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Thank you Laura for an excellent new podcast. 

Mark was very well-spoken and a was a wealth on knowledge, not only on the FAR infrared blanket and technology, but on supplementation and toxins in our environment.

This is just a great, great podcast.

Thanks again! 

I agree wholeheartedly with Nienna's comments.  This podcast is absolutely vital information for pretty much everyone on the planet - toxins are impossible to avoid, and here is the way to preserve our health and detoxify ourselves from environmental poisons.  Thank you!

Great podcast indeed!

This gets me even more excited about my own little research in everything considering nutrients/metabolism/detoxifying and all that! I'm still a little confused about whether vitamin D is that necessary or not, because the C's mentioned the connection between vitamin D and L-form bacteria as other articles have as well, but then again Carolyn Dean and Mark Givert say that vitamin D is needed (for example for people with osteoporosis). But I guess it's about individuality and about who is infected with L-bacteria etc.. still reading on that.

Anyhow, thanks for the podcast , it was great and informative with a few jokes along the way, which I always love! 

Thanks Laura and SOTT great Podcast,
I am currently reading Detoxify or Die and this podcast reiterated so much that I have read in the book. I have been doing the diet for almost a month now and it is amazing how much better I feel. Several of my allergic skin conditions have completely disappeared, I have not yet used the Sauna, should be here in a few days, I am looking forward to increased detoxifying!!!! 

Interesting that I was just thinking of going back to the old podcasts to hear your voices while I refreshed the Sott main page and saw the mention of a new one. I've been waiting this for so long!

Also the topic is good, because whenever I look at the whole pages of info on detox here I don't know where to begin!

Going to listen now.

Would it be possible for someone to transcript the podcast for those who are deaf or hearing-impaired, such as myself?

In progress and should be up by the end of the today. 

Cheers.

In progress and should be up by the end of the today. 

Cheers.

Thank you Vulcan59. 

And it is going to be very useful for those who want to translate it in french, spanish....

 Toxic World, Toxic Bodies  - 8th December 08

Joe: Welcome to the latest SOTT podcast. This week with Laura we have Mark Givert who is here to talk on a variety of health related topics from fibromyalgia  to chronic fatigue syndrome, to..... help me out here Laura, what else are we going to talk about?

Laura: Well Mark is here to tell us a lot about heavy metal toxicity and how it affects your health including it's correlation with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia,  multiple sclerosis and really a host of really horrible diseases that are proliferating on the planet at an alarming rate.

We've heard recently that up to 90% of the population? are pretty much eaten up with candidiasis  and candidiasis  is related to heavy metal toxicity and there is some correlation between that and chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. So Mark has got some tremendous experience in these areas and we are going to be talking to him about these in some detail.

But before we do, I want to introduce the topic and how we found Mark because I'm sure that most of you have never heard of Mark Givert and the remarkable work that he is doing with chronic fatigue patients and with fibromyalgia sufferers. But the fact is, as many of you know, we haven't been doing the podcast for quite some time and there are a number reasons for that, one of which happens to be the state of my health since last year.

As many of you know, I was in an automobile accident back in 1994. I suffered some fairly severe injuries. After that incident I went through a long period of therapy, 3 years infact to be able to fully regain the use of my limbs and to get out from under the burden of pretty severe pain. You could say that the accident was actually a beneficial event in my life because after all of that therapy I actually knew what it felt like to feel good again. And I was in pretty good shape for quite a number of years and then off course we moved and after we moved with you know, stress and dietary changes the last few years, there were some residual effects and there were some issues that had not being cleared up at the time of, the 3 years of therapy.

So, 2 years ago my mother suffered a stroke. This was an extremely stressful time for me and our family and not too long after that, I started suffering from some additional problems that had been with me for most of my life that had been kind of shoved into the background and masked by different therapies. And one of the symptoms was a really frozen shoulder. My shoulder became absolutely unusable and I was in constant continuous pain day and night. There were days when I couldn't go down the stairs and people had to bring food to me and there were days when I couldn't even eat because I was in so much pain. So it was pretty bad. I couldn't write or wrote very little because I was   in so much agony with this arm and  couldn't use it.

So to make a long story short, after investigating my options where I currently live, surgery was seemed to be necessary by myself and everyone around me because something had to be done. And I had the surgery last April, which is this year, April this year and after the surgery I really went into a serious decline. It was, you know I came out of the hospital and l continued to soldier on, working as best as I could and as much as I could, but things kept getting worst. And I knew I had to do something and I began searching. I found many clues  about candida and how candida can be exacerbated by surgery and by the antibiotics. Not just the antibiotics but by the toxicity of the general anaesthesia and the other kinds of medications that you get when you are in a hospital.   

And I was following these different threads and those of you who read our forum have a pretty good idea of where my thinking was going because as I found things, I would post them in the forum. And during the course of all of these reading, I first came across a book  called “The Fat Resistance Diet” because off course I was looking for things to deal with inflammation. I understood that I was inflamed. And the reason I really understood this was, couple of years ago when Ark and I went to a scientific conference in Troyes(?),two days into our stay in a hotel, during the middle of the night when I actually hadn't done anything at all. I didn't move. I didn't turn over in bed. Nothing was done but suddenly I was attacked by the most horrible pain in my neck as though somebody had literally, you know had struck my next with an axe, chopped my head off!! Well, (chuckle) maybe it's a past life memory of being invalid, but I don't think so.

So that led to the fact that I was prescribed with some pretty high dose of steroid anti-inflammatory. Taking cortisone put me on a high for about ten days. Pain was relieved. The inflammation was allowed to go down and the swelling went down and everything was fine. But what it really told me was, here I am taking an anti-inflammatory, one of the most powerful anti-inflammatorys available to medical science  and I felt like a million bucks. No part of my body hurt! I mean my back didn't hurt. My knees didn't hurt. My head didn't hurt.  My thinking was clear. I was Superman. I felt like I was 20years old again. But then off course you can only take a steroid for a short period of time. And I had to stop taking it and when I stopped taking it, all the pain came back. And I was once again hobbling around  like you know, a crutchty  old women ready for the rocking chair and you know, just take me out behind the barn and shoot me.

So I knew that inflammation was my problem. And I began to look for answers about inflammation. What causes inflammation? Something is in my system that is causing me to be inflamed and it's causing all this pain. It must be some food substance. It must be some, substance from my environment. Maybe it's in the air that I breath, maybe it's in the clothes that I wear, in the blankets,  in my bed where I sleep.

