All About Fasting

[whitecoast]

That could be why we fell. Not a sexual issue. It was all about eating food.

Hi WIN52, I'm not sure if you've read the book of Genesis or not, but the fall didn't have anything to do with sexuality or food as you construe them.

Gensis 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
...
Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

One hundred percent of the humans here probably would not be able to qualify for this. It would seem to be around fifty percent. In that sense, yes, half of the people need to eat or die. Without being able to clearly identify who is who, what can be done?

Okay, so about half the population doesn't need to eat to survive? Why does starvation kill 100 percent of people? Also, why are you signalling out food instead of other things like water or oxygen? All those gurus that say they don't eat but sneak candy bars every week or so would have a lot less plausible deniability in the latter scenarios wouldn't they? Also, fifty percent of people will die without food? Based on what facts? Where are you even getting that number? OPs? Where on earth in the (extremely limited) literature on OPs does it say they are physiologically distinct from humans in that they need to eat to survive? You're making assertions based on nothing. The connections you're making are so tenuous and slipshod, the fact that you think you can have a productive conversation with people on that basis is extremely concerning.

The majority of your above post just be summed up as, "But look at how much people think I am delusional for entertaining that idea! I must be onto something!" Yeah, or maybe sometimes a white swan is a white swan, all the theories about high-tech holograms masking the blackness of swans the world over notwithstanding. In summary, you are showing an enormous number of thinking errors. I hope you can see that.

 

[WIN 52]

Yes, you are right.

I feel foolish for suggesting such a crazy idea. Please accept my apology.

 

[monotonic]

Well I don't think suggesting it is foolish, unless you already know it to be false or have already made up your mind. What might make it seem like there is a "ton of bricks" coming down is that we don't want you to hurt yourself, and so the response is immediate. To a kid who is reaching for the stove burner, the response of the concerned parent can seem aggressive.

That analogy breaks down since I'm only barely old enough to be a parent, but I do think my initial response was too aggressive and for that I apologize.

What was it that changed your mind in the end?

 

[WIN 52]

Well I don't think suggesting it is foolish, unless you already know it to be false or have already made up your mind. What might make it seem like there is a "ton of bricks" coming down is that we don't want you to hurt yourself, and so the response is immediate. To a kid who is reaching for the stove burner, the response of the concerned parent can seem aggressive.

That analogy breaks down since I'm only barely old enough to be a parent, but I do think my initial response was too aggressive and for that I apologize.

What was it that changed your mind in the end?

My mind is still open to all suggestions until proven with my own eyes to be true or false.

I didn't say the idea was foolish, just that I felt foolish bringing it up here.

 

[WIN 52]

Intermittent Dry Fasting

Hey guys,

So I've been doing a bunch of research on fasting as of late to try to understand exactly what happens during each stage of every type of fast, and what effects it has on your body, positive or negative. Long story short, I've kinda whittled it down to a few promising things and wanted to share and get any feedback.

One of the more radical (and intriguing) concepts I've come across is "dry fasting". It basically means going without food or water for whatever amount of time. There are many purported benefits and things that supposedly occur *only* when dry fasting and during no other fasting technique, so I wanted to see if there's supporting evidence. It sounds crazy given the importance and benefits of water and proper hydration, but any kind of fasting sounds crazy given that food in general is also sorta important. As with all things, the dose-response relationship applies. Things can be beneficial or harmful depending on proper or improper application. Suffice it to say the concept was very interesting so I did some digging.

Now, a lot of the same benefits will happen during a water fast. A good discussion on general benefits of fasting happened on SOTT radio already:
The Health & Wellness Show: Fast-inating Information About Fasting -- Sott.net

However, I was more interested in exactly how is dry fasting different - what can it do that a water fast can't do? Water fasting has been much more extensively studied, so we already know it's generally safe and does tons of awesome things for the body and the mind. I also looked at juice fasting but it essentially sucks - it's the weakest form of fasting and you're also carb loading which defeats the purpose of controlling your insulin, one of the major benefits of fasting. I wouldn't recommend it at all.

