Are the moderators or administrators ever shocked

notanothermonday

Padawan Learner
Do you ever find yourselves shocked by what is going on or have you seen so much and read so much that you find nothing shocking?

I am still shocked by things eventhough many of them could have been predicted.
 
I am not numb. After a while it can be depressing to see the horrible things that occur on the planet every day, if one is paying attention. But I think shocks are very necessary. They are part of the Work.
 
Beau said:
After a while it can be depressing to see the horrible things that occur on the planet every day, if one is paying attention.
I think something that the news articles at SotT provides is also a secondary shock in how unknown they are. There's the horror of the subject matter itself and then there's the horror of the absence of knowledge about it - which perpetuates the initial horror. So these kinds of shocks will likely continue to exist as long as there is mass ignorance that allows them to happen, osit.
 
notanothermonday said:
Do you ever find yourselves shocked by what is going on or have you seen so much and read so much that you find nothing shocking?
We are less and less shocked, but it never stops being painful.

Some people react to shocks by shutting down and dissociating and trying to find something "pleasant." We have a very different philosophy about it. We know that we very much need to get over being shocked because when you are in a state of shock, your thinking processes stop and you are easily controlled and manipulated. That's why scare tactics used by the PTB work so well. People have become used to dissociating or have been made numb via televised violence and cruelty. It isn't "real," and it is experienced in a dissociated state anyway, so there is never any emotional connection.

We have learned that being shocked and learning to continue to function, to control the energy of the centers so that the emotional energy of the shock is not suppressed in any way and can be utilized creatively, allows one to develop abilities that are not otherwise available to the ordinary sleeping human.

Yeah, that means a LOT of suffering, and it is suffering that is chosen and conscious and utilized for the benefit of others.

But after awhile, with knowledge, the shocks become less and less "shocking" and one begins to function on this constant emotional empathy with the suffering of humanity, seeking always to find some way to alleviate it.

At this point in time, there is not much one can do to alleviate the suffering of humanity other than to share knowledge, to help others to stop being controlled by the shocks of horror that are created just to put humans in that "deer in the headlights" state.

Only after a period of actively exposing yourself to the shocks of REALITY do you begin to truly appreciate the work of Lobaczewski, especially when he writes about psychopathy:

Our natural world of concepts – based upon species instincts as described in an earlier chapter - strikes the psychopath as a nearly incomprehensible convention with no justification in their own psychological experience. They think that customs and principles of decency are a foreign convention invented and imposed by someone else, ("probably by priests") silly, onerous, sometimes even ridiculous. At the same time, however, they easily perceive the deficiencies and weaknesses of our natural language of psychological and moral concepts in a manner somewhat reminiscent of the attitude of a contemporary psychologist—except in caricature. [...]

In spite of their deficiencies in normal psychological and moral knowledge, they develop and then have at their disposal a knowledge of their own, something lacked by people with a natural world view. They learn to recognize each other in a crowd as early as childhood, and they develop an awareness of the existence of other individuals similar to them. They also become conscious of being different from the world of those other people surrounding them. They view us from a certain distance, like a para-specific variety. Natural human reactions - which often fail to elicit interest to normal people because they are considered self-evident - strike the psychopath as strange and, interesting, and even comical. They therefore observe us, deriving conclusions, forming their different world of concepts. They become experts in our weaknesses and sometimes effect heartless experiments. The suffering and injustice they cause inspire no guilt within them, since such reactions from others are simply a result of their being different and apply only to "those other" people they perceive to be not quite conspecific. Neither a normal person nor our natural world view can fully conceive nor properly evaluate the existence of this world of different concepts. [...]

When the human mind comes into contact with this new reality so different from any experiences encountered by a person raised in a society dominated by normal people, it releases psychophysiological shock symptoms in the human brain with a higher tonus of cortex inhibition and a stifling of feelings, which then sometimes gush forth uncontrollably. The mind then works more slowly and less keenly because the associative mechanisms have become inefficient. Especially when a person has direct contact with psychopathic representatives of the new rule, who use their specific experience so as to traumatize the minds of the "others" with their own personalities, his mind succumbs to a state of short-term catatonia. Their humiliating and arrogant techniques, brutal paramoralizations, and so forth deaden his thought processes and his self-defense capabilities, and their divergent experiential method anchors in his mind. In the presence of this kind of phenomenon, any moralizing evaluation of a person's behavior in such a situation thus becomes inaccurate at best.

