Body positivity and fat acceptance movement

Another aspect has been discussed elsewhere, I think here on the forum or maybe Laura wrote about it somewhere.

That achieving things in life takes hard work, for most people anyway. If you are naturally fatter than others, then even dieting and exercising for superficial reasons takes effort. But there are people who are naturally thin. This creates resentment: “Why should I have to work hard to achieve what someone else just has naturally?” There, the victim mentality enters and the attitude that those who are naturally thin are oppressors. So that’s where the attitude is born that I’m going to flaunt may fatness, and create/join the cultural movement that glorifies it.

I’m sure Laura’s point (though I could be misremembering) was about beauty with regards to attracting a male. That in the past, women who weren’t naturally attractive would have to develop their mind and talents and skills and abilities, to make a success of themselves in other ways, in order to attract a partner. Instead, nowadays, you dye your hair blue and scream at the sky and say woke things.
Good point, what I wanted to reiterate in my previous message could be summed up by the below article, translated from italian into English with deepl. It's a bit philosophical but i think it's worth reading:
It is 1996. In the cultural studies journal Social Text, an academic journal popularized by Duke University Press, and born in 1979 out of the intentions of an independent publishing collective, an article signed by noted physicist Alan Sokal (1955) is published: Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity. The terminology used draws, right from the title, from the increasingly ambiguous vocabulary of postmodernism, particularly beloved in American academia and now well beyond the native enclosure of literary and philosophical criticism. The author's expressed (but as we shall see, not actual) intentions would be to investigate the ideological, philosophical and political implications of new theories and considerations in contemporary physics, with particular reference to the Quantum gravity. Such intentions are deemed reliable by the editors of Social Text, who decide to publish without verifying the actual imprint from the piece or ascertaining its scientific assumptions (a kind of blind review devoid of any form of peer review) . Appropriating formulas typical of the prevailing cultural relativism, cleverly mixed with scientific jargon, Sokal argues that "physical 'reality,' no less than social 'reality,' is ultimately a social and linguistic construction, far from being objective, it reflects and encodes the dominant ideologies and power relations typical of the culture that generated it," and adds that "the truths of science are inherently dependent on the theoretical context used and therefore self-referential [... ] while undeniably valuable, cannot claim a privileged cognitive position over counterhegemonic narratives that are produced in dissident or marginalized communities" (Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont, Intellectual Impostures, Garzanti, Milan 1999, p. 218).

Being, therefore, pretendedly aligned with relativist academic thought, and manifesting the mode of terminological and conceptual transposition typical of the adherents of postmodernism, the article is read and appreciated, until the author himself reveals the hoax by issuing a statement in A Physicist Experiments with Cultural Studies, a counter-article published in the journal Lingua Franca, which reveals the "hoax" and the parodic purpose of the former.

Attack on postmodernism

Sokal's real intent, in fact, is to debunk the prevailing cultural temperament, denouncing its absurdity and the evanescence of methods and content based on intellectual arrogance, empty rhetoric, linguistic digression, superficiality, ignorance, and wilful incomprehensibility in which "allusions, metaphors and puns replace evidence and logic."


The protest is against the political-ideological instrumentalization typical of relativism, a subject the author explores in depth with fellow Belgian Jean Bricmont (1952) in his book Impostures Intellectuelles (1997), published in the wake of the controversy triggered by the articles , and in which the two analyze the texts of some of the founding fathers of postmodernism and posthumanism such as Jacques Lacan (1901-1981), Jean Baudrillard (1929-2007) and even Gilles Deleuze (1925-1995).

The denunciation of philosophical abuse

The meticulous analysis of their works would highlight, for Sokal and Bricmont, sought-after expository ambiguity, superficial knowledge of the plundered scientific fields, illogical and content-free imitation of scientific language, and cumbersome isolation of metaphors drawn from different contexts, placing them outside their original value and meaning, all with the aim of deconstructing - and thus denying - objective reality in order to give authority to a relativism fed on philosophical authoritarianism. The abuse of scientific meanings thus generates nonmeanings, urging fluidity of values, ethics, individual, social, even sexual identity.

The linguistic - and conceptual - analogies embroidered with countless rhetorical stylistic devices between science, philosophy, sociology, or even psychology, seem to be nothing more, in the end, than overwriting to give authority to theories that scientifically have none, since they lack any empirical basis. The result would be a "soup of ideas, often poorly formulated, which can be grouped under the name of relativism and which are currently quite influential in some academic fields of the humanities and social sciences" (Intellectual Impostures, op. cit. p. 58).

