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[Will Jimmy Carter's Book Liberate the Palestinians?]

Will Jimmy Carter's Book Liberate the Palestinians?
Perhaps a more important question is:
Will Jimmy Carter's Book Liberate Any Americans?

[…]What is interesting to note in the Jimmy Carter/Zionist Israel brouhaha is how the former President, like so many others before him, is being subjected to an intense campaign of vilification by Israeli apologists in this country[…]What his critics don’t understand is this: Carter belongs to America. He is one of us! They, the Carter bashers, are not only deeply resented, but are being seen by growing numbers as arrogant, spiteful and shameless shills for a foreign power….

Of all people to try to slander and label as ‘anti-Semitic’, Jimmy Carter is the LAST political figure any healthy minded person would choose as a target! Will that blatant lie/utter absurdity wake anybody up? You know, I think it will.

The good news — if you can call anything these days by that label — is that it’s a certainty that, sooner or later, the psychopathic Masters of Neo-Con Deception will get so inebriated with their illusion of absolute power that they will lose all touch with reality, overreach themselves, and bring their house of cards down upon their own heads. What’s happening right now, for example, with Carter‘s book (and with Mearsheimer and Walt‘s paper last year — you can‘t easily discount professors from Harvard and U of Chicago as lunatic lightweights), is a tiny bit of that self-destruct process. It infuses Hughes’ article with a ray of much needed hope. There is, of course, no guarantee that the psychopaths won’t also take the whole planet down with them.

In the meantime — whatever the global outcome may be— it’s fascinating to watch the cracks in the façade appear — and to perhaps help them along a little with the crowbar (or perhaps the bulldozer!) of truth!

So, following one of Hughes’ references to Norman Finkelstein’s site, I found a link from there to a very interesting page entitled “JIMMY CARTER: Responses to his APARTHEID book."

http:(slash)(slash)stand(no space here)withus(dot)com(slash)news_post.asp?NPI=1051

JIMMY CARTER: Responses to his APARTHEID book
Posted: 12/7/2006 5:08:00 PM
Author: […]
Source: http:(slash)(slash)stand(no space here)withus(dot)com(slash)

Dear Friends of Israel,

Jimmy Carter is traveling around the country to promote his new book.

We have collected a variety of responses to Carters book, for you to read and print out in order to educate the community around you. IMPORTANT RESPONSE MATERIAL HAS BEEN POSTED […] under the FLYERS section. Pick your favorite articles from these choices and print out, take to his local book signings, bring friends with you....distribute this and please TAKE A STAND!

[…]is counting on YOU challenge misinformation with education.
Thank you in advance!
The […] Board of Directors and Staff

Along the top border of the page, click the “flyers"  tab, and you will be amazed!

There are 160 — that’s right, I said one hundred and sixty — professional with fancygraphics PDF flyer templates there to be used in flooding the campus of your choice with a pro-Zionist viewpoint.

Apart from (1) being a treasure trove for propaganda analyzing junkies like myself, they are (2) another piece of evidence to make the what-elephant-in-the-living-room Israel Lobby more visible to John Q Public — for surely these flyer folks are very well-funded and have WAY too much time to think up mischief than is good for them, and (3) the flyer examples might give those who were thinking of making some SOTT flyers / mailers some ideas, or perhaps even some themes to rebut.

I enclose the entire list of subjects covered, just in case anyone wants to see if their favorite subject has a Zionist party line circumscribing it; and I also include the numbers of different flyers per subject, because that number may be an indication of how important a given topic is perceived by the SpinMeisters.

BTW, Jimmy Carter’s book has the second largest total of flyers created to “refute" it!  Way to go, Jimmy!

