Now that we have talked about the wave in more or less "philosophical" terms, things will get a bit more intense from here on out. Events began to move rapidly in our lives which reflected in the channelling experiment in pretty remarkable ways which I will describe as briefly as possible.

Two members of our group, Terry and Jan Rodemerk, were also members of MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, and, even though MUFON is pretty much a "nuts and bolts" operation, T & J thought that some of the material coming through the experiment was worthy of being presented at a MUFON meeting. Thus, they arranged for me to speak to the group down in Clearwater where they were members.

The original arrangements that were made with the MUFON people were for an hour of time, which I figured would allow a little development of the background, some of the material, and a few questions and answers. At some point, however, for reasons that were never really made clear to me, the time was cut from an hour to 15 minutes - 20 at the most. I was in a panic wondering what I could say in 15 minutes that would make any sense at all! I was given to understand, however, that MUFON rather frowned on channelling, per se, and was more interested in the "UFO Cadillac;" you know, like a used car on a lot where you can go up to it and kick the tires. The closest thing I had to that was my own sighting, so I tried to figure how I could work that into the talk and STILL get some words in about the Cassiopaeans. (I should also note, in passing, that it was this very same MUFON meeting that Tom French described in the St. Petersburg Times article as is linked from the index page. So, it certainly was a strange event in more ways than one, as you will see.)

On the day of the meeting, (the official "coming out of the closet"), after the various business matters of the MUFON group were dealt with, and a couple of recent UFO sightings were recounted, the "Main Attraction" that we had been "bumped" for began. It was a talk about the Urantia Book channellings! The gentleman giving the "talk" passed around 15 or more photocopied pages to each individual in the audience of about 200 or so people; everyone got their own copy of Urantia excerpts. While I was waiting for them to finish passing them out, which took some considerable time, I read all 15 pages. I just thought I would give myself a head start so when the man began to talk, I would have some idea of what he was talking about. Bad idea!

As it turned out, the photocopied excerpts WERE the talk. And for the next hour and a half the man at the podium read from the 15 pages, slowly and painfully, stopping periodically to fix the audience with a gimlet eye to make sure that no one was deviating from the program of following him word by word and line by line. Each time he reached the end of a page, he paused and there was the loud rustling noise of over 200 people dutifully turning their pages in unison! This mass turning of pages actually generated a draft in the room! It was enough to drive a person mad. I was DESPERATE! I simply could NOT believe that THIS was what we had come to hear! And, when Tom French wrote in his article that he was SLEEPING during the meeting until I started speaking, you can now see WHY! It wasn't that I was so great a speaker - it was that the alternative was so awful! Of course, I shouldn't be so critical because I am sure that the man reading the Urantia Book excerpts was a very nice and sincere person who really felt that he had a mission to accomplish by convincing all of us that the Urantia Book had all the explanations of the UFO phenomenon. He just was NOT cut out to be a public speaker. His voice was a monotone, his delivery was exactly like what it was: a person reading a text, and not a very good reader at that! Tom French wasn't the only person going to sleep in that room! The only thing that kept me awake was those damned page turning episodes that sounded like 5000 lemmings assembling to march over the cliff! I was starting to wish that the man at the podium was one of said lemmings and that the cliff wasn't very far away!

But, eventually it was over; the torture came to an end and we got up to stretch our legs. After the break, Terry & Jan gave a nice, short, entertaining introduction and I talked only briefly - almost exactly the alloted 15 or 20 minutes - about the experiences that had introduced me to the subject of UFOs, including the sighting of the Black Boomerangs over my house, and so forth. Then I tried to get in a quick synopsis of the kind of material the Cassiopaeans were delivering, and how closely it coincided with much of the research being done in several fields, including UFO investigations, the only difference being that the Cassiopaeans gave background and "inside" info which tended to make the picture clearer and more comprehensible.

Another MUFON group leader was present at that meeting, and he thought that our material was of sufficient interest to deserve a longer presentation than the Clearwater group had seen fit to allow, so he arranged this with us and it was announced at the end of the meeting that we would do a "demonstration" at his upcoming meeting the following month.

We were a bit concerned about doing this in a group setting, because, up to that time, we had very carefully controlled the environment of the project, and there were so many variables involved. So, just prior to this "demonstration" and talk, we asked the Cassiopaeans about it and their response was a bit curious:

03-04-95

Q: (L) Will we be able to do a demonstration at the MUFON meeting on Saturday?

A: Yes, because it is predestined.

That was certainly curious, but, as things turned out, more curious than we ever could have supposed.

At the second MUFON meeting and demonstration, one of the more skeptical participants brought some sort of gadget up to the table where we were seated - I think it was a gauss meter - and set it up beside us. He had adjusted it to the ambient EM of the room with a full occupancy and many people standing in the rear and around the sides. (I want to explain that it has taken me several days to get this page on the website because I wanted to transcribe the tapes of that meeting so that the reader can sort of have a "fly on the wall" insight as to what was going on at the time.)

Jan gave a short introduction where she explained that she was not a "believer," and even had many doubts about the UFO/Alien reality. This was due, she explained, to her lack of having ever had any kind of personal "experience." However, because her husband, Terry, was very deeply involved in studying such phenomena (having had a number of his own experiences through the years), in solidarity with him, she had become involved in MUFON and was, at the time, the acting Secretary of the Hillsborough/Pinellas Counties chapter. She and Terry also edited, published, and often wrote articles for, the area MUFON newsletter.

But, even so, as Jan confessed, she was NOT a believer, though she found the ideas presented by the Cassiopaeans to be fascinating.