What is the answer, I am searching everywhere. What is the answer to this inflammation? And I came across this book by Leo Galland and it was called, “The Fat Resistance Diet” but it's not really about “fat” although it is about fat. It is about inflammation because Leo Galland suggest that people get fat because they are inflamed and that the body is attempting to defend the individual from the inflammatory  agents which generally are autoimmune disorders and begins to store things as fat. The problems with the insulin metabolism fat resistance is an autoimmune problem. Well he mentions several other studies and books and so I went from his book to ah......, what was the other book that I went to after Leo Galland? Fat Resistance to I think it was I think it was “Detoxify or Die” wasn't it? (yeah in background)

Dr. Sherry Rogers is a diplomat? in environmental medicine, one of probably only about 400  in that particular profession in the United states. Today, Sherry's book “Detoxify or Die” is only one of many of her books. She's got many of books out there because she is very active in trying to raise the awareness of the medical community of which she is a member.

So I read “Detoxify or Die” and “Detoxify or Die” finally gets down to the bottom line. She talks quite a bit about what causes inflammation. What causes toxification, what causes pain and suffering and misery and then she gets to the part where it is about detoxifying. And this is the part where I was really looking for. Okay I know something is wrong, just tell me how to fix it. And in addition to taking certain supplements, she recommended the use of an infra-red sauna. And that was the main weapon that a person must use to overcome, or detoxify their body and it's called FAR infra-red. I'm not sure what......Mark, do you know right off hand what the FAR stands for?

Mark: The far infra-red, that's different wavelengths of infra-red. There's actually near infra-red, medium infra-red and far infra-red. Traditional infra-red is the old fashion heat lamps, you know the red bulbs that people would put on if they had an ache or pain or something. Far infra-red is of that family but it's an invisible spectrum of light that is contain in sunlight and the wavelength is something like four microns to a thousand microns.

Laura: So, another words when you are using the far infra-red you are using a kind of light that is basically invisible. Do not expect it to glow. Is that it?

Mark: Correct.

Laura: Okay, so I found  out about the infra-red sauna, the far infra-red sauna and I began to search for one, and that is how I found Mark. There is a lot of other things going on but this is Mark's night, so we are not going to talk about that. I am just going to talk about the fact that I found Mark on the Internet. I researched all the different kinds of available saunas, from little tiny rooms where you have a, you know, like a heater and you seat in there and your whole body is inside this little box. I looked at the ones that looked like little boxes that are portable that you seat inside. It looks like a little quilted de-luminam?  gizmo and you have a place for your hands to come out and your head comes out. It looks like one of the torture devices in the fat farms in movies from the fifties.

So that didn't seem to be suitable. And then I found that they have the domes and then I discovered the blankets. The far infra-red blanket. Well there is a lot of different kind of far infra-red blankets out there and all far infra-red blankets are not created equal. As it turns out there is some that are put together pretty shoddily and Mark is going to talk about that a little bit so I don't want to anticipate what he's going to tell us. But that's how I found Mark.  I called him up on the phone and said I got to have one of this things. I didn't want to tell him too much because I didn't want to say you know, hey I just had surgery recently, I am really in a miserable state because he might have said to me, maybe you better not do this. This might be too drastic. And I didn't want anybody to tell me and assume anything was going be too drastic. So I wasn't going to tell anybody what was wrong.

So, very shortly thereafter, my infra-red blanket arrived. So I began following the directions according to the Sherry Roger's plan, more or less. Taking the supplements before the sauna, during the sauna and taking supplements afterwards. I used the sauna the first day and I, now, don't use me as an example because sometimes I experiment on myself in ways other people should not. Sometimes that's why I have problems because I experiment. Because I read the instructions and it said start slowly and so forth and I figured starting slowly meant 30 minutes the first day. Well, Mark is going to tell us about people who can only tolerate a few minutes of the sauna. Obviously I wasn't one of them because 30 minutes and I felt okay. So the second day I did an hour and I still felt okay and then I bumped it up to and hour and a half and I cranked the temperature up pretty much  to maximum and it was what I was doing everyday after that every single day. For five, six weeks I was in that sauna for an hour and half at about 60 degrees centigrade. What's that in Fahrenheit for all the  American listeners? Anybody know right of hand? It's about what, a 140 degrees? (Hmm in background)

That's, that's a really hot day in the Sahara people.  So that's what I was doing and not only that, but I was wearing a sweat suit inside the sauna. Because, well you know , I mean you sweat in the sauna, laying in like a sleeping bag thing, and these are great saunas. Because you get the far infra-red rays all the way around your body. It's not just the front of you and it's not just the back of you and it's not at a distance from you. It's right up next to you and you getting it surrounding your entire body. Well let me tell you, after about, how, how many....?? My daughter is here by the way tonight. She's been with me. She's kind of like my diet coach and she's been with me through this whole thing. Can you remember, was it 2 or 3 weeks before I decided I wanted to go in and start working out in the gym again? It was ....

Daughter: I think it was only about 2 weeks after using the sauna that you started feeling good  enough to do working out [Laura: Yeah] I mean, twice a week or so.

Laura: Yeah, so I started working out fairly quickly and quite frankly I felt really good. It was just, such an amazing transformation from being almost completely unable to walk and I should mention that there is some congestive heart failure going on there and some cardiac arrhythmia that I had that was really, really bad.

Within oh..5 days of doing daily saunas, the swelling in my legs went away completely and my legs had not, the swelling in my legs had not gone down at all for almost a year. It had been, it was a fairly severe problem. And everybody in here, the Signs team and my kids, they will tell you, that they would look at my legs and wince because they couldn't imagine how anybody could stand something that look like the skin was going to split at any moment.

So within just a couple of weeks, I was really feeling good and then by the time the 5 weeks, 5, 6 weeks had gone, I felt literally like I had dropped 15, maybe even 20 years from the way I had been feeling. Come on, lets face it, I'm not a spring chicken. I am 56 years old. But I don't believe that people have to feel their age. You can reverse some of this damage. And I learnt a lot during this process, reading a lot of books and then finally I called Mark back up and I said, Mark we got to have a couple more saunas around here because everybody else wants to get in on this sauna thing. Everybody is aware of, you know, they've been watching me. They know that it works for me and if it works for me at my age and  in the condition I was in, what will it do for them? There are all young people. But they are still feeling you know, when you live a life of stress and toxicity you got to do something about it.

So I called Mark back up and I says, Mark, you know, I've got to have a couple more saunas and you know maybe you can talk to us a little bit about it and what do you know. Turns out Mark knows a heck lot  about it and  there is a lot more going on with these saunas then I ever imagined. And Mark is here to tell us about it and I want to welcome Mark to our little podcast.  Glad you could make it down here.

Mark: Thank you.

Laura: The first thing, Mark, that  I'd like  to know is that I'd like for you to tell us and tell our listeners a little bit about your own story, how you found  the  far infra-red saunas. That's, that's going to be really interesting.