So it really just leaves 2 possibilities (not mutually exclusive) - water and dry. With water fasting it's simple. The easiest way to get into it is by getting keto adapted first, even if it's only for a week or 2 before the fast. Keto and fasting are close cousins. If you're ok with moderate protein and basically no carbs, your body can already use fat efficiently and you've already gone through any "keto flu" so it's super easy to transition into a water fast with the least amount of discomfort. It's also much faster because you don't have to take like 2 days to get through your glycogen stores first, bypassing that entire initial stage everyone else would go through. It's recommended to supplement salt, potassium, and magnesium during the water fast although not a requirement and depends on the person and extent of the fast. And when you're coming out of the fast, just eat easily digestible small portions for a few days to ease back into normality. It seems bone broth is a really good way to do this and you can start adding solid food in small portions with it as you go. Some recommend watermelon and other fruits but I wouldn't recommend it - you're spiking your insulin this way, and although it may work to offset re-feeding syndrome (gastrointestinal distress) just like with bone broth etc, in another sense it's like hitting a brick wall to stop your car because of the carbs/insulin spike. Just kinda defeats the point of fasting in a lot of ways.

So onto dry fasting then. Here's a good overview:
https://www.perfectketo.com/dry-fasting/

The world record is 18 days for no food/water. It's more usual to do it for periods of 1 day to maybe 7 days (after having worked up to it slowly with water fasting and shorter dry fast practice first, and always listening to your body and terminating early as needed). One of the main effects exclusive to dry fasting is producing water from your fat stores and cells. This is probably the only major difference vs a water fast, but it leads to many interesting effects. One of the main benefits of fasting in general is autophagy - where your body "eats" itself. It eats all the weak/broken cells for energy. My understanding is that because of the intense "survival of the fittest" competition created by fasting, the weak and diseased basically lose and are sacrificed. When re-feeding, the body uses stem cells to replace what was "eaten" with new healthy parts. Within 3 or 4 days of a water fast, for example, it has been shown that your immune system is essentially rebuilt from scratch using the above mechanism.

Dry fasting is supposed to do this even faster. It essentially makes autophagy even more intense by also having to create its own water by stealing a hydrogen molecule via ketosis from your fat and combining it with oxygen from the air to make very pure water. It has been mentioned, oddly enough, that this is the only way to truly replace water with "bad information" in your body with pure unprogrammed water - over time. This made me think of the C's session regarding water and its ability to store information and thus affect the body in a variety of ways. I'm not sure if this replacement truly happens to the extent claimed but it was interesting that the claim was even made to begin with.

Dr Filonov is a Russian doctor that has done probably more research into dry fasting than anyone else. He claims that dehygrated cells act as furnaces that essentially burn up toxins, accelerating detox. He has written a book in Russian (which I haven't read yet) called "Dry Medical Fasting - Myths and Reality", which is unprofessionally translated into English and available here in both languages: _Dr Filonov - Dry medical Fasting - Myths and Reality - ebook at Fasting: Dry Fasting Support, topic 1819401
_https://spiritsciencecentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Dr.-Filonov-Dry-Fasting-Translated.pdf

I intend to give it a read and see what else I can learn. But in essence, Russians have done a lot more work and research into Dry Fasting than anyone else and they have retreats where people can go and do this under medical supervision.

It's a topic worth looking into, and I think if the information turns out to be sound, it would be an interesting thing to try. I intend to try "dry intermittent fasting" to be on the safe side until I learn more - essentially have a window of maybe 6 or 8 hours during which I drink water. My actual food window right now is even more restricted to maybe an hour within that period. I'll make sure to rehydrate well during that window and see if I feel anything different than only doing regular intermittent fasting with no water window limitation.

I'm curious if anyone has done any research into this topic or have any experience with it!