After Jan's few remarks, she turned the podium over to me and I went through a brief recapitulation of the long process we went through over several years before the Cassiopaean contact was established. I then began to try and explain what the material was imparting to us in the form of "explanations of the order of the Universe," so to speak. Do keep in mind that this was VERY early in the experiment - we had only been receiving the information about 9 months at the time of these talks, so the fact was that even WE didn't know the full scope of what was going to come in the next few years! I will insert here the transcript of my talk from this point:

In terms of accessing who and what you are in totality, one of the thing's the Cassiopaeans have said is that, originally, the human being was created with more active DNA than they currently operate with. An event occurred that has been remembered by all the cultures around the world as "The Fall," or the loss of the Edenic state, and this was primarily due to, depending on the cultural myth being examined, a snake, serpent or dragon, whatever. But, it is generally a scaly, reptilian type of being. What the Cassiopaeans have said indicates that there may be more to this than mere mythical conceptualization!

The Cassiopaeans have talked about the fact that the DNA can be reconstructed or reconnected because it is still there, it is just broken up or "de-activated." The important elements of this process include oxygenation, spinning or centrifuging, as well as certain activities such as meditation, and gaining knowledge.

One of the things that I have experienced recently has been pretty interesting in terms of this idea. After my accident I began to have a lot of body work done, including different types of "energy work," and at certain points, this began to affect me in strange ways. After one of these sessions of energy work, for about seven days or longer, it felt like a water main was attached to my solar plexus, and was pumping in memories and emotions from every lifetime I had ever lived; I mean hundreds and thousands of images! Everybody says "oh, I want to remember my past lives!" but think again! I got to experience every emotion of entire lifetimes with this review! It was so bad that I thought I was going to drown in it and die! I would sit there - and everybody will tell you that I was a horror to be around during that time - rocking in my rocking chair saying "Oh God! Oh God! I can't stand this! Please let it stop! Let it stop!" Images of people, places, events, castles, knights, charging into battle on a horse waving a battle axe; deserts, jungles, death, destruction, diseases, plague, pestilence; all these kinds of things just flashing by, like Dorothy in the tornado; all this stuff flying by! Meanwhile, the emotion of every one of these images was hitting me full force! I might have seen the image for only one second, but the entire emotion that went with it would hit me and I was gasping and choking from one incident to the next, one after another after another. So, at one of the sessions we asked just what it was that was going on with me... I was about to collapse under the strain - and the Cassiopaeans said: "Oh, you just activated more of your DNA!" Well, fine! Stop it! Take it back! No more! I can't handle it!

But, apparently, that is what having this knowledge can do! It is a condition of being able to access universes of information! The Cassiopaeans have said: "It's FUN to access..." and I asked them: "Fun for WHO?!"

After a few more remarks, I turned the podium over to Terry, but I do want to mention the fact that my description of the events of my state of "remembering" as being similar to Dorothy in the tornado is something that I had forgotten entirely until I transcribed the tapes in just the past few days.

Terry introduced himself and made several remarks about having attended some of the early experimental sessions PRIOR to the Cassiopaean connection and that he and Jan had more or less given up on the project because nothing seemed to be happening during that time. It was only later, after the Cassiopaeans came through, that I was able to persuade them to have a look at the material. I valued their insight and input because I knew that both of them were as skeptical as I was and I certainly felt in need of a "second opinion," not wanting to fall into the "true believer" trap that is so common nowadays. After his intro, Terry made the following remarks:

You can tell by now that there is a LOT of information here. I've been rambling on for the past 20 minutes here and there is more. It doesn't matter where you start with it, you end up having to explain the whole thing. At this point, there is 9 months worth of material and in another 3 months we'll have to explain a whole year's worth because the Cassiopaeans continue to give new information - they add to it as we learn to ask the questions correctly. As my wife has said in her remarks, neither of us were great believers in channelled information and it took several months for Laura to get us up to her place to see what was going on. We had been up a couple of times before during the early experiment stage and had gotten nowhere. We live down in St. Pete and that's a long drive to make to come up for the evening, to sit around and have nothing come through.

When we finally came up Laura told us, "you're not gonna believe what this is doing." We came up in November - they've been receiving the Cassiopaean information since July - and I watched for a little while seeing this little thing move around on the board. I mean, it bounced around all over the place; I never saw anything move that fast! A mouse trying to get awary from my six cats is about the only thing I've seen move as fast as that little thing moved on the board!

So, I sat down. They let me sit in for awhile just so I could put my hand on it. I wanted to touch it; I wanted to see what it was. And I sat there for about 25 minutes or so and my arm was tired! I work with computers and I'm used to "mousing" (speaking of mice), on the computer, pointing and clicking and all that, all day long. My arm had moved around this board so fast for 25 minutes or so, that I actually had shooting pains in my shoulder from it because I wasn't used to that position for that length of time. I couldn't believe how quickly it moved. I couldn't believe the amount of energy I could feel running through that little section of the room.

Since then, I have noticed that it is not just one person; it's not just those people sitting at the board, it's a combination of all the people in the room; all the people in Laura's house, for that matter. The more people, the more energy, and the faster it goes. Twice the planchette flew off the board. On New Year's Eve, there were a whole bunch of people there and there was so much energy - just loose energy, not directed energy because people were just milling around, it was a New Year's Eve party - and we couldn't keep the planchette on the board. It was flying back and forth so fast it flew right off the table and sailed through the air. We picked it up, put it back down, and it was across the board again. It took about 20 minutes for the energy to settle down so we could get any kind of information. Then, the information may or may not have been that good because all the people in the room weren't concentrating. It was loose energy in the air.