14  on“JIMMY CARTER: Responding to his Apartheid Book"
2   on “Anti-Semitism"
3   on “Charters of Anti-Israel Organizations"
6   on “Hezbollah"
1   on “PM Ariel Sharon — Timeline"
2   on “Munich"
1   on “Easy Basic Points"
3   on “Invest with Israel"
3   on “Historical"
1   on “Zionism"
3   on “Incitement / Misinformation"
12 on “Terror Prevention Fence"
2   on “Christian Persecution in the Middle East"
11 on “Human Rights"
17 on "Suicide Bombing / Indoctrination of Children"
1   on “MECA (Middle East Children's Alliance)"
2   on “Palestinians Use UN Ambulances"
4   on “Rachel Corrie"
1   on “Jenin"
1   on “Demoliltions"
6   on “Divestment"
3   on “Apartheid"
2   on “Genocide"
2   on “Gay Rights"
2   on “UN Resolution 242"
2   on “Israel's Diversity is its Strength"
4   on “Maps and Size Comparisons"
6   on “Arafat and the Intifada"
2   on “Israel’s Accomplishments"
4   on “Terrorism"
1   on “Israel Wants Peace"
1   on “Checkpoints"
1   on “Fair Debate on Campus"
9   in Spanish
9   in French
9   in Hebrew
7   in Arabic
____________________
160 total PDF flyers

Apart from (1) being a treasure trove for propaganda analyzing junkies like myself, they are (2) another piece of evidence to make the what-elephant-in-the-living-room Israel Lobby more visible to John Q Public — for surely these flyer folks are very well-funded and have WAY too much time to think up mischief than is good for them, and (3) the flyer examples might give those who were thinking of making some SOTT flyers / mailers some ideas, or perhaps even some themes to rebut.

Absolutely amazing!! But for me, what is amazing, is that they do all this right out in public where anybody could find it and see exactly what they are up to.  Obviously, their confidence that it won't matter - that they are "on top" and can justify what they are doing with slick language and clever psy-ops.  Notice this on their "mission page":

StandWithUs is an international education organization that ensures that Israel's side of the story is told in communities, campuses, libraries, the media and churches through brochures, speakers and conferences.

Founded in 2001 in response to the second Intifada and the misinformation that surrounded the conflict, SWU now has offices in Los Angeles, New York, Israel and Michigan.

They have sure made certain that the Palestinian side is NEVER told; how dare Jimmy Carter stand up and tell it???

Yes, they are well-funded and we are not.  I hope that the understanding of where this world is going to end up if something isn't done - and soon - will motivate people to stand up against this more than money ever would.

[Alan Dershowitz Exposed: What if a Harvard Student Did This?]

I started reading some of the links from Finkelstein's site and there  is this, describing the "facts" that such as the "standwithus" crowd must be using to persuade people of the veracity of their position:

Alan Dershowitz Exposed: What if a Harvard Student Did This?

Editor's note: For more documentation see Appendix I of Beyond Chutzpah. Finkelstein used Harvard's own style manual, used to teach Harvard students, that can be obtained online here: Writing With Sources. See also: Crimson Cuts Columnist for Lifting Material (10.27.2006, The Harvard Crimson, By ANTON S. TROIANOVSKI, Crimson Staff Writer)

In the introduction to The Case for Israel, Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School asserts that his account is supported by "facts and figures, some of which will surprise those who get their information from biased sources" (p. 2).  Yet, the evidence Dershowitz adduces will surprise no one familiar with the most notorious source of historical bias on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict ever published in the English language.  The charts below document Dershowitz's wholesale lifting of source material from Joan Peters's monumental hoax, From Time Immemorial.  

Dershowitz not only copies Peters shamelessly, but knowingly does so from a book serious scholars have uniformly condemned.  (For details on the Peters hoax, see Norman G. Finkelstein, Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict, and Yehoshua Porath, "Mrs. Peters's Palestine," The New York Review of Books, 16 January 1986.)  He is effectively no different from a professor lifting sources wholesale from a leading Holocaust revisionist in a book on the Holocaust.  

On a note both humorous and pathetic, Peters, in From Time Immemorial and claiming to be inspired by George Orwell, coins the term "turnspeak" to signal the inversion of reality (pp. 173, 402).  Dershowitz, apparently confounded by his massive borrowings from Peters, credits the term "turnspeak" to Orwell, accusing critics of Israel of "deliberately using George Orwell's 'turnspeak'" (p. 57) and "Orwellian turnspeak" (p. 153).  

Is this scandalous scholarship, or is it plagiarism, or is it both?

