The Vegetarian Myth

[theos]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Hi RyanX.

Yeah. To make the switch with my cat I just mixed the kibble in the the wet food at increasingly lower ratios until he was just on the wet food. At times now I give him some kibble if I have to go away for the weekend. When I come back he's like a little cat-fiend looking for his next fix. I give him his wet food and he looks at me like "What the heck is this crap?" and walks away from the bowl. Then he'll start eating normally again.

Crap food is just as addictive for animals as it is for humans.

 

[RyanX]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Crap food is just as addictive for animals as it is for humans.

Totally agree! He would act like an addict on the dried food and compulsively eat, sometimes to the point of vomiting. And to think that a lot of vets still recommend this crap food to animals!

 

[truth seeker]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Crap food is just as addictive for animals as it is for humans.

Totally agree! He would act like an addict on the dried food and compulsively eat, sometimes to the point of vomiting. And to think that a lot of vets still recommend this crap food to animals!

Not only addictive, but from what you both have said it seems as if it is also causing allergic reactions as indicated by the vomiting/hairballs. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's causing inflammation which leads to vomiting, diarrhea and other more covert illnesses as it does with us.

 

[RedFox]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Crap food is just as addictive for animals as it is for humans.

Totally agree! He would act like an addict on the dried food and compulsively eat, sometimes to the point of vomiting. And to think that a lot of vets still recommend this crap food to animals!

Not only addictive, but from what you both have said it seems as if it is also causing allergic reactions as indicated by the vomiting/hairballs. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's causing inflammation which leads to vomiting, diarrhea and other more covert illnesses as it does with us.

My girlfriends mothers dog comes to visit my girlfriend sometimes, and until we blocked access would Always sneak out of the room when no one was looking and eat the cats dry food in seconds.....she is completely addicted to the stuff.
You can tell when she does that because she gets really foul smelling flatulence, and later her ears etc come up bright red and inflamed. Gets ex-ma (flaky itchy inflamed skin) in her ears too...which then get infected and need to have drops administered and all the wax cleaned out daily for weeks. She scratches them until they bleed sometimes. :(
It happens with her dog food too, but more slowly. I'm pretty sure those things are full of gluten....and they seem trailered to eat animal group so as to cause only enough damage that the suffering is prolonged and not to pronounced....osit
I did try bringing up the idea of the dogs/cats eating raw meat once, but everyone looked at me with horror as if I just suggested poison. Will try again I think.

Anyway, back to topic.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Hi RyanX.

Yeah. To make the switch with my cat I just mixed the kibble in the the wet food at increasingly lower ratios until he was just on the wet food. At times now I give him some kibble if I have to go away for the weekend. When I come back he's like a little cat-fiend looking for his next fix. I give him his wet food and he looks at me like "What the heck is this crap?" and walks away from the bowl. Then he'll start eating normally again.

Crap food is just as addictive for animals as it is for humans.

I've read that cats get most of their water from wet food. Up till a few years ago, I fed all my cats crap dry kibble cause I didn't know any better. Now, I leave a rather expensive high quality, grain-free dry kibble (first ingredient is some form of meat, often organic) in their bowl, and feed them wet food twice a day also. They do munch on the kibble a bit, but really want the wet stuff. When I come downstairs in the morning and refresh their kibble bowl first, they look at it, then at me, like, "where's the GOOD stuff?" until I dish out the wet food. I also fill their water bowl with distilled water.

 

[Ben]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

[quote author=Mrs. Peel]

I've read that cats get most of their water from wet food. Up till a few years ago, I fed all my cats crap dry kibble cause I didn't know any better. Now, I leave a rather expensive high quality, grain-free dry kibble (first ingredient is some form of meat, often organic) in their bowl, and feed them wet food twice a day also. They do munch on the kibble a bit, but really want the wet stuff. When I come downstairs in the morning and refresh their kibble bowl first, they look at it, then at me, like, "where's the GOOD stuff?" until I dish out the wet food. I also fill their water bowl with distilled water.
[/quote]

The idea is that because domestic cats are descended from the African wildcat, which is a desert/savannah species, they need to get water from their food. Supposedly cats fed on dry food exclusively are constantly dehydrated because they will not drink enough water to compensate. I feed my ferrets, which are even more sensitive to dietary problems caused by excessive carbohydrates, on a dry cat food which is 80% chicken and grain free, but I give them plenty of meat and even whole carcasses because it helps keep them hydrated and keeps their teeth clean. I soften the dry food with a bit of water because over time kibble wears down the carnassial teeth which are simply not meant for grinding and cracking it (they can deal with bones no problem as they are very different). There is an interesting difference between the rates of ferret insulinoma and adrenal diseases in the US and UK. In the UK these conditions are very rare because kibble is not favoured, although this is rapidly changing, and whole prey like rabbits are given traditionally (not that we are perfect, another traditional diet consists of bread soaked in milk - where the logic behind that came from I have no idea).