Only once these unbelievably unpleasant psychological states have passed, thanks to rest in benevolent company, is it possible to reflect, always a difficult and painful process, or to become aware that one's mind and common sense have been fooled by something which cannot fit into the normal human imagination.
There are, of course, people who are more resistant to having their minds shocked into catatonia and they are able to help others during periods of great crisis and peril. I have the feeling that such a period is rapidly approaching and the more people there are prepared to be able to "keep a cool head" and see what is really going on and see through deceptions while others are "frozen in the headlights," the better prepared humanity will be to pass through this collective "Dark Night of the Soul."

And it does no good to just read a book about it and say, "yeah, yeah, I know... there are psychopaths... I've got a handle on it." In fact, you will see a few posts in the forum here by just such ignorant people who really do not have a clue because they have never been there up close and personal. And they think that reading about it (a few books) is gonna do it. Guess again.

Lobaczewski said:
If a person with a normal instinctive substratum and basic intelligence has already heard and read about such a system of ruthless autocratic rule "based on a fanatical ideology", he feels he has already formed an opinion on the subject.

However, direct confrontation with the phenomenon will inevitably produce in him the feeling of intellectual helplessness. All his prior imaginings prove to be virtually useless; they explain next to nothing. This provokes a nagging sensation that he and the society in which he was educated were quite naive.

Anyone capable of accepting this bitter void with an awareness of his own nescience, which would do a philosopher proud, can also find an orientation path within this deviant world. However, egotistically protecting his world view from disintegrative disillusionment and attempting to combine them with observations from this new divergent reality, only reaps mental chaos. The latter has produced unnecessary conflicts and disillusionment with the new rulership in some people; others have subordinated themselves to the pathological reality.

One of the differences observed between a normally resistant person and somebody who has undergone a transpersonification is that the former is better able to survive this disintegrating cognitive void, whereas the latter fills the void with the pathologic propaganda material without sufficient controls.
Transpersonification is when the pathological material of the psychopath or propaganda anchors in the mind of the individual and they "incorporate" it and are "transformed" by it into a tool of psychopaths. You can see the effects of this process in the thread about circumcision where "efields" has been, apparently, "taken over." Lobaczewski wrote an interesting description of this process which you might like to read for comparison:

May the reader please imagine a very large hall in an old Gothic university building. Many of us gathered there early in our studies in order to listen to the lectures of outstanding philosophers and scientists. We were herded back there – under threat - the year before graduation in order to listen to the indoctrination lectures which recently had been introduced.

Someone nobody knew appeared behind the lectern and informed us that he would now be the professor. His speech was fluent, but there was nothing scientific about it: he failed to distinguish between scientific and ordinary concepts and treated borderline imaginings as though it were wisdom that could not be doubted. For ninety minutes each week, he flooded us with naive, presumptuous paralogistics and a pathological view of human reality. We were treated with contempt and poorly controlled hatred. Since fun-poking could entail dreadful consequences, we had to listen attentively and with the utmost gravity.

The grapevine soon discovered this person's origins. He had come from a Cracow suburb and attended high school, although no one knew if he had graduated. Anyway, this was the first time he had crossed university portals, and as a professor, at that!

"You can't convince anyone this way!" we whispered to each other. "It's actually propaganda directed against themselves." But after such mind-torture, it took a long time for someone to break the silence.

We studied ourselves, since we felt something strange had taken over our minds and something valuable was leaking away irretrievably. The world of psychological reality and moral values seemed suspended as if in a chilly fog. Our human feeling and student solidarity lost their meaning, as did patriotism and our old established criteria. So we asked each other, "are you going through this too"? Each of us experienced this worry about his own personality and future in his own way. Some of us answered the questions with silence. The depth of these experiences turned out to be different for each individual.

We thus wondered how to protect ourselves from the results of this "indoctrination".Teresa D. made the first suggestion: Let's spend a weekend in the mountains. It worked. Pleasant company, a bit of joking, then exhaustion followed by deep sleep in a shelter, and our human personalities returned, albeit with a certain remnant. Time also proved to create a kind of psychological immunity, although not with everyone. Analyzing the psychopathic characteristics of the "professor's" personality proved another excellent way of protecting one's own psychological hygiene.

You can just imagine our worry, disappointment, and surprise when some colleagues we knew well suddenly began to change their world view; their thought-patterns furthermore reminded us of the "professor's" chatter. Their feelings, which had just recently been friendly, became noticeably cooler, although not yet hostile. Benevolent or critical student arguments bounced right of them. They gave the impression of possessing some secret knowledge; we were only their former colleagues, still believing what those "professors of old" had taught us. We had to be careful of what we said to them. These former colleagues soon joined the Party.

