Satellites collide

ark

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Yesterday I posted on my Polish blog a note about the collision in space of two satellites, the Russian one from the Kosmos family and the American one from the Iridium group. One of the readers of my blog has made a comment that I asked him to translate into English, as it seemed to me that it touches a little problem that we may have with this event. So, here it is:


As found in http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/

„U.S. STRATCOM routinely tracks about 18,000 objects in space, including satellites and debris, that are 3.9 inches across or larger.”

From this quotation, I conclude there is a database containing information about position, velocity and direction of the motion of all such objects. As I could further read: „Tracking priority and "conjunction analysis" - identifying which objects may pose a threat to manned spacecraft - is the first priority.”

Other priority, as I suspect, is avoiding collisions by expensive orbital installations, like satellites.

Considering facts that:

satellites are guidable, at least those which are functional, there are available sufficient computing potential in order that US STRATCOM tracked any collision possibilities at least few days ahead, estimated maximum chance of collision of two satellites moving with speed 0,51 km per second making one turn around globe per day on a random, variable but perpendicular orbits between 450 and 850 km above Earth is like once in 483 mln years (I assumed satellite to be cubes with an edge of 10 meters). There no possibility for an accidental collision.
We can conclude then, there is a false information in cited article that is quite probable when contrasted with the calculated propability of an accidental collision.

So, if it wasn't an accident, what could it be?

1.Could it be purposive, hostile destruction of one satellite by another?
2.Or collision being an effect of some kind of experiment?
3.Sabotage by manipulation of data entered into system?
4.Satellites were destroyed in effect of an incident we weren't informed about?

Personally I consider last possibility as most probable, what is supported by additional information found at another source about existence of two clouds of debris as the effect of this incident.
As Ark pointed out, collision could be effect of investigation of some other phenomena performed at the same time by two teams, which caused destruction of satellites.
 
Thanks Ark for bringing this up. I was thinking about satellites colliding when I first read that article and did a search to see if I could find anything. Below is what I found. The article seems to suggest that it is not impossible for the satellites to collide. Source

Is it possible for two orbiting satellites to collide?

Possible, certainly. The real question is, how likely such collisions are. Many things are possible (e.g. you getting hit by a falling meteorite) but are ignored as too unlikely.

Collisions between satellites are indeed unlikely, but their likelihood increases rapidly with the number of satellites: increase the number of satellites 10 times and, other things being equal, the likelihood of collision grows 100-fold.

It all depends on the orbits of course. Most satellites move in low-altitude Earth orbit, 600-1000 kilometer above the ground. At any times, this space is filled by thousands of pieces of matter--satellites, rocket stages, cast-off pieces of hardware (like weights used to slow down satellite spin), etc., about 100,000 pieces, most of them fragments from exploding rockets, but also including some 7500 larger accountable pieces of space hardware. Space is huge, but all these are moving rapidly. Luckily, all motions are essentially in the same direction (west to east, chosen to take advantage of the Earth's rotation) with almost the same speed. Even so, that speed is enormous, and collisions still may occur, since the orbits make different angles with the Earth's equator.

So far, the problem is not serious. One definite collision has been recorded in July 1996. The French satellite Cerise, launched in 1995, collided with debris from a 1986 launch, and broke off a stabilizing boom. In this case it was soon noted that the satellite had lost orientation and control was reestablished. Fine grains of debris occasionally hit the space shuttle, leaving impact marks in the heat tiles and even in the windows; to avoid damage to the sensitive front of the shuttle, at times when no reason exists to do otherwise, it flies tail-first. A "ding" 1/16 inch across, in a window of the shuttle, may be seen at http://satobs.org/image/sts-70_win.gif.

The main fear is that as the number of satellites grows, collisions will become more frequent. True, satellites in low orbits are also gradually removed , for air resistance makes them spiral downwards until they are burned up in the denser low atmosphere. But more collisions also produce fragments which increase the hazard.

High orbits, such as those of communication satellites which hang above fixed spots on the rotating Earth, can last millions of years.
Unless somehow removed, such satellites will stay up almost indefinitely, long after they have stopped giving useful service.
 