Norman G. Finkelstein

17 on "Suicide Bombing / Indoctrination of Children"

This is a HOT issue with the Zionists. From my arguments with my Zio-brainwashed peers on campus and online, THIS is THE issue that they seem to raise the most. Then, the online crowd follows up linking to YouTube and GoogleVideo home-made videos that show children with AK's and bombs strapped to their chests, claiming, "IS THIS THE SIDE YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR?!" They usually bring this up as a response to a flood of FACTS that I can present that they can't handle...

This, of course, strikes an EMOTIONAL cord with listeners and readers of the discussion (no matter the FACTS of the situation on the ground, totally forgetting the Facts that I presented, and without asking the relevant questions) and they subsequently follow up with such comments as, "That's horrible! Those "Islamo-fascists" are cruel! They have no regards to human life! All they care about is their Jihad! etc, etc..."

So, yes - the above has been VERY true in my experience. I would be glad to help the Signs team gather up relevant facts to COUNTER this Zionist claim and others, make snazzy and eye-catching (and down-to-Earth) posters, etc. Count me in, because the ignorance of my peers is REALLY starting to get to me...

[Polish Scouting Association]

Then, the online crowd follows up linking to YouTube and GoogleVideo home-made videos that show children with AK's and bombs strapped to their chests, claiming, "IS THIS THE SIDE YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR?!"

Frankly, I do not understand what is your problem. Look at this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadenza/231259765/

Do you see the armed kid there? This is to commemorate Warsaw uprising against German occupation of Poland during WWII

or read this about these times:

http://www.ww2.pl/The,underground,home,army,25.html

In particular:

Home Army

During the night of September 26, 1939--a day before the surrender of Warsaw--General Michał Karaszewicz-Tokarzewski received an order from the Commander-in-Chief of the Polish army (at the time interned in Romania) to create an underground home army.

At first, the underground movement was called Służba Zwycięstwu  Polski (SZP – Polish Victory Service); later it was renamed to Związek Walki  Zbrojnej (ZWZ - Union for Armed Struggle); but beginning  in February 1942, it received the name by which it would be forever since  known– Armia Krajowa (AK – Home Army).
....
Parallel to the official army there emerged military units of political parties, conspiracies based upon social organizations (e.g. upon the Fire Brigades emerged Skała, or “the Rock� ) and youth associations (e.g. Szare Szeregi, or “the Grey Ranks� , based upon the Związek Harcerstwa Polskiego, or the “Polish Scouting Association� ).

Or read here:

http://www.warsawuprising.com/photos.htm

CHILDREN Warsaw's children shared the hardships and horrors of everyday life. Many children, especially within the Gray Ranks (war-time name of the Polish Scouting) distributed mail, relayed messages, and fought fires; some even became line solders.

Children, youth, those who care, were usually actively fighting against occupation in such times. What is strange about it?

This is a HOT issue with the Zionists. From my arguments with my Zio-brainwashed peers on campus and online, THIS is THE issue that they seem to raise the most. Then, the online crowd follows up linking to YouTube and GoogleVideo home-made videos that show children with AK's and bombs strapped to their chests, claiming, "IS THIS THE SIDE YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR?!" They usually bring this up as a response to a flood of FACTS that I can present that they can't handle...

The really sad thing is that these people have been driven to this by the Zionish regime.  When everything you ever had is gone, when those you love are dead, and when you have nothing left to eat but dirt, this is all that is left.  The one last thing that you can do to get back at those that have put you in this hell.  there is nothing left to live for.  

In case you haven't read this thread, here is the link:  

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4117

It talks about this very point that you have brought up.  You may have read it already, though.

That children grow up thinking that they need to take up arms to defend themselves, their homes, their families, is a horrible situation.  As Ark pointed out, so it has always been in countries occupied by invaders.  

Again we see that the twisted, bizarro world Zionist perspective is being propagandized until some people actually start thinking in the same, twisted way.

The really sad thing is that these people have been driven to this by the Zionish regime.  When everything you ever had is gone, when those you love are dead, and when you have nothing left to eat but dirt, this is all that is left.  The one last thing that you can do to get back at those that have put you in this hell.  there is nothing left to live for.

You are exactly right. Ark and Laura, historical precedent of events not so long ago (but easily and conveniently forgotten by the pro-Zionists), all show this as a horrible but not-out-of-the-ordinary thing for children to take up the fight against an invader. Any sensible person would do the same, osit, if put in that situation, where one has literally nothing left to lose...