Who were they, what social groups did they come from, what kind of students and people were they? How and why did they change so much in less than a year? Why did neither I nor a majority of my fellow students succumb to this phenomenon and process? Many such questions fluttered through our heads then. It was in those times, from those questions, observations and attitudes that the idea was born that this phenomenon could be objectively studied and understood; an idea whose greater meaning crystallized with time.

Many of us newly graduated psychologists participated in the initial observations and reflections, but most crumbled away in the face of material or academic problems. Only a few of that group remained; so the author of this book may be the last of the Mohicans.

It was relatively easy to determine the environments and origins of the people who succumbed to this process, which I then called "transpersonification". They came from all social groups, including aristocratic and fervently religious families, and caused a break in our student solidarity to the order of some 6 %. The remaining majority suffered varying degrees of personality disintegration which gave rise to individual searching for the values necessary to find ourselves again; the results were varied and sometimes creative.

Even then, we had no doubts as to the pathological nature of this "transpersonification" process, which ran similar but not identical in all cases. The duration of the results of this phenomenon also varied. Some of these people later became zealots. Others later took advantage of various circumstances to withdraw and re-establish their lost links to the society of normal people. They were replaced. The only constant value of the new social system was the magic number of 6 %.

We tried to evaluate the talent level of those colleagues who had succumbed to this personality-transformation process, and reached the conclusion that, on average, it was slightly lower than the average of the student population. Their lesser resistance obviously resided in other bio-psychological features which were most probably qualitatively heterogeneous.

I found that I had to study subjects bordering on psychology and psychopathology in order to answer the questions arising from our observations; scientific neglect in these areas proved an obstacle difficult to overcome. At the same time, someone guided by special knowledge apparently vacated the libraries of anything we could have found on the topic; books were indexed, but not physically present.

Analyzing these occurrences now in hindsight, we could say that the "professor" was dangling bait over our heads, based on specific psychological knowledge. He knew in advance that he would fish out amenable individuals, and even how to do it, but the limited numbers disappointed him. The transpersonification process generally took hold only when an individual's instinctive substratum was marked by pallor or certain deficits. To a lesser extent, it also worked among people who manifested other deficiencies in which the state provoked within them was partially impermanent, being largely the result of psychopathological induction.

This knowledge about the existence of susceptible individuals and how to work on them will continue being a tool for world conquest as long as it remains the secret of such "professors". When it becomes skillfully popularized science, it will help nations to develop immunity. But none of us knew this at the time.

Nevertheless, we must admit that in demonstrating the properties of this process to us in such a way as to force us into in-depth experience, the professor helped us understand the nature of the phenomenon in a larger scope than many a true scientific researcher participating in this work in other less direct ways.
Lobaczewski also provides a metaphor for how to study Evil in our Reality:

As a youth, I read a book about a naturalist wandering through the Amazon-basin wilderness. At some moment a small animal fell from a tree onto the nape of his neck, clawing his skin painfully and sucking his blood. The biologist cautiously removed it -- without anger, since that was its form of feeding -- and proceeded to study it carefully. This story stubbornly stuck in my mind during those very difficult times when a vampire fell onto our necks, sucking the blood of an unhappy nation.

Maintaining the attitude of a naturalist, while attempting to track the nature of macrosocial phenomenon in spite of all adversity, insures a certain intellectual distance and better psychological hygiene in the face of horrors that might otherwise be difficult to contemplate. Such an attitude also slightly increases the feeling of safety and furnishes an insight that this very method may help find a certain creative solution. This requires strict control of the natural, moralizing reflexes of revulsion, and other painful emotions that the phenomenon provokes in any normal person when it deprives him of his joy of life and personal safety, ruining his own future and that of his nation. Scientific curiosity therefore becomes a loyal ally during such times.

Bottom line is, we are rarely shocked any more, and we continue to study the phenomenon. But at the same time, there are the victims for whom we weep.
 
Lobaczewski said:
Maintaining the attitude of a naturalist, while attempting to track the nature of macrosocial phenomenon in spite of all adversity, insures a certain intellectual distance and better psychological hygiene in the face of horrors that might otherwise be difficult to contemplate. Such an attitude also slightly increases the feeling of safety and furnishes an insight that this very method may help find a certain creative solution. This requires strict control of the natural, moralizing reflexes of revulsion, and other painful emotions that the phenomenon provokes in any normal person when it deprives him of his joy of life and personal safety, ruining his own future and that of his nation.
Even though I am improving this process for myself I know that this is a specific area where I still need to do allot of work! Rereading it I realize how I still too often lose my cool (i.e. with such individuals as efields). Thanks for pointing it out once again.
 