Mark: Okay. Well, my background originally I was actually in real estate, in commercial real estate in the UK and to cut a long story short, I decided to do some travelling and I went to.., I travelled  all over the world. I went to a lot of remote regions. And I am sure as many of you know, when you travel to some of these countries, you are prone to all kind of things that you can pick up and you name it, I got it. Actually after that trip of going around the world and travelling to many different places, it actually took me something like 7 years to recover! So I paid a bit of a price. However it was a great journey and literally I tried everything that you could possible imagine to restore your health. I had all kinds of problems. My liver was so swollen. I was in such bad shape. I mean literally I couldn't bend forward, that my liver was so inflamed. I, I...

Laura: He said that it was the size of a football, people.

Mark: (Laughing) I also had a serious yeast problem. I had a leaky gut. I had parasites. I had.., I  was experiencing what I thought at the time was fibromyalgia. I was getting numbness in my legs. Today I  sort of  attribute that. I think that it went hand in hand with the yeast problem, with the candida problem. But to cut a long story short, I was very underweight. I couldn't digest my food particularly. I had very little energy. I suffered from poor concentration. Poor memory. A lot of fatigue and the body  just wasn't working, very well. Nothing really worked particularly well. No matter what I ate, I couldn't digest it and I had a lot of discomfort and I ended up with irritable bowel and just ended up with all kinds of sensitiveness and allergies and you name it. I mean I couldn't tolerate anything at all.

Laura: Were you in physical pain?

Mark: Ahh, I wasn't, I mean sometime after meals, when I ate, I would often have serious stomach cramps and pains and often I would have sort of run off to the gentleman's room, and so...I mean. Yeah there was time I did have a lot of pain. Sometimes in the organs and sometimes in my legs. Sort of very strange things going on in my muscles particular numbness and I would have some pain going on.

Laura: So when did you meet your first sauna?

Mark: Well it, (laughing) it took me about 5 years of trying all kinds of things before I got to “suanaring” and detoxing. I tried a lot of chemicals, well not pharmaceuticals but I tried a lot supplementation, a lot of different dietary regiments. Just all the fads, all kinds of things, to try and you know, all kinds of different probiotics. I tried all so many different products. Finally in about, I would say probably in about year 6, after I tried well, all kinds of cleanses, all kinds of detoxes that just really hadn't done it. Eventually I came to the saunas.

That actually was something like 10 years ago now, so you know I was working with Far Reds(?), way before it was really sort of ever on the map. What I found was, what I was looking for was something that was going to restore healthy function to my organs because I knew that there was a lot of organ damage and as I said the organs weren't functioning.

Laura:  So basically what you are suggesting here is that the far infra-red  can literally restore function to damaged or even ageing organs?

Mark: As I said you know, we've been working with various doctor and clinics and it's quite interesting. What they have been finding is that there are various substances, toxins, chemicals, heavy metals  and pesticides. You name it, a cocktail of toxic substances that have accumulated  in the energy production systems. And the cells that produce energy in the body, they are actually called mitochondria. And very simply put, those cells will determine, cell replication and repair, and off course, if the energy production system doesn't work properly, the cells aren't going to repair themselves properly, they are not going to replicate properly, even shall we say the die off process whereby the body will literally kill off cells that are not longer healthy or no longer required. That whole process starts to become disrupted.

So you know, why I mention that is because when you start detoxing with the far infra-red, certainly from the work that we have been doing recently, what we have come to understand is that a lot of the substances that have accumulated in the energy system are been eliminated. So the energy production systems starts to work more normally again and hence if the body needs to repair, it's actually more able to do so.

Laura: Okay, getting back to your introduction to the sauna, you found the sauna, was it a sauna blanket or was it a.....?

Mark: No. At that time, the technology was very very different. What was being made were basically heating panels that were coated with mineral substances, whether it was quartz or tourmaline or these sort of thing.

Laura: Right and so you were like, were you lying down and being expose to these rays or were you  sitting up in a sauna? Was it ahh....

Mark: Originally, well one of the first models was actually the dome.

Laura: Okay the dome, the sauna dome.

Mark: And that was what I used. The blankets and lot of the other technology did not exist at that time.

Laura: Right, so the sauna dome was kind of like the primitive version of the blanket. [Mark: Yeah] Yeah, and how long did you do this saunas when you started? Did you ahh...?

Mark: Well the interesting thing was, when the far infra-red was originally introduced, there was no temperature controls. So effectively you were working pretty much  at room temperature . There was no real heat. You weren't looking to sweat. The original you know, a lot of the original equipment was really just to generate as I said,  to stimulate the circulation and start creating some repair in the body. And that's what happens. So what's happened, the evolution, things have changed quite a lot. Now it's been, it's sort of taken, almost like a dual function now. You are not just using it to detoxify  and repair the body. You are also using it to serve a sauna to promote sweating and detoxification. And that was something certainly in the very early days. The far infra-red worked quite independently of the temperature actually.

Laura: So basically you were using the far infra-red and not sweating, you were just [Mark: Correct] being exposed to these frequencies of light [Mark: Uh hmm] and this was without sweating, without heat, without any actually anything that you could feel with your senses that you were, your body was actually beginning to repair and restore itself. It was having a profound effect on your systems, yes?

Mark: Yeah, the far infra-red system, as I said, there was some warmth coming from that unit, don't get me wrong. There is a pleasant warmth. As I said, there was no real temperature controls and as I said in terms of sweating, that wasn't the point initially in those days. The point was to take the treatment to stimulate the circulation and to stimulate repair. And also the far infra-red without sweating would stimulate the organs and detox through the organs as opposed to through the skin.

Laura: Right through the liver and through and through the intestines and through the kidneys and so forth. Right so there you were, you were taking these treatments. Were you taking them in a doctors office or at home or ah...?

Mark: No. Ahh initially I was taking them at a practitioners clinic and uhm eventually I went on and sort of got my own unit and started doing treatments(?) for myself..

Laura: So undoubtedly the equipment that you were using then was extremely expensive. It was only something that could be purchased by a practitioner and [Mark: Uh hmm] could not be really used in the  home as the modern product can be and you were kind of tied to the schedule of the practitioner also [Mark: Uh hmm] and so then how many sessions did you do, how frequent, how long?

Mark: I started to do it quite regularly and I heard stories of some people being extremely unwell, and please, whoever is listening to this, I don't encourage you really to go and start doing saunas for hours and hours.  You know everyone response quite differently. It's very beneficial and the results have been really good but generally as I said, the way everyone response is very very individual. As I said, some people that we work with that are extremely unwell, they can only tolerate sometimes even half a minute of treatment. That's how delicate they are. Other people like yourself, they can go on for an hour, an hour and a half without any adverse effects and the effects generally are detox reactions because you are cleaning the body out and you are stimulating a huge elimination.

Laura: So if you have reactions, it's not that you are reacting necessarily to the infra-red or the treatment itself, but that your body is actually doing it's job for a change. [Mark: Correct] It's being help to detoxify these heavy metals and whatever else  is damaging your body. So there you were, you were taking these treatments, what, two three times a week...ah.?