What I was trying to point out in my post, albeit being a bit emotional at the time because a.saccus's post really "hit home" for me and my experiences with this issue, is that pro-Zionists cleverly twist the BRAVERY and plight of these oppressed peoples into something to be emotionally revolting and un-usual by outside people, who are looking in at this conflict.

They put evil-associated labels on this - "terrorism" and "Islamo-fascism" and "Jihad" - and by doing so they effectively cause observers to forget the CONTEXT of the situation, the "why" and "how", thus removing all "humanity" and empathy from anyone's (on the outside) association with the Palestinian people.

I hope that made more sense

[and in the way Israel activists want them to be seen.]

Please Note:  My apologies to all for the lateness of this response, but though I finished it at about 2:00 PM this afternoon, I couldn’t access the forum to post. After frantic emails, rebooting, virus scans, spam scans, unsuccessful password change attempts and general all around hair pulling, I suddenly -- quite unintentionally, and I don‘t know how I got there -- came upon a window that said I was still logged on and that I had been logged ON since 2:00AM! That's when I went to bed…??!!

Does anyone know what I did, or have similar problems themselves? I am pretty careful about signing off, or so I think. I have recently started using Mozilla FireFox, which I think is wonderful, but there have been at least four occasions where I have found myself in password limbo.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[…]I would be glad to help the Signs team gather up relevant facts to COUNTER this Zionist claim and others, make snazzy and eye-catching (and down-to-Earth) posters, etc. Count me in, because the ignorance of my peers is REALLY starting to get to me…

I believe the possible poster-making was discussed in
this thread.

17 on "Suicide Bombing / Indoctrination of Children"

This is a HOT issue with the Zionists. From my arguments with my Zio-brainwashed peers on campus and online, THIS is THE issue that they seem to raise the most.

Yes, "brainwashing" is exactly the right word. Or perhaps "Zionizing" after the usage in car polish "simonizing"?

While it was only an assumption on my part that the volume of material prepared about an issue should be an indicator of the amount of effort devoted to "advocating" that issue, it‘s so much better to have a factual confirmation from someone on the scene like you that such activity actually is taking place. Thanks for your information.

They usually bring this up as a response to a flood of FACTS that I can present that they can't handle…

As you may suspect, their reaction is not just some ad hoc response at the local watering hole, but a planned and deliberate strategy for victory in debate and in policy, carried on at every level of American society: in Congress, in the Media, e.g., the recent bashing of President Carter, and most importantly, on campus. You are, to use a possibly dated but still effective idiom, “where the action is". The molding is always attempted upon the young -- probably due, no doubt, to some Game Theory principle of maximizing their investment: in the normal order of things, old farts like me will probably die off sooner than a younger person would.

If you haven’t had the chance yet to glance at the World Union of Jewish Students Hasbara Handbook website
HERE, you might want to check it out. Not only will it illuminate some of your campus experiences — which would be wonderful to hear about — but you might derive considerable practical benefit in your future encounters with los zionistas.

WJUS Hasbara calls what they’re doing “Israel Advocacy“, but “advocacy" in this context is a blatant misnomer: what they are doing is outright sophistry and rhetorical manipulation; to be used upon those (mainly young people) who believe they’re engaging in a genuine dialogue or debate, but are really being set up and led down the garden path.

You are probably not dealing with those who are seeking the truth of the matter and who will discuss the question fairly with you, but those who

--have an agenda to push: they call it “Neutralizing Negativity" or “Pushing Positivity“ (see the Hasbara Handbook on PDF page 15); in other words, their goal is manipulation, not truth.

--who are “setting the agenda":

The person who sets the agenda will usually win the debate.[…] activists get to determine what to talk about,[…] Being proactive keeps the right issues in the public eye, and in the way Israel activists want them to be seen. It is much easier to get Palestinian activists defending Arafat against charges of being a corrupt terrorist than it is to explain to disinterested students that Ariel Sharon didn’t kill anybody at Sabra and Chatilla(which of course he didn’t).

That final parenthetical remark always gets me. Even the PTB can’t be sure that such a blatant lie will be believed without constant and mind-numbing reiteration and reinforcing. And just who are those “disinterested students" who suddenly appear? Might they not be people who are actually seeking the truth of the matter? Dangerous hombres those truth seekers...