Laura, thanks for this Lobaczewski clip.
Lobaczewski said:
When the human mind comes into contact with this new reality so different from any experiences encountered by a person raised in a society dominated by normal people, it releases psychophysiological shock symptoms in the human brain with a higher tonus of cortex inhibition and a stifling of feelings, which then sometimes gush forth uncontrollably. The mind then works more slowly and less keenly because the associative mechanisms have become inefficient. Especially when a person has direct contact with psychopathic representatives of the new rule, who use their specific experience so as to traumatize the minds of the “others� with their own personalities, his mind succumbs to a state of short-term catatonia. Their humiliating and arrogant techniques, brutal paramoralizations, and so forth deaden his thought processes and his self-defense capabilities, and their divergent experiential method anchors in his mind. In the presence of this kind of phenomenon, any moralizing evaluation of a person’s behavior in such a situation thus becomes inaccurate at best.

Only once these unbelievably unpleasant psychological states have passed, thanks to rest in benevolent company, is it possible to reflect, always a difficult and painful process, or to become aware that one’s mind and common sense have been fooled by something which cannot fit into the normal human imagination.
This bit of the text really hits it, and I can say from personal experience, that no amount of reading about the subject can actually prepare you for the total trauma of the moment. It is very difficult to comprehend the complete surrender of control that happens: physically, emotionally and intellectually. especially having read up huge amounts on the subject beforehand. one would think this would make you immune, but no!
I think Castaneda's descriptions of don Juan's dealing with the 'petty tyrant' are a great illustration of the concept that it has to be actually tackled and overcome 'in the flesh' in order to learn from it and use it to acheive mastery over oneself. and actually, if you don't perish in the process, that these kind of encounters have the potential for very tough lessons to be learnt. so perhaps they are essential to one's development beyond a certain point?
 
Laura said:
Some people react to shocks by shutting down and dissociating and trying to find something "pleasant."
This is the real reason people don't like objectivity- it is too unpleasant.
Laura said:
There are, of course, people who are more resistant to having their minds shocked into catatonia and they are able to help others during periods of great crisis and peril. I have the feeling that such a period is rapidly approaching and the more people there are prepared to be able to "keep a cool head" and see what is really going on and see through deceptions while others are "frozen in the headlights," the better prepared humanity will be to pass through this collective "Dark Night of the Soul."
What a great description of the way of the seer. You are really hitting the mark with your recent posts Laura- very insightful.
Lobaczewski said:
Maintaining the attitude of a naturalist, while attempting to track the nature of macrosocial phenomenon in spite of all adversity, insures a certain intellectual distance and better psychological hygiene in the face of horrors that might otherwise be difficult to contemplate. Such an attitude also slightly increases the feeling of safety and furnishes an insight that this very method may help find a certain creative solution. This requires strict control of the natural, moralizing reflexes of revulsion, and other painful emotions that the phenomenon provokes in any normal person when it deprives him of his joy of life and personal safety, ruining his own future and that of his nation.
Now I see why the science of ponerology has not been widely studied (and given its importance- it should be). You have to have an extremely strong will and self-control, otherwise you'd go insane.
 
Kesdjan said:
You have to have an extremely strong will and self-control, otherwise you'd go insane.
Considering how the definition of "sane" is continuously being changed from one pole of "rational" to the other pole of "rationalization", I'd venture to modify your edict thusly:


"You have to have an extremely strong will and self-control, otherwise you'll end up sane."


Cheers.
 
Well, I cannot improve on Laura's response (shock) - but I would add that, for me, personally, it hurts, a lot. Every single day, it hurts - but it clearly doesn't hurt me nearly as much as it does the people going through it right this second. So, I can hurt for them - deeply - that is one thing I can do. The other thing I can do is to fight against the apathy and sleep around me every single day - that struggle never stops - but that is another 'very least' thing I can do.

To not do it would be to die - I've died enough in this lifetime - time to fight for creation - for life - for empathy and conscience; for everything human in humanity. At least - that's how it seem to me. the 'shocks' tend to grow fewer, but the pain - the sorrow - that never seems to lose its strength.
 
I'm kind of ricochetting this off myself. I am not a moderator or administrator but shocks seem to take alot of forms. There are the political kinds http://www.bushflash.com/14.html

The nature of the situation kinds of shocks:
"They [the sorcerers of ancient Mexico]discovered that we have a companion for life. We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don't do so." Quoted from: http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=609

There's also the dreaded famine stuff http://www.dickeatsbush.com/hunger.htm

going on daily, outside of the war(s) http://www.dickeatsbush.com/tears.htm

or the occasionally obvious flase flag stuff (couldn't find the image of the guy with the star of david tattoo on his kneck/article, while dressed as a 'terrorist'). This seems more often not occasional to me, cause I think it is more daily but that is only opinion (9 of 10 terror attacks reported to start a civil war). We have taken over their media a couple years back in Iraq if I recall correctly.