At the end of the day our pets cats, dogs and ferrets are obligate carnivores and if we ignore this then our pets and our wallets will suffer eventually.

 

[Al-ith]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Have you looked into the raw meat and bones diet for dogs and cats? It resambles most how their ancesters ate in the wild.Paleo for pets :).My dogs are on it for 3 years and have suberb clean teeth from gnawing bones,same with cats.My daughter has indoor cats and they are so happy with it too.It takes some time to eat a whole chicken wing.They are less bored and calmer at night.Also they are not fat anymore.
http://www.rawfed.com/ (new here,don't know if the link came through,but you can search the forum on it as well.)

 

[Eva]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

The reason I went vegan was moral, yet it didn't just pop through any sort of media advertising since I live in the country of carnivores. If you say you are vegetarian in greece people will roll their eyes and ask you "then what DO you eat??"

I had many chances to look into how animals are treated and killed but everytime I looked the other way because I couldn't handle the truth all the while eating my serving of meat without Thinking.
When once I decided to sit down and really look and learn how the animal slaughtering houses work, that was it. There was simply no excuse I could find for being part of this system as a consumer except if I kept turning a blind eye and saying "I don't know how it's done, but I'm good with this steak on my table".

At this point - and after realising that if I don't bother with what my body is consuming I'm also hurting my ability to think - I have reintroduced fish and eggs. Fish come from local fishermen that at least do not waste tons of fish by burying them in order to avoid lowering the prices, and eggs come from chickens that live normal lives eating grass and having their rightful time in the sun instead of under an electric lamp.
I still can't go back to eating meat though, and I surely will not as long as my only choice is buying from a super market.

I think I understand more fully what's going on with some vegetarians. I think the ones doing it for moral reasons have no real concern for health. That's probably obvious but I just realized this. I suppose I confused the lack of animal protein with health due to my own programming. I wonder if some people have had some deep wounding and attempt to fix the past because they were hurt so badly - they don't want to be responsible for hurting anyone the way they've been hurt?

So their vegetarian stance is a projection of their own wounded self upon animals. The meat eating population a projection of the wounding parent and therefore seen as the enemy. Being vegetarian allows them to uphold the image of the good child who can do no wrong.

The vegetarian/vegan diet (or dairy or whatever) further cements this inability to think (or having thought loops) properly by not supplying proper nutrients that would enable them to think outside the box. The box in this case being their own narcissistic wounding via their inability/unwillingness to accept responsibility.

That psychological assessment makes little sense to me. Accounting for decisions of consience with the 'wounded child' issue is a little too much. And turning a blind eye to the HORRIFIC slaughterhouse techniques that provide us with our daily serving of meat is, in my opinion, contrary to waking up and seeing reality for what it is.
One cannot do much to change this system but can at least make a choice whether they're part of it or not.

Of course, I understand that when you are talking about consuming meat, in this forum, you mean grass-fed animals that live normal lives which is a totally different issue. Yet, in my opinion, the way they are killed plays a vital role as well. Even if you look at it from a purely health-related issue, the toxins that accumulate in an animal's body if it has spent hours panicking before a painful, slow death can't be good for the one eating it.

I would be delighted to buy from a local farmer that respects animals and grants them a swift death, if I could find one. Untill I do though, I'd rather hurt my body through less nutrients instead of complying.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

I think I understand more fully what's going on with some vegetarians. I think the ones doing it for moral reasons have no real concern for health. That's probably obvious but I just realized this. I suppose I confused the lack of animal protein with health due to my own programming. I wonder if some people have had some deep wounding and attempt to fix the past because they were hurt so badly - they don't want to be responsible for hurting anyone the way they've been hurt?

So their vegetarian stance is a projection of their own wounded self upon animals. The meat eating population a projection of the wounding parent and therefore seen as the enemy. Being vegetarian allows them to uphold the image of the good child who can do no wrong.

The vegetarian/vegan diet (or dairy or whatever) further cements this inability to think (or having thought loops) properly by not supplying proper nutrients that would enable them to think outside the box. The box in this case being their own narcissistic wounding via their inability/unwillingness to accept responsibility.

