one in the back of the head from a doped-up burglar. And if something gets loose, who will publish it? Surely nor our boys in the media. A book publisher? A joke, Gregory. Never. Rather than off some snoop, it's much more subtle to marginalize them in print, imply they are either liars or nuts and make fun of them. Discredit them so no one will listen to them and then later, the car runs over them in the crosswalk. Oh, sorry about that officer, but my foot slipped off the brake. I am desolated by that. And we pay for fixing the front end of his care.
GD: Such an insight. Too much coffee, today, Robert?
RTC: No, just an old man and his memories."
"GD: More CIA assassinations?
RTC: No, actually, this has nothing to do with the CIA. We know about the subject but it isn't really in our field and we want nothing to do with it. This is about... I think we have talked about the subject before. Vanishing people, flying saucers and so on.
GD: I believe so. Do go on.
RTC: Well, you'll have the report next week, or whenever Greg gets to the local post office... I mean it runs to about a hundred or more pages. Otherwise, I could stick it into an envelope and leave it for the local route man. And there it is. Absolutely pure science fiction but in this case, or rather these cases, science facts. I may have told you about one of our top people who just vanished while walking down his driveway? Well, there is a lot more. We may have talked about the Roswell business and we can get back to that later but the most interesting item in the file is about the woman who was jaywalking in New York and was hit by some minority trying to escape from the police. Terrible impact and knocked her up onto the sidewalk. Right next to a hospital so she was rushed there but died there at once or more likely was killed by the impact. So, when they did an autopsy on her, they were lucky because they got right on to her, or whatever it was, and that was good because about two hours later, after the body cooled off, it turned to a sort of jelly. But, this is the fascinating part. It looked like a woman from the outside but once they cut into her, it wasn't a woman.
GD: It was a transvestite?
RTC: No, it wasn't human. The insides were all different. None of the staff had ever seen anything like it before so they photographed the body and took out what they hoped might be some kind of organs. Didn't do any good because, like the body, the pieces all turned to jelly in the jars. But there are the affidavits and the photographs plus the police report of the accident and the emergency room people. Not human. What it was, no one knows, not to this day. Fortunately for everyone, one of the doctors was an Air Force reserve officer and he made a call. There was a descent on the hospital and everyone was grilled and terrified. One set of the pictures was saved by accident and we got it. And next week, you can have it, if the USPS doesn't deliver it to Gambon in error. We had no idea what the whole thing was about but we talked with the Air Force people and they know all about such things. They did their Bluebook project on saucers. They do know, Gregory, but we never will."
GD: Why not?
RTC: You ask a question like that? Orson Wells program? Why the issue is national panic, that's why not. Harry Truman could see this and the Roswell business and other things were all shut up and the press fed with reams of fake sightings and they got their in-house historians to write satires on the little green men. And even now, they encourage the nut fringe to publish silly crap and engage in hair pulling contests, just to keep the public looking at other things. Panic, Gregory. Tens of thousands of people vanish each year without any trace. We got the transistor from the Roswell wreck and the Air Force says at least 5% of all flying saucer sightings are real. And the non-humans walking around. My God, can you imagine the resurrection of the Salem witch trials if the air-brained public ever got it into their fuzzy heads that there were aliens running around the streets? And I don't mean Guatemalan housemaids or Mexican gardeners either. No, royal panic. The public would demand answers and no one in authority can give them."
"GD: Yes, I did. I have cut it this way and looked it that way and try as I can, and I have a very skeptical mind, Robert, I could not explain this mass number of missing. Some hole open in the ground? Giant birds swooping down and flying off with them? They couldn't all be rotting under the Jersey Pine Barrens.
RTC: ( Laughter)
GD: I'm serious now, Robert.
RTC: Oh, I'm sure you are and I've heard all about this before. When my man vanished, we did quite a bit of research and what you say is quite true. However, Gregory, I suggest that you look into other matters and stay strictly away from this one.
GD: Why is that?
RTC: You will be banded as a nut and your many enemies will gleefully get their hands on this and really lambaste you. Just deal with other matters. If you do something on Kennedy, believe me, all the night creatures will come up from under their wet logs and bite you on the ankles. Try to stay main line and you'll do much better.
GD: I see your point but do you see mine?
RTC: Which is?
GD: Which is that huge number of people in this country, and probably in others, have just vanished.
RTC: Off the face of the earth.
GD: Exactly.
RTC: Well, maybe they have, Gregory, maybe they have. You know, aside from drawing unwelcome attention from the rabid lunatic fringe, you will get the government excited if you really push this vanishing business. Why? Because it obviously can lead to the UFO business and that is strictly off limits. It's fine for the nuts to write weird books but if someone like you, who is a serious writer and an excellent researcher, starts in on this, they will come down on you very quickly. Just stay away from this and I assure you we will all be happy."
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Maybe that's the kind of 'fairy tales' you are referring to? Otherwise, there is a lot of subjective word use on both sides and the writer does tell many stories true or not, when obtaining information, it is usually best to keep stirring the pot lest it burn, or just lump up and 'baby' don't like lumps, does she?
I don't see the fairy tales though, but anything that points a finger at those in the shadows could be considered as such.
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"GD: And Bobby?
RTC: Bobby was a nasty piece of shit who made enemies whenever he went for a walk. He was his brother's hit man, in a figurative sense, his pimp. He was the AG, put in there by Joe so Joe could get back his confiscated Farben stock and also go after the mob. Back in Prohibition, I can tell you, Joe was a partner of Capone's and Joe was stupid enough to rip Al off. Al put out a contract on Joe and Joe had to pay Al to cancel it. And from then on, Joe was out to get anyone in the Mob. Pathological shit, Joe was.
GD: My grandfather told me all about him.
RTC: Well, when Bobby got to be AG, he harassed old Hoover, trying to make him quit. Not a very good idea, but then Bobby thought he was safe. His father was very rich, his brother was President and he thought he couldn't be touched. For example, Hoover used to take a nap on his office couch every day and Bobby would bang into his office and wake him up. And worse, Bobby would tell his friends, at parties where there were many ears, that Hoover was an old faggot.
GD: Some people seem to have a death wish...[...]
[...]
RTC: Johnson was terrified of Hoover and kissed his ass on every occasion, but Bobby was running for president and it looked like he might make it. That's when Hoover talked to Sullivan and we know the rest. Just some background here....[...]"
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IMO, it's a wee bit more than "an entertaining collection of fairy tales." As for "denial"... that seems rather obvious for anyone whose read the book that he flat out says that they killed Kennedy, but yes, he does say that the brother was Hoover's thing.