The ambiguity of relativism

The problem is, however, that the postmodernist texts carefully read and dismantled by the authors of Intellectual Impostures are the basis for much of contemporary culture, where there seems to be no longer an equal relationship between the idea and reality. The aesthetic, cognitive, moral or ethical relativism that underpins postmodernism has, for Sokal, "enormous consequences for culture in general and for people's way of thinking"; it cannot give rise to objective knowledge of the world; on the contrary, it leads to nihilism, the defragmentation of truth and the annihilation of reason, contributing to scientific and ontological drift.
 
There's been a definite shift that has reached popular thinking over individual issues, and the overarching theme is a hostile approach to life. At a fundamental level this ideology teaches an opposition toward learning and growing from our unique life challenges. It imparts a type of contempt for life and the universe through a rejection of it. It talks of 'acceptance', but this is in word only because it's really only about accepting denial and nihilism. You can see how the human spirit can become sacrificed in this.

People may be overwhelmed with stress and problems that have built up from life and that can manifest in all sorts of ways. Obesity may be tricky because there can be all sorts of causes and influences, but that is also the nature of most human problems. Stress is designed to get us moving, to do something about our condition. We can face those stresses to make ourselves stronger, or we can deny them which will cause the stress to build and build. But what is offered here seems a step almost beyond denial, where people actively kill the struggle in ourselves that interacts with life so as to identify disorder as order. Yes, that is still denial, but there is is also something willful and actively against the create universe in it. In killing off these things, it eliminates the acknowledgement of certain 'faces of god' in their worldview, namely those elements involved in free will, planning, organizing, doing, learning, understanding, and growing. It seems a warping of life into an aberration of itself.
 
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There's been a definite shift that has reached popular thinking over individual issues, and the overarching theme is a hostile approach to life. At a fundamental level this ideology teaches an opposition toward learning and growing from our unique life challenges. It imparts a type of contempt for life and the universe through a rejection of it. It utilizes 'acceptance', but this is in word only because it's really only about accepting denial and nihilism. You can see how the human spirit can become sacrificed in this.

People may be overwhelmed with stress and problems that have built up from life and that can manifest in all sorts of ways. Obesity may be tricky because there can be all sorts of causes and influences, but that is also the nature of most human problems. Stress is designed to get us moving, to do something about our condition. We can face those stresses to make ourselves stronger, or we can deny them which will cause the stress to build and build. But what is offered here seems a step almost beyond denial, where people actively kill the struggle in ourselves that interacts with life so as to identify disorder as order. Yes, that is still denial, but there is is also something willful and actively against the create universe in it. In killing off these things, it eliminates the acknowledgement of certain 'faces of god' in their worldview, namely those elements involved in free will, planning, organizing, doing, learning, understanding, and growing. It seems a warping of life into an aberration of itself.
This is a very good point, and it is closely related to the development of positive psychology, where you choose not to see reality as a whole and focus only on the positive and give yourself certain excuses not to change your condition. This can be about morbid obesity as well as generally saying "it's ok to be a victim" and wanting to stay that way. I have a friend who was very beautiful 10 years ago and because of a lot of emotional upheaval she is morbidly obese, she has lost all her charm despite her beautiful soul. However, she takes charge of her life because she recognizes and wants to face her problems to regain her physical and mental health. In general, I have the feeling that we try to push people as much as possible not to want to "fight" through themselves but on the contrary to pity them by giving them excuses, in itself it is a pure and simple abandonment of the exercise of free will. Besides, the branch of health psychology is adept at positive psychology, which is a real problem in some hospitals
 
I've been researching this topic for a while now and I was wondering what you guys think about it.
Personally, as an obese man, the "fat acceptance" movement is BS, and separate from how I define body positivity. Body positivity is accepting your body as it is right now, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do anything about it. You just shouldn't beat yourself up about your appearance. Failure to accept your body as it is leads to body dysmorphia, something I struggled with as I spent years in denial about the weight I was putting on and saw an idealized version of myself in the mirror, rather than saying "Whoa, I think I need to do something." Body dysmorphia works both ways, seeing yourself as bigger or smaller than you are.

Fat acceptance is a bunch of angry obese women (more generally) who have no self-control and are involuntarily celibate, but who think that amounts to discrimination rather than the nature of being human. Somehow it's okay for women to let themselves go, but the male equivalent is still discriminated against in the way women say is not okay when it comes to them. Like male incels, they want a hot partner but aren't willing to put in any effort, whether that means exercise or developing a desirable personality or simply putting yourself out there and taking each rejection as criticism one can make constructive and instructive to one's own future. The dangerous part is considering your weight part of your identity.