And notice the concern -- expressed over and over again through the Handbook -- with appearances, with maintaining a façade. You don’t need to do that if you’re telling the truth, now do you?

Does any of this sound familiar?

--who are concerned with scoring points, and learn the best times and the best situations to do this, not finding out the truth(page 18); "terrorism" is a big "point" for them (page 94)

--who believe that pictures are more potent than words(page 28); (hence all the YouTubing and VideoGoogling;)

--who know the value and the uses of FEAR:

When a speaker warns that the consequences of ignoring his message is likely to be war, conflict, personal suffering, and so forth, they are manipulating fear to advance their message. Listeners have deep-seated fears of violence and disorder, which can be tapped into by creating false dichotomies -- “either listen to me, or these terrible things will happen." Listeners are too preoccupied by the threat of terrible things to think critically about the speaker’s message.

That’s as cold and reptilian as they come. And that's the reason for the emphasis on terrorist violence.

--who have a strategy worked out ahead of time for when to stay and when to walk away from a debate (page 41). When your only concern is winning, why engage in a debate which, although it might lead to the truth, won‘t enable you to win? ....I'm sorry, Coach Lombardi, but winning isn't everything.

Do not underestimate the thoroughness and depth of the indoctrination in the Zionists you may encounter: it is nothing less than a complete divorce from reality. Don't take this personally, but fanaticism in the young is always much more potent. Older folks have had more time to mull over the evil consequences of the pathocrat lifestyle, and are less inclined to be so rabid. Or have a chat with a young man who was a volunteer soldier and is now a quadruplegic. Things like loosing a few limbs can also mellow one's judgment -- but oh, the cost!

Consider the Hasbara Handbook's suggested response to a not unreasonable justification of Palestinian terrorism:

Accusation: The Palestinian use of terror is understandable and legitimate as it is their only weapon against the oppression of Israeli Occupation.

Rebuttal: There can never be any justification for the deliberate murder and threatening of innocent civilians to exact political concessions. The only effective way to combat terrorism on an international scale is to view all terrorists equally and not to differentiate between good and bad terrorists. The biggest success terrorists have had in the twentieth century has been getting people to accept the idea that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

1. “There can never be any justification….�  But isn’t that exactly what the Zionists have always been doing,  for over a century --justifying? We have a major reality disconnect here.

2.  The biggest success the Zionists have had in the twentieth century has been getting the American people to accept the idea that “the Palestinian freedom fighters are terrorists."

So mind how you go — it’s a jungle out there!

[The biggest success the Zionists have had in the twentieth century has been getting the American people to accept the idea that “the Palestinian freedom fighters are terrorists."]

Thanks for your reply, a.saccus.
I see from your comments that you had to deal with pro-Zionist "debates" yourself. It's quite an enlightening experience, really, to see and hear all that we're learning here play out in the "real world."  

As you may suspect, their reaction is not just some ad hoc response at the local watering hole, but a planned and deliberate strategy for victory in debate and in policy, carried on at every level of American society: in Congress, in the Media, e.g., the recent bashing of President Carter, and most importantly, on campus. You are, to use a possibly dated but still effective idiom, “where the action is". The molding is always attempted upon the young -- probably due, no doubt, to some Game Theory principle of maximizing their investment: in the normal order of things, old farts like me will probably die off sooner than a younger person would.

If you haven’t had the chance yet to glance at the World Union of Jewish Students Hasbara Handbook website, you might want to check it out. Not only will it illuminate some of your campus experiences — which would be wonderful to hear about — but you might derive considerable practical benefit in your future encounters with los zionistas.

WJUS Hasbara calls what they’re doing “Israel Advocacy“, but “advocacy" in this context is a blatant misnomer: what they are doing is outright sophistry and rhetorical manipulation; to be used upon those (mainly young people) who believe they’re engaging in a genuine dialogue or debate, but are really being set up and led down the garden path.

Yes, indeed! I read through the handbook (your link didn't work, but found a copy here: [www(dot)middle-east-info(dot)org/take/wujshasbara.pdf]) and am rather surprised at the similarity of "information" the pro-Zionists are throwing at me - sometimes almost word-for-word! Not surprising... these kids often have no creativity and just keep repeating the same things over and over again.

