Astrology & Compatibility

Lathyrus

Padawan Learner
These're some very interesting ideas you've presented. I wouldn't've thought of Libra as placing so much emphasis on relationships, but it does fit with some of what I've read thus far.

I'd like to comment, but I feel like I have a lot of studying to do before I think I can speak much further. I'll be sure to post again once I've expanded my knowledge-base some more.
 

RflctnOfU

Jedi Council Member
bozadi said:
Trying to find possible relationships between the Law of Three (LoT) and the dualities and trinities in astrology can be interesting. Although this can also be very complicated, I think it is worth trying.

I must admit that currently I can't relate LoT to the astrological 'modality' trinities (cardinal, fixed and mutable signs of each element) in a coherent way because it seems difficult to me to find a thesis-antithesis-synthesis (TAS) type of relation among any specific modality.

Dualities might be a better place to start with. I believe that the first opposition/duality of Aries & Libra can be revealing in various ways. As it is a 'duality' rather than a 'trinity', I think it is also not easy to directly find a TAS relation in it. I remember contemplating on this duality seeking various such symbolic relations. I couldn't arrive at any concrete conclusion but some possibilities that can be checked further.

We know that the Aries and Libra duality, in one of its interpretations, is somehow closely related to the Man and Woman duality. In a general way, manhood is symbolized by Mars and womanhood by Venus. Yes, it seems that many examples of the thesis & antithesis principle can be examined over the parallelism between the Mars & Venus and Man & Woman relationships. And many speculations can also be made about possible examples of a synthesis and this might help us better understand the 'third force'.

The law of 3, as connected with our default centers per G, can be seen in the groupings of oppositions dealing with feeling center functioning, thinking center functioning, and moving center functioning --- respectively the Mars-Venus oppositions: Aries - Libra and Scorpio - Taurus, the Mercury-Jupiter oppositions: Gemini - Sagittarius and Virgo - Pisces, the Sun/Moon - Saturn oppositions: Leo - Aquarius and Cancer - Capricorn.

But, along with that, I also suggest to examine a slightly different instance of a TAS trinity in the Aries-Libra duality. Although this is also closely about relationships, this is a more general one and it might also shed some light to some possible shady parts of the above approach. Generically, any individual, either male or female, is an instance of the Aries principle. Everyone is an individual, a self. And individuality and selfhood is more related to Aries than Libra. In this specific context, the Libran principle is not any one individual but the "relationship" established between or among individuals. This is not only about human individuals but also other collective individualities such as a family, group, company, nation, etc. The Arian tendency of warring is closely related to the archetypical subject of 'conflict of interests', which is almost the most widespread issue of the entire human history.

I think that Libra is closer to the "other"/"Not-I". Of course relationship is implied in that, but I think the third force IS the relationship between I and Not-I.

As can be easily noticed, the subject is closely related to the STO-STS polarity. The C's said STO is balance and STS is imbalance. And in the astrological duality of Aries & Libra, Aries is classically associated with imbalance and Libra with balance; Aries with war, Libra with peace; Aries with fire, Libra with air, Aries with vulgarity and ignorance, Libra with mannerliness and wisdom. This is also like a comparison of a freshman and a graduate. But this approach by itself can also be misleading. And this might be likened in the yin-yang symbol to the black point in the middle of the white circle and vice versa. The concept of balance is such that sometimes it can necessitate more Arian action than Libran. You know, sometimes you really need to challenge and even fight for protecting something that must be protected rather than considering that any peace/concession is better than fighting. This also reminds me, "From fire comes light." So depending on the situation, the balance & imbalance duality can change sides within the duality of Aries & Libra just like in any other duality of signs although this might not completely invalidate the main symbolism just like in the general black and white halves of yin-yang with smaller points of opposite colors.

I don't think Aries and Libra can be analyzed in isolation from Scorpio and Taurus. Mars rules Aries and Scorpio. Aries expresses the masculine polarity of Mars, and Scorpio the feminine. Likewise, Venus rules Libra and Taurus and Libra expresses the masculine polarity of Venus, and Taurus the feminine.

I have difficult in thinking of some good examples about the issue of thesis and antithesis in our general life conditions but we know that there are plenty of them in so many different levels of our lives. There are many ideological theses and antitheses, for instance, and these involve a lot of objective and subject conflicts of interest. And in many situations, there is some truth to both sides of such oppositions. In this sense, a sufficient increase of knowledge will eventually resolve the issue and here we can easily relate gaining of knowledge to the third force. You know, people quarrel a lot on various matters, they experience many difficulties, many experiences and they gradually increase their knowledge and eventually resolve issues. And "networking", a very Libran concept, can also be a considered as a very good and essential catalyst of an intensive knowledge gaining. Libran attitude of learning to resolve issues rather than immediately easily into a vicious circle of fighting is a "liberating" attitude. And I think that, the Libran attitude/intuition is closely related to an awareness of and/or a belief in the Absolute truth, 7D.

So, I think the first astrological duality of Aries & Libra summarizes the process so effectively although I might have missed many other important points or misunderstood some of the points I've speculated on. This also applies about my interpreation of the third force. It can have many layers that need to be explored.

I think that the similar and relevant duality of Gemini & Sagittarius also sheds some complementary light on the picture, which I would like to speculate on at a suitable time for me.

Again, Gemini - Sagittarius is better studied along with Virgo - Pisces

Kris
 

bozadi

Jedi
Teragon said:
These're some very interesting ideas you've presented. I wouldn't've thought of Libra as placing so much emphasis on relationships, but it does fit with some of what I've read thus far.

I'd like to comment, but I feel like I have a lot of studying to do before I think I can speak much further. I'll be sure to post again once I've expanded my knowledge-base some more.
Sure, Teragon, I hope that the discussions here will also be of help for you. It seems you are surprised that Libra could be so much related to compatibility/relationship issues, eh? : )

RflctnOfU said:
The law of 3, as connected with our default centers per G, can be seen in the groupings of oppositions dealing with feeling center functioning, thinking center functioning, and moving center functioning --- respectively the Mars-Venus oppositions: Aries - Libra and Scorpio - Taurus, the Mercury-Jupiter oppositions: Gemini - Sagittarius and Virgo - Pisces, the Sun/Moon - Saturn oppositions: Leo - Aquarius and Cancer - Capricorn.
Hi, RflctnOfU. Thank you for sharing your views on the subject matter. Centers as explained in the 4th Way have been a very recent focus of attention in my case. I don't have a satisfactory (for myself) understanding of them but I'm certainly trying to examine them and maybe this discussion will be of help.

The "dual rulership" matter, e.g. Venus being the co-ruler of both Libra and Taurus, Libra being the masculine and Taurus the feminine expression of Venus is kind of uneasy to me. I lack insight into it and I think there are some long debates about co-rulerships and the use of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. As far as I can understand, classical astrology doesn't use the trans-Saturnian planets. The wikipedia item on Domicile (astrology) says:

(…) The discovery of planets outside of the geocentric field of vision in modern times provided a dilemma for astrologers, which most eventually resolved by a general consensus declaring Uranus to be Aquarius's ruling planet, while assigning Neptune to Pisces and later, Pluto was given to Scorpio.