Some things are repulsive to humans because it's innate. A young, morbidly obese woman is not a good investment to start a family with. First, they might not be able to get pregnant, or care for their children, and they might end up disabled early, which leads to poverty (in the West anyway). The offspring will end up obese because these incredibly obese people aren't that way because of a slow metabolism, but an inability (or unwillingness) to moderate caloric intake and children mimic what they see, which is why you see children under 10 with type 2 diabetes more and more often.

I accept my body but I'm not about to be complacent about it if I want a long life with quality in my winter years.

And I do see this as one-sided, because I have never seen a fat-acceptance video from a male "influencer." I do however see loads of obese men making the effort to become better through intense exercise and discipline (and I wish it were as easy for me now as it was 20 years ago).
 
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Discrimination against people because of their body shape is wrong and idiotic. However, the idea that morbid obesity is not a health hazard and that it is to be encouraged is lunacy. Some people have psychological and emotional problems and instead of helping them help themselves, these movements make a mockery out of the suffering.

Not just psychological and emotional, but some people really have physical issues... they are ill, and weight gain is a symptom of that illness.
 
Not just psychological and emotional, but some people really have physical issues... they are ill, and weight gain is a symptom of that illness.
Yeah and a person can have both. My wife was cheerleader thin in high school and was raped in college so she gained weight so she wouldn't be attractive anymore. About 20 years after we got married, we went to a local weight loss doctor (with his own book) and he put her on a diet that worked great for the first 60 lbs. Then the weight loss stopped so she lowered the calories more on her own and did start losing weight again. However when seeing a doctor for something else, it was noticed that her pulse was down in the 30s and she was sent to a heart specialist. The heart specialist said if she was older they would give her a pacemaker but at her age they don't do anything.

Well not surprisingly my wife quit dieting and her pulse went back up to her normal 70s. She recently got back to within 25 lbs. of her pre-diet high weight so figured she would go back to dieting only with not quite so few calories and she has lost about 8 lbs. but her pulse is already down in the 60s.
 
Not just psychological and emotional, but some people really have physical issues... they are ill, and weight gain is a symptom of that illness.
Absolutely! Which is why I don't think they (the fat acceptance advocates) should be lauded and enabled if therapies or other treatments are needed. I just can't stand to see another fat acceptance scolding video where the person is also stuffing their face while telling others they're "ableist" if others are not attracted to them. It seems like those who make these videos don't accept themselves, so they have to convince others to accept them.

My friends who are actually disabled and in wheelchairs don't think much of willful morbid obesity being a disability.
 
I think everyone is born into a certain type of body with defined characteristics. Some people are naturally slim, other more in the middle and others are on the heavy side. There is an element of genetics, nutrition (from an early age) and exercise too (from an early age) that contributes to how one ends up looking (plus perhaps environmental toxins too?).

The western diet of course hasn't helped in terms of weight especially with people being fed this from very early on. Separately, and I think this mostly applies to females, young girls tend to be less physically active than their male counterparts. Certainly, from my own experience, whilst I spent most of my break time at school out playing football pretty much daily, I didn't recall seeing girls out on the playground running and moving as much as the boys - especially as we got older too.

I think though that despite ones weight really, one has to be honest about the lifestyle they are living. Are they eating well, having some sort of physical activity etc. As long as one feels they are being reasonably healthy then what does it matter the weight 🤷. There are rugby and NFL players who are basically fat (but not mobidly obese) and no one can deny their athleticism and condition. In fact, they eat and train a certain way to maintain their body mass at the level it's at.

In terms of people being attracted to other people, people are attracted to whoever they are attracted to and there are many factors that contribute to attraction of which physical appearance is only one. In this arena people will simply do and go where their innate instincts tell them to and there's very little that intellectualism will do to change that. 🤷
 
Yeah and a person can have both. My wife was cheerleader thin in high school and was raped in college so she gained weight so she wouldn't be attractive anymore. About 20 years after we got married, we went to a local weight loss doctor (with his own book) and he put her on a diet that worked great for the first 60 lbs. Then the weight loss stopped so she lowered the calories more on her own and did start losing weight again. However when seeing a doctor for something else, it was noticed that her pulse was down in the 30s and she was sent to a heart specialist. The heart specialist said if she was older they would give her a pacemaker but at her age they don't do anything.