That psychological assessment makes little sense to me. Accounting for decisions of consience with the 'wounded child' issue is a little too much. And turning a blind eye to the HORRIFIC slaughterhouse techniques that provide us with our daily serving of meat is, in my opinion, contrary to waking up and seeing reality for what it is.
One cannot do much to change this system but can at least make a choice whether they're part of it or not.

Of course, I understand that when you are talking about consuming meat, in this forum, you mean grass-fed animals that live normal lives which is a totally different issue. Yet, in my opinion, the way they are killed plays a vital role as well. Even if you look at it from a purely health-related issue, the toxins that accumulate in an animal's body if it has spent hours panicking before a painful, slow death can't be good for the one eating it.

I would be delighted to buy from a local farmer that respects animals and grants them a swift death, if I could find one. Untill I do though, I'd rather hurt my body through less nutrients instead of complying.

I wrote the above in an attempt to understand why some vegetarians reacted as aggressively as they do. It stemmed from the discussion that took place in a thread after an article ran on Sott. Note that I said some not all. Some relating to those with a more fanatical stance.

To me, for the most part, when someone has a reaction that is out of proportion to the current circumstances, it tells me that there is something deeper going on - that there is wounding that has occurred. That they are responding to a past hurt and are unable to distinguish it from the current situation. In other words, they are projecting and identified with their situation.

This then made me wonder if the reason that some people reacted so strongly was because of the above.

As narcissistically wounded people (all of us), we have programs that affect our current behaviors. These behaviors affect the choices we make. Most people see themselves as "good". If we are wounded in such a way that makes us feel as if there is something wrong with us, we can go through our lives attempting to correct that. In this attempt to correct that, some may devote their lives trying to do good for others. On the face of it, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem comes when we are unable to distinguish the value of one thing over another. We have little to no ability to discern when help is truly asked for versus helping regardless of the situation which can do more harm than good. So one can mistake having a conscience with what amounts to little more than programs that feed their need to feel good (unworthiness) about themselves and look good to others. Hope that makes sense.

I commend your decision to only eat grass-fed meat. :)

Just so you know, I too was a vegetarian and gave much thought to the post above. In fact, the time that I was a vegetarian is when I became aware of the meat industry and was horrified as you said. I really had to sit down and think about why I became a vegetarian and what what my diet looked like. Although I rationalized that it was for health reasons, when I looked at the diet from both my current perception as well as what I knew then, it wasn't. For me, that left the issue of morality. I saw that animals were being hurt and didn't want to contribute to that. At that point, the issue of what to do became relevant as well as why.

As was discussed here, many people who are vegetarian for health reasons really don't have a healthy diet. While they don't consume animal products, many eat things that are just as unhealthy for them such as gluten, sugar, corn, dairy and soy. So while they believe they are eating healthily and are doing good for the planet, they are doing damage to their bodies and brains and remain under the illusion that they are doing good. What good can someone really do if they cannot think properly because the body/brain is starved?

edit:clarity - changed fundamentalist to fanatical

 

[LQB]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

As was discussed here, many people who are vegetarian for health reasons really don't have a healthy diet. While they don't consume animal products, many eat things that are just as unhealthy for them such as gluten, sugar, corn, dairy and soy. So while they believe they are eating healthily and are doing good for the planet, they are doing damage to their bodies and brains and remain under the illusion that they are doing good. What good can someone really do if they cannot think properly because the body/brain is starved?

I agree - if we are to be proper stewards of this planet and environment and make conscious decisions, we need to be healthy beginning with the physical and moving up from there. Alternately, I also agree that this cannot be achieved through CAFO animal farming operations since this is neither good stewardship or healthy for animals or people (let alone the environment). There are many small farming operations that recognize this in which the animals are provided a good environment in which to express their own unique "animalness" while contributing to the eco-environment of the farm. Joel Salatin's Polyface Farms is a good example - and Joel confidently can state "The animals on this Farm have just one bad day". It helps if you live close to one of these farms since this kind of farming is best suited to support of the local surrounding community. But, Eva, there are many sources in the US, Oz, EU where you can mail order from some of these farms - and in doing so, you support this understanding and methods of farming these animals. Alderspring ranch (Idaho), for example, is a family grass-fed, rangeland beef operation. US Wellness buys grass-fed beef (and other animal products) from many similar small farms. I don't know where you are but hopefully you can find a good source. Alderspring's site is: http://www.alderspring.com/store/index.html, they have some of the best beef I have tasted, and the age it for at least 21 days before packaging. Hope this helps.