Some modern authorities uses the concept of "night rulerships" to find room for the additional dignities. Uranus was designated the day ruler of Aquarius while Saturn was to be its night ruler. Similarly, Neptune was the day ruler of Pisces, leaving Jupiter as the night ruler, and Pluto was the day ruler of Scorpio with Mars as the night ruler. This notion probably had its origin in the concept of astrological sect, but this was the only vestige of sect in the modern tradition. Unfortunately, no allowance was made for these modern suggestions in the complex traditional doctrine of essential dignities, but the idea was very popular.

The use of dual rulerships in a manner such as this was also be known as "co-rulership". Some astrologers believed that the new co-rulers were primary rulers of the signs with which they were associated and might have been sole rulers of those signs, and if that was the case, two other planets, one linked to Libra or Taurus, and the other to Virgo or Gemini, may await discovery, thus eliminating the need for dual rulership of a sign altogether. Although the status of Ceres is unknown at the moment in astrology, due to its new definition as a dwarf planet, it has been suggested as the ruler of Virgo or Taurus. For some modern astrologers it is the ruling planet of Virgo and co-ruler of the 6th house with Mercury, and for some others the ruling planet of Taurus and the 2nd house with Venus.The possibility exists that it isn't involved with any sign, but in any event, it can almost definitely be attributed to the Earth element.

(…)

No consensus has been reached by astrologers accepting the so-called "modern" rulership of either Ceres or Earth in lieu of traditional, rather than 'ancient', rulers. A distinction must be made between 'ancient', traditional, and modern rulerships, particularly in light of the fact that ancient astrology is not known to have assigned what we commonly think of as domicile rulerships. It isn't until Hellenistic astrology and afterwards that you begin to see domicile rulers, let alone domicile rulers of houses.

(…)

Some discontent exist within the Western astrological community about some of the signs that are often still said to share rulers. Many suggestions have been made, but consensus could actually take centuries, as it did in the cases of Uranus and Neptune.

(…)

Classical astrologers whose methods are rooted in traditional methods do not use any of the outer planets not recognized by the ancients as the rulers of any of the 12 signs, preferring the traditional rulership scheme.

On the other hand, most modern, psychologically-oriented astrologers do use the outer planets as ruling planets of those particular three signs listed above. Many others also use the ancient rulers while using the modern planets as the co-ruler of those signs.

Other astrologers do not use any of the planets as sign rulers (Cosmobiologists, Uranian astrologers, Hamburg School of Astrology, other groups/individuals), preferring to focus more on the astrological aspects and other portions of the horoscope instead.
Most astrologers practicing Vedic astrology (Jyotish) only use the traditional rulership system and have been doing so consistently for quite some time.
My experience with Uranus, Neptune and Pluto has been alright, I generally find them to be valid rulers of the related signs but I don't consider it a dogma either especially when there is so much controversy or lack of consensus in the community of astrologers.

And the "12 planets" of the Solar system as listed by the C's is also very interesting to think over in terms of astrology, isn't it? There certainly are significant issues to be contemplated on. And I'm certainly no expert regarding these intricacies, I'm fully open to seriously think over any suggestion to widen my perspective.

RflctnOfU said:
I think that Libra is closer to the "other"/"Not-I". Of course relationship is implied in that, but I think the third force IS the relationship between I and Not-I.
It is OK, I mean what you suggest is not unreasonable to me. I think both of the suggestions may also be reasonable depending on perspective in connection with the especially multifaceted or multilayer nature of this field.

RflctnOfU said:
I don't think Aries and Libra can be analyzed in isolation from Scorpio and Taurus. (…) Again, Gemini - Sagittarius is better studied along with Virgo - Pisces
Since all the 12 signs or the 6 couples of opposite signs form a whole, eventually not any one of them should be considered in isolation from others but I think you put a special emphasis on these specific couples. Well, as you might have noticed, when I finished my speculations about the Aries-Libra polarity, I said I would go on with Gemini-Sagittarius, the third polarity. One of the main reasons for me to skip the second polarity of Taurus-Scorpio is that I have for a long time a general difficulty in combining the meaning/functioning of the 'negative/feminine/yin' ones (Taurus-Scorpio, Cancer-Capricorn, Virgo-Pisces) with the 'positive/masculine/yang' polarities (Aries-Libra, Gemini-Sagittarius, Leo-Aquarius), if this is an appropriate terming. This nomenclature of positivity/masculinity and negativity/femininity can be very complicated, I suppose. Somehow, I suppose I can analyze and interprete the positive couples more clearly and efficiently. Sometimes, I tend to suppose that masculine signs are more about the mental/spiritual, and negative ones are more about the material/bodily side of life and that this might be part of the reason why I have difficulty in formulating a mental/spiritual explanation for yin as opposed to yang ones. But then I feel that this can't be so easy, that there are significant points I miss. Just like it is too complicated and potentially misleading to make compatibility/relationship suggestions based on sun-signs, I feel that there is a similar complicated trend about the functioning of yin and yang signs or couples of signs. And I'm certainly not happy with my inability or lack of insight about how to deal with picture as a whole. So as you make the above emphasise, I feel that this might be an opportunity for me to get more insight about the issue. So, can you please elaborate on your above quoted statements?

Meanwhile, I want to share my views on the Gemini-Sagittarius polarity in connection with what I tried to describe regarding the Aries-Libra polarity.

I think that, rougly, Gemini is a data-collector and Sagittarius synthesizes data into knowledge. Knowledge is kind of about establisment of a "relationship" between/among data. And this is like a network/society (very Libran concepts, although this is not necessarily an exclusivity) is the establishment of a "relationship" between/among selves/individuals (Arian). So, the first/basic polarity of Aries-Libra repeats itself in the following polarities, although they have also their own peculiar functions.

These are all speculations, there can be many deficiencies or fallacies among them and I hope to develop myself, so all of it should be approached with plenty of salt.

As I previously explained in one of my old posts, I tend to believe in, question, analyze such a correspondance between the polar astrological signs and the density levels of the Ra-Cassiopaean cosmology:

Aries-Libra polarity corresponds to 1st density, 1st chakra
Taurus-Scorpio polarity corresponds to 2nd density, 2nd chakra
Gemini-Sagittarius polarity corresponds to 3rd density, 3rd chakra
Cancer-Capricorn polarity corresponds to 4th density, 4th chakra
Leo-Aquarius polarity corresponds to 5th density, 5th chakra
Virgo-Pisces polarity corresponds to 6th density, 6th chakra

Accordingly, there remains no specific sign or couple of signs to signify the 7th density and the 7th chakra. I suppose that the 7th includes all and is also more than them somehow.

When I say "Aries-Libra polarity corresponds to 1st density", surely this doesn't mean that someone who is astrologically an Aries or Libra or have central astrological placements in these signs is a 1D being! Or a Tauran or a Scorpio is a 2D, or a Virgo a 6D! All of us are still 3D STS! :)) This is much more than a personal issue. And, yes, I believe that just like all of us journey through 3D lessons, I think this means that we mainly experience the "Geminian-Sagittarian" axis in the above table.