I started detoxing in 2007 and got more serious about it in 2008 when the benefits became obvious. Having been in ketosis since 2009, I went from 330lbs to a now consistent 180lbs for the past 7 years. My hair has gone from snow white to a more salt and pepper look. My nails need clipping regularly again. There is even hair regrowth on my balder spot, dark hair.

This is not something that is taken lightly or a fad that I have stumbled on. It's just frustrating to have to keep telling the story over and over to people with personal narratives.

This seemed like the next logical step for me to take based on past experiences. Experiences in limiting food intake with timely consumption for the past several years has been the norm for at least five years.

This basically is the next step for me. It's not likely suitable for all. Certainly not for 50% of the population. The term "useless eaters" comes to mind here.

The 48 hour dry fast was a real eyeopener for me. I did notice immediate benefits from the experience. When I went back on water my body had a negative reaction to it. With food the negative reaction was more extreme.

Sory to cut this short. The grandchildren are demanding time.

 

[Anthony]

I've decided to go on a five day (will probably go longer) water fast due to some gut and histamine issues lately. Accoring to research, it takes 5-7 days for stem cells to do their work fixing the gut. So far I'm on day four and have no issues with it at all, in fact, there's a slight increase in mood and I don't have a desire to eat. No drop in energy levels. The only side effects are drop in core body temperature and a whiteish tongue. Other people can get different symptoms, but so far I had only those.

I'll share some information that I've gather researching the topic below.

- It's a good idea to be in ketosis sometime before starting a fast.
- The idea is to stick with water (preferably distilled) only, it's OK to have 1-2 teaspoons of sea salt during the first 3 days due to loss of electrolytes, no other supplements, coffee, tea, etc.
- Drink according to thirst, that is don't force yourself.

Some benefits to water fasting:

But water fasting, you get the highest level of something called autophagy. So if we kind of breakdown these
five benefits, autophagy, it's kind of a word that we've known about for a long time. Meaning your body
will...in its amazing intelligence, will use the bad tissue, first, bad cells for energy first. So it literally balances all its nutrition, protein, needs...everything from literally feeding from itself but it does it in an intelligent manner that it will use the bad stuff. So if you have bad cells that potentially become cancer cells, your body knows it.
It'll eat those first. It'll eat the rubbish before it eats your good tissue. Incredible. The gentleman who actually
won the Nobel Prize in 2016, he won it for autophagy. And now, scientists are realizing that you know, how
incredible this is. And let me just give you an example but there are so many.
So in the old days when we...I was trained in water fasting years ago. And one of the criticisms were that, well, your immune systems get lower and that's dangerous during a fast because your white blood cells drop so dramatically. Well, what we learned today is that the reason that's happening is the body, in its amazing intelligence, will get rid of through this autophagy the bad white blood cells. And why is that significant?
Because all of us have so many of these white blood cells that hang around too long, live too long, and
become over-reactive, hyper-reactive.
So think of allergies, think of food intolerances, think of autoimmune where the body starts attacking itself. If
we can get rid of these overactive hypersensitivity cells then, oh, my gosh, we can turn off our autoimmune.
We can turn off these sensitivities and that's exactly what happens. So the white blood cells drop and here's
the second benefit to fasting, something magical happens. Your body raises up stem cells to recreate new non-hyperactive white blood cells. They're called naïve, meaning that they're just not overreacting but they're still going to do their job so it's remarkable what happens.
By the way, you get even your muscle. If you lose muscle, which is a myth, you don't lose good muscle, you lose bad proteins that would keep you from recovery. So, therefore, recovery in exercise goes up and you end up, in a month, gaining good muscle. So I mean all these amazing things happen but, so number one, the
autophagy. Number two, stem cells. Number three, your body resets it's DNA. I mentioned the importance of
turning off bad genes with a lot of the symptoms you may not like or conditions you don't like. Like a thyroid
condition, we have to turn those genes off. Well, fasting, it does this. It's turning off these bad genes. Fourth
is, it will reset your microbiome, so that's your good and bad bacteria in your gut, which we've learned is really important for our immune system, how our brains work. So you reset the microbiome. So it's a way to fix the gut. And the fifth is...and there's many other benefits. I'm just kind of giving you the top five, here. Fifth is
what I call hormone optimization, where body becomes more sensitive to the hormones you have. See, it's not about taking more hormones. Healthy people don't have really high hormone levels that cause diseases, cancer, etc. Healthy people are very sensitive at the cellular level to the hormone you have. Fasting does that. You also get this amazing growth hormone rise, you know, during the fast in certain days, which, again, very healing in nature. So I call it hormone optimization because it seems that your body optimizes the hormones that it has. So, you know, when we look at those five things, you know, the stem cell rise alone, people pay $10,000-$20,000 to get stem cell injections when we realize you get it for free during the fast. So really, the neat stuff that happens during a fast.