A couple of weeks ago a couple people came up who are involved in UFO research and they understand energy flows and how to direct it. And, we had the same experience. The Cassiopaeans told us then that it would take time to settle the energy and direct it because there was just so much of it. That little planchette was sailing again... flew off the table a couple of times and through the air. It went off the table with so much force it just kept going... took us a good 25 minutes to get it settled down again. They told us: "you've fractured the channel." I guess that the "wire" that runs between here and 6th density got increased in size the other night. We rewired it for sure!

Laura: It physically affects us, too, because we can FEEL this energy.

Question from the audience: Is there any dizziness effect?

Laura: No, no dizziness. It feels more like warm drafts of air against the skin, and then an elevated feeling.

Question: Is it like euphoria?

Laura: No, it's more of an intense, mental sharpness... a focus to the nth degree.... it actually energizes us. We've done sessions that lasted up to 8 hours, tape after tape, and no one was tired!

Question from audience: Have you had other movements in the room during the sessions, like objects falling off shelves or something?

Laura: No, we haven't. We've actually asked that question and the Cassiopaeans have said that if there were such movement, it would be strictly energy from the lower chakras. We aren't dealing with that level here. If you get poltergeist type phenomena, you can pretty well figure the level it comes from. But, of course, during the early phases of the experiment, we DID get some of that type of activity. On one occasion, a candlabra flew off a shelf, and several other things went crashing around. It was real unpleasant energy. That is the sort of thing we worked to get beyond.

Terry: We aren"t even sure who or what the Cassiopaeans are. They say they are 6th density and that they are "us" in the future - but, that may not be the case. We aren't going to sit here and believe it just because they say it. We are presenting it that way because that is THEIR description. We don't make the mistake of believing everything that is coming through, we are just presenting the information. We are still wondering what it is we have tapped into. Is it some kind of universal, Cosmic Retrieval System? Is it some kind of universal computer? Is it the Jungian archetypal consciousness? What we have tapped into we don't know.

What impresses me about it, even beyond the confirmations we have gotten on different material, is the consistency of the information. There are reams of material already, and it is consistent right across the board. It doesn't vary in level. It's not like a contact that is extremely intelligent one week and super dumb the next. It's consistent, uniform and has continuity.

Laura: One exception, I would point out: if there are people are in the room who would be upset by any particular information, the Cassiopaeans will more or less "hold back," and will suggest that we ask it later. It is rather like a courtesy to the person in the room who is not prepared to hear the answer. When it's just us, information comes through that might not come with new people present.

Terry: They will also not permit children to be present as they have indicated that such activities can be detrimental because the energy levels that are generated are too much for the "young circuits," so to speak.

Question from audience: Your sources are obviously champions of Free Will. Obviously, that is the way the universe is supposed to be. Have they given you any reconciliation as to why our density seems to have been interfered with in terms of Free Will? I know there are a lot of sources that say that we agreed to be abducted before we came here, but that's just a little bit too thin, in my opinion.

Terry: What we have been told on that is that this universe was created as a Free Will Universe. It was created specifically to allow all souls to do whatever they wish to do; they have complete choice about what they wish to do. The Grays, the Lizards, whoever they are who abduct and put implants in people, have the right to do that because it's their free will to come here and do that to us. And, they have the right to tell us whatever they want to tell us to rationalize their behavior. Our right is to NOT believe what abducting entities tell us. We have free will to believe or not believe them. If they tell us in one lifetime that they have the right to do this to us, and we choose to believe them then, and then, in this lifetime, they try the same tricks and we choose NOT to believe them, in each case, we are exercising our free will and so are they. This is a Free Will universe. We can change our mind. They are trying to convince us that we have no choice in that; whether we believe them or not is OUR choice. There's more to it than that, of course, because interfering with us physically, obviously, goes on all the time. They have more power than us physically, or pseudo-physically. It is the same relationship between us and animals in our reality. Cows and sheep and chickens have Free Will, too, but we have more power than them and we have convinced them (and ourselves), in our need to consume food, that "this is good for for you, this is your purpose in life." Just as we consume animals, so are we consumed by those in higher densities than ours. But, for the most part, it occurs in terms of energy, and not specifically flesh, though that too occurs. We are part of a food chain, so to speak, and we are NOT at the top by any means!

Anyway, back to 300,000 years ago: there was a battle between the forces of Service to Others and the forces of Service to Self at all different levels of density. Unfortunately, the forces of Service to Self won the battle. The Lizards are 4th density Service to Self beings. They can come to 3rd density, but they can only sustain themselves here for a short time because their technology does not allow them to extend it any further.

[Laura's note: Due a great deal of confusion regarding the following, please see Transient Passengers before continuing with this narrative.]

At 4th density, they are still using technology, they are still learning para-physical things. They have subjugated us; they have implanted us; they have taken our DNA and manipulated it so we won't remember who we are and what we can really do. Barbara Marciniak's book, Bringers of the Dawn, covers much of that information. The Cassiopaeans have said that when Barbara communicated with her Pleiadians, she was communicating with - there is this thing out there called a Realm Border, it's a wave, a wall, a frequency of some kind that's like a doorway between the different densities - the Cassiopaeans, the Pleiadians, and whoever transmit through that - it expedites their ability to transduce from 6th density down to 3rd - at the time Marciniak was channeling her information, this wave was located in the region of space of the Pleiades, and they called themselves Pleiadians to give a reference point. As we perceive it, this window is now passing through what we call Cassiopaea. When it was in the region of Arcturus, they called themselves the Arcturians. At some point they were the Orions, though I don't remember what the order is. As it gets closer and closer, it gets stronger and stronger, and apparently, there are people destined to be these contact points. The closer the wave gets to us, the clearer the signal becomes. The next stop, according to the Cassiopaeans, is Leo. Of course, the stars in the constellations are not all the same distance, so we have refined the reference points to specific stars or groupings.