So, how come Aries and Libra can be about the lessons in 1D? I'll dare to speculate that the gradual organization/networking of simpler forms of matter into more complex, organic ones, and eventually to the plant life, might be explained by the Arian-Libran duality very efficiently. I believe it is the attraction of the same Absolute force (7D) which stimulates matter and vegation to network/organize into more evolved forms that also guides 2D and 3D creatures into similar processes, which also probably applies in the later density levels as implied by the C's.

So the primal Arian-Libran function applies through all levels just like, probably, all other astrological axes also somehow signify certain functions in all various levels of existence.

So, I believe that the Taurus-Scorpio axis explains much about the lessons of 2D. Having an organic biological body system, journeying through the incarnation-disincarnation cycling and transformation into situations with ever new abilities. Although this is somehow valid for 1D as well, I think that that this process is essentially concretized in 2D. Along with many other specific experiences/lessons of 2D, this biological body system/consciousness (along with the related knowledge base of 2D) is eventually taken into 3D human level, the Gemini-Sagittarius polarity.

Gemini is more like Aries while Sagittarius is more like Libra in function. Just like Aries, Gemini is like a "newcomer". Probably in the OP half of 3D, souls (or souls to be) are more Gemini-based in function. They are in the "data-collection" phase. Sure, data-collection will never end but I mean that they don't have yet enough data to understand what exactly is going on in the 3D realm/class. They are in the babyhood/childhood phase as opposed to youth and adulthood. Maybe some part of youth can also be included in the OP side. They go through so many reincarnations to increase their knowledge about the "3D facility", so to say. I think that somewhere in youth, the individual will become free of their family's care in economical and psychological terms, etc. They'll become self-sufficient in some fundamental ways. They'll become aware of, and celebrate, their independent individuality, free-will and responsibility. I think this is 3D sub-graduation from OP to souled experience. I'm actually not sure if OP is a specific term signifying a certain fraction of non-souled population of 3D world, but I felt OK to use it as signifying non-souled or "non-individuated" phase/half of 3D.

Isn't it also interesting that when one is transitioning from the Gemini-dominated to the Sagittarius-dominated phase, this is also like from Aries- to Libran-dominated phase, in that, one is then supposed to unite their life with a spouse? Marriage is rather a Libran concept, too. I think that this period is also one after which more or less conscious contacts can be made with the Higher Self.

I also want to attract your attention to the fact that Gemini is much about developing one's ability of "speaking", "hands" "mind/logic", you see, these are all the specific lessons in transitioning from the Scorpio-dominated (transformation) phase of 2D to the Gemini-dominated phase of 3D, since a "human" is kind of animal which can speak, use their hand and logic much more aptly. See the "Geminian" connection? And, vice versa, a person in the Geminian-dominated phase of 3D will still be animal-like in many ways compared to those in the Sagittarius-dominated phase.

I think in the Sagittarian phase, individuals begin to shift their focus of consciousness from more personal and local realities to more social/collective and universal issues. They get more and more philosophical and/or religious. Surely, an OP can also be or appear very religious but it will be more "imitation/emulation" rather than an independent view of philosophy because imitation/emulation is an important part of how "children" socialize, learn and advance. Sure, one needs to consider the heavy STS influence in our specific realm, which will influence all of what I try to describe in a rough way.

Philosopy and religion as significant Sagittarian concepts are about, I think, exploring or questioning a non-dual, unified, basis of life or of all there is. The Geminian drive of data-collection certainly doesn't end in the Sag. phase and, by its nature, the Geminian drive needs to not "bind" to any specific data or fact, it is its nature to always seek other/new/alternative data, rapidly jumping from one thing to another with an unsatisfiable hunger of data/knowledge. Geminian drive, in an isolated sense, will not "believe" in anything, and probably it shouldn't. It is always dualistic, difference/alternative seeking. In this sense, it will play an important part for objectivity, scepticism, questioning, etc. Development or maintenance of a healthy Gem. motive is very important but problems may arise if it is not "balanced" with about an equally developed Sag. motive.

I believe, in this context, the fact that STS forces deliberately inflict much destruction and suffering in our life can sometimes cause us to lose some "faith" in a positive absolute (non-dualistic) reality even if we are somewhere in the Sag. (souled) half of 3D. One might have a certain STO-orientation, belief, awareness, intuition, but the very high amount of destructive STS action in our life scene can cause a certain loss of STO-orientation and add to the existent STS-orientation (that life/existence is not positively based or trustable or lovable). It is a slight loss of faith/orientation but the STS interventions continue, sometimes very intensely and directly. So, this can cause a kind of Geminian problem of duality between STO and STS. I'm not sure but based on some of my similar experiences, this problem might feel like losing knowledge/faith, like regressing, or, at best, not being able to progress. I think this can be one of the interpreations of what Gurdieff describes as the prohibitory balance occurring between the active and passive principles that play on or in us. Activation, anyhow, of our STO orientiation might be the active principle while the activation of our STS orientation might be the passive/entropic principle and when they are in a balance, this can result in a kind of stagnation. And the third force might be anything that disturbes this inhibitory balance in support of our STO orientation but eventually, it is related to the Absolute, which is 100% STO, as I currently think of it. Gaining of knowledge/faith, networking for this purpose… I think that an STO-oriented network helps one greatly to consolidate one's orientation to / faith in the STO reality. It can significantly prevent loss of faith/knowledge that can be caused by witnessing or being subjected to the very STS-oriented activities by the PTB.
 

bozadi

Jedi
When I say, the extreme STS interventions/attacks in our lives can inhibit our STO-orientation by causing a certain degree of loss of faith in the STO reality, of course this is not that simple. As I previously mentioned, awareness of the strict STS activities can actually be a very good catalyst for increasing one's STO-orientation. But this needs to be helped by networking. Without getting the support of a strong base of STO-oriented collectivity, the extreme STS show can really cause one to regress, rather than progress, in the STO path.
 

RflctnOfU

Jedi Council Member
bozadi, there is a wonderful little booklet titled "The Practice of Astrology" by Dane Rudhyar, here: _http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/pofa/pofa_tc.shtml

I think ths might help in your analyses/searching on this topic (as well as a thorough familiarity with G's teaching [ISOTM - Ouspensky, the Teachings of Gurdjieff - C. S. Nott, The All and Everything series by Gurdjieff (Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson...Meetings with Remarkable Men...Life is Real, Only Then, When "I" Am, Herald of Coming Good)] and other memoirs of his students).

If I may offer my observations based on what you have written. It seems as though you are very much in the thinking center. I have gone through this myself...it is a good place to start. However, it has been my experience that understanding comes when this teaching is felt. After direct experience, 'seeing' the "third force" is much 'easier', as it were. There are some very nice suggestions in ISOTM for physical exercises that can lead the way to an experience of the "third force".

Kris
 

Lathyrus

Padawan Learner
On the subject of the third force, and I don't know if it's necessarily related, but I came across this in reference to "the Fall":
Laura said:
A: Combination of factors. Numerous souls desired physical existence then was altered by three forces including principally Lizards through Grays, Nephalim and Orion union.



Q: (L) Let's go back to the three forces. You said numerous souls desired physical existence. When the numerous souls did this, how did physical existence come to be?

