Are humans actually supposed to have a gut microbiome at all? Or is this some form of chronic infection?

LeFuego

A Disturbance in the Force
This question comes from my own experience and research into iodine. Skipping over alot, i ended up taking and still am taking a dose of SSKI ranging anywhere from 6-12 grams daily (split into 3 doses), mainly because of some realizations about pretty much all of my health issues stemming from a chronic infection of some kind that i likely was born with that got picked up from my mother. The dose I'm taking is definitely high, but given everything i know about SSKI i don't think this is of concern (unless i should be C's?). The lower of end of that range is used clinically and contemporarily in the treatment of a chronic fungal infection (sporotrichosis) and at the same time the upper end of that range has been used historically for a few months. The initial die off and detox was brutal, but i think that's mainly cause my particular case was severe. This is about week 5/6 and things are definitely taking a turn for the better. Like ALOT better!

But this, along with EONutrition's post about serotonin being a response to stress, the sessions discussing parasitic infestations, the iodine requirements of the body, how well i feel, and knowlegde about pyroluria (which sounds eerily similar to what the c's described as chronic parasitic infestations, especially how common this condition seems to be today) really makes me question this good gut bacteria notion. I honestly, couldn't help but wonder if what we call our gut microbiome is in some sense a chronic infection that we have not managed to get rid of. Using the SSKI dosage for example, in the range of 3-6 grams which is used for treating sporotrichosis, this dosage is essentially one that would make the human body "sterile" if continued long enough or indefinitely. Hence, why it's used for treatment. At this dose pretty much any critter under a microscope is killed off except our own cells. Virus, bacteria, fungi, protozoa etc. So anything that's in the gut whether "good or bad" i'd imagine ends up getting killed off as well. And for all intents and purposes, both in my experience and in that of what has been reported, people seem to be completely fine if they continue this dose indefinitely even beyond the infection correction. Hell in cases like mine, i just feel better at that dose.

Taking all that into consideration, along with an estimated 1.5-2.5g amount of iodide/iodine stored in the body at saturation, i really began to question if we're supposed to have a microbiome at all. I mean babies are essentially born sterile in their guts. And i mean, i'm for sure reaching, but if we really "needed" this wouldn't the child have been inoculated within the womb instead of without? Again, seems more like pretty much all of us got infected and just don't have the required bodily energy to eliminate the infection. And EONutiriton's post about serotonin definitely would support this idea. Maybe all that serotonin in the gut is just a response to a threat that the body keeps detecting (i.e. microbiome). And not mentioned in his post, but just from the little bit i know. Serotonin increase very often raise prolactin in the brain as well, which increase under conditions of breast development, nerve cell damage (in order to repair) or drops in dopamine. I can give people high doses of a dopamine precursor and they can be active in the world, concentrate better and so on, but on high doses of tryptophan you get WAY to mellow to do anything

So overall that's my question, are we not supposed to have a microbiome or is it possibly an impediment to the amount of energy we can have in our bodies?

And i guess another question, that is somewhat related, is what we call pyroluria essentially just the result of some sort of infection within the liver that has manipulated the DNA of the host

Made this account solely to ask this question LOL.

Idk, may just be crazy but, def curious about this
 

Zar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Seeing as this is your first post it would be a good idea to introduce yourself in the Newbies section of the forum. You may have created this account to ask this one question but you may also wish to stick around once you start participating here. And I'm sure you have many other questions that are more important than this one, so why not allow yourself a medium of higher learning.

I could be wrong but here are some thoughts.

As I read your train of thought I remembered Zach Bush talking about the fact that most of what we are isn't human cells, but critters. I think we have more of bacteria, parasites, fungus, and viruses than human cells with viruses being the most diverse. And likewise we require at least most of them to function properly. The C's have mentioned, not that they needed to, that we are a smorgasbord of DNA from many living things. And that includes DNA that has bound itself to our human DNA from non human sources. So our bodies are very complex, and maybe we are the way we are to survived in this space/time.

Most/(all?) animals also have a gut microbiome, and I don't think it's an infection. If anything it's necessary to get all the nutrients they/we need. I've also heard stories of people, including my half brother, who wrecked havoc on their gut microbiome and suffered terrible consequences. Also consider how sterile we find ourselves these days with all the toxicity and what not in our environment, which also leads to many health problems, a healthy flora and fauna really makes a difference. I've read many accounts of other members having gut issues, but they all fixed their issues not wiped out their healthy bacteria.