Anyway, the Lizards have created the Grays. They are 4th density also. They have no souls; they are robots. The Grays were created in such a way so that the Lizards could send them into 3rd density as projections, so to speak. They can project some portion of their own energy into the Grays so that when they are in 3rd density, they are not only a robot being controlled by them, they are actually "in it," so to speak, looking through it's eyes. It may even be that several Grays constitute the energy of a single Lizard portion. The whole purpose of the subjugation of humans by the Lizards is that they use us as food. The old John Lear/Bill Cooper stuff about the vats of body parts may have some truth to it. But, mainly, they take energy. They want our energy. That's what they feed on in 4th density because they are basically energy beings in 4th density. They feed on energy. There is positive energy, there is negative energy. Service to Self beings in 4th density feed on negative energy produced by 3rd density beings, and even 1st and 2nd density beings on occasion. They like us because we have emotions. Emotions generate energy. That's why you're always reading that the Grays seem to be "so interested in our emotions! Our love, our hate, our this and that." They control us and create situations that produce negative energy. The more negative energy they can create, the more food they have. That's what the whole purpose is.

There is another purpose also: they covet the idea of being 3rd density physical/material beings. They haven't done it in a long time, and the physicality of it is just so attractive to them because they are so hung up in Service to Self, that part of the plan is to create a new race for themselves.

What you have to understand is that we have so much information here, and we are still trying to dig through it and understand what it is they are telling us. They have given us a massive amount of information. It's to the point now, that when we do a session, not only do we ask questions, but it turns into conversations. It's not like what you normally do with a Ouija board - you know "am I gonna get rich?" "Yes." "Am I gonna be poor?" "No." "Am I gonna get in a car wreck?" "Yes." And that kind of stuff. It's really like sitting around with a bunch of people and talking. We talk. They will talk to us. We can ask a question, get an answer, and then be talking about the answer amongst ourselves, and they will comment on our comments, interject remarks, agree or disagree with our analysis.

What we are trying to talk about today - and this is the first time we have done this in such a large group - is that we are still trying to work through all this information. When you sit around the house talking about something: say you say "we're gonna talk about politics" and you're sitting there talking about politics - and somebody says something and you say "oh, that reminds: did you see the sale down at the store?" and the discussion goes off on the subject of the sale, and you say "yeah, I got a hammer," and that leads to "I was working on the house," in the way that conversations do - going off in tangents all over the placee. You may never talk about politics again after the first few remarks. Well, our sessions are like that, too. We may start with a topic, and one thing will lead to another, which leads to another, which takes us out someplace else, so the information we have in the raw transcripts is all jumbled together that way - like a free-form, stream of consciousness type thing, and we have to go through this and piece it together again. It's like a big jigsaw puzzle of questions and answers and comments and information that's all mixed together. We have to go through and transcribe all this information, it's all in notebooks and on tapes and Laura has spent a lot of time sitting there trying to transcribe the tapes and comparing what is on the tapes to what is in the notebooks. It's a long and tedious process because, when there is a large group, she has to identify the voices and put the right names in place so we know who is saying what. We have here 155 pages in 10 point type, and that's just up to over a month ago. We have to be able to sort all of it out and understand it ourselves so that we can go back and ask intelligent questions about points that have not been covered completely.

Jan: Yes, and they always remember when they have already told us something. We may argue, but if we go back and look, sure enough, it's there!

Laura: Yes, and if a question gets asked and then six months later, a different person asks the same question, the Cassiopaeans will tell us to go back and review. They will say "bring so-and-so up to speed."

Terry: Yes, they will us to go back and look it up.

Jan: One time they told us, NO! Stop! Listen! Wait! - trying to get our attention because we were off on a question spree - and they said: YOU have the answers! They told us specifically to stop channelling, sit there and talk the matter over. They told us that we could find the answers by "networking."

Laura: Yes, so we spent an hour or more talking about the subject and by the time we got through, we realized that we did, indeed, know the answer.

Terry: The bottom line of what they seem to be trying to tell us, which we are trying to "get," which "we" in 6th density are trying to help "Us" in the present to do, is to understand that, within the next 20 years or so, this Realm Wave, this window, so to say, is going to arrive. And, when it arrives, we will have the opportunity to move from 3rd to 4th density as a group, as opposed to individually, on at a time through any number of lives. If, and when, we are able to do this, the object is first: to get us to move, but second: this is part of the counterattack against the Lizards from the Service to Others beings who are trying to get us back in the realm of freedom. They can't interfere with Free Will, but if they can inform enough of us, and we can make a Free choice to move back, it will break the Lizard's hold on the human race. The object seems to be to break the Lizard hold on the human race. At that point, whether this works or not, whatever happens in 3rd density, happens. And then, the whole focal point of the campaign moves to somewhere else in the universe, because they are doing this in other places. This is NOT the only place that this is happening.

Laura: And don't get the idea that this is something terrible. Are you all familiar with the Yin-Yang symbol, the black half and the white half? This is really what this is all about. We don't need to look at it as though it is really an actual battle, though in some terms, expressed at this density, it displays that way as well as in Earth Changes. What it is is that for over 300,000 years we have been in the Service to Self realm, or the dark half of the circle. Now, the cycle is coming around. You have to remember that we are just doing this, as the Cassiopaeans say, "for fun!" [Laughter.]

Now, we are gonna take a break, and after the break we are going to try to demonstrate - I don't know if it is going to work - but we are going to try. We don't want any personal questions. Don't ask what house you are gonna buy next year. Try to come up with some good questions, write them down for us, and we will see what happens.