A: First was apelike.
It's not exactly clear what the "three forces" are nor is the subject brought up there again, but maybe it's some kind of clue?
 

bozadi

Jedi
RflctnOfU said:
bozadi, there is a wonderful little booklet titled "The Practice of Astrology" by Dane Rudhyar, here: _http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/pofa/pofa_tc.shtml

I think ths might help in your analyses/searching on this topic (as well as a thorough familiarity with G's teaching [ISOTM - Ouspensky, the Teachings of Gurdjieff - C. S. Nott, The All and Everything series by Gurdjieff (Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson...Meetings with Remarkable Men...Life is Real, Only Then, When "I" Am, Herald of Coming Good)] and other memoirs of his students).

If I may offer my observations based on what you have written. It seems as though you are very much in the thinking center. I have gone through this myself...it is a good place to start. However, it has been my experience that understanding comes when this teaching is felt. After direct experience, 'seeing' the "third force" is much 'easier', as it were. There are some very nice suggestions in ISOTM for physical exercises that can lead the way to an experience of the "third force".

Kris
Thanks for sharing the reference and observation, Kris, duly noted.

Teragon said:
On the subject of the third force, and I don't know if it's necessarily related, but I came across this in reference to "the Fall":
Laura said:
A: Combination of factors. Numerous souls desired physical existence then was altered by three forces including principally Lizards through Grays, Nephalim and Orion union.

Q: (L) Let's go back to the three forces. You said numerous souls desired physical existence. When the numerous souls did this, how did physical existence come to be?

A: First was apelike.
It's not exactly clear what the "three forces" are nor is the subject brought up there again, but maybe it's some kind of clue?
I'm not sure, Teragon. It first appears to be irrelevant with the "third force" issue but maybe it is a general clue about trinities occurring all around our 3D life conditions.

I want to share a few notes about the Cancer-Capricorn axis. Corresponding to 4D, I believe that the Cancer-Capricorn polarity also has a very important correspondence or reflection in 3D for advancing towards spiritual maturity. As usual, I will roughly try to express whatever comes to my mind at the moment and I believe that, by time, the same can be clarified much more.

There is again that parallelism with the first polarity. Cancer is more Aries like while Capricorn is more Libra like. Although each one of the signs in these polarities has their own merit and an essential function, there is always a kind of evolution from the first sign of the polarity towards the second. Or, rather than evolution, it might be a gradual balancing and blending of the first with the second. For instance, Aries portrays what or how a person or entity is like in the beginning of a natural and long process while Libra portrays how it is like when the process is completed. At first, one is excited, nervous, passionate, full of energy, challenging, eager to try, likely to make many errors. As the person gets more and more experience and knowledge, Arian conditions will gradually give way to Libran ones; having a good command, being calmer, wiser, helpful, guiding etc. Both Arian and Libran experiences can be gained in a more positive or negative way depending on the situation and also on STO and STS orientations. This is a matter of balance and the need of balance applies for Libra, too. So, a Libran function not sufficiently balanced with Arian features will lack vitality, strength, freshness, excitement, etc. The same applies for all polarities of signs. And both Arian and Libran experiences are on-going. One's experience is more Libra-like in one situation or field and more Arian-like in another.

Ra says the 4D is the Density of Love (and/or Understanding). And we know that the 4th chakra is closely related to heart. So, I believe the Cancer-Capricorn polarity is also about this, somehow. Many astrology sources associate Cancer with emotions, family, mother, empathy, home, protection, care, nursing, feeding, etc. And the Cancer-Capricorn pair is described as the Mother-Father pair in a certain sense. The mother archetype might be representing unconditional love while the father archetype is somewhat conditional. It might be that the mother gives fish and the father instructs how to fish, in this specific context of representation. Both is necessary depending on the situation. But there can be many layers of inference. I think it is also possible, in a certain sense, to associate Cancer with subjectivism, localism, childhood and apprenticeship, and Capricorn with objectivism, universalism, parenthood/adulthood and mastership.

Such comparisons that I make between the first and the second signs of astro-polarities are not necessarily a bad & good relationship in terms of either performance or ethics. They are all part of a balance, all are natural and necessary. These astrological interpretations or inferences are cosmologic/collective in nature, not personal. A person's sun sign, moon sign, ascendant etc. can be in this or that sign. An astro profile includes many planets and other variables in various signs with certain aspects/interactions among them. It is a really complicated picture and despite all this sophistication and regardless of any astro planet/point being in "any" certain sign/position, etc., the chart, let alone any specific sign, cannot by itself tell how advance a person spiritually is. A horoscope chart is a certain body/garment/tool that will be used by a soul, it can tell about many behavioral/reactive patterns and possible related conditions that a soul will be likely to experience but CANNOT tell how advance that soul actually is, or if that soul is or will be more STO- or STS-oriented, or if that soul is really a soul or an OP (not really individuated/souled yet). Believe me, I repeat, an astrological chart, whatever configuration of signs it displays, CANNOT tell these. So, never take it too seriously, because it (astrology) is not THAT omniscient. In disincarnation, the astro body/garment is also removed and a completely new one probably with a very different configuration will be obtained depending on the conditions, plans and necessities of the new incarnation. Your astro chart doesn't and can't hold the track of your spiritual progression, it cannot measure that. This is beyond astrology's depth despite all that sophistication! A person with certain planets or other astro-variables in the "first" signs (which are the first six signs of astrology, Aries through Virgo) of the polarities I describe can be in need of experiencing the functions of those signs just because this will "balance" an imbalance in the "second" signs of the polarities either in the current or in a previous incarnation, or even because the person needs to experience those functions in order to be able to inspire or help others regarding those functions. This is such a complex issue. So, never worry like, "Oh, my sun (or moon or ascendant, or any other astro variable) is in the first sign of the polarity, so I'm underdeveloped in that function or in general." It is not that simple. One might need to experience that function for very different and complicated reasons.

To continue with the Cancer-Capricorn polarity… Cancer, without sufficient balancing by Capricorn, will seek immediate/fast solutions to needs/problems without much caring about if the solution is optimal/permanent or not in the long term. It is like satisfying a hunger immediately and/or arbitrarily without any certain diet discipline, for instance. Capricorn is much about discipline and mastery but if, conversely, it is not balanced by Cancer, then it will be over-disciplined, over-judgmental and even cruel in extreme situations. The need of balance is not one-way, it's always bidirectional between the first and the second sign of a polarity. Imbalance can occur in any one of them and will eventually be reflected in both of them if it goes unsolved.

Ra and the C's refer to a corruption that humanity experienced, which resulted in the "fall." Just like the C's, Ra says that before the fall (before the "veiling", in Ra's terms), humanity was 3D STO in an ethereal realm, and Ra tells regarding the reason of the fall that it was a freely granted STO condition and that, with a full awareness of the connection to the unified being, with any of their needs met and without any fear, humanity was spoiled, they didn't have a strong urge to advance from 3D to 4D, they didn't do their homework. They repeated the 3D cycle again and again. It seems that humanity placed itself in a very awkward position and the guiding authorities decided that the only solution was introduce the STS option in connection with physical -as opposed to ethereal- 3D realm experience. I'm not sure but, maybe, if it not for our "alignment" with the Lizzies at the beginning of the falling, we wouldn't have such a problematic 3D STS process, but maybe we would anyway, and maybe our dance with the Lizzies accelerated a long term result, I don't know.