Thanks ark, this is interesting. I did think it was strange that two satellites would collide. When people say that space is 'polluted' and 'overcrowded' with satellites, I've always understood that to be a hyperbolic metaphor. I mean, the orbital space is HUGE and satellites are no bigger than a car. Even if there are thousands up there, it seems to me that an accidental collision would be very unlikely. A collision that would result in the total destruction of both satellites would be extremely unlikely (or so I think). It would be interesting to find out what the satellites were for in the first place. I hear that at least one of them was out of use - or so we are told.

The other question is: why did the event make it to the mainstream media? What do they want us to believe?
 
Spaceweather.com for 15/2/09 has this interesting snipet:
KENTUCKY FIREBALL: On Friday, Feb. 13th, around 10:00 pm EST, people in central Kentucky heard loud booms, felt their houses shake, and some saw a fireball streaking through the sky. The nature of this event is still under investigation. Possibilities include a small asteroid or a piece of space junk entering Earth's atmosphere. National Weather Service reports that the fireball was debris from the Feb. 10th collision of Iridium 33 and Kosmos 2251 satellites may be premature. Stay tuned for updates.
 
Well look's like they don't want to use this collision for space bombardment cover up story or distraction:

_http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_sc/falling_debris

Mystery fireball streaks across Texas sky
DALLAS – What looked like a fireball streaked across the Texas sky on Sunday morning, leading many people to call authorities to report seeing falling debris.

"We don't know what it was," said Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Roland Herwig.

The Williamson County Sheriff's Office used a helicopter to search after callers said they thought they saw a plane crashing, a spokesman said.

"We don't doubt what people saw" but authorities found nothing, said spokesman John Foster.

The U.S. Strategic Command said there was no connection to the sightings over Texas and Tuesday's collision of satellites from the U.S. and Russia.

"There is no correlation between the debris from that collision and those reports of re-entry," said Maj. Regina Winchester, with STRATCOM.

The FAA notified pilots on Saturday to be aware of possible space debris after a collision Tuesday between U.S. and Russian communication satellites. The chief of Russia's Mission Control says clouds of debris from the collision will circle Earth for thousands of years and threaten numerous satellites.

It must be something else they are doing with this. :evil:
 
Now there's this:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176233-British-and-French-Nuclear-Submarines-Collide-in-Atlantic

Nuclear-armed submarines from Britain and France collided deep under the Atlantic Ocean earlier this month, causing damage to both vessels but releasing no radioactivity, a British official said Monday.

All that water! Plus, how could the sonar or sensor equipment on BOTH subs, not have informed the crew that they were on a collision course with something so huge?
 
Then, there is this:

here's another theory for the satellite crash a few days ago

Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms

Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky were reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities said

"On Saturday, the FAA told pilots through its routine notification system that "a potential hazard may occur due to re-entry of satellite debris into the earth's atmosphere." The notice did not specify a time or location"

As Joe pointed out to me, the "colliding satellites" could actually be a cover story for a known coming barrage of cometary debris.

Can't have people suddenly realizing that we may really be heading into the cosmic soup. And it ain't ducky!
 
Q: (L) There was something else I wanted to ask also... Oh yeah! We did an I Ching for the year 2009. Basically it's "Biting Through", that once you've got the bite in your mouth, you've got to chew it. So, I was wondering if you had any comments on the year ahead?

A: Biting Through may apply more to those who are unprepared.

Q: (L) Unprepared in what sense?

A: 2009 is going to be a "smashing" year.

Q: (L) Swell. (J) Comets.

A: Maybe one...?
Well we just had 2 "smashes" already, within a few weeks of each other. But maybe more kinds of smashes are on the way?
 
This is reminiscent of the US shooting down one of it's own satellites not so long ago, osit.

Apologies in advance for being unable to recall the source of this picture, or even whether it's an actual photo or an impression, but here's an image of what Earth looks like surrounded by all those satellites:

 
bedower said:
Apologies in advance for being unable to recall the source of this picture, or even whether it's an actual photo or an impression, but here's an image of what Earth looks like surrounded by all those satellites:

I think that's an impression. The satellites are disproportionately huge.
 