If you're skinny and worried about fasting, apparently not much mass is lost, mostly water, and I can attest to that.

Meredith:
This brings up an interesting point, too. I’m wondering, just as a side note with weight. Maybe some people are watching who are very thin, and they’re concerned about fasting. What do you have to say to that?

Dr. Pompa:
Great question. I just got off the phone with one today. She might have lost five pounds. She fasted for – it was over 10 days. It might have been 14 days. It was just water. They barely lose weight. The body is that intelligent. I’m telling you.

According to Dr. Pompa, it's best to stop fasting when your body gives you the following signs: white tongue turns back to its original colour, and you start craving food.

 

[seek10]

Thanks Anthony for sharing the benefits, I was on day 2 of fasting ( only water , one tea a day). No specific protocol or aim, just felt too mechanical, lazy, mind is racing and feeling little heavy and no will to resist the thoughts. So I thought I will do some fasting. Aftere first day, I was very light, no hunger or nothing. By today afternoon(2nd), feeling weak, so took coffee. Last time i did, by third day morning I got headache, so stopped it. I will take one day at a time and see how it goes. Good to know one can be on water 4 or 5 days. Next time, I will do properly.

 

[Ina]

As I remember in our family tradition as christian orthodox, one should fast every Wednesday and Friday as a common practice. Twice or three times a year before Easter and Christmas, and I thing for the St Mary in the month of August if memory serves well, there are 6 weeks long fasting called lents. The beauty about it is that every year the Orthodox Churches publish calendars with all the observed traditions. The link below is one of the examples of such calendars

Orthodox Calendar. HOLY TRINITY RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH

Orthodox Calendar. HOLY TRINITY RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH

www.holytrinityorthodox.com

 

[Anthony]

Thanks Anthony for sharing the benefits, I was on day 2 of fasting ( only water , one tea a day). No specific protocol or aim, just felt too mechanical, lazy, mind is racing and feeling little heavy and no will to resist the thoughts. So I thought I will do some fasting. Aftere first day, I was very light, no hunger or nothing. By today afternoon(2nd), feeling weak, so took coffee. Last time i did, by third day morning I got headache, so stopped it. I will take one day at a time and see how it goes. Good to know one can be on water 4 or 5 days. Next time, I will do properly.

It's probably best to go into ketosis before starting a fast, that sure helps. Also having a reason, an aim for why you're doing it also helps a lot. Another thing is that you don't necessarily need to do it if it's causing you problems, best to listen to your body. You can also try intermittent fasting, if you haven't already.

 

[seek10]

It's probably best to go into ketosis before starting a fast, that sure helps. Also having a reason, an aim for why you're doing it also helps a lot. Another thing is that you don't necessarily need to do it if it's causing you problems, best to listen to your body. You can also try intermittent fasting, if you haven't already.

I had been taking fat 100+ grams for many years, though I increased carbs recent years. Does it fall under pure Keto, I am not sure. My expired strips shows middle of keto spectrum. I am not even sure what the strips showing correct or not. I am more or less intermittent fasting during all this time, though not strictly.