 

[Eva]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Truth Seeker, thank you for your answer. It clarifies the original post a lot for me.

To me, for the most part, when someone has a reaction that is out of proportion to the current circumstances, it tells me that there is something deeper going on - that there is wounding that has occurred. That they are responding to a past hurt and are unable to distinguish it from the current situation. In other words, they are projecting and identified with their situation.

Indeed, I completely agree.

It's also good to know that you were a vegetarian and went through the process of re-evaluating your diet. It makes your post and your thoughts even more valuable to me.
My last thoughts, before I took the decision to start eating animal products again were solely based on morality. I came to the conclusion that moral decisions can't, and most of the time won't, coincide with healthy decisions. A totally moral diet, as far as I'm concerned, would be to avoid eating 'any' sort of life, and this would make one die of starvation.
Maybe the core of the issue is to face the fact that we are meant to eat life, and be able to live with it without hiding behind vegeterian or other masks that serve as illusions. For me this realisation was a tough one but hopefully we can find other ways to compensate for our life-consuming existence. Supporting only ethical farmers is one.

So one can mistake having a conscience with what amounts to little more than programs that feed their need to feel good (unworthiness) about themselves and look good to others. Hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. May I add, judging by myself, the 'easy way out'. I saw something I wished no part in but instead of remaining open to real solutions I went straight for the exit "I'm a vegan!". Emotional thinking. Had I looked closer in the first place I could have seen all the pro's and con's and made a more informed decision in order to cause as little harm as possible to the animals, the environment -and- myself.

LQB

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I'm not in the US but the link you provided spurred me into looking a bit more actively for a nearby farm. I must admit that untill yesterday the remnants of my 'vegan program' were telling me that there's NoWay I'll find such a thing near my city, yet, a bit of slightly more focused search and I found one. They not only provide all the credentials for strictly organic procedures but they also invite everyone to visit the farm and see for themselves how animals are treated. What's more, they maintain a meat shop that is no more than 45 minutes from my house. Go figure

 

[Joe]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Very interesting thread, thank you! Like others here, I've also been vegetarian for almost all my life since I was a little child (~ 5 yrs). There were a few short periods where I did have some chicken. A few years ago I started to include fish. I'm blood type AB and whenever I did try to eat meat I felt nauseated and had to spit it out again. So I thought it was just not for me. But I never looked closer. There were the usual reasons of not wanting to eat an animal, which later morphed into feeling 'cleaner/more pure' than meat eating people.

Those rationalisations, or should I say the programming, was running deeper than I would've ever imagined. When it became clear from the diet research done on the forum that meat is essential for optimal health, I was faced with an emotional challenge. I was sure I could never eat meat, so what I did was increase my fish consumption. And by the way, without really admitting it to myself, I postponed reading the actual facts about meat consumption, until very recently. That would've meant to face the fact that I need to change course.

The thing is, especially in recent months my body's longing for meat has been increasing. And when looking back, I always had this longing for meat, but always shoved it away. 'Meat is not for me' -- the programming was definitely running deep. This realization only hit me like a ton of bricks when reading the article Burying The Vegetarian Hypothesis on SOTT (Thank You!!).

Thing is, I often need some mental preparation with many things. I had my first beef a week ago. And boy, do I love it!! That was the first time my body felt really satisfied with the food I gave to it. In those recent months, were the longing for meat was becoming more and more apparent to me, while I was still not ready to actually do eat meat, I ate loads of fish -- and I love fish, but really, it seems fish just doesn't cut it. Body wasn't satisfied -- at all.

My next challenge will be pork. Over the years, I've really been programmed to consider pork as really evil food. Don't exactly know where it's coming from, as I was vegetarian anyway, but it just shows me that the programming aspect definitely applies to me.

Just wanted to comment on your post above Enaid. I think it should be the "poster post" for all recovering vegetarians! If only others had the ability to see that their belief that "meat is not for them" or that they don't actually like meat, that it makes them sick etc. is pure programming and nothing else.

