To form a group in Quebec, Canada

aristar8

The Force is Strong With This One
Hello to all
I was wondering if, based on the work of The C's and the Wave, we could reunite a group here in Quebec, Canada where we could maybe try to do the awsome work you have been doing. You know, not much people know about the other dimensions, densities and also what is going to happen in a near future. I already know a lot of people with the capacity of understanding these concepts, and who are willing to learn. These persons are ps ychologists, psychiatrics, doctors, osteopaths, lawyers and even the president of Hydro Quebec and his wife. I am willing to be responsable for that but it would be under your conditions.
I think it is urgent that people know the reality of what is going on in the world in general. The speaken language would be french.
Thank you.
 
Hi aristar,

I would suggest inviting them to the forum to interact and learn. We don't have 'franchises' or a formal system to set up 'groups' around the world to instruct at this point. We might at some time in the future, but at this point, due to experience, we do not.

That is why the forum and the vast amount of material offered freely on cassiopaea.org is here. Time and time again we have learned that when people take it upon themselves to 'teach others' about this material, without being a member of QFS, that the information passed on is not only not quite accurate, but very unhealthy dynamics tend to develop.

If these people you know are sincerely interested, then it is best for them and for you that they come to the material on their own accord and by their own effort. You can most certainly show them the door by sending them to cassiopaea.org, Sott.net or the forum.
 
Hello to all
Thanks for your answers Anart. The main problem is that people do not speak or understand english. The second one is I have already asked to be a member of QFS and you answered by sending me a form to fill and send it back to you by email. I did that about a year ago and nobody ever answered me. Is it still possible to be a member of QFS.
Thank you
 
aristar8 said:
Hello to all
Thanks for your answers Anart. The main problem is that people do not speak or understand english.

Well, that doesn't really affect the fact that we don't endorse or encourage people not connected to QFS to 'instruct' others in this material. Several of Laura's books are available in French - http://www.pilulerouge.com/



aristar8 said:
The second one is I have already asked to be a member of QFS and you answered by sending me a form to fill and send it back to you by email. I did that about a year ago and nobody ever answered me. Is it still possible to be a member of QFS.
Thank you

Just to clarify, 'I' didn't send you the form, if you were sent a form that would have been done by the admission committee. If you did not receive a response, then they may not have ever received your form, since, to my knowledge, they do always respond. Did you double check or inquire again? You did, after all, leave this forum previously in quite a huff, so it could be that it was interpreted that you were no longer interested based on your actions. Also, a year ago, the committee was not accepting applications due to the law suit. Also, requirements have changed due to increased interest in QFS, the most core of those being active involvement on this forum. Considering your rather limited involvement on the forum, I would strongly advise you to continue to interact, learn more and evidence this learning here on the forum, and then re-apply to QFS. :)
 
Hello Anart
Quote:
You did, after all, leave this forum previously in quite a huff, so it could be that it was interpreted that you were no longer interested based on your actions. Also, a year ago, the committee was not accepting applications due to the law suit. Also, requirements have changed due to increased interest in QFS, the most core of those being active involvement on this forum. Considering your rather limited involvement on the forum, I would strongly advise you to continue to interact, learn more and evidence this learning here on the forum, and then re-apply to QFS.

First, this was an interpretation and not a fact for my reason of quitting so rapidly. Now for the real reason: My house went on fire because of negligence of my skizophrenic son. I was a nervous wreck and was on a nervous breakdown. But nothing happens for nothing. The result brought a little more awareness in me. I am not a perfect person and will never be. My computer was lost in the fire. So I cannot do the inquiry as for the date and else.

As for my involvement in this forum, you are right. But that does not mean that I do not come very often and read what is said from the speakers.
I read almost every day about the Cass and the Wave. I think I went 4 times through all this Stuff.
You said that you suggested that I get involve more in the forum but I really think that I would do a lot more in terms of helping people here in this part of country in forming a group that would after be able to instruct some more people. And of course I will suggest people to come to the forum and buy the books. That was
my intention. As to be a member of QFS, is is still possible to be a member without your requirements previously suggested.
 
aristar8 said:
First, this was an interpretation and not a fact for my reason of quitting so rapidly.

Actually, no - you implied it was your attitude to this forum in your post on your return:

aristar8 said:
I am a new and an old member of the Forum. Two years ago, I had to leave because of health problems. At that time, I thought I knew a lot of things but today, I can sincerely say that I was ignorant even after reading the Wave and other texts from this site. At that time, I thougt the moderators were very hard on some people but these feelings are not the same now. I understand why they put the right words at the right places. I was limited and judgemental. I guess I had to learn the hard way to understand.