Between 3D and 4D… The Gem-Sag and Can-Cap polarities. The C's say the pre-fall humanity's realm was "more like 4D". So, I believe the Can-Cap polarity is very much related to that situation. And what is described by the C's and Ra about the process of fall is already very compatible with the specific themes of the Can-Cap axis. Capricorn is, as I described above, all about work, discipline, responsibility and mastery, and it is clearly understood from the C's and especially Ra's descriptions that humanity fell because it lacked these specific Capricornian qualities. With an excess of Cancer function, not balanced by Capricorn, they were too much accustomed to be fed and supported by the granted STO conditions. They didn't sufficiently want to work, take responsibility, grow and progress. They didn't really love each other except for pleasure-seeking. And it seems they eventually attracted victimization. Now, a majority of people work for very long hours in very bad conditions. But it doesn't seem like they have managed to balance their excessive Cancerian function with the Capricornian one by this "hardworking". Most of them don't really assume the responsibility of their own life. They generally tend to remain as minors and submit to the care of the psychopathic majors that usurp the authority of God and the State to determine minors' needs and receivables, and the meaning and worth of their lives.

Q: (J) Go back to what they said before: "Free will could not be abridged if you had not obliged." (T) We, as the human race, used our free will to switch from STO to STS. (L) So, at some level we have chosen the mess we are in and that is the Super Ancient Legend of the Fallen Angel, Lucifer. That is us. We fell by falling into that door, so to speak, going after the pot of gold, and when we fell through the door, the serpent bit us!

A: But this is a repeating syndrome.

Q: (L) Is it a repeating syndrome just for the human race or is it a repeating syndrome throughout all of creation?

A: It is the latter.

Q: (L) Is this a repeating syndrome throughout all of creation simply because it is the cyclic nature of things? Or is it as the Indians call it, Maya?

A: Either or.
This part especially attracted my attention. I thought about it and inferred that, maybe, those soul groups which start in a granted STO realm, like our humanity did, face a certain critical test between 3D and 4D. You now, graduation to 4D STO seems to make the STO orientation kind of irreversible. It seems to be great test. And I suspect that the cosmological area of transition from 3D to 4D is where the "repeating syndrome" that the C's refer to might ordinarily be taking place. And I noticed a potentially interesting correlation between this idea and the zodiac chart.


image.jpg

This is the default sequence/positioning of signs in the zodiac chart. As I listed previously, I assume that the polarity of Gemini (3rd sign) and Sagittarius (9th sign) corresponds to 3D while the polarity of Cancer (4th sign) and Capricorn (10th sign) corresponds to 4D. And in the default zodiac chart, the transition from the 3rd to the 4th sign (from Gemini to Cancer) happens on the point/cusp named IC (Imum Coeli, Latin for "bottom of the sky"), which seems to be a suitable position to connote a "fall". And, inversely, the transition between their polar signs, from Sagittarius to Capricorn, occurs on the point named MC (Medium Coeli, Latin for "medium of the sky), also named "Midheaven". This seemed like a very interesting coincidence to me. There is another thing that makes it even more interesting or meaningful to me. As you can see in the chart, the "first" signs of the six polarities beginning with Aries and ending with Virgo are lined in the "bottom" half of the default zodiac chart. This half is taken to signify "subjectivity" in astrology, along with some other related characteristics, and this is already a suitable approach with the correlation that I notice with those signs in general. And the upper half of the chart beginning with Libra and ending with Pisces is considered to signify "objectivity". And, in terms of "elements", the air and the fire elements are considered to be harmonious/complementary between themselves, just like the water and earth elements are between themselves. And, as far as I know, the air element is considered to be higher (or more evolved, maybe) than fire, just like water is considered to be higher than earth. And two of the three air signs and two of the three water signs are placed in the "upper" half of the chart. Only one air sign and one water sign are placed in the lower half; Gemini and Cancer. And with an inverse symmetry, only one earth sign and one fire sign are located in the upper half; Sagittarius and Capricorn. Another coincidence, which is probably competely coincidental, that attracted my attention is that the Latin phrase, "Ora et Labora" (Pray and Work) happens to make a certain formulation of the Sagittarian and Capricornian functions in sequence.

There are many interesting references that the C's make to various planets upon various questions in the sessions. Moon (an astrological "planet", like Sun also is), Jupiter, Saturn are also included. C's seem to make a generally negative reference to the Moon. And there is also the issue of "Food for the Moon". I believe this is closely, but not exclusively, related to the Cancerian problems of humanity that I mentioned and I think this problem of humanity is exploited by the PTB at extreme levels. This doesn't mean that Cancer (neither other "first signs") is intrinsically a negative or problematic sign but it is somehow like an area/level where a very critical trial is made as I mentioned. The Cancerian function is to be sufficiently balanced by the Capricornian. In the planet list that is provided by the C's, we see that Saturn is also called Zendar. And there is also an interesting reference to "Zindar Council":

Q: (L) Was Jesus special, Christed as it is called, in any way?

A: Quick exalted to end the wars and civil entrancement; Zindar council.

Q: (L) What is the Zindar Council?

A: Two cycle exchangers mission.

This is probably what Ra refers to as the "Council of Saturn".

The Moon is the closest celestial object to the Earth. And in the classical astrology, Saturn was supposed to be the remotest planet. Now we know it isn't. And in the solar planet list of the C's, it is positioned in midway.

In the sessions, there are also specific references to the sign Libra. By the way, although there appears to be no etymological connection between them, I find the similarity between the words "Libra" and "Library" interesting. Library is referenced in the sessions many times, naturally. The concept of library is actually closely related to the specific meaning of Libra that I examine here; gaining of wisdom, balancing, guiding, etc. And also consider the following discussion from the sessions:

Q: (L) Okay, in reading these various books relating to elements of the 'quest,' we find a lot of bearded white men running around dispensing knowledge and a close association between them and serpents, though there has not emerged yet a reference between the Serpent and the Templars and Christ. I suggested that I thought that were 'good guys' and 'bad guys' and that something that seems benevolent could also be otherwise upon closer examination. Mike agrees except for the mention of the 'smoking mirror' god which brought back the sacrifice. So, there seems to be the association of the benevolent guys with the 'serpent of wisdom.' Can you comment?

A: Many stories stemming from your history or antiquity are confused or corrupted.

Q: (L) Are the bearded white guys running around dispensing knowledge associated with the serpent?

A: No.

Q: (L) So, the bearded white guys are in opposition to the serpent.

A: Confused with.

Q: (L) When I was with Dr. Zanghi who was doing a hypnotic regression with me, he asked why I was being abducted. At that moment, in response to that question, a scene appeared to me of a sort of Greek Temple with a lot of "patriarch" types in long robes and wearing beards, who were teaching me and then sending me out to do something. What was this memory?

A: Not yet, Laura!

Q: (L) Well, that sounds foreboding. That sounds scary to me that you can't tell me? Is this something I should be frightened about?

A: No.
I think that the bearded white robed figures which we come across in different contexts are very Libran figures. Wise, peaceful, guiding. This doesn't mean that there can be no STS interpretation of Libra, it sure can be. You can remember the reference made the Illuminati guys possessing a great level of knowledge compared with ordinary people. And this is also about the comparison between children and parents/adults in the context of the "first" and "second" sign relation.