 

[Commander Borg]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

1.) Vegetarians are not more sick than non-Vegetarians, i wonder where this comes from, where is the so called scientific proof as Laura wrote in her post ? Where do you all think the animals get their vitamins and nutrition's from ? I mean the cow is a vegetarian too, or am i wrong ? The elephant is a Vegetarian and some other very big animals, how come they become so big and strong without eating meat ? I wonder. By the way, i never ate meat in my entire live, I'm 36 now, have never been seriously sic, never been to the hospital.
2.) The meat industry is the most pollutant industry in the world, it is responsible for a lot of poisoning our nature. (Rainforest, wastedump on agrar land etc...)
3.) If there where no meat industry, nobody in the whole world have to die of hunger !!! The US produces 90% of the grains and corn only for feeding the animals. With this big amount of food, you could feed all the people of China and India together for one year. Without the meat industry there would be enough food for 12 Billion People on the earth. Today as i know are about 40.000 people dying of hunger every day !!!
4.) The meat industry needs huge amounts of water, to produce 1kg of meat you need like 15.000 liters of water.
5.) As the Cassiopaeans said, we are doing the same crucial things to our 2D Friends, as the 4D STS do to us, and that is not very nice.
6.) I wonder if anybody would eat their dog or their cat if he is hungry. If you would do that, your neighbor would probably call the police. But is there really a difference between the animals. Some are for eating some not? If you kill a whale, tiger or dolphin you are the bad guy, if you only kill a pig or cow everything is a okay ?
7.) I wonder how many of you would still eat meat if you have to kill the animals by yourself. Just to buy the packed meat from the supermarket is a little to easy.
8.) Why is there so much anger against vegetarians ? As one of you posted, everybody can decide what to eat. I am confronted my hole life because of my vegetarianism, a lot of people tell me it's wrong or make jokes about it. I never really told a meateater such things.
9.) Most of the meat is full of poison from all those injections the animals get, you hardly get some natural meat and if, it probably would be quite expensive. The situation in the animal production reminds me a lot on the concentration camps of WWII.
10.) I'm not religious but: Commandment six: You shall not murder.

Love & Respect
Commander Borg

 

[Laura]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

1.) Vegetarians are not more sick than non-Vegetarians, i wonder where this comes from, where is the so called scientific proof as Laura wrote in her post ?

There IS scientific proof that vegetarians suffer from brain shrinkage. "Scientists at the Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics, University of Oxford, recently discovered that changing to a vegetarian diet could be bad for our brains - with those on a meat-free diet six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage." {Vogiatzoglou A, et al. Vitamin B12 status and rate of brain volume loss in community-dwelling elderly. Neurology 2008; 71(11): 826-32 }

Your post, actually, is an example of this phenomenon. Read: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/203114-Vegetarians-Have-Smaller-Brains

Where do you all think the animals get their vitamins and nutrition's from ? I mean the cow is a vegetarian too, or am i wrong ? The elephant is a Vegetarian and some other very big animals, how come they become so big and strong without eating meat ?

"There is overwhelming evidence that we can not be a vegetarian species. In 1972 the publication of two independent investigations confirmed this.-1-2They concerned fats. About half our brain and nervous system is composed of complicated, long-chain, fatty acids. These are also used in the walls of our blood vessels. Without them we cannot develop normally. These fatty acids do not occur in plants, although fatty acids in a simpler form do. This is where plant-eating herbivores come in. Over the year, the herbivores convert the simple fatty acids found in grasses and seeds into intermediate, more complicated forms. By eating the herbivores we can convert their stores of these fatty acids into the ones we need." {Sinclair AJ. Long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in mammalian brain. Proc Nutr Soc 1975; 34: 287-91. }

I wonder. By the way, i never ate meat in my entire live, I'm 36 now, have never been seriously sic, never been to the hospital.

But you seem to have cognitive difficulties; connection?

2.) The meat industry is the most pollutant industry in the world, it is responsible for a lot of poisoning our nature. (Rainforest, wastedump on agrar land etc...)

Wrong. Those advocating anthropogenic global warming and the destruction of humanity want you to believe that and, apparently, their programming worked on you because of the problem already identified above: you seem to have cognitive difficulties.

3.) If there where no meat industry, nobody in the whole world have to die of hunger !!! The US produces 90% of the grains and corn only for feeding the animals. With this big amount of food, you could feed all the people of China and India together for one year. Without the meat industry there would be enough food for 12 Billion People on the earth. Today as i know are about 40.000 people dying of hunger every day !!!

Wrong again. Most of the grain produced in the U.S. and elsewhere goes to make biofuels.

4.) The meat industry needs huge amounts of water, to produce 1kg of meat you need like 15.000 liters of water.

Wrong again. Far more water is used to produce less energy in terms of vegetable fuel than is needed for raising livestock. If animals were allowed to eat grass instead of forced to eat dried grains, they would also get a lot of their moisture from plants.

5.) As the Cassiopaeans said, we are doing the same crucial things to our 2D Friends, as the 4D STS do to us, and that is not very nice.