And then there are the kinds (which for me has yet to end) where your completely alseep one day and you see something http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/ that seems to affect your reality in what I imagine can only be described as 'tumbling down the rabbit hole' fighting and clawing to try and get a hold of something that I can pretend has some solidity.

It was that initial shock (pentagon strike) that started my ascent ?down? the rabbit hole. I don't think what I believe the SOTT's team provides actually ever stops proving shocks.
 
Lobaczewski wrote:

The transpersonification process generally took hold only when an individual’s instinctive substratum was marked by pallor or certain deficits. To a lesser extent, it also worked among people who manifested other deficiencies in which the state provoked within them was partially impermanent, being largely the result of psychopathological induction.
This is interesting considering how this transpersonalization process disassociates us from (quite literally) our senses that point to a very real threat of takeover and blinds us to the facts and terror of the situation. This makes me think of what Gurdjieff said of the 'disease of tomorrow' where we are lulled into a kind of complacent somnambulance by these spellbinding ponergenic influences and we literally lose the 'sense' of any instinctive threats that stand right in our midst. We say 'it will get better tomorrow' or 'tomorrow they will change' while ignoring the factual information (which includes what our instinct tells us) ...here now.

Animals will struggle with an enemy but they will not resist a quiet death. They cannot make a distinction between death and sleep. But a normal human being has a mind and the mind will always resist a quiet death. The mind will want that 'one last hour' and it will keep the body awake, shock it, and keep the instinct to survive going for that 'one hour more,' unless of course the mind has been ponerized, put to sleep, and taken over by ponergenic influences. Then, like the animal, it sees no difference between sleep and death and quietly gives into a quiet death without a fight. Why fight now when things will get better tomorrow? (so says the spellbinders who weave the web of psychopathological induction.)

Makes me think of what Gurdjieff said in 'The last hour of life' and how this 'disease of tomorrow' effects the instinctive substratum so that we literally lose touch with our senses.

Full text at: http://www(dot)searchwithin.org/download/last_hour_life.pdf

From the Cassiopaea Glossary:

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=229

Castaneda, who in many things echoes Gurdjieff, although the cultural context is quite different, speaks extensively of death. The warrior lives so that he may perform his last dance in the face of death. Death is a sort of advisor that may be consulted to bring immediacy and focus to life. Gurdjieff also speaks of the last hour of life in terms which may well have been picked up by Castaneda. The last hour is described by Gurdjieff as follows, excerpted from a lecture by him:
'Freedom is worth a million times more than liberation. The free man, even in slavery, remains a master of himself.
[…]
From the moment of conception we are living on borrowed time. Living in this world you have to feel death each second, so settle all your life affairs, even in your last hour. But how can anyone know exactly his last hour? For the sense of security make up your things with nature and yourself in every hour given to you, then you will never be met unprepared.
[…]
Ask yourself who will be in difficulty if you die like a dog. At the moment of death you have to be wholly aware of yourself and feel that you have done everything possible to use all, within your abilities, in this life which was given to you.
[…]
A real man is one who could take from life everything that was valuable in it, and say :'And now I can die'. We have to try to live your lives so that we could say any day :'Today I can die and not be sorry about anything'.
[…]
When I was young I learned to prepare fragrances. I learned to extract from life it's essence, its most subtle qualities. Search in everything the most valuable, learn to separate the fine from the coarse. One who has learned how to extract the essence, the most important from each moment of life, has reached a sense on quality.
He is able to do with the world something that can not be done by just anybody.
[…]
It could be that in the last moments of your life you will not have the choice where and with whom to be, but you will have a choice to decide how fully you will live them. The ability to take the valuable from life - is the same as to take from the food, air and the impressions the substances needed to build up your higher bodies. If you want to take from your life the most valuable for yourself, it has to be for the good of the higher; for yourself it is enough to leave just a little. To work on yourself for the good of others is a smart way to receive the best from life for yourself. If you will not be satisfied with the last hour of your life, you will not be happy about the whole of your life. To die means to come through something which is impossible to repeat again. To spend your precious time in nothing means to deprive yourself the opportunity to extract from life the most valuable. […]' [End quote]
 
Beautiful post, kenlee.

I was reminded of a movie I saw long ago, called "Circle of Iron".


Saw it when I was young, and it stuck. Saw it years later (on a intuitive urging) and it seemed like a 'B' movie, if you know what I mean.

Cheers.
 
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