During the break we set up the board and arranged the chairs with everybody in their proper alignments according to the compass points. Laura sits at the East, Frank at the North, Terry at the West, and the South position is open. I was really nervous when we sat down because I had no idea if things would work in a different location or not. But, after a few seconds of contact, the planchette began to spiral around in large circles, finally going to the word: "Hello."

Q: (L) Hello.

A: New location?

Q: Yes, it's a new location, indeed. Where do you transmit through?

A: Cassiopaea.

Q: Are you having difficulty operating in the new location?

A: Some but should stabilize.

Q: (L) We have questions from the audience. Shall we begin?

A: Sure!

Q: The first question here is: "In which density is our astral existence?"

A: 5th, density of contemplation, you did not explain that one, did you?

Q: Yeah, we forgot to explain that. Sorry.

A: Okay. Explain 5th now please.

Terry: 5th density, is where souls go when they die. When you leave your physical body in any one of the first 4 densities, your soul moves to 5th density. They call it the contemplation density. That's where you go, and you get to review the life you have had, and learn from it, and decide what it is you want to do next when you incarnate next. In the chain of densities, one through seven, the souls exist in 1 through 4 and in 6th, actively, and in 5th density passively. Did I get that right?

A: Yes.

Q: (Member of audience) What energy are they using to create the conduit?

A: Open frequency EM wave.

Q: (Member of audience) Is there a mathematica formula for creating the conduit? If so, what is it?

A: Create one at your leisure!

Q: (L) I guess if you want a mathematical formula, you are supposed to create one at your leisure! [Laughter] (J) That's humor, I guess.

A: Not totally humor!

Q: (Member of audience) Is it beyond our current scientific level?

A: Yes.

Q: (Question from audience) What exists in inner earth region as reported by Admiral Byrd?" Well, I think we should add "allegedly" reported by Admiral Byrd.

A: Cross awareness "window."

Q: (L) So, a window exists in the inner earth region?

A: Did for Admiral Byrd at that instance.

Q: (L) So, he passed through an awareness window?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) What is an awareness window?

A: You have been told.

Q: (L) Yes. It's in the transcripts.

A: Realms can be accessed at will if awareness balance is proper.

Q: (L) If awareness balance is proper, "cross awareness window" means that you can cross over in awarness to another realm. Is that right? Let me break it down: does this mean that if your awareness is balanced, you create a "window?"

A: Close.

Q: (L) Can this happen to a person spontaneously?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) It is not something that you necessarily have to work for, it can happen to anyone, anytime...

A: Unlikely.

Q: (L) So, it CAN, but without some preparation, is unlikely to happen. Okay, next question: "After seventh density is the Big Bang, and everything starts all over again?"

A: Close and partial. Grand Cycle access.

Q: (L) You mean that 7th Density is a "Grand Cycle Access?"

A: No, review.

Q: (L) Seventh Density is the Big Bang and it all starts all over again and that is the Grand Cycle? There is really no beginning or end, just an endless cycling?

A: No. Grand Cycle is self explanatory to 6 people here.

Q: (L) I guess I'm not one of them. (A member of the audience here gives an explanation, but it is impossible to decipher it from the tape as they were apparently in the back of the room. It sounds something like "at Seventh Density there is a window of Access to the Grand Cycle.")

A: Yes.

Q: (Question from audience) What is the true age of the Great Pyramid? (L) That's already been given.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I believe the figure that was given was 10,600 years ago, more or less. (Question from audience) Where do alien craft go when seen going into water such as lakes, rivers, the ocean, etc. Where do they go?

A: Variable.

Q: (Member of Audience) Where did the one go that I saw at Longboat Key? Where are they going off Longboat Key?

A: Non-specific.

Q: (L) Different destinations? (T) Are some of them going to a base?

A: Not there, but remember, you are talking about dual density cross-transference, therefore "rules" for 3rd density do not always apply.

Q: (Question from audience) Are they using the ocean water as a conduit or window?

A: Maybe but not the only "method."

Q: (T) So, they could be doing about anything down there once they have entered the water.

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Including just sitting there waiting.

A: Why not?

Q: (Question from audience) Did you ever ask them who built the Great Pyramid? (L) Yes, we did. The response was Atlanteans.

A: Descendants of same.

Q: (Question from audience) Did they ever tell about the purpose for the pyramids?

(L) Yes, they did. First of all, the Atlantean civilization existed for a very long time and was quite extensive all over the globe, not necessarily confined to the semi-legendary "continent of Atlantis." Apparently, interplanetary travel was as easy for the Atlanteans as it is for us to take a trip to the store. They had bases on the Moon, bases on Mars; the monuments of the Moon and Mars are Atlantean in origin; they also had some of their giant crystals on the Moon and Mars, and these were used to collect Cosmic and Solar energy as a power source. We have talked about locations of such crystals on the Earth and why they were not destroyed in the cataclysms that destroyed Atlantis and the answer was that the engineered function of these crystals was such that massive amounts of energy interacting with them is absorbed and transmuted, so to speak. If you put an atomic bomb on one of them, it would absorb the energy and transduce it. It was the design function. When we asked if our present technology could decipher how to use these crystals, and the response was "would a Neanderthal know how to fly a 747." [Laughter] So, when we are talking about the Atlanteans, we are talking about a super advanced civilization and the descendants of them, after the destruction that occurred which destroyed this amazing culture, built these pyramidal shapes, which had a similar function as the pyramid shaped giant crystals, though much less effective. In other words, the Pyramids are simply gigantic machines. They were used to manipulate energy to control weather, power the many things that a civilization requires to be considered "advanced," to preserve and transmute or heal. Just a whole host of energy applications similar to what we do with electricity. But, still, it was a step down from the far more advanced Atlantean technology, and as time went by, other things occurred, and event his knowledge was lost.