Many of them have been on all-expense-paid trips to Israel where they got to enjoy the "awesome" Tel-Aviv night life, tour the IDF armory, pose on tanks, and ride camels! (I've seen the photos they take) I'm sure the schedule includes many conferences where they're essentially brainwashed with the following ideas:
1. Israel is the only real democracy in the M.E.
2. Israel's culture is rich and is the beacon of technological progress in the M.E. and the world
3. The Jews found this place a desert and transformed it into the above (I hear this one a lot)
4. Israel is surrounded by enemies that are bloodthirsty for Jewish blood
5. etc...

Perhaps it would be beneficial if I share some of my observations from one "debate" I had with a pro-Zionist (only a brief summary):

The topic of one of them was "Hamas, Hezbollah: terrorists or freedom fighters?". The pro-Zionist gave an "official" definition of terrorism and said that according to this definition, Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorists. I said - this definition is very absolute and doesn't take into account the "reality on the ground" and the context of the conflict. Then I said that, according to this definition, the IDF/Israel could also be labeled as terrorists, since they have systematically killed innocent civilians. He said, no, of course - the IDF doesn't "deliberately" kill innocent civilians. I presented a list of data showing how violent IDF actions caused un-necessary deaths of innocents, also presenting the statistics so far collected (from human rights groups), which clearly show the huge difference between casualties. He said, "absolute numbers don't mean anything," and, besides, all your sources are "tangentially related articles" which don't contain the word "terrorism" (nor fit the "official" definition).

Then he started ranting about how all I was saying was "fallacy," using some technical jargon I did not understand. Only rarely did he address the CONTENT of my statements, btw: all he kept saying was "fallacy" and "doesn't include terrorism/doesn't fit 'definition' of terrorism."

It became clear that he cannot realize nor conceive of the notion that his "official definition" is absolute and doesn't mean anything when looking at the context of the situation. Any attempt at trying to get him to think "outside HIS box" resulted in a mind-block and the repetition of the above. How do you "debate" with someone so closed-minded? You can't, since all they do is "score points" on you...

Now, regarding this "absolute numbers" deal, he gave the ICT as a source. This is interesting.
From Wiki:

The International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) is a non-profit organization located at the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC), Herzliya, Israel. The ICT was founded in 1996 and describes itself as "the leading academic institute for counter-terrorism in the world, facilitating international cooperation in the global struggle against terrorism. ICT is an independent think tank providing expertise in terrorism, counter-terrorism, homeland security, threat vulnerability and risk assessment, intelligence analysis and national security and defense policy." [1] "All of its efforts and resources are dedicated to approaching the issue of terrorism globally - that is, as a strategic problem that faces not only Israel but other countries as well." [2]
[http://en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/The_Institute_for_Counter-Terrorism]

home page: http://www(dot)instituteforcounterterrorism(dot)org/

...wonder who THEY're going to support in their "findings"!? Israeli location, Israeli leadership, well(privately)-funded. They even have a "commercial arm" (Counter-Terrorism Solutions Ltd.) which provides "risk assessment," among other services.

He linked the following from ICT to counter the Israeli-Palestinian civilian death statistics I provided (caveat lector):
[http://212(dot)150(dot)54(dot)123/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=440], where it says...

The Significance of the Statistical Patterns

The statistics show that Israeli noncombatants over the last 23 months have been killed essentially at random, as Palestinian terrorists have chosen to attack whichever civilian targets were accessible. Palestinian fatalities, however, have been strongly concentrated within a particular population segment – teenaged boys and young men.

Population segments like women or older people are not military targets; thus their higher prevalence among Israeli fatalities is an indication of the degree to which Palestinian terrorists have killed Israelis simply for the “crime�  of being Israeli.

In contrast, Palestinian noncombatant fatalities have been overwhelmingly young (but over the age of 11) and male. This pattern of Palestinian deaths completely contradicts accusations that Israel has “indiscriminately targeted women and children.�  It is clear that the vast majority of the Palestinians killed did not die as the result of random Israeli attacks on inhabited areas, or on mixed-sex crowds at roadblocks and the like. There appears to be only one reasonable explanation of this pattern: that Palestinian men and boys engaged in behavior that brought them into conflict with Israeli armed forces. Certainly, at least after the first few days of the conflict, these Palestinian men and boys (or, in the case of the younger ones, their parents and teachers) have to have been aware that they were placing themselves in harm’s way.