Interesting how the Texans fireball report: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176236-Video-Update-Texas-Fireball is translate in french: http://fr.news.yahoo.com/3/20090215/twl-usa-aviation-debris-satellite-224d7fb.html

"But US Strategic Command has since said the two incidents are unrelated." become "La chute de ces débris pourrait être liée à la collision entre les satellites, ce qui n'a toutefois pas été confirmé pour le moment, a précisé un porte-parole de la FAA, Roland Herwig."

Translation: "The fall of these fragments could be bound to the collision between satellites, however that was not confirmed for the moment, clarified Roland Herwig, FAA spokesman." :rolleyes:
 
http://spaceweather.com/

FIREBALL MANIA: Runners in Sunday's Austin marathon were astonished when a brilliant fireball raced across the Texas sky in broad daylight. The extremely-bright meteor descended at 11 am CST on Feb. 15th less than a day after the FAA reportedly warned U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris" from the recent satellite collision between Iridium 33 and Kosmos 2251. Click on the image to launch a News 8 Austin video:[br]
news8_strip3.jpg
[br]
http://www.news8austin.com/shared/videolists/default.asp?VLID=40&destlist=&current=

Click to view fireball video



What you just saw was not satellite debris. The high speed of the fireball in the News 8 video is typical of a natural meteoroid hitting Earth's atmosphere at tens of km/s. Orbital debris, on the other hand, should crawl across the sky at a fraction of that speed. Astronomer Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office has reviewed the video and confirms "it's a natural meteor, definitely." According to his analysis, the source of the fireball was a meter-class asteroid traveling at about 20 km/s.

Fireball mania started on Friday the 13th, around 10 p.m. EST, when people in central Kentucky heard loud booms, felt their houses shake, and saw a fireball streaking through the sky: reports. "The world appeared to explode--in green!" said one eyewitness. Once again, this appears to be a natural event caused by a meteoroid. Iridium 33 and Kosmos 2251 collided at a speed of about 10 km/s or 22,000 mph. None of the surviving fragments should have been big enough to shake houses in Kentucky. Furthermore, US Space Command, which monitors objects in Earth orbit, has not announced a reentry over Kentucky on Feb. 13th.

Just hours before the Kentucky event, around 20:03 UT on Feb. 13th, multiple cameras in Italy recorded a fireball some 10 times brighter than a full Moon. Astronomer Diego Valeri sends this image from the town of Rieti:

valeri2_still_strip.jpg
[br]
http://spaceweather.com/swpod2009/16feb08/valeri1.avi?PHPSESSID=e647ffm0lkafbe8dpm3hbjpnn4

Click to view fireball video (Note: DivX required)

Ferruccio Zanotti of Ferrara, Italy, recorded that same fireball and two others. Italian scientists are plotting the trajectory of the brightest fireball to estimate where it might have hit the ground; a meteorite hunt will soon be underway.

Are we experiencing a "fireball shower?" Not necessarily. Meteoroids hit Earth every day. The daily fireballs they produce, however, are seldom reported: 70% streak over uninhabited ocean; half appear in glaring daylight; many are missed because people are asleep, at work, or not looking up. This current spate of fireballs could simply be a few ordinary, random meteoroids that have attracted extraordinary attention because of the recent satellite collision. The jury is still out.

Yes, we are. But as always there is nothing to fear. Remember this spate of fireballs are simply a few ordinary that have attracted your attention because of the recent satellite collision!

Bakerman is baking bread...
 
SAO said:
Q: (L) There was something else I wanted to ask also... Oh yeah! We did an I Ching for the year 2009. Basically it's "Biting Through", that once you've got the bite in your mouth, you've got to chew it. So, I was wondering if you had any comments on the year ahead?

A: Biting Through may apply more to those who are unprepared.

Q: (L) Unprepared in what sense?

A: 2009 is going to be a "smashing" year.

Q: (L) Swell. (J) Comets.

A: Maybe one...?
Well we just had 2 "smashes" already, within a few weeks of each other. But maybe more kinds of smashes are on the way?

Are you including the subs that smashed, just a little bump though, around the same time as the satellites?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jKcoIY6QBk2T25USYHDKbBtyUmHQD96D0EGO1
 
Does anyone have an idea where exactly these satellites banged into one another? Any particular region of sky, or longitude/latitude?
 
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