This time, I did water fasting with some Himalayan pink Salt for 5 days. 3rd day is Ok, 4th day starting feeling little issues with lower back, not a big issue, 5th day was rough. I couldn't sit for more than 1 hr ( any where chair or sofa), that forced me laydown all the time. Not a issue, since it is a Saturday. By evening, I started feeling acid reflex. ended up taking digestive enzymes. There is a argument that digestive enzyme needs to digested by stomach. i.e it is fast breaking. Well, I tried with 1 Tbsp Apple cider vinegar with 1 Tsp of lemon juice in a glass of water. It didn't work. some other symptoms are strain sensation in the legs body fat. I did lot of Infra red lamp bath and hot water bath for temporary relief.

I looked on the internet for these symptoms, there are lot of video's talk about these symptoms as a side reaction that can be rough, but goes away in a day or two on its way, if one ride it through. There is no consistency when they will come and go and why. body knows what it is doing.

6th day (Today), I broke the fast with Bone broth( with some apple cider Vinegar) and hoped it will relieve me from all the symptoms, but it took 8 hrs before i can feel little better and took some solids ( eggs + avocado) and I think I am getting back to normal, though the acid reflex is still there. I took digestive enzymes 3 times today. I could sit for a longer time.

I did 17 day Master cleanse ( lemon+ maple syrup+ water ) twice long back( during carb days). I know maple syrup not a ideal one. the experience was not like this.

 

[nature]

Here is my experience:
I'v been on keto diet since 3 years: I didn't noticed any benefit, sometimes my chronic diarrhea dissapeared but came back rather quickly. I lost weight (i didn't want to), and still fatigue, brain fog, low memory, low attention, etc. 2 or 3 times I tried 1 week intermittent fasting (IF)

Since 3 months, I'm on carnivore diet, though not strict as I have some cravings (nuts, gluten free bread, chocolate hot drinking). At least, vegetables and fruits don't miss me.
I'm at day 7 of dry IF i.e. I have breakfast and lunch on a 6-7 hour window, and eat nor drink anything after 15 PM. I didn't think that I'll be able not to drink from 15 PM to 8 AM, even not a drop of water, no supplement neither.
What surprised me is that it wasn't difficult. So I think that being on keto and even more on carnivore diet makes it easier. I didn't have any craving neither!!
I didn't have headache
I haven't noticed any benefit, but at least I'm not in a worst state, and even I'm less thirst and much less cravings.

I even wonder if I will not make dry IF my routine; anyhow I will listen to my body.

 

[anartist]

I had been taking fat 100+ grams for many years, though I increased carbs recent years. Does it fall under pure Keto, I am not sure. My expired strips shows middle of keto spectrum. I am not even sure what the strips showing correct or not. I am more or less intermittent fasting during all this time, though not strictly.

This time, I did water fasting with some Himalayan pink Salt for 5 days. 3rd day is Ok, 4th day starting feeling little issues with lower back, not a big issue, 5th day was rough. I couldn't sit for more than 1 hr ( any where chair or sofa), that forced me laydown all the time. Not a issue, since it is a Saturday. By evening, I started feeling acid reflex. ended up taking digestive enzymes. There is a argument that digestive enzyme needs to digested by stomach. i.e it is fast breaking. Well, I tried with 1 Tbsp Apple cider vinegar with 1 Tsp of lemon juice in a glass of water. It didn't work. some other symptoms are strain sensation in the legs body fat. I did lot of Infra red lamp bath and hot water bath for temporary relief.

I looked on the internet for these symptoms, there are lot of video's talk about these symptoms as a side reaction that can be rough, but goes away in a day or two on its way, if one ride it through. There is no consistency when they will come and go and why. body knows what it is doing.