Mark: Yeah I was doing a couple of times a week,

Laura: Couple of times a week, for how long at a time?

Mark: Maybe half and hour, twenty minutes, half and hour..

Laura: So that was sufficient even for you to get to a  point where you knew that you needed this, you needed a unit of your own so you could extend your...

Mark: Well you know, similar to yourself,  you just feel the benefits. It was tangible. You feel good. You have more energy and you noticed it. For me, I noticed that my digestion was so poor, any change I would noticed it. So a lot of the discomforts, problems, the intestinal problems that I was having, it seem to me that my intestine was starting to heal. [Laura: Yeah] And as I said I wasn't having the.., the irritable bowels started to ease off. In terms of the digestive problems, the bloating and the gas and everything, that started to ease off. 

So you know, please.... you know I was addressing the nutrition and doing some supplementation and doing some other things as well but I could actually feel when I was doing the far infra-red treatment. I could feel physically.

Laura: So how long overall did it take you to finally get to the point where you really felt good?

Mark: It was about a year, I would say about a year and a half and as I said I had been very unwell for a period of  5 years prior to that.

Laura: Right, so then...


Joe: What is the? Can I just ask a question? What is the science behind the far infra-red in terms of how it heals? You mentioned it stimulates circulation but it also heals. What is the science behind why it happens?

Mark: Could I.....most of the research is done in Japan and I mean one of the problems with that is that there are many papers that haven't been translated. But certainly from the work  that we've been doing, what I can tell you is that, going back to the mitochondrial function, the energy production system which basically powers all cellular activity. So certainly what we've been finding is that, shall we say, as the body is cleaned up, it seems as though the energy production system becomes far more efficient. There has also been tremendous amount of research that talks about the beneficial effects on the cardio-vascular system. And normally, for example heat treatment is contrary indicative(?) with heart conditions or heart problems. Well interestingly enough, all the research is been indicating that far infra-red is incredibly beneficial for a whole variety of heart problems.

And how about relates to answering your question, is that there is a dramatic improvement in circulation. And so consequently my view is that the circulation to many of the organs is dramatically improved and as the circulation is improved, because you see, one of the things that happens with toxicity is that circulation is impaired. And how that actually happens very simply is that the output, the cardiac output is reduced again because the energy producing cells in the heart are not working so well if you are toxic, which means that the heart cannot pump so effectively, which means that the circulation to all parts of the body is compromised. And the body off course is intelligent and when the heart cannot pump so effectively, the body's intelligence kicks in and says right, the heart isn't working so well, the circulation is not so good, I need to rationalize and ensure that the circulation goes to the most important systems.

 And as I said what the doctors have been explaining to us is that the first system that is compromised is the skin. That is considered in orders of priority, the first organ that, shall we say, the body considers that it can reduce circulation to, would be the skin. Hence a lot of people are toxic. They are normally..., they have cold extremities, yeah, they are normally quite cold and they don't sweat. I would say 99% of the people we work with, the skin is not really functioning very well for the reasons that I just mentioned. Is normally the skin that shuts down first. Then the body says right, if I need to shut down something else, the next set of organs that can be affected are the muscles. So hence a lot of people who are toxic for example they can  have muscle pain due to poor blood supply to the muscles and get a lot of lactic acid produced, creating discomfort and aching and pains in the muscles.

And then the next organ  that in this order by the way, that is affected would be the stomach. And so hence digestion is affected and so on. [Laura: There is a hierarchy..] So there is a sequence of events that the body will follow if there is a problem with the blood supply. And so again, answering your question, if there is a toxic problem, generally one of the first things that is affected is the heart and the amount of blood that the heart can pump around the body.  And so you know, with the far infra-red one, one of the first things that happen is that it promotes improved circulation. Very simply, the science behind it, the mechanism by which it is thought to work is the light literally is absorbed by the cells of the body and on absorbing the light, the light is transferred into heat. And one of the reason the far infra-red is particularly effective, because it is working with light, a wavelength of light, the depth of penetration into the body and into the cells is far greater than for example many other heat treatments. In terms of safety, about 50% of the energy your body produces is in the form of far infra-red. [Laura: Hmm] So its, shall we say it's user friendly.


Laura: Okay so you are, pretty well got fixed with the far infra-red. Off course there was the supplementation. We're going to come back to the supplementation issue shortly because I want to get to the point of that you became absolutely.., you'd been on a mission and you obviously began to study and research and you wanted to share this phenomenal experience that you had had with other people and that's what got you into the work that you are currently doing now because you mentioned several times, doing, working with different clinics [Mark: Uh hmm] and doctors and so forth.

So clearly you went on a mission and we'd like to hear a little bit about your mission and what you do and how you help people and how you interact with these medical facilities and these doctors and the kinds of patients that you work with and the experiences that you had seeing other people recover and the kind of problems that you've actually dealt with, with other people because you're on a mission, lets, lets.....we want to know about this.

Mark: Okay, thank you. The impact of my experience was very profound and ultimately I decided that what I wanted to do was, I wanted to share and inform people about this technology because simply as I said, it was so profound. And as I said, my experience was, my desire was to restore healthy function in conjunction with some dietary nutritional elements which are very important a well. With the far infra-red it transpired that in my opinion anyway, in a relatively short period of time I was able to restore good health and ...

Laura: And not, not just good health because I want the audience to know that Mark is a very good looking guy. (laughter in the background) I don't know how old he is but he doesn't look old enough to be able to have done all of these things and had all these adventures. I mean, he looks like he is about 25 years old at least...

Mark: About 200 actually, no, no...(laughter). As I said you know certainly, you touched on a point earlier that was really really interesting and this is a point that I am quite passionate about. Today one of the re.., from my..., the research that I've done and from a lot of the people that I've met like the doctors and people who specialized for example in anti-ageing. One of the points that they make is, off course is that generally what is happening in most peoples bodies is that the cells are dying at a faster rate than they being regenerated.

So lets just be clear on this. The ageing processes is that the cells of the body are dying faster than they are being replaced. So what I believe is possible and it seems very reasonable to me is that certainly you can begin slowing the process of destruction of the cells and you should be able to be, you should  in my opinion, that you can changed that balance. In other words  reduce the level cell death and increase the rate of cellular repair or regeneration. And consequently, and off course it stands to reason that if you can regenerate faster than the cells are dying off, then actually effectively you are  growing younger and rejuvenating.

Laura: And it seems to me that this is a real possibility because if as you mentioned, that far infra-red is the same frequency that the body itself emits, the frequency of life itself, that by introducing the far infra-red frequency into your body that you could literally be not just prolonging your life or restoring your health but literally rejuvenating yourself in completely comprehensive ways.