In fact, the highly specific pattern of Palestinian noncombatant fatalities suggests that many of these deaths have resulted from an active Palestinian indoctrination campaign glorifying “martyrdom�  – effectively encouraging boys and young men to confront Israeli forces and risk death even when there was no real likelihood of causing material harm to Israelis.

...and these are "facts," according to this guy Talk about MAJOR damage control by the ICT and subsequent attempt at brain-washing of the public!

You are probably not dealing with those who are seeking the truth of the matter and who will discuss the question fairly with you, but those who -- have an agenda to push: they call it “Neutralizing Negativity" or “Pushing Positivity“; in other words, their goal is manipulation, not truth.

This becomes clear after only a couple exchanges, as noted above.

And notice the concern -- expressed over and over again through the Handbook -- with appearances, with maintaining a façade. You don’t need to do that if you’re telling the truth, now do you?

Does any of this sound familiar?

Oh, yes - very familiar. Explains the "fallacy" jargon which had nothing to do with what I was saying...

Or, in my experience, the clever reason is the "official definition" of terrorism and stating "fallacy" to any facts I can present.

The biggest success the Zionists have had in the twentieth century has been getting the American people to accept the idea that “the Palestinian freedom fighters are terrorists."

Nicely put, and OH - so true

sHIZo963, great stuff you've got there!

I see from your comments that you had to deal with pro-Zionist "debates" yourself. It's quite an enlightening experience, really, to see and hear all that we're learning here play out in the "real world."

Yes, indeed. I wish there were some way we could get other students to have the type of experiences you described, for it surely would wake them up. I didn't know they were sending students on junkets over to Israel. I thought that was just for congressmen and businessmen.

That one quote "[…]He said, "absolute numbers don't mean anything," is so, so sad it's actually funny!

Any attempt at trying to get him to think "outside HIS box" resulted in a mind-block and the repetition of the above. How do you "debate" with someone so closed-minded? You can't, since all they do is "score points" on you...

Doesn't that absolutely send shivers up your spine, and give real force to Laura's identification of them as soulless, reptilian things?

The International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) is a non-profit organization located at the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC), Herzliya, Israel.[...]

Thank you for that. Never heard of them and will check out.

Phil Weiss wrote a moving post about a young Israeli student who struggled through service in the IDF, lost his sister to a Palestinian suicide bomber, grappled through the issues to a very thoughtful position, and is now touring the US with a Palestinian working for peace. here

Here's his organization and touring schedule, which shows they will be coming to Evanston January 25 and Burbank January 26. (I'm from Chicago myself originally.)

http://ga3.org/btvshalom/notice-description.tcl?newsletter_id=4964489

Brit Tzedek v'Shalom is pleased to announce that our 22-city speaking tour with Combatants for Peace will launch today in Atlanta, Georgia. The tour will then proceed to metropolitan areas across the country: Raleigh, New York City, Philadelphia, New Haven, Bridgeport, Amherst, Albany, Providence, Detroit, Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbia, Kansas City, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, Portland, Eugene and finally Seattle.  (See tour schedule below.)

The Combatants for Peace movement was founded in 2005 by Israelis and Palestinians who were once actively involved in perpetuating the cycle of violence. They decided to put down their weapons, and to fight instead for peace through dialogue, reconciliation and educational outreach. In addition to organizing countless meetings between Israeli and Palestinian veterans, the Combatants for Peace have worked together to raise the consciousness in both larger Israeli and Palestinian societies of the aspirations and fears of those on the "other side," and in so doing to create partners in dialogue.

Combatants for Peace Tour Speakers:
Sulaiman Al Hamri is the Palestinian coordinator for Combatants for Peace. He spent four-and-a-half years in Israeli prisons for his involvement in anti-occupation protests and demonstrations before deciding to pursue a non-violent approach to resolving the conflict.

Elik Elhanan (Jan. 8-27) is the Israeli coordinator of Combatants for Peace. He is familiar with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict both as a fighter and as a victim: from 1995 to 1998 he served as a soldier in an IDF combat unit. In 1997 his sister was killed by a Palestinian suicide bombing in Jerusalem.