Also:

Q: (L) Was Venus ejected from Jupiter?

A: No.

Q: (L) Did Venus follow a cometary orbit for a time?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Did Venus appear in our solar system, from the area of Jupiter, coming from deep space?

A: That is correct.

Q: (L) Was Mars knocked out of it's orbit by Venus?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Venus was stimulated by the gravitational pull?

A: Attracted.

Q: (L) Venus was drawn into the solar system by the gravitational pull of the cluster of comets?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Where did Venus get all its gases and clouds and so forth? What was its origin? Where did it get all this stuff?

A: Collected during fiery, friction filled journey and space matter in general.

Q: (L) Where was Venus originally from?

A: Ancient wanderer from near Arcturus.

Q: Okay. Now, next question: I understand that Libra was added to the zodiac and broke Scorpio and Virgo apart. Were there originally 10 or 11 signs in the zodiac?

A: Originally?

Q: You know what I mean!

A: There have been many combinations.

Q: Well, when did the present 12 sign zodiac begin to be established as it is?

A: 1302 A.D.

Q: And how many signs were there before that?

A: 11

Q: That's what I thought. What is the source of the oldest zodiac available to us?

A: Atlantis.

Q: Well, fine, what is the oldest extant source in terms of writings?

A: Egypt.

Q: Well, that could really have an effect on one's astrology!

A: The art of astrology lies within the interpretations of the astrologer, and if accurate, it is because of psychic talents. Same as with all methods, they are merely mediums.

Q: If A has money in a bank outside of Poland, why is he doing the poor mouth, and why does he not let me know that I don't need to worry, and why does he borrow money from other people to give to me, to pay bills?

A: The Libran balancing act, by its very nature, must include some deception.

So interesting!

I think this is also related to the Story of Jesus. You know, after it was revealed that Jesus as we used to know is not real, the C's upon the questioning explained why they didn't tell that from the beginning. So the latter answer is very meaningful in this instance too, I think.

And there are many other very interesting references to planets and signs in the sessions. Such an exciting puzzle!

Lastly, the relation between first and second signs is also like a difference between an interest in a local / specific part of the picture, on the one hand, and an interest in the bigger picture. Both of them are natural and necessary depending on the needs and conditions. In the long term, a balance is needed and obtained between them based on accumulation of data and knowledge. "Balancing" as the fundamental function of the first polarity of Aries-Libra seems to be the reflected in all other polarities. In a certain sense, Libra is the balancing actor or force, however, in another sense, Libra itself is in need of being balanced with Aries! As I tried to explain before, Aries is the life force, kind of God-Spark, excitement, freshness. Without Aries, there is no Libra. The same is valid for other signs of polarities, but I might not have explored them sufficiently yet, so there can be biases, many deficiencies and related errors in my interpretations, they need to be developed/balanced much.
 

John G

The Living Force
bozadi said:
I thought about it and inferred that, maybe, those soul groups which start in a granted STO realm, like our humanity did, face a certain critical test between 3D and 4D. You now, graduation to 4D STO seems to make the STO orientation kind of irreversible. It seems to be great test. And I suspect that the cosmological area of transition from 3D to 4D is where the "repeating syndrome" that the C's refer to might ordinarily be taking place. And I noticed a potentially interesting correlation between this idea and the zodiac chart.

image.jpg

I think if you compare the fire, earth, air, and water trines to Enneagram triads, you end up with a Zodiac going from Pisces to Aquarius in Enneagram numbers of 3-3-1-7-4-9-9-5-2-8-6-6 (using a Hurley-Donson-like 2nd law of 3). This comes from Zodiac trine signs being 120 degrees apart (equilateral triangle) while the corresponding Enneagram triads are mostly adjacent numbers. It does allow the 3-9-6 law of 3 to be thought of in Mutable-Cardinal-Fixed terms.

Relating this to densities/STO-STS for me involves relating the geometry to the Sephirot and the diagram Laura had I think in the original SHOTW. For me the arrows of movement you have on the Zodiac I would agree with, but details would be different. Trines of the 4 elements really though only make sense for a 12 sign Zodiac so it may mean that the 4 element information theory is the more interesting part. I do think the geometry in math terms is a root system geometry associated with Lie groups derived from a Clifford algebra information theory.
 

bozadi

Jedi
Bluelamp said:
I think if you compare the fire, earth, air, and water trines to Enneagram triads, you end up with a Zodiac going from Pisces to Aquarius in Enneagram numbers of 3-3-1-7-4-9-9-5-2-8-6-6 (using a Hurley-Donson-like 2nd law of 3). This comes from Zodiac trine signs being 120 degrees apart (equilateral triangle) while the corresponding Enneagram triads are mostly adjacent numbers. It does allow the 3-9-6 law of 3 to be thought of in Mutable-Cardinal-Fixed terms.

Relating this to densities/STO-STS for me involves relating the geometry to the Sephirot and the diagram Laura had I think in the original SHOTW. For me the arrows of movement you have on the Zodiac I would agree with, but details would be different. Trines of the 4 elements really though only make sense for a 12 sign Zodiac so it may mean that the 4 element information theory is the more interesting part. I do think the geometry in math terms is a root system geometry associated with Lie groups derived from a Clifford algebra information theory.
Hi, Bluelamp. I know almost nothing about Enneagram triads and the related numeric values and therefore I am currently not able to make sense of your explanation. But I will certainly try to develop myself in that subject too. Thank you.

***

In my effort to describe the possible correlation between the basic astrology lore and the Ra-Cassiopaean cosmology, I must admit that this is basically an effort on my part to increase and consolidate my own awareness of the related facts or realities. I primarily try to overcome my own STS-based inertia problems. But, sure, I get delighted at the idea that anyone finds it interesting and inspiring in the way I do.

Speaking of STS-based inertia, I think this is very related to the introductory sub-topic of the relation between astrology and Gurdjieff's discussion on the "third force".

In a previous post, I said:

Activation, anyhow, of our STO orientiation might be the active principle while the activation of our STS orientation might be the passive/entropic principle and when they are in a balance, this can result in a kind of stagnation. And the third force might be anything that disturbes this inhibitory balance in support of our STO orientation but eventually, it is related to the Absolute, which is 100% STO, as I currently think of it.

And in a subsequent post:

In a certain sense, Libra is the balancing actor or force, however, in another sense, Libra itself is in need of being balanced with Aries! As I tried to explain before, Aries is the life force, kind of God-Spark, excitement, freshness. Without Aries, there is no Libra. The same is valid for other signs of polarities, but I might not have explored them sufficiently yet, so there can be biases, many deficiencies and related errors in my interpretations, they need to be developed/balanced much.

I think I gradually establish better connections in and between the themes in the two quotes. First of all, astrologically, I noticed something that I nearly missed about the importance/vitality of the "first signs". As I mentioned in the latter quote, "without Aries, there is no Libra", but I was not completely sure how, in what way this applied to the whole. I think I now can make the connection. You know, I explained that the "first signs", that is, Aries through Virgo, are lined in the "lower half" of the default zodiac chart. And I said that in astrology the lower half signifies "subjectivity". To overcome the vagueness, I had to remember the essense of subjectivity: The "Subject"! The lower half of the chart, Aries through Virgo, signifies the various expressions of the Self! And their opposite signs that are lined in the upper half signify a kind of ideal, balanced, perfected, enlightened situation, I am not exactly sure of it now, I need to contemplate over it more but I think that I've already mentioned parts of it previously.