That's just what strikes me about it and that's certainly how it felt for me and how it feels for me because I continue to do these saunas. It's going to take me oh probably another year, maybe a year and a half like it took for Mark to get to the, the complete state of freedom from toxification. But the improvement in my case was so dramatic that like Mark, I'm pretty excited about this and that's why Mark's here because we want to share it with everybody and frankly I think that there aught to be an infra-red sauna blanket in every home but we will get to that later too. So Mark is on a mission and he began to do research and then you contacted who and how and what?

Mark: Very simply as I said, I wanted to share the tech.., I wanted to make sure that people would know about this technology and the benefit of it and very simply what I decided to do, I decided to launch a business that would primarily concentrate on informing the medical profession and practitioners about far infra-red, what it can do, how I works and present a lot of the research to them.  And that's what we've been doing and I am happy to say that there are a number of doctors and clinic that are certainly recommending the use of far infra-red and certainly we've been working with.,

Laura: Did you go around like for example and knock on the doors of doctors and say I want to tell you about this great technology or did you sent them brochures or did you get invited to conferences and give talks? How did you break thorough the resistance the obvious resistance that must exist in the medical community against something that is so phenomenal?

Mark: Well, I was very fortunate because of Sherry Rogers work. Some of the people that we know and we've been working with, and they knew of Sherry Rogers work and her references to far infra-red. So certainly that helped me. Certainly I attended certain conferences and what unfolded was that eventually I started to, for example I will be presenting in January at the Royal College of GP's in London for a chronic fatigue conference.

There will be a whole number of doctors and professionals there presenting and my piece of the pie is just presenting the detoxification in the far infra-red. So you know, it has come through conferences  and that was.....but also as I said,  I've been fortunate to meet some really amazing clinicians and doctors and practitioners who are working with the technology.

Laura: So basically what you have done up to this point in time is  to communicate with practitioners of various sorts, to explain to them, to help them understand the technology and to persuade them effectively to use it with their patients rather than going directly to, you know the patients for example and saying heh, you need this. Get one in your home today! It was, for you it was more like working through the already existing medical profession and trying to change their minds about some of these things and spread the information, is that correct?

Mark:  That's certainly how it all started off. We are working, more and more people are hearing about us which off course I am delighted with. By the time a lot of people come to us, they've been, by shall we say with the people that they've been working in the past, many of these people been told that there is very little that you can do. You are going to have to live with whatever the condition is. Many times even, people are told that actually it's all in your head and it's all psychological. And I understand why they have been told that and I understand why, shall we say many of the experiences that these people have had.

What is exciting is that, certainly the people that we work with and the way that they work, we have been finding actually they don't have to live with it. They is something they can do and very often the common factor in many of these aliments and conditions that have been very difficult to provide people some help for, we've been finding very simply that underlying a lot of these conditions they are shall we say, they have accumulated a cocktail of all kinds of toxicity.

Continued from above.   

Laura: Can you give us a brief run down of what kind of toxicity we are looking at, where people get it, where they pick it up from?

Mark: It's quite amazing. It would be easier to say where they don't get it from. (Laura...laughing) Very simply, the air you breathe, the water you drink,  the food you eat, even the hair dyes, I mean, what some of the things we started to find. Some of the chemicals that are used in hair dyes have actually shown up attached to peoples DNA. So really I mean, you are talking about food, drink, air and not only that. Think of this.

Your skin is the largest organ of your body, all right? And yes it's meant to serve as a protective barrier but also you think about it, a lot of the doctors and many practitioners use the skin for absorption. Well, think about what so many people are putting actually on their skin on a daily basis. You may say, well what I am putting to my skin is such a tiny tiny amount on a daily basis is very little.(?)

In life if you want to make (?) in your life, you make incremental changes, small changes on a daily basis and suddenly, in a few years down the road, you've made huge changes. Similarly with toxicity. You are taking incremental amounts of these chemicals and substances into the body and initially if you do it for a few days, even for a few weeks, it's not so much of a problem. But the point is, people have this habit of shall we say putting things on the skin and on the body for many many years. Year after year after year.

And unfortunately the nature of these substances that are going into the body, they are artificial, often they are man made and they are chemical in nature. And simply put the body does not have the means to eliminate these substances, so the body does the only thing that it knows how to do. It knows that these substances shouldn't be in the system, it shouldn't be in circulation, so it does the next best thing that it can do. It hasn't got the means to get rid of them so what it can, the only thing it can do is to put them in storage.

Laura: So that's what it does and that.....quite often stores them as fats and you could almost say with some degree of certainty that anybody who is overweight is probably is experiencing some sort of toxicity from environmental toxins. From their food, from their environment, from the water, from the air they breathe.

Mark: That actually is exactly accurate. In the press recently and certainly in the UK and some of the national press, they have been (?) course explaining exactly that. Very simply put, what the toxins do as you rightly say, they accumulate in the fat. That is certainly one place where they accumulate to begin with. And those toxins, off course what we've been finding is that the toxins that accumulate in the fat cells, disrupt fat metabolism.

You know, we spoke earlier about how the chemicals and the toxins have disrupted the general metabolism of the body and the energy production system. Well as a part of that also fat metabolism has been interfered with. So we come across a lot of people for example who are eating quite normally, they are quite active and yet, (for loss of money,?) they are gaining weight! There is nothing, there is hardly anything they can do about it.

Laura: I am raising my hand here.

Mark: And it is really interesting because we find that when they begin with the detoxing, they change nothing at all, they are just doing the detox and they say I'm losing weight! What's going on? And again that's very simple. The reasons for that is because they are starting to break down and eliminate some of the toxins that have been stored up in the fat.

Laura: And when the toxins are let go, then the fat goes too.....

Mark: Fat metabolism can start to kick in again, [Laura: Yeah] and it does.

Joe: Does that mean then that if people who are not overweight have [Laura: Less toxicity?] little or no toxicity?

Laura: I don't think so.

Mark: Not necessarily. It's really interesting actually because we find for example that if people are overweight, we find generally there can be some weight loss that can happen. It doesn't happen in every case. In a lot of the cases there is, or there will be as people detox, a change in weight.  But the far infra-red is really interesting. Seems to have almost a normalising effect on the body. In other words, whatever is out of balance, it seems to be that it helps to bring it into balance.

So for example, in my case, I was seriously underweight, dramatically so. And I found that when I started using the far infra-red, my digestions and simulation started to improve. My intestines started to heal up a little bit due to the improved circulation. What started to happen was I started to put on weight. So generally we find that where people are seriously underweight, it can help them restore, move to a more normal weight.

Laura: And that might mean that, that particular type of individual, they don't necessarily store their toxin in the fat but they can be stored in the tissues of say the organs or in the muscle tissues or elsewhere in the body. A person can be equally toxic and be thin [Mark: Absolutely.] as somebody who is fat. It shows that each individual.., people are individuals. There are different and their bodies react differently.