6th day (Today), I broke the fast with Bone broth( with some apple cider Vinegar) and hoped it will relieve me from all the symptoms, but it took 8 hrs before i can feel little better and took some solids ( eggs + avocado) and I think I am getting back to normal, though the acid reflex is still there. I took digestive enzymes 3 times today. I could sit for a longer time.

I did 17 day Master cleanse ( lemon+ maple syrup+ water ) twice long back( during carb days). I know maple syrup not a ideal one. the experience was not like this.

This is a mystery to me @seek10 . One does not expect acid reflux on a fast, and why would you take digestive enzymes if you had nothing to digest? I can see taking the acidic fluids (lemon juice or vinegar) as my understanding of acid reflux is that is _generally_ from too little stomach acid. If I remember correctly, taking too much salt did have a poor affect on my stomach when I fasted (and even when I don't fast too much salt can cause semi-vomiting, perhaps you thought it was acid reflux?), perhaps it was too much of the Himalayan salt? How are you now? If better, perhaps experiment with taking briefly more salt than usual and se if you have a reaction? If so, then you are better to judge how much salt (if any) you need in the future.

 

[seek10]

This is a mystery to me @seek10 . One does not expect acid reflux on a fast, and why would you take digestive enzymes if you had nothing to digest? I can see taking the acidic fluids (lemon juice or vinegar) as my understanding of acid reflux is that is _generally_ from too little stomach acid.

Honestly, I also didn't expected it either. I started for 2 days, then took it day by day with a intention of max. 5 days, for 4 days no major side effects. Suddenly all started on the 5th day. This is the video i saw to decided to try with apple cider vinegar

If I remember correctly, taking too much salt did have a poor affect on my stomach when I fasted (and even when I don't fast too much salt can cause semi-vomiting, perhaps you thought it was acid reflux?), perhaps it was too much of the Himalayan salt?

May be you are right in saying too much salt. I did have this semi-vomiting feeling.

How are you now? If better, perhaps experiment with taking briefly more salt than usual and se if you have a reaction? If so, then you are better to judge how much salt (if any) you need in the future.

Lower back issue, muscle strain and acid reflex are all gone. Pretty much back to normal. I slowly introduced all foods back one by one. I haven't yet introduced to fat level of pre-fast days. But I will be doing next day or two. Thank you for asking.

 

[ElinaB]

I started on the ketosis recently with help from How To Get Into Ketosis - How To Get Into Ketosis Fast although I have fasted intermittently over the last 6 years with varying results. If you are fasting you definitely need to remember that you have to be fully immersed in acquiring the proper dietary conditions before and after. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rich]

I've just been inspired by the recent session and so thought I would give a quick 1 day fast a go. It went well. I went to the local shop and bought some very nice Maple syrup but I under-lemmoned! - I suppose it is quite an easy mistake to make when starting something new to underestimate the quantities of items that one needs.
I also bought some bionta freshly squeezed lemon juice as a back up and I actually preferred it. I think that was because I trusted the Bionta juice to be organic. The lemons I just wasnt't quite so sure about.
In the UK it was a bank holiday which fit in quite well. I remember I did try fasting when I lived in Oman many years ago. I struggled there a bit because I had fallen in love with the fish curry that the canteen prepared and didn't want to miss out on it.
The next day after the fast I really enjoyed my breakfast! Was very simple bacon and egg but tasted great.
Following that I think this short fast has really helped to break up my normal food routine.
Before I was almost religiously sticking to set meal times and would east the same in-between snacks of nuts, crisps and chocolate.
The other "snack" I have enjoyed is a brand of UK crips called Nick Naks. They are rather messy to eat but I like the flavour and slightly prefer them to the other classic of Monster Munch! :)
In the evening I had a T bone steak and thought it was awesome.
I think the body really appreciates good food when it has to spend a day where it isn't allowed any.

All in all, a very interesting experiment and I will be fine for round two in month? (I haven't really checked what is the ideal frequency for fasting) - For me for simplicity I am quite happy to use the bank holiday calendar as markers but naturally I know that the dates are not nutritionally connected! :)