The astrological conclusion that I made here is partly based on a similar but non-astrological conclusion that I shared in one of my posts in the "Meditation and Inspiration" thread, in which I speculated that 7D is the "Self" and that all other densities, what we call the "illusion", might be like the the Self's "mind". In this context, I think that the problem about STS might be an over-identification with the illusion. To the extent we over-identify with the illusion, then, we are of the illusion, or not aligned with our true self. For example, we say that "matter" is an illusion. And the C's say something like that the STS beings worship the matter. So this might mean that STS worships illusion. In another point of veiw, I think it might be said that matter or illusion itself is a passive mode of STS. And STS beings' identification with illusion might be what results in an active mode of STS. This can be discussed from various perspectives.

I want to add a few more possible inputs regarding the relation between the Aries-Libra polarity and the third force issue. Gurdjieff explains that an inhibitory balance occurs between the active/positive and the passive/negative principles. As I mentioned, I suppose that this might relate to the inhibitory balance occurring with our STO and STS orientations, which are fed or activated either internally or externally. We know that we are subjected to a great deal of STS intervention/attack externally and to the extent society doesn't effectively counteract, such interventions gradually become a part of the normal. And thus we are forced to internalize STS more and more despite our innermost being is based on STO (although we can and eventually will consciously choose and adopt either STO or STS orientation). So, in many situations, we can face an inhibitive balance between our STO and STS orientations in connection with status quo. This is an example when the Libran concept of "balance" seems not so helpful. This is a balance that needs to be disturbed in favor of STO if we really want to progress toward STO, the purest level (7D) of which is probably the greatest balancer, since "STO is balance and STS is imbalance".

There seems a certain problem about a perfect (50-50%) ubiquitous balance between STO and STS because this would probably inhibit, rather than potentiate, life. I think this is why 51% STO polarization is necessary for graduation to the STO realm, or to the true mode of self/being. That extra 1% that disturbs the balance in favor of STO is about the virtue of Aries, I suppose. It enables or starts organic/fluid life. It is not surprising that it is the sign that starts the spring season! But this Arian virtue is again based on a Libran virtue of 7D, the great balancer. All of this reminds me of the yin-yang symbol. Two halves, black and white with opposite colors in their centers. And both STO and STS potentials are inherent in both Aries and Libra as with all other couples of signs.

And, a verrrry nice coincidence that I also notice about the names Aries and Libra is that this makes an interesting association with the names Arkadiusz and Laura :hug2:
 

John G

The Living Force
bozadi said:
I think I gradually establish better connections in and between the themes in the two quotes. First of all, astrologically, I noticed something that I nearly missed about the importance/vitality of the "first signs". As I mentioned in the latter quote, "without Aries, there is no Libra", but I was not completely sure how, in what way this applied to the whole. I think I now can make the connection. You know, I explained that the "first signs", that is, Aries through Virgo, are lined in the "lower half" of the default zodiac chart. And I said that in astrology the lower half signifies "subjectivity". To overcome the vagueness, I had to remember the essense of subjectivity: The "Subject"! The lower half of the chart, Aries through Virgo, signifies the various expressions of the Self! And their opposite signs that are lined in the upper half signify a kind of ideal, balanced, perfected, enlightened situation, I am not exactly sure of it now, I need to contemplate over it more but I think that I've already mentioned parts of it previously.

The astrological conclusion that I made here is partly based on a similar but non-astrological conclusion that I shared in one of my posts in the "Meditation and Inspiration" thread, in which I speculated that 7D is the "Self" and that all other densities, what we call the "illusion", might be like the the Self's "mind". In this context, I think that the problem about STS might be an over-identification with the illusion. To the extent we over-identify with the illusion, then, we are of the illusion, or not aligned with our true self. For example, we say that "matter" is an illusion. And the C's say something like that the STS beings worship the matter. So this might mean that STS worships illusion. In another point of veiw, I think it might be said that matter or illusion itself is a passive mode of STS. And STS beings' identification with illusion might be what results in an active mode of STS. This can be discussed from various perspectives.

I want to add a few more possible inputs regarding the relation between the Aries-Libra polarity and the third force issue. Gurdjieff explains that an inhibitory balance occurs between the active/positive and the passive/negative principles. As I mentioned, I suppose that this might relate to the inhibitory balance occurring with our STO and STS orientations, which are fed or activated either internally or externally. We know that we are subjected to a great deal of STS intervention/attack externally and to the extent society doesn't effectively counteract, such interventions gradually become a part of the normal. And thus we are forced to internalize STS more and more despite our innermost being is based on STO (although we can and eventually will consciously choose and adopt either STO or STS orientation). So, in many situations, we can face an inhibitive balance between our STO and STS orientations in connection with status quo. This is an example when the Libran concept of "balance" seems not so helpful. This is a balance that needs to be disturbed in favor of STO if we really want to progress toward STO, the purest level (7D) of which is probably the greatest balancer, since "STO is balance and STS is imbalance".

There seems a certain problem about a perfect (50-50%) ubiquitous balance between STO and STS because this would probably inhibit, rather than potentiate, life. I think this is why 51% STO polarization is necessary for graduation to the STO realm, or to the true mode of self/being. That extra 1% that disturbs the balance in favor of STO is about the virtue of Aries, I suppose. It enables or starts organic/fluid life. It is not surprising that it is the sign that starts the spring season! But this Arian virtue is again based on a Libran virtue of 7D, the great balancer. All of this reminds me of the yin-yang symbol. Two halves, black and white with opposite colors in their centers. And both STO and STS potentials are inherent in both Aries and Libra as with all other couples of signs.

And, a verrrry nice coincidence that I also notice about the names Aries and Libra is that this makes an interesting association with the names Arkadiusz and Laura :hug2:

Well both Libra and Aries are Cardinal "third force" signs. For me they are related to the hidden unified Daat sephirot via this from Laura's Wave books:

book-3-ch-27-pg-3223.jpg


I do have the upper half of your Zodiac as more higher density STO and the lower half more lower density STS.
 

bozadi

Jedi
Bluelamp said:
Well both Libra and Aries are Cardinal "third force" signs.
Currently, I'm not sure if any certain sign or signs can be considered "third force" signs, maybe any of them can be depending on circumstance.

Bluelamp said:
For me they are related to the hidden unified Daat sephirot via this from Laura's Wave books:

book-3-ch-27-pg-3223.jpg


I do have the upper half of your Zodiac as more higher density STO and the lower half more lower density STS.
Yeah, I'm familiar with this representation and I like it.

And, based on some natural/universal configurations such as our solar system, I'm also thinking on a possibility like this:

dfe66e92b3ef672cfa9b5028292d28f9.png

Although inner circles/spheres look gradually smaller and "covered" by outer ones, actually inner spheres cover the outer ones in terms of density of awareness but I couldn't represent that, or maybe a more developed representation should be radically different than this one.
 