Which indicated that you did not agree with the information you found here, or the way the forum was run. I could quote some of your posts as 'aristar' if you would like some more reminders of how judgmental you were of this forum at times.



aristar8 said:
Now for the real reason: My house went on fire because of negligence of my skizophrenic son. I was a nervous wreck and was on a nervous breakdown. But nothing happens for nothing. The result brought a little more awareness in me. I am not a perfect person and will never be. My computer was lost in the fire. So I cannot do the inquiry as for the date and else.

No one thinks anyone should be 'perfect' by external or societal standards - in reality we are all perfect exactly how we are.

aristar8 said:
As for my involvement in this forum, you are right. But that does not mean that I do not come very often and read what is said from the speakers.

That's good, but if one does not or cannot interact and give back, then an imbalance is created that harms you.


aristar8 said:
I read almost every day about the Cass and the Wave. I think I went 4 times through all this Stuff.

That's great, so now start to discuss it here, so you can learn whether your understanding is actually correct or not - this is the only way to know for sure.

aristar8 said:
You said that you suggested that I get involve more in the forum but I really think that I would do a lot more in terms of helping people here in this part of country in forming a group that would after be able to instruct some more people.

I understand your desire to 'help' - however you must first help yourself to gain an objective understanding - if not , not only will you be leading yourself astray, but you'll be leading others astray. The fact that you do not understand this or have not considered it is the biggest red flag of all about your whole idea. This is not a game - it is not a parlor conversation or a hobby - and the fact that you think that you are ready to instruct others on this material when you have not even been interacting consistently with the public face of QFS (the forum) indicates that you do not understand the larger picture, or the details.

There is also what Gurdjieff had to say about the tendency to 'help people' in this way:

Gurdjieff said:
It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it. Love of mankind, altruism, are all very fine words, but they only have meaning when a man is able, of his own choice and of his own decision, to love or not to love, to be an altruist or an egoist. Then his choice has a value. But if there is no choice at all, if he cannot be different, if he is only such as chance has made or is making him, an altruist today, an egoist tomorrow, again an altruist the day after tomorrow, then there is no value in it whatever. In order to help others one must first learn to be an egoist, a conscious egoist. Only a conscious egoist can help people. Such as we are we can do nothing. A man decides to be an egoist but gives away his last shirt instead. He decides to give away his last shirt, but instead, he strips of his last shirt the man to whom he meant to give his own. Or he decides to give away his own shirt but gives away somebody else's and is offended if somebody refuses to give him his shirt so that he may give it to another. This is what happens most often. And so it goes on.

aristar8 said:
And of course I will suggest people to come to the forum and buy the books. That was
my intention. As to be a member of QFS, is is still possible to be a member without your requirements previously suggested.

No, it is not - that is part of the requirement and it is there for very good reason.
 
Anart
Quote from: aristar8
I am a new and an old member of the Forum. Two years ago, I had to leave because of health problems. At that time, I thought I knew a lot of things but today, I can sincerely say that I was ignorant even after reading the Wave and other texts from this site. At that time, I thougt the moderators were very hard on some people but these feelings are not the same now. I understand why they put the right words at the right places. I was limited and judgemental. I guess I had to learn the hard way to understand.

HEALTH PROBLEMS that were caused by nervous breakdown so my capacity of understanding the things right were limited.

Quote from: aristar8
As for my involvement in this forum, you are right. But that does not mean that I do not come very often and read what is said from the speakers.

That's good, but if one does not or cannot interact and give back, then an imbalance is created that harms you.

Anart, that does not mean that I do not interact with other people and help them, I do that every day based on what I learned here. That is my job.


Quote from: Gurdjieff
It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it. Love of mankind, altruism, are all very fine words, but they only have meaning when a man is able, of his own choice and of his own decision, to love or not to love, to be an altruist or an egoist. Then his choice has a value. But if there is no choice at all, if he cannot be different, if he is only such as chance has made or is making him, an altruist today, an egoist tomorrow, again an altruist the day after tomorrow, then there is no value in it whatever. In order to help others one must first learn to be an egoist, a conscious egoist. Only a conscious egoist can help people. Such as we are we can do nothing. A man decides to be an egoist but gives away his last shirt instead. He decides to give away his last shirt, but instead, he strips of his last shirt the man to whom he meant to give his own. Or he decides to give away his own shirt but gives away somebody else's and is offended if somebody refuses to give him his shirt so that he may give it to another. This is what happens most often. And so it goes on.