(Question from Audience) Is there a giant pyramid, or a step pyramid in China?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Can you give us some information about this pyramid?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Was it built by Atlantean descendants also?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I think that the Atlantean civilization was much like our present one... it didn't really denote a specific place, though there may have been the equivalent of the "Western technological world" as is America, at the present time. In fact, when we asked about the population of the world at the height of Atlantis, the answer was that it was pretty much the same as it is now, over 6 billion. We then asked how many were left after the destruction and the figure was either 19 million or 119 million. I screwed up in the transcribing and will have to go back to the tape to get it right. Well, which was it?

A: 19 million.

Q: (L) That is a serious reduction from 6 billion.

(Question from audience) In all the varying transitions between 1st and 6th density, does any soul every perish, or become extinguished?

A: No.

Q: (T) We asked about this at several points. Apparently all souls began at the same point in "time," and all will be returned to 7th density at the same time. No new souls are being created, and no souls are ever destroyed, they merely change from state to state according to their "lesson profile," or what they have learned or need to learn and experience. (L) Yeah. That's the good news; here's the bad news: those that don't graduate to 4th density on this pass of the Wave get to do 3rd density all over again, in its entire cycle. [Laughter]

(Question from audience) Have you ever asked about why there is so much suffering here on earth? (L) Yes, and it's not Eve's fault!

(Question from audience) Well, I don't know about others, but if there is a utopia out there somewhere, I'd rather be there and never come back here again! And what you are telling me is that, even though we go back to 6th density, we have to come back again.

(L) No, that's 5th density - contemplation level. You make the decisions there, and if you are here, it's because you chose to be here. But, the only way to get out of the cycle of the 3rd density Service to Self level, the consumption level where you must feed on others - and that is really the bottom line there - you must transcend that issue, the physicality. You become an energy being who only gives conjoined with other beings who also only give, and in such symbiosis, no one ever lacks. But, yes, there is a very definite reason for the suffering at this level and Terry touched on it awhile ago - the dominance of the Reptilian beings who feed off of us for the past 300,000 years. They dumbed us down, implanted control impulses in us such as jealousy, greed, avarice and so forth, so that we would constantly generate negative energy while they are sitting there in 4th density with a straw just slurping it up! "Yummy!" So, when you feel yourself going into negative states, if you want to transcend it, all you have to really do is understand that it is not YOURS. You don't "own it." Yes, it is part of the physicality of this density, but it is a physicality that has been genetically tampered with so that such emotions will dominate. You can NOT act them out, you can refuse to be controlled by such states, you can CHOOSE to be other, even if it requires something of an inner struggle between the choice of the soul and the wants of the flesh which are pretty clever at being rationalized by the brain so that we don't see what is really going on very clearly at all.

(Question from audience) So, we actually chose to accept this state of being at some point, and now we can choose otherwise?

(L) That's exactly right. Each moment, we have the choice of accepting the Lizzie program, or to follow a different line of choices. The mass of humanity, the group - and we have been told that the Legend of Lucifer is the story of this choice and refers to the human race - made this choice. I don't know about you, but I've had enough. I think I changed my mind! [Laughter]

At this point, a member of the audience has taken Terry's place at the board. This was the "skeptic" who, at the beginning of the session had set up his little meter beside the board on the table.

Q: (L) Okay, we have a new person at the board...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) We have a question here from somebody about Walk-ins, and before I ask it, I would like to ask a sort of "pre-question." My question is: how often does something along the idea of a "walk-in" occur?

A: Rare.

Q: (L) Yes, it was a very popular idea, and still is. I mean, how easy can it be to say "oh, I didn't do that! It was the former occupant of this body!" Or, "I can do THIS now, because I have just taken over this body. I'm not a trashman, I'm really a brain surgeon, so hand me a scalpel!" and that sort of thing. People were creating all kinds of exotic and elaborate "backgrounds" for themselves, and as I heard these stories, they got wilder by the day! "I'm Prince or Princess So-and-So from the Planet Hoogabooga! Make obeisance, peasant!" How bizarre can it get?

(Question from audience) Have you asked about actual, physical life-forms on other planets, or is it just us here in the Universe?

(L) Yes, we have, but let's get in this question we have already. It says: "Are any of those who claim to be Walk-ins really so?" And, we sort of answered that already. Yes, it CAN happen, but is very rare. The question continues: "If so, who are they specifically? My friend in Longboat Key, Gail ____, is she one?"

A: No.

Q: (L) Well, so much for that. (Addressing audience member who is nodding her head vigorously) Did you know that already? (AM) Yes. I just wanted to make sure.

(Question from new participant at the board, AB) Given the amount of destruction the Reptilians have done to our DNA, what can we do to repair it? Is there a diet adjustment?

A: Maybe. It is open to the individual to experiment and discover.

I should note that the energy, at this point, was quite fractured with the new person at the board and the planchette was moving very slowly.

Q: (L) I think that the conduit has to be readjusted to the new energy.

A: Yes. Note Light waves in device.

Q: (L) You mean the meter beside us? Turn it around so we can see it. (T) What is the bottom of the range? (AB) .1, .2 is the ambient. It's been hitting peaks of 5 at times before I sat down. That's micro-gausses. (J) What light waves are you referring to?

A: Near window.

Q: A space/time window? [There was no physical window in the room.]