John G

The Living Force
bozadi said:
Although inner circles/spheres look gradually smaller and "covered" by outer ones, actually inner spheres cover the outer ones in terms of density of awareness but I couldn't represent that, or maybe a more developed representation should be radically different than this one.

That's kind of Jungian layers of an onion-like. I've seen the sephirot in 3-D torus-like form with what the author called "liminocentric" which means the inside is equivalent to the outside so that could kind of get the densities as a cycle with one coming from seven. Spheres/hyperspheres and tori are possibly useful bounded complex domain structures both for a high level information theory representation and differently for the related detailed physics.
 

bozadi

Jedi
Bluelamp said:
That's kind of Jungian layers of an onion-like. I've seen the sephirot in 3-D torus-like form with what the author called "liminocentric" which means the inside is equivalent to the outside so that could kind of get the densities as a cycle with one coming from seven. Spheres/hyperspheres and tori are possibly useful bounded complex domain structures both for a high level information theory representation and differently for the related detailed physics.
Yes, the toroid shape also seems to be important. I try to think about relations between spherical and toroidal shapes.

I previously examined some functions of the Can-Cap axis (4D) as reflected in the Gem-Sag axis (3D) and I can't naturally examine its real function in 4D because I can't observe it. But some examples shared by the C's and Ra might be utilized. I don't currently remember all the relevant instances such examples/explanations but the first interesting ones I came across when checking some keywords:

Q: (J) Can I ask my question? (L) Go ahead. (DN) Are 'The Allies of Humanity' a valuable resource?

A: All is of value if examined with an open mind and proper perspective.

Q: (L) You can get more specific, you know: vague in, vague out. The hardest thing about the process is thinking about the question. (V) Well, just from reading the table of contents of this Allies of Humanity book, it looks like they're trying to define a lot of subject matter, they're trying to define what is God, what is... (DG) Spiritual.

A: Or from their perspective.

Q: (V) Where does the information emanate from?

A: Channeled.

Q: (V) Channeled by who? (JN) Channeled by Marshall Summers. (V) But who is it that is channeling through Marshall Summers? (JN) The Allies of Humanity. (V) You are missing my point. That's a name they give themselves. I want to know: what kind of source are they?

A: 4th density.

Q: (V) STS, STO?

A: STO predominates.

Q: (V) Well that's cool.

A: Keep in mind that the 4th density STO perspective has a tendency to exclude certain factors by virtue of choice of realm frequency. This means that the lesson profile of 4th density STO is to enhance the energy by association in networks that do not include ongoing contact with STS, and so their perspective is on the positive STO experience.

Some seemingly related explanation from Ra:

Questioner: This may be too long a question for this working, but I will ask it and if it is too long we can continue it at a later time. Could you tell me of the development of the social memory complex Ra, from its first beginnings and what catalyst it used to get to where it is now in activation of rays? Is this too long a question?

Ra: I am Ra. The question does not demand a long answer, for we who experienced the vibratory densities upon that planetary sphere which you call Venus were fortunate in being able to move in harmony with the planetary vibrations with an harmonious graduation to second, to third, and to fourth, and a greatly accelerated fourth-densityexperience.

We spent much time/space, if you will, in fifth density balancing the intense compassion we had gained in fourth density. The graduation again was harmonious and our social memory complex which had become most firmly cemented in fourth density remained of a very strong and helpful nature.

Our sixth-density work was also accelerated because of the harmony of our social memory complex so that we were able to set out as members of the Confederation to even more swiftly approach graduation to seventh density. Our harmony, however, has been a grievous source of naïveté as regards working with your planet.

Questioner: In the last session you made the statement that “We, that is Ra, spent much time/space in the fifth density balancing the intense compassion gained in fourth density.” Could you expand on this concept with respect to what we were just discussing?
Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density, as we have said, abounds in compassion. This compassion is folly when seen through the eyes of wisdom. It is the salvation of third density but creates a mismatch in the ultimate balance of the entity.

Thus we, as a social memory complex of fourth density, had the tendency towards compassion even to martyrdom in aid of other-selves. When the fifth-density harvest was achieved we found that in this vibratory level flaws could be seen in the efficacy of such unrelieved compassion. We spent much time/space in contemplation of those ways of the Creator which imbue love with wisdom.

Questioner: All right, I’ll just ask this one. I have here that— could you give me some idea of what conditions are like on a fourth-density negative or self-service planet? Can you do this?

Ra: I am Ra. The graduation into fourth-density negative is achieved by those beings who have consciously contacted intelligent infinity through the use of red, orange, and yellow rays of energy. Therefore, the planetary conditions of fourth-density negative include the constant alignment and realignment of entities in efforts to form the dominant patterns of combined energy.

The early fourth density is one of the most intensive struggle. When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins. Always the fourth-density effects of telepathy and the transparency of thought are attempted to be used for the sake of those at the apex of the power structure.

This, as you may see, is often quite damaging to the further polarization of fourth-density negative entities, for the further negative polarization can only come about through group effort. As the fourth-density entities manage to combine, they then polarize through such services to self as those offered by the crusaders of Orion.

Very interesting food for thought regarding 4D STO and STO. But before that, something that attracted my attention about some relations among Ra, Arcturus, Venus and Sun.

Ra: (…) we who experienced the vibratory densities upon that planetary sphere which you call Venus were fortunate in being able to move in harmony with the planetary vibrations with an harmonious graduation to second, to third, and to fourth, and a greatly accelerated fourth-density experience.

Q: (L) Venus was stimulated by the gravitational pull?

A: Attracted.

Q: (L) Venus was drawn into the solar system by the gravitational pull of the cluster of comets?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Where did Venus get all its gases and clouds and so forth? What was its origin? Where did it get all this stuff?

A: Collected during fiery, friction filled journey and space matter in general.

Q: (L) Where was Venus originally from?

A: Ancient wanderer from near Arcturus.

It seems that Venus, which somehow came to our Solar system from Arcturus, also is the planet on which Ra experienced several density levels. And Venus was settled between us and the Sun, thus Earth was neighbored by Venus and Mars in its orbit, the planets that astrologically rule Aries and Libra.

As for the "Sun" associations:

Q: (L) The "Arcturians" talk about the path to the Great Central Sun. What is the Great Central Sun, and what does this mean, "The path to the Great Central Sun?"

A: 7th level.
And the historical "Ra" is known as the Solar Deity, the "Sun God". These associations are not revelations but I find them to be interesting food for thought anyway.

In a suitable time, I want to go on with a few idea about the former theme of 4D STO/STS in the context of the Can-Cap polarity.
 

bozadi

Jedi
I also were trying to find parallel correllations with chakras and, more importantly, with natural human developmental phases. I prepared a preliminary table showing the immediate possibilities of correlations that I've thought of. As there are interactions between sequential levels, there can be some confusion, and also errors, deficiencies, etc. It needs much development. I will try to work on it more. Feedback, suggestions for corrections, additions, clarifications are very welcome.

I think I can't add an ms word document for direct viewing on the forum. For now, I will add it as an image. If deemed necessary, I can also upload the word file.

astro.jpg
 

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Martina

Jedi Master
Very interesting, thanks.
My best friend and I are Aries and Libra and we were really good team.
 
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