Mark:  Well, I guess as I said you know, the body is intelligent and if there is fat for the body to store the toxins in, it will put it into the fat. If the fat is not available then it will put it somewhere where it can do, whether that can be as you rightly say, it can be the muscles or the bones. The body will store it wherever it can.

Laura: Lets get a little bit on to the topic of supplementation that you do when you are doing a detox, because one of the things that Sherry Rogers talks about  when you start getting a lot of toxic heavy metals, they effectively block the beneficial nutrients that you are suppose to be getting from your food and beneficial minerals and not only do they block them but sometimes they literally push them out and take their place and, and become participants in cellular reactions that are abnormal whereas, under  ordinary circumstances, in a healthy body, they would be say this mineral involve in this process and with the heavy metals coming in and pushing it out of the way. They get involved in the process and the process goes desperately askew. So there is the problem of supplements not only getting rid of the toxic load but also supplementation. What is the, what have you found to be the main problem with a lack of nutrition or lack of minerals or what it  the thing that people seem to lack the most in these processes?

Mark: We found with people generally who are ill, we found that they are hugely deficient often in vitamins and minerals and one of the main reasons for that is the toxicity. The body uses vitamins and minerals when in it's detox processes. So off course it stands to reason that if for example somebody has been experiencing a highly level of toxicity for a prolonged period of time, that the body has gone into shall we say overdrive to try and detoxify and in that process it's been using up a rate of (noughts?) a lot of the vitamins and minerals that are in storage in your body.

Now, we find this that because of that toxic stress, many of the people that we come to work with, who have no idea of this by the way but inevitably what we find and why I stressed the nutrition and supplementation is because we find that the majority of these people are extremely deficient in vitamins and minerals. And as I said, certainly, what we're been told and what the doctors have been explaining to us is that these vitamins and minerals are essential, not only for metabolism and energy production but for the detoxification processes.

So in other words, for people, what a lot people don't necessarily appreciate is, right, now I want to detoxify. Well that's all well and good but you have to understand that you need, you have to have the fuel for the body processes to function for the detoxification. And that's why I emphasize that the nutrition and the supplementation is an important part and that's why. Sometimes people try to detoxify and they find it's not, they are having a lot of trouble and it seems as though  they are not being able to particularly successfully to be able to detox because they don't have the vitamins and the supplements  that they actually need.

And that's a very important part of the overall program. You have to have the micro nutrients in the body so that the body can number one produce the energy for the detoxification and also so  that you have the processes, the detox pathways have the minerals and the vitamins that they need. You know, number one on the list really has to be, certainly in my experience has to be magnesium. [Laura: Yeah]
Huge, huge magnesium deficiency.

Laura: Yeah. This is something that one of the  books that I came across while I was searching for some answers was Carolyn Dean's book “The Magnesium Miracle” and this really opened my eyes to the fact that magnesium is involved in so many bodily processes and enzymes processes and metabolism processes that a shortage of magnesium is, can be almost fatal. The problem there is that magnesium and calcium work hand in hand and in our society people not only do not get enough magnesium, they are getting way to much calcium and that throws the  body further out of balance.

We have a member of our group who is a cardiac surgeon, and she has told us that very often when they are doing valve replacement surgery in cardiac patients, they have to use what amounts to a bone crusher to remove the heart valve because the valves of people hearts who go in for cardiac surgery  have been so calcified that they are literally like rocks and they have to use a bone crusher to get the old heart valve out in order to be able to sow a artificial heart valve in there.

This is a shocking state and we hear everyday, you know, drink your milk, eat your yoghurt, get your calcium, calcium, calcium, calcium. Nobody ever says anything about magnesium and yet there was a Congressional report oh probably 50, 60 years ago, that, at that time said the people were so deficient in magnesium and that the soils themselves were so deficient in magnesium that there was already an epidemic magnesium deficiency in nearly all the people of the American population.

This was the Congressional report but we can assume that the same thing exist all over the world. That, people are, its epidemic, the deficiency of magnesium and this is one of the things that you were explaining to us earlier about the necessity for having magnesium in the mitochondrial processes.[Mark: Uh hmm] So could you tell us a little bit about that. What happens when somebody who is totally depleted such as a fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue patient, what happens when you give them some magnesium supplementation?

Mark: Well, I've been very fortunate to be able work with a lot chronic fatigue patients, ME patients, fibromyalgia patients, and why I say fortunate is because a lot of these people have reached a point.., it's amazing the range of debilitation. Some people are totally bed bound and they can hardly talk on the telephone. That's how little energy they have. To many other people who have been forced to, they  are not able to work any more and they spent all their time trying to restore their health.

You cannot imagine the plight of these people and unfortunately the national, well the health system doesn't really recognised, officially recognised the problem and so they don't necessarily get the help that perhaps they need from the health services. So whatever help they get, they have to pay for themselves. And consequently, you imagine, you know, you got no energy, you can't work,  you have to quit your job. Then you have to spent all your money on restoring your health but you can't work. It's not a lot of fun.

Laura: That's a pretty vicious circle and it almost seems like it's deliberate doesn't it?

Mark: Well as I said they have a lot of difficulties. As I said why I am happy when these people contact us is because certainly the doctors and the clinics that we working with really are on the cutting edge.    And this is a real condition. It's tangible. There are physical factors involved and as I said you know, one of the things that people can have done is they can have mitochondrial function analysis carried out. And this work by the way, to the best of my knowledge is only being done in the UK right now.

But you can have literally a test to examine the mitochondrial function and off course, no surprise. What we find with a lot of the fatigue people, in fact generally a lot of the people that are really quite unwell is that there is an accumulation of chemicals and toxic substances in the mitochondria that has disrupted the energy production. Some people are only producing energy maybe at 5% efficiency! And you know off course, if you are only producing 5% energy it's not surprise that you have no energy to do anything.

Laura: You can't talk on the phone!

Mark: Yeah. So but you know, what I can tell you is it's tangible, it's quantifiable. You can have these things measured and lo and behold as I said, certainly the people we've been working with who have been on the programs and (?) the doctors and the clinics and they have been doing the detoxification. And off course what we have doing we're  finding that people are starting to recover.

Laura: And how does the magnesium play a part in this mitochondrial, it's like the fuel for the mitochondria, is that it?

Mark: Yeah. The mitochondria, one of the main things they need to produce ATP which is the substances that literally releases energy. You have to have magnesium for that and inevitably off course one of the things that we find is that the magnesium levels are almost totally depleted on the mitochondria surfaces. No magnesium there, you can't even make the energy that you need.

Laura: To detox or anything else.