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I think that this is in response to your question about DNA. We are supposed to notice that the meter is measuring some sort of energy and that this represents lightwaves near the "window" or conduit that is established by the channelling, and that this is one of the things that can change DNA. I don't think that eating or drinking one way or another can make a difference, it is what is inside - which, in a sense CAN change what you eat or drink, but it is a change that comes from a different direction than a change that is done deliberately in order to alter DNA. They have said that light waves alter DNA. (AB) What specific light frequency?

A: 6 pt 5

Q: (AB) Angstroms?

A: Yes.

Q: (AB) That's actually the frequency of a medium red neon laser. A laser is a monochromic frequency. It's like one of those laser pointers. It puts out only one color, one exact frequency. 6.5 would be mid-orange?

A: Yes.

Q: (Question from audience) What are certain people in our government and our military gaining by being more conspiring than lucid?

A: Open.

Q: (T) Many things. Is there one thing in particular that they gain from this?

A: As we know, answer is dangerous.

Q: (T) We've gotten several answers like that when we touch on sensitive questions.

At this point, the tape ended, and we ended the "demonstration session" that was supposed to have been "predestined." Was it? What were the ramifications aside from the fact that the small, local MUFON group had the largest attendance ever in its existence?

As it turned out, there were interesting developments shortly thereafter.

Two months following this session, we attended another meeting of the local MUFON group where a physicist, Prof. Ruggero Santilli, was scheduled to speak. At that same meeting were many of the people who had attended our "demonstration," and some of them gathered around during the break to ask us further questions about the experiment in channelling. Prof. Santilli joined them, was given a brief synopsis of the situation, and was intrigued enough to ask to attend a session. As it happened, we were planning one that very evening, so after the meeting, we all drove back to the house with Prof. Santilli and his wife following, and settled down to see what would happen. The session is posted elsewhere on the site, but to save loading time, I will paste it in here:

The Santilli Session

May 27, 1995

Frank, Laura, Jan and Terry, Carla and Roger Santilli

Q: (T) We have some company this evening. Roger and Carla Santilli are with us. Roger has some questions to ask.

A: Hello, Roger.

Q: (RS) Hello. I want to know whether we can have any clues on the propulsion systems of UFOs?

A: Sure!

Q: (RS) What's the mechanism of the propulsion?

A: This is difficult to answer when posed in such a manner, as we are talking about multiple realities, density levels and various modes as well!!

Q: (RS) Is the gravity experienced by an anti-particle in the field of matter attractive or repulsive?

A: Repulsive when thought of in the way that is parallel to your studies, but, as we alluded to in the previous answer, there are more realms involved besides the one with which you are most familiar.

Q: (RS) The next question is: particles move, matter moves, in our direction of time, do anti-particles, anti-matter, flow backward in time?

A: Think of it as merely one seventh of the equation, Roger!

Q: (L) Can we get an answer on whether this is the case strictly on the third level of density?

A: Backward.

Q: (RS) Yes! I am interested in the propulsion systems of UFOs, the only way that I can perceive travelling the long distances involved in interstellar space is to have what is called a "space/time" machine. We cannot move the enormous distances unless you can fold, somehow, time and space. You cannot fold space unless you join it and fold time. You cannot have interstellar travel unless you have a space/time machine. But, a space/time machine means to also have the ability to move forward and backward in time, to manipulate time.

(L) Yes, you would have to cross distances and simultaneously move backward through time so that you would end up arriving wherever you are going essentially at the same moment that you left.

(RS) That is why I asked whether we can use anti-matter as a propulsion, because it would be repulsive in the right direction. The second question whether, when we use anti- matter, we would move backward in time. Because, some of those objects, you see them moving, and they can be moving in space but not in time, or they could be moving in time but not in space. If you see a UFO, it does not mean that it is in our time. It could be in a completely different time.

(L) And, they disappear sometimes right before the eyes of the observer, and the question is: where do they go?

(RS) They could be standing still in space, but moving time. Or moving backwards.

(L) And, there are a lot of abductions reported where there is seemingly no time lost at all. They come in, haul the victim out, do whatever they do, and then they slide them back in a fraction of a second away, if not at the identical second they took the victim out!

(RS) Yes! This article I presented is exactly about this point! If, indeed, anti-particles have lift, then necessarily they have to go backward in time. Then they manipulate this: you can have an abduction any length of time inside the craft, but in our time, in our level three, it is zero time!

(L) Yes, exactly! And not only that, there is the phenomenon of the craft that looks small from the outside, but inside is huge!

(RS) That is all tied up in it! This is very exciting. I am learning the language. In our third level, the motion in space and time occurs via the change of the unit of time and space, therefore, can we change the unit?

A: Yes, this is precisely what we mean when we speak of "transiting from 4th to 3rd."