I do not help people out of laziness or because I do not want to help or know myself, I do it out of love and altruism. You do not know me and cannot assume that I cannot help others. Like Gurdjieff said: This is what happens most often. BUT NOT ALWAYS.

But I understand your reasons.
 
aristar8, you are completely missing the point, which is exactly why you should not be instructing people on this material!!!

You are evidencing, quite strongly, your complete lack of a firm grasp on what it is we do here and why we do it. This is almost certainly a direct result of reading and keeping your own counsel and NOT questioning yourself and your understanding. If you are attempting to teach others about this material with your current level of knowledge, then you are doing damage - and nothing more. You may even be assuring that they will never approach this material on their own and benefit from it because your introduction was so misguided and not objectively true that they will forever connect the material to you - thus you destroy whatever inherent chance they might have had on their own. You do not grasp the horror of that possibility, or the resultant responsibility, or you would not be doing what you are doing.

You are not even willing to consider the possibility that what I have said to you up to this point is the absolute truth - yet you consider yourself capable of teaching others?
 
aristar8 said:
I am willing to be responsable for that but it would be under your conditions.

I'd also like to point out that it's quite troubling that you started this thread by stating the above - and then proceed to argue with or discount what I have tried to explain to you about the truths of such a process. It does not bode well by any means.
 
Anart

Quote from: aristar8
I am willing to be responsable for that but it would be under your conditions.

I'd also like to point out that it's quite troubling that you started this thread by stating the above - and then proceed to argue with or discount what I have tried to explain to you about the truths of such a process. It does not bode well by any means.

I think that you misunderstood me because I cannot express myself as good as in french. When I said that I was to be responsable, it meant: A gathering of a few persons who already know the content of the forum and we already discussed a lot from what has been said here. As for the fact that I use the content of the site to help people, which I do every day because I am a psychologist, I meant like: Depression can be used as a step towards awareness, etc... You do not have to worry that I send the wrong message to people. I use a lot of Gurdjieff's work to help those people.
As to be responsable to the group and by your conditions, I meant that we would follow your pattern and not by getting a franchise or so.
I am sorry if I express myself so poorly but do not be afraid that I send people the wrong way. They would not let me do that.
 
Please listen to me. Seriously, listen and do not automatically start to think of reasons I am wrong or do not understand. Listen to me and consider the idea - very strongly consider the idea - that I am 100% correct.

aristar8 said:
I am sorry if I express myself so poorly but do not be afraid that I send people the wrong way. They would not let me do that.

This is untrue. You DO send people the wrong way. I guarantee it. The people you are talking to would not know one way or another, whether it was right or wrong. I guarantee it. If they did know such things, we would know. If you knew such things, you would not have posted 90% of what you've written in this thread.

You said they don't read English, but then you say they're already aware of the content of this forum? Is that awareness due to your representation of it?

aristar8, if you do not start to question yourself - deeply, deeply question yourself and your understanding, you will never have a chance to awaken from this dream you are in that you are a teacher and helping. The fact that you do not question yourself and are so sure is proof positive and why I can guarantee the above.

What you do is up to you - however, if you are not willing to consider the fact that what I have written to you today is 100% true, then there is little reason for you to be on this forum, much less 'teaching' this material to anyone at all.

You desperately need to read (or re-read) the following quote, slowly, and apply it to yourself :

Mme de Salzmann said:
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.
 
Thank you Anart

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

This is sincerely what I try and been trying to do for a long time but I still have a long way to go before I can say that I succeded.

I think I am beginning to understand what you meant. I think you spoke wisdom and I will follow your way.
Thank you sincerely
 
Hello
I always was a cerebral person but the real person in me was to weak to realize that I have been programming myself to act certain ways as to be loved or accepted by others. Performance was important but not anymore. I am still struggling very much to go beyond the false person but in my sense I think I can reach the real one not very since it is very hard to connect a long time.
Again, thank you
 
aristar8 said:
Hello
I always was a cerebral person but the real person in me was to weak to realize that I have been programming myself to act certain ways as to be loved or accepted by others.

I think that makes a lot of sense and that most, if not all of us have if not the same, then very similar, programming.


aristar8 said:
Performance was important but not anymore. I am still struggling very much to go beyond the false person but in my sense I think I can reach the real one not very since it is very hard to connect a long time.
Again, thank you

I may sound like I'm repeating myself, but that is where a network is invaluable. An objective network can give us insight we would not otherwise have - give us the clues and hints, and burning, necessary to connect with the 'real one' inside. It is difficult, but it is possible - though one must always be aware of how narrow the path really is and must always, every moment of every day, Work to remember what our 'mind' is often our worst enemy and no one can make it out alone!
 
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