Shimon Katz (Jan. 28-Feb. 9) served for four years as an officer in an elite IDF unit. After studying meditation in the Far East, he became interested in non-violent ways of living.

With your previous experiences, this might be an interesting venue to check out your new Hasbara Handbook chops! Zionists might actually be in the minority (a vocal one, no doubt) at these lectures.

Note: Technical difficulties in disconnecting from AOL , or whatever, is still making it hard for me to access forum on a regular or predictable basis. I won't know if AOL is the problem for another two weeks when they can no longer charge me any more money. Hence my irregular response time here to you. Feel free to send an email.

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That one quote "[…]He said, "absolute numbers don't mean anything," is so, so sad it's actually funny!

Haven't you heard, a.saccus? 10000 dead Arabs aren't worth a Jewish fingernail! If even one Jew were dead, and 4000 Arabs dead also, absolute numbers would still mean nothing. There is simply no comparison. Don't you get it?!

Regarding the debates, here's a quote I recently re-read:

A man with a conviction is hard to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.

[Leon Festinger wrote:]

Leon Festinger wrote:
A man with a conviction is hard to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.

Fine quote, hkoehli. I printed it out and stuck it on my computer where I could see it and let it sink in. Thanks.

But moving on to more serious subjects:

Haven't you heard, a.saccus? 10000 dead Arabs aren't worth a Jewish fingernail! If even one Jew were dead, and 4000 Arabs dead also, absolute numbers would still mean nothing. There is simply no comparison. Don't you get it?!

Golly, hkoehli! Didn’t you get the email from The Israel Lobby Headquarters?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Golda_Meir

There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist. Sunday Times,1969-06-15; The Washington Post, 1969-06-16.

Or wait.

Oh my, I get so confused sometimes!

Maybe they do exist, they’re just not human! That’s right! That’s what it was! They explain it real plain and simple here:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/supplement/so-daat-emet/en_gentiles4.html

Forward
For a long time we have been considering the necessity of informing our readers about Halacha's real attitude towards non-Jews. Many untrue things are publicized on this issue and the facts should be made clear. But recently, we were presented with a diligently written article on the subject, authored by a scholar from the Merkaz HaRav yeshiva -- so our job was done by others (though we have already discussed some aspects of this issue in the weekly portions of Balak and Matot; see there). Since there is almost no disagreement between us and the author of the article on this issue, we have chosen to bring the article "Jews Are Called 'Men'" by R' David Bar-Chayim (in Hebrew) so that the reader will be able to study and understand the attitude of the Halacha towards non-Jews.
[…]
Summary
What arises from all the aforementioned is that in the words of the Prophets, and also in the words of our Sages OBM, the Gentiles are thought of as animals.

Even so, it clearly does not mean that they are actually treated as animals, and there are distinctions between Gentiles and animals, for we have already seen that the Halacha deems stealing from a Gentile to be forbidden by the Torah's law, while it is clear that stealing from a beast is not considered stealing.

Likewise the Mechilta says that judgement of one who intentionally kills a Gentile is given to Heaven and, of course, this is not the case regarding an animal.

Also, the Gentiles were commanded to fulfill the Seven Commandments of the sons of Noah -- in contrast, of course, to animals.

Nevertheless, we have seen that the status of the Gentiles in Halacha is similar to that of animals in many respects, and generally speaking, there is no real distinctions made between them (further on we will expand slightly this on deep concept).

So it don’t make no diff’rence if it’s 10 or 10,000 -- they’re either animals, or they ain't not there at all!

I hope that clears tings up for you!

  Dontcha like it when they make tings so clear and simpell?

Dontcha like it when they make tings so clear and simpell?

Ya sure, you betcha.  And dey make it so much simpeller for demselves, tu, by deciding dey r de only humans.

And dey make it so much simpeller for demselves, tu, by deciding dey r de only humans.

But sat worked fery well in my Kantry too, in se past - I mean -  bevor eferybody died (...by 1945).

Vat a mess. If we kan't be se Ueber-humanns and sey kan't be se only humanns where se hell got humannity tu ko??? 8|