Well not surprisingly my wife quit dieting and her pulse went back up to her normal 70s. She recently got back to within 25 lbs. of her pre-diet high weight so figured she would go back to dieting only with not quite so few calories and she has lost about 8 lbs. but her pulse is already down in the 60s.
John, your wife didn't gain weight to make herself unattractive because of being raped. Afterwards, she may have stopped wearing makeup or fixing her hair or wore big clothes to hide her body. Being raped is such a shock in terms of a severe stressor that it can change a woman physiologically rapidly. Her weight gain and low blood pressure are because of this....I'd bet my life on it.

I am an example of 'just how much stress can the human body take?'. I've been thru so many traumas, tragedies and challenging life situations, that if I wrote them all down, it would be hard to believe. But the one that finally broke me was being drugged and raped....I was 52 years old....I was at a party after a golf outing, for christ's sake.

After that happened to me, my menstrual cycle stopped cold! Some may think, "Well yeah, but you were 52." My periods up to that point were regular and normal...every 28 days. I'll be 65 this year and my 16 month younger sister still has hers; my mum and gram continued to menstruate well into their 60s, also. I never went thru normal menopause because that incident stopped my cycle immediately.

Your sex hormones are made in your adrenals and the rape and the randomness of it, like I said broke me...broke my mind for sometime and definitely broke my body's proper functioning. I'm strongly suggesting you get your wife to an endocrinologist and have them check her adrenal, hypothalamusand pituitary glands....at the very least.

I didn't get good or effective help from doctors and therapists...God knows I tried but medicade doesn't allow for therapeutic methods and treatments which could have helped me...And I couldn't afford a functional medical doctor. Any improvement I had was due to my research and supplements, which only took me so far. Since then, I have no physical threshold against stress...Stress is everything to me...cold, heat, loud noises, humidity...I've lost endurance where I once was strong and could do much physically.
 
John, your wife didn't gain weight to make herself unattractive because of being raped. Afterwards, she may have stopped wearing makeup or fixing her hair or wore big clothes to hide her body. Being raped is such a shock in terms of a severe stressor that it can change a woman physiologically rapidly. Her weight gain and low blood pressure are because of this....I'd bet my life on it.

I am an example of 'just how much stress can the human body take?'. I've been thru so many traumas, tragedies and challenging life situations, that if I wrote them all down, it would be hard to believe. But the one that finally broke me was being drugged and raped....I was 52 years old....I was at a party after a golf outing, for christ's sake.

After that happened to me, my menstrual cycle stopped cold! Some may think, "Well yeah, but you were 52." My periods up to that point were regular and normal...every 28 days. I'll be 65 this year and my 16 month younger sister still has hers; my mum and gram continued to menstruate well into their 60s, also. I never went thru normal menopause because that incident stopped my cycle immediately.

Your sex hormones are made in your adrenals and the rape and the randomness of it, like I said broke me...broke my mind for sometime and definitely broke my body's proper functioning. I'm strongly suggesting you get your wife to an endocrinologist and have them check her adrenal, hypothalamusand pituitary glands....at the very least.

I didn't get good or effective help from doctors and therapists...God knows I tried but medicade doesn't allow for therapeutic methods and treatments which could have helped me...And I couldn't afford a functional medical doctor. Any improvement I had was due to my research and supplements, which only took me so far. Since then, I have no physical threshold against stress...Stress is everything to me...cold, heat, loud noises, humidity...I've lost endurance where I once was strong and could do much physically.
Certainly possible. I met my wife 7 or so years after she was in college and even way back then she would gain weight on diets that would lose a lot for me. My mom once asked if I was losing weight on purpose; I think she was worried I had cancer or something and when she found we were on a diet, she wanted to make sure I wasn't planning to lose any more. I was still quite above my college weight.

My wife's regular doctor does blood tests (she is on thyroid pills) but I doubt it's testing things like adrenal function (that would kind of need to be checked at different times during the day I would think). She also used to be on progesterone for medical reasons and still bleeds a little at times even though she hit menopause 7 or so years ago. Definitely something going on.
 
I recently watched a video by Sydney Watson about the topic that I think fits in this thread.


From what I can gather, it's not so much about fat acceptance, it's more about declaring someone else fat-phobic, which is an extension of the victim mentality based on race, sexual orientation and whatnot. It's yet another niche that actually takes the conversation that could be had about health in society very far away from where it could actually have an impact.
 