"Crucial"??? Like I said, being a vegetarian hasn't helped you a bit. And if you are going to quote the Cs, you should at least be aware that they do not advocate a vegetarian diet for human beings.

6.) I wonder if anybody would eat their dog or their cat if he is hungry. If you would do that, your neighbor would probably call the police. But is there really a difference between the animals. Some are for eating some not? If you kill a whale, tiger or dolphin you are the bad guy, if you only kill a pig or cow everything is a okay ?

Cognitive difficulties again. Not only do you not seem to be aware of the vast differences between the digestive tracts of herbivores like cattle, elephants, etc, and those of human beings, you don't seem to be aware that carnivores do not usually eat other carnivores. Dogs and cats are carnivores. So are tigers. Whales and dolphins are indeed eaten by some cultures and not by others. Dogs are eaten by some cultures and not by others. I happen to think that dogs, whales and dolphins shouldn't be on the menu except in cases of extreme necessity. But what I think and feel personally has nothing to do with the scientific facts of nutrition: that meat is what human beings evolved to eat and is responsible for their big brains and the intelligence to discuss this topic.

7.) I wonder how many of you would still eat meat if you have to kill the animals by yourself. Just to buy the packed meat from the supermarket is a little to easy.

Some of us do take the responsibility for seeing that our food is honored with a respectful and humane sacrifice to the well-being of humanity.

8.) Why is there so much anger against vegetarians ? As one of you posted, everybody can decide what to eat. I am confronted my hole life because of my vegetarianism, a lot of people tell me it's wrong or make jokes about it. I never really told a meateater such things.

Cognitive difficulties again; apparently you didn't read the thread completely or the article and comments that led to the creation of the thread. If you had, you would notice that it is the vegetarians - including yourself - that come along with your cockamamie BS about vegetarianism that is so full of holes and logical inconsistencies that you only end up being poster kids for why humans SHOULD eat meat!

9.) Most of the meat is full of poison from all those injections the animals get, you hardly get some natural meat and if, it probably would be quite expensive. The situation in the animal production reminds me a lot on the concentration camps of WWII.

Well, you finally got something right. Yes, most meat - especially in the U.S. - is full of poisons that are bad for the animal and bad for the consumer. That's why we advocate organic meats and preferably, grass fed as well as free-range chickens.

10.) I'm not religious but: Commandment six: You shall not murder.

Cognitive issues again. Obviously, you haven't read the Bible.

Love & Respect
Commander Borg

There is neither love nor respect in a word you have written, least of all for yourself.

 

[RyanX]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

7.) I wonder how many of you would still eat meat if you have to kill the animals by yourself. Just to buy the packed meat from the supermarket is a little to easy.

The same could be said for most staple foods in the typical vegetarian diet. Have you ever tried to harvest your own grains by hand? Or how about cut and process cain, corn, etc. into sugar? I mean, if we're talking about taking a life here, plants are still alive are they not? It's pretty easy when you can just pick up bags of the stuff at the local supermarket. Or better yet, just buy the already processed foods from the vegetarian "health"-food section of the store. I wonder how many vegetarians would still eat massive amounts of grains and sugars if they were forced to do all of this work by hand?

Now compare this to a hunter or farmer who can butcher and process an animal within a day and have it ready for a whole family to eat - and the meat can last for months at a time if properly stored. That's all within the realm of the DIYer who has the appropriate tools (mostly just a band-saw, wide assortment of knives and hand-saws are needed). If you cut all your own grains by hand, you'll spend weeks in the fields cutting it down by scythe. It's backbreaking work from what I've read. Then you'll have to thrash it and separate out the seeds, which can take days. Then, to top it off, you'll have to grind those grains by hand with a hand-mill. This is something I actually tried back in my veg days as an experiment. It takes about a couple hours grinding just to get a single loaf of bread - let me repeat: a SINGLE loaf of bread - and the grinding isn't easy either, you'll have to take periodic breaks just to avoid muscle cramps (which are probably made worse by the veg diet). And the bread made from hand-grinding is coarse, hard and hardly anything you'd want to eat let alone depend on for health. None of this work is "fun", that's why we've erected massive industries that use modern harvesters and other factory machinery to bring these foods to fruition (if you can call it that). The vegetarian diet is a monstrosity produced only by a culture as addicted and diseased as our own. Check out this article if you haven't already:

Origins of Agriculture - Did Civilization Arise to Deliver a Fix?

Other than that I don't have much more to add to what Laura already said.