Q: (RS) So, when they travel from 4th to 3rd, they change the units. That is precisely what is in the article in the journal! [Holds up book.] This is published in the Ukraine, [turns to page and displays diagrams and equations] this is the experiment to test anti-gravity. There is a two mile long tunnel which is a vacuum inside. They suck the air out. The first measure is to shoot photons to identify, at the end of the two mile tunnel, the no gravity point. The second measure is to shoot a neutron, and we know that a neutron is attractive. So, after two miles, the energy is very, very low. So, there is no gravitational effect when the neutron hits the point. Then, the third step is to shoot an anti-neutron at the same time and see what happens. This experiment will resolve this issue that this board has answered very scientifically. We call it the gravity of anti-particles because we don't know. It can be down... Einstein predicts this as attractive as a neutron, anti-matter and matter have the same gravitational attraction. That's what Einstein says. But, when Einstein's theory was proposed, in 1915, anti-matter wasn't discovered until 50 years later. If now, theoretically, the only way a particle, in our theory, can go up, can have lift, is if time is reversed. There is no other possibility. So, if this experiment is correct, then the space/time machine is absolutely a consequence and can be tested in a laboratory. You can have a particle moving backward and forward in time. [Displays new diagram.] This is the other experiment which is, in this case, is done by putting a particle which is neutral and subjecting it to... since we don't have a bunch of anti-matter - ideally we would have a pellet of matter and replace it with anti-matter - we don't have a pellet of anti-matter, at this point, there are ways to do it though and it can be measured as to which way it moves, up or down. Now, the question of the units, it is very important, a fundamental question, because, say, you are outside a UFO, and you see the UFO as big as a car, say, and people go inside and report this enormous interior. There is no other way to do this than by changing the unit. What is for us one inch, that unit is completely different inside. For us the unit is the same along the three directions. Now, if you are inside, they can have different units in different directions. This means that if you are outside a cube, and you go inside, the shape, not only the dimensions but the shape even, can be different.

(RS) At the third level, is it true that the value of the dimension is changed by the available energy, or the energy is used to change the value of the units?

A: This concept crosses the density barrier, not limited to level three.

Q: (RS) Goes up to level four. That's the means of propulsion of the UFO.

A: Reason for exponential awareness "explosion" is approach of wave. Now, concentrate on visualization, answers are located there... After a period of contemplation, Roger to "hit upon" breakthrough question to solve puzzle currently occupying "centerstage" of his psyche, with only one piece missing currently.

Q: (RS) I notice that if the question is not properly phrased...

(L) You don't get your answer! Be specific.

A: Careful not to confuse with too much data that is not connected in the same concept arena, as visitor is concerned primarily with one direction; in order to familiarize let data be absorbed on schedule comfortable to researcher! Like trying to learn mathematics in broken dosages!

Q: (RS) Two short questions and then I will stop...

A: Ask as many as you desire!

Q: (RS) In our level three, does the use of anti-matter change the sign of the unit? Does this imply the reversal of the sign of the unit of space and time?

A: Yes, but problem has always been for level three entities, that the "other" side is uncharted, therefore experimentation is not recommended, unless with assistance from level four through six STO.

Q: (RS) That is an incredible answer because this is traveling in time. First they said that by using energy you can change the numerical value of the units, and from this (incomprehensible) you can make a (incomprehensible) show. Now the question: how you can go backward in time; by changing the sign of the unit: plus one second and we move forward, if that unit is changed to minus one second, we move backward. So the question, whether by using anti-matter we can move backward. But their answer was saying... precisely, that we are moving from level three to level four.

In Greece, at this time, at the University of Santia (?), the nuclear physics laboratory at the University, there is a potentially fundamental experiment going on based on my studies to search for fundamentally new source of energy by bombarding zinc 70 or molybdenum 100 via Gamma with 1.294 MeV energy. Will the experiment be successful...

A: All of the experiments you speak of share one thing in common: They all "touch the borderline" from the perspective of the third density side.

Q: (RS) Will you help us? (Carla) Yes, let's be practical! [Laughter]

A: It is possible to cross over into fourth density from third, using third density technology. In fact, this has already been accomplished by various individuals and groups on a more or less accidental basis, the problem is "what does one do when one reaches fourth density reality with only third density training and experience?"

Q: (L) Could you, if we spent the time, help us with this training and technology?

A: Yes, but what do you intend to use it for? This is not like going to DisneyWorld for a day, you know! What is your knowledge quotient regarding following: electromagnetism, Einstein's "unified field theory." And did he ever complete said theory, or was it completed under the supervision of consortium, and suppressed. And if so, what are the ramifications!!! Also, Roger, are you capable of "filling in the blanks," we think so!

Q: (RS) From the third level there cannot be a unification of electromagnetism and gravitation because they are identical. There is an identity between electromagnetism and gravitation. So, there is no need of the unification because they are identical. Is this view correct?

A: Yes. What about fourth level?

Q: (RS) To my understanding to the third level, this is where the possibility to go up a level comes in. If gravitation and electromagnetism are identical, then anti-gravity exists. The origin of anti-gravity is not unification. Einstein was wrong, but the identification that they are the same implies the existence of anti-gravity.

A: Wrong when searching on level three density exclusively, but this is where the Consortium comes in, i.e. "Can of Worms."

Q: (T) It is considered known to the general public that Einstein did not complete his Unified Field Theory, but that may be a falsehood. Part of the disinformation campaign.

(RS) From what we know, Einstein failed to achieve the Unified Field Theory because the assumptions were not realizable.

(RS) Can I ask a question? The origin of the mass of an elementary particle is primarily electromagnetic, therefore, the gravitational field of elementary particle must be primarily of electromagnetic nature. That's why the view at level three is, outside mass, the gravitation and electromagnetism are identical. This is our belief at this time, supported by experimental evidence. Why is this wrong? I need an explanation.

A: Not wrong at level three, wrong to limit to 3rd level.

Q: (RS) Is it true that the universe has equal amounts of matter and anti-matter as seen from level three?

A: Yes, all others as well.

Q: (RS) Then it is true that the total time in the universe is null?

A: Yes.

Q: (RS) This is incredible!

A: But, Roger less pressure! [Roger lightens up] ...thank you. Now, remember, most important concept is balance. How is balance achieved?

Q:(RS) Matter and anti-matter. So, if matter is flowing in this direction of time, anti-matter is flowing the other way. They balance each other.

(J) This is my question of the total time of the universe which is zero. If we flow this way, maybe others in another galaxy are flowing another way. The sum is zero.

A: Not