Thank you guys for sharing your comments and stories.

Yesterday I stumbled on dr. Fatima Cody Standford. She is all over the social networks after she was interviewed by 60 Minutes’ Lesley Stahl where she said that:

‘The number one cause of obesity is genetics,' Dr Cody said.

'That means if you are born to parents that have obesity, you have a 50 to 85 percent likelihood of having the disease yourself. Even with optimal diet, exercise, sleep management, stress management.’
And she is:

an obesity medicine physician scientist, educator, and policy maker at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School. She is a national and international sought after expert in obesity medicine who bridges the intersection of medicine, public health, policy, and disparities.

She receive many awards:

Upon completion of her MPH, Dr. Stanford received the Gold Congressional Award, the highest honor that Congress bestows upon America’s youth. Dr. Stanford has completed a medicine and media internship at the Discovery Channel. An American Medical Association (AMA) Foundation Leadership Award recipient in 2005, an AMA Paul Ambrose Award for national leadership among resident physicians in 2009, she was selected for the AMA Inspirational Physician Award in 2015. The American College of Physicians (ACP) selected her as the 2013 recipient of the Joseph E. Johnson Leadership Award and the Massachusetts ACP selected her for the Young Leadership Award in 2015. She is the 2017 recipient of the Harvard Medical School Amos Diversity Award and Massachusetts Medical Society Award for Women’s Health.
And she was appointed in president Joe Biden’s administration to be in 2025 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee.

Stanford is one of 20 doctors appointed to the committee, which will examine the relationship between diet and health through a “health equity lens,” factoring in socioeconomic status, race, ethnicity and culture, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) website, and provide recommendations to the USDA and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). She has claimed that doctors largely do not understand obesity and that many patients can’t simply lose weight through improved diet and exercise.

One of the reason I was searching about this subject "angry obese or morbid obese persons claiming that that they don't have to workout and eat less or healthier" because it seemed to me that there's must be some trigger (except everything else, state of society, economic situations, pandemic...) or idea that came from somewhere. I must say, I feel like conspiracy theorist🤭, writing this but I was wondering is this interview with dr. Fatima Cody Standford had impact on these people. I could easily imagine someone saw this and said: "Off course it's genetics and I can't do nothing to change my condition!"

One other thing that I find weird is that she said in video below that one of the factors in obesity is 20 percent of medications that doctors prescribe to the obese patient and in the same time she advocate using medication to solve obesity. (I think that interesting part start in 6:00 minute - Language if you wanna check out the video.)

 
Thank you guys for sharing your comments and stories.

It's another example of how every aspect of the western society, that is, science, medicine, philosophy, psychology, the educational system etc. have been corrupted and distorted through the leftist postmodern relativistic bidimensional ideas promoted by the system from the top down through the last few generations.

Personally, as everyone here, I stand by the principle that no one should be judged by their physical appearance, that's cruel and just inhumane. To me, the following discussion isn't related to the weight of a human being due to reasons i've wrote above.

The problem i have are the distorted messages related to education, science, diet, exercise, a healthy lifestyle, ect. that are being promoted from the top down in order to render the people weaker, more malleable and susceptible to manipulation and control.

A trend that is going on for a few dozens of years and nowadays we are seeing the putrid fruits in the individuals that got themselves infested by the leftist woke hive mind. That's pretty diabolical and devious I'd say.

Putting it in a simplistic way, what is being seen in the Western society nowadays is the result of the ongoimg ponerization process of every branch of society, an attempt to distort through wishful thinking the reality itself.

Edit: quotes correction
 
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The problem i have are the distorted messages related to education, science, diet, exercise, a healthy lifestyle, ect. that are being promoted from the top down in order to render the people weaker, more malleable and susceptible to manipulation and control.
Yes, and it takes the idea that people ought not to be shamed or judged because of their appearance, and twists it into the complete opposite extreme, where being overweight, for whatever reason is good, and if you think otherwise, then you're part of one of those "isms".

The trouble with this, to expand on something I said above, is that if the issue is genetic, or diet related, then the conversation that could be had about it is completely lost. And some people embrace this victimhood to such a degree, that they now wish to remain overweight, and are proud of it, which leads them to double down on practices that could continue to harm their genetics, through eating junk food and the like.

I am not saying that anyone should be ashamed of their weight, nor that they should not be accepting of who they are, but to jump to the other extreme, and convince themselves of their perfection is a terrible idea, even if they weren't overweight.
 
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