Children may be born without a gut microbiome(as well as an immune system), but they're constantly eating everything to build it up. It's very healthy to play in the dirt as children(and maybe as adults too?:cool:) or be outside in forests as you absorb many good critters into your body.

Ultimately there is a danger from having your gut bacteria out of a healthy balance, and I'm sure you're aware of the many reasons why that has become the norm, but to dismiss it completely is like throwing quadruplets out with the bathwater.
 

Jones

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hello LeFuego, your experience with iodine is interesting. The subject of iodine has been covered quite extensively on the forum here. A search on the forum will also turn up other threads where it is discussed. I doubt that it's a good thing to kill of beneficial bacteria and each individual will have different needs according to their overall health profile. For some, high doses are quite harmful despite iodine being good in some contexts and for some individuals.
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hi LeFuego,

I'd just like to echo the invitation to write an introduction if you feel so inclined and decide to stick around, it'll be easier to get to know you and it seems like you have quite the story to share, particularly from the health aspect of life.

Regarding the notion, I think it's an interesting question, and perhaps I'd go back to this idea of viral DNA in our genes, maybe the idea of being human isn't isolated from our environment both at present and historically. Perhaps the existence of a human being is connected, and perhaps even a result of, the viral infection and the bacteria our ancestors encountered over their lifetimes.

I think babies rely on their mother's for protection before exiting the womb, and their own gut bacteria and inherit several traits and allergies or strengths as their born, so at that point, babies aren't designed to interact with the world directly. Once born, because of the way babies are design to feed and their mothers to nurture, the babies come almost immediately in contact with the bacteria in the skin of the mother, and that begins to populate their guts. Poetically speaking, the mother shares her life with her progeny, but it may be more than poetic, the bacteria that lives in the skin is the product of her habits and choices, and what she has come in contact with.

Not only that, but bacteria is also being transmitted by human touch to the baby, who will probably start bringing his or her hands to his or her mouth and thus populating this gut microbiome.

So in that sense, perhaps a bacterial invasion could be technically an accurate way to describe the phenomenon, but at the same time, maybe we're designed to be invaded, it's an invasion that it's meant to happen so that we can interact with the world at large. A symbiotic relationship that helps us as humans and the bacteria in turn to exist.

Just a few thoughts.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Gut Microbiota:

In humans, the gut microbiota has the largest numbers of bacteria and the greatest number of species compared to other areas of the body.[8] In humans, the gut flora is established at one to two years after birth, by which time the intestinal epithelium and the intestinal mucosal barrier that it secretes have co-developed in a way that is tolerant to, and even supportive of, the gut flora and that also provides a barrier to pathogenic organisms.[9][10]

The relationship between some gut flora and humans is not merely commensal (a non-harmful coexistence), but rather a mutualistic relationship.[4]:700 Some human gut microorganisms benefit the host by fermenting dietary fiber into short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs), such as acetic acid and butyric acid, which are then absorbed by the host.[8][11] Intestinal bacteria also play a role in synthesizing vitamin B and vitamin K as well as metabolizing bile acids, sterols, and xenobiotics.[4][11] The systemic importance of the SCFAs and other compounds they produce are like hormones and the gut flora itself appears to function like an endocrine organ,[11] and dysregulation of the gut flora has been correlated with a host of inflammatory and autoimmune conditions.[8][12]

The composition of human gut microbiota changes over time, when the diet changes, and as overall health changes.[8][12] A systematic review from 2016 examined the preclinical and small human trials that have been conducted with certain commercially available strains of probiotic bacteria and identified those that had the most potential to be useful for certain central nervous system disorders.
I don't know if you are familiar with probiotics. Probiotics have the microbiota that are needed by our digestive system. We are told to take them when we've been on antibiotics as the antibiotic destroy quite a bit of the micro-organisms that we need to have a healthy digestive system.

There are types of bacteria, fungi and parasites that are harmful for us. And trying to eliminate them is a good idea. But, as said above, we are supposed to restore the microbiota that are beneficial to us after having taken whatever we are using to get rid of the bad critters because they are needed by our digestive system.

So it would seem that, yes, we are supposed to have these microbiota in our guts. We've had them for a very, very long time.

fwiw
 

LeFuego

A Disturbance in the Force
Think I'm going to create a different post that explains my thinking much more thoroughly and link back to this one. Idk, this line of thinking is just too important. Got a bad habit, probably from discombobulated brain chemistry my entire life, of thinking i don't need to explain myself will because subtly i feel like people can see the same thing i do 😅

Likely will be a long post but will link to it from here in the future
 
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