Mark: For any processes in the body basically. Even at rest the metabolic process that are going on, you have to be able to produce energy, but certainly for detoxification, every molecule of toxin that you are going to pull out of the body, you need shall we say a molecule of ATP or energy produced for that. So off course, if you can't produce energy for metabolism, how are you going to detox?

Laura: So probably one of the (things you) need to do would be to do something about supplementing what they are depleted in, in terms of minerals and vitamins and then work on detox.

Mark: The exciting things is that there is a package that has been developed by a lot of these doctors that they called the mitochondrial package and it's specifically geared and designed to literally re-infusing and jump starting the energy system because that's what really what you have to have happening to begin with.

Laura: What is in this package?

 Mark: There is a variety of substances and supplements and what I would say is that everyone is quite different. I am not the doctor. I am not the medical professional [Laura: Right] who is prescribing this things. But what I would say to you is, there is a range of substances and they do include for example de-ribos which is for example a sugar, and that is the sugar that is used for the production, in the production of ATP which is the energy producing substance. So literally, that is almost you could say direct food for the mitochondria to produce energy. So you know de-ribos is a particular sugar that is needed or is helpful in producing ATP which is the energy production molecule that the mitochondria actually manufactures.

So de-ribo is one. Again particularly magnesium and again one of the difficulties with magnesium is that, certainly some of the people we spoke to, what they explain to us was that, it's a bit of catch 22. If you are extremely deficient in magnesium you are not going to be able to absorb it orally. So off course everyone wants to supplement but it's a catch 22, how do you get the magnesium up? So basically there are ways doctors can increase the magnesium in the body without doing it orally.

And once the magnesium levels has been increased in the body then, you can start working with other means of supplementation because the body can start absorbing the magnesium. So magnesium is one of them, and also again actually CoQ10......

Laura: CoQ10, very interesting.

Mark: (CoQ10) is also very important. That has a lot of different functions. One of them is anti-oxidant but also it's and again I understand that CoQ10 is particularly important in the some of the mitochondrial process. There is a whole range of other substances. Vitamin D for example. Vitamin D3 to be precise. We find that a lot of people are very deficient in vitamin D which is crucial for lot of the metabolic processes and hormone production and all sort of things. And those people wouldn't necessarily think about vitamin D but it makes complete sense because off course a lot of people that are not well, there are unable to go outdoors. So they are not getting daylight and if you are not getting daylight, you are not getting what you need to produce your daily dose of vitamin D.

Laura: Wow. So some of these people are in pretty bad shape and it just like they get into a cycle, a feedback loop of just getting worst and everything they try to do just [Mark: Exactly.] makes it worst and then they try to, it's just horrifying. To think of somebody being bed bound because they simply have no energy, because what little energy they do have is just keeping them alive.


Mark: Exactly. It's actually, what the doctors have explain is that what they actually have is a secondary heart failure. What the body has actually done is literally managed the systems to the point it's basically shut down everything that it doesn't need to use and the body has got to the point where it is actually preventing heart failure. That is actually where they are.

Laura: It's just keeping the heart going and nothing else.

Mark: Well the essential systems [Laura: Right] off course the brain and the heart, the essentials systems. But a lot of these people what's happen to them, the body is functioning in a way, for example many people that are bed bound or they can hardly move, the body is ensuring that there is no stress on the heart that will cause heart failure. The body is protecting itself, that's actually what's going on.

Laura: Wow

Mark: They are actually in secondary heart failure. And as I said, particularly with the far infra-red there is so much of the research that's been done that indicates that it is particularly effective for the chronic heart failure problems.

Laura: So we're looking at this far infra-red sauna as being a possible, almost a miracle cure for people with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue and even arthritis which is kind of related auto-immune disease that probably has a problem of energy and toxicity.

Mark: The nice thing about the far infra-red is that it is anti-inflammatory and as you were mentioning for example particularly empyema and any kinds of swelling. It will bring the swelling down actually quite rapidly without discomfort. A lot of the research indicates that it is anti-inflammatory and that's directly what we have experience particularly also with regards to  pain relieve. For pain management, it's absolute, you see you are not just dealing with symptoms but it will help with pain. It will help with reducing the inflammation but again also as I said, you are improving circulation.

What I explain to people is, they come to the far infra-red with the view of detoxifying but what we explain to them and just to let you know little bit more about what we are doing, we are not just providing equipment, we monitor and supervise programs for people. As I said we've got a lot of experience in working very closely with the chronic fatigue patients, and ME patients and the fibromyalgia patients.

So what we do is we provide some support because as I said everyone's response is really quite different. As I said some people who are more active and quite well, they can stick themselves in the sauna for 45 minutes and not have a problem but there are other people who are so delicate. They can do half a minute to a minute and have the hugest detox reaction. So what we have to do is, our goal is to empower people so that they know what to do, how to do it and what to expect. So really ultimately the support that we give is to empower them so that they can do it for themselves.

And also as I said because many of the people are so critical, our key is that we wanted people to be able to do this at home. People can't travel. They can't get to clinics. They can't get to doctors. So our goal was to be able to, we wanted to provide people with a means that they didn't need to go anywhere [Laura: Right] They would be able to get the regiment and the regime and the supplementations and the  nutritional guidance from the doctors and they'd be able to do the far infra-red treatment at home.

And one of the reasons that it's so successful is that they can do it at home. And you know what, the other thing is that it's actually so nice. It's almost like been in [Laura: It's wonderful.] the warmth of the sun, that it's comfortable. [Laura: It's wonderful.] And again these people have suffered so much and experienced so much discomfort that off course to do something that actually makes you feel good, that's something quite new which is off course is helpful.

Laura: Well, okay now, lets talk a little bit about equipment because you've obviously looked at a lot of different equipment. You've done some researched on and tried out or experimented with or,  some of the doctors that you've worked with, they must have done so. And can you tell us a little bit about equipment because people are going to say well, a really good sauna blanket is, and I have to say, I think the sauna blanket is far and away better than any other type of sauna for the reasons already mentioned.  But it is a fairly expensive piece of equipment but then if  you compare it with what people spend on drugs, what people spend on doctors, I mean the sauna you can buy the sauna for maybe a couple of extensive doctors visits and medical test and a few prescriptions.
 
Mark: What we explain to people is ultimately it's way more economical than the doctors visits, the clinical visit and  a whole [Laura: And it actually works.] range of things. Well yeah, as I said, we have been getting nice results. Please don't get me wrong. I wouldn't claim for a second that it's an overnight miracle cure. But we do explain to people is that if you willing to do the work and work regularly and consistently with the treatment you are going to see some benefits.  And that's what we, generally that is what we've been saying.

Laura: So have you seen some saunas that are like maybe fake, I mean do people sells saunas that do not really deliver the far infra-red?

Mark: We had a, to begin with we had a real problem in ensuring that we got what we wanted and the equipment was made to the kind of standards that we needed. Inevitably like everything, there is all kinds of stuff being manufactured and put out there. As I said we had a lot of trouble in terms of ensuring that what we had made for us was to the kind of standards that we needed. I don't really want go into necessarily what everyone else is doing. I can only tell you what we are doing. We've been working with a lot of the doctors and clinics for many years and our equipment, what we had to have extremely good quality equipment. Is by no means the cheapest.

There's reasons for that. Again, we had to ensure that the equipment that we have been using is extremely safe and the quality is extremely high. Over the last couple of years, certainly that's been demonstrated to be the case. And certainly I have heard that there is equipment out there that isn't necessarily generating far infra-red [Laura: The real deal.] or the full spectrum that you need. As I said I can't comment on that. Those are just things that people have fed back to me. All I can tell you is that what we use and what we have has been certified and tested and we have all the certificates and as I said certainly from the results that we've been getting it sort of speaks for itself. It's very clear. We went to extreme lengths to ensure that what we have is certainly the best that we could get.

And also in terms of, as you were saying, in terms of the really the most effective unit and certainly the most popular, the blanket does fit the bill. As you said because you just get 360 degrees coverage from top to toe [Laura: Right.] and it doesn't get any better.

Laura: And you are not stress by having to sit up for any long period of time. You can lie in your bed. I put my in the bed. I watch movies while I am in the sauna. Listen to music, whatever and clearly from what you've been saying is I probably don't even need to make it so hot all the time. I still get the benefits.

Mark: The nice thing actually about the far infra-red  is that we work with a lot of people who because they don't sweat off course they  have no temperature regulation going on. So if they are experiencing a lot of heat, they overheat. They can't tolerate it. So many, we are used to working with a lot of people who can't, who don't sweat necessarily and they overheat and that's once of the reason that the far infra-red is so good, it's because you can work at less than body temperature. And you can have people sweating. You know, we have people working at 30, 32 degrees Celsius, sweating extremely and now that's less than body temperature. [Laura: Ahh]

So the way the far infra-red works is the ethicacy? of it is not really not temperature dependent. The common thinking or the conventional thinking is that oh you know if you are doing a heat treatment, it's got to be hot, and it's got to be high air temperature. But how you experience far infra-red in nature is for example if you were outside on a cold sunny winters day. Let say the air temperature is zero degrees. Look up at the sun, the air is very cold but you look up at the sun and lo and behold your face and the body start to feel warmth but the air temperature is still cold. That warmth is far infra-red  [Laura: I see.] and as I said, a large amount of the energy produced by the body is in the same form actually.

Laura: I've heard some people talking about what's it called, far infra-red shorts [Mark: Uh hmm] or scarves,  or garments and so forth. What are these things and do they work? 
 
Mark: They are very different to the equipment that we are using. And how they actually work is, you remember I mentioned earlier on that we were talking about minerals, if they are heated will generate far infra-red. Well, similarly the technology that a lot of the clothing is using is that they have a sort of ceramic fibres interwoven into the materials and literally what happens, it's working in a different way. What happens is that the far infra-red generated by your body literally activates the ceramics in the material which will then reflect back to your body far infra-red.

Laura: So you are not getting far infra-red from an outside source, you are just re-absorbing your own?

Mark: Effectively yes.

Laura: So if you really need some far infra-red  rays from some other source to kind of replenish or kind of warm you up or give you a boost, you are not going to get it from wearing a pair of shorts?

Mark: Not in that way. One of the main things the far infra-red wear or the garments, one of the reasons, it's helpful for people. Some people for example are extremely cold. They have cold hands or cold feet or cold parts of the body and they have a problem with keeping warm, it can help in that, certainly in that respect. Don't get me wrong you know. Anything people are doing, the more far infra-red they going to get, even if they are saving their own emitted far infra-red, that's going to be good but it's not working in quite the same way as shall we say having a generated  far infra-red that is going to literally charge up the body. It's helpful, absolutely and I think it's quite a good thing.

I tried a far infra-red jacket sometime ago and it was the warmest thing. I had a far infra-red quilt and I was so hot I couldn't sleep. So there are benefits. I would say that the far infra-red garments and fabrics and things, I thnk thye can be a useful part of the tool kit to help peopple.

Laura: Okay, so well, this has been a really interesting and an enlightening discussion. Do you think  there is anything that  we haven't covered for the listener that we need to touch on before we conclude this most interesting interview?

Mark: I think, one of the messages that we wanted to convey to people is a very simple message and that is, today, toxicity is a fact of life and one of the things that we are hoping to do is to inform people about what they are being exposed to in the home, in the work place, in the air, in their water. You know, it's real and how do we know it's real?

It's real because we know what we are finding. The chemicals and the toxins that have accumulated in people. And very simply if there is one thing I wanted to sort of convey to people today, just like you would go to the gym or do some physical exercise to maintain your physical health, a fact of life today, if you want to maintain and sustain good health, you are going to need to detoxify on a regular basis. Just as you keep fit, you going to need to detoxify regularly and the areas that really need  addressing are lifestyle, environment and diet.

Laura: And they way you can get a little help to do this is you can contact Mark at Get Fitt Ltd and he has a website at www.get-fitt.com and if you need to get a hold of him in a hurry, you can call him at country code 44-208-4455412.  And, again that's Get Fitt Ltd.

Mark has probably the best sauna blanket that is out there available. I've seen some that were cheaper but I don't know that I would rely on them and Mark's do come with a guarantee and if there is anything defective about the unit, you know, he's not going to hassle you around and say, oh well we'll get if fix. You sent it back and he'll sent you another one. Is that correct Mark?

Mark: Yeah and I will also add that actually we haven't had any problems. Things have gone very well and that's one of the reasons that I can talk to some, with the experience that we've had, we've had really good experience with this equipment and for us that's the most important thing. We haven't really had any problems.

Laura: I haven't had a minutes trouble with mine. Not one minute.

Mark: And just one other thing. What I would like to say also to people that, we have a lot of people come to us who don't necessarily have support from a practitioner or a doctor who understands what we've been talking about today. And certainly one part of our service something that we are very happy to do is to point people in the direction of medical professionals who really understand what we are talking about. They are living it, they are working it and they are on the cutting edge and they are helping people recover. That's what we are experiencing. People are getting better.

Laura: And Mark are you going to be writing a book for us soon?

Mark: Well it's been on the agenda and I think it's going to have to happen. (laughing)

Laura: I think so. Has anybody got any more questions for Mark. I think we've had a most enlightening talk tonight and I hope everybody enjoyed it and I hope that everybody gets as interested in feeling better and detoxifying and rejuvenating as we are, because lets face it. In this world you know, they are always finding new and better ways to poison us and we just have to be clever and figure out the ways to detoxify ourselves.

So thanks and goodnight. This is Laura signing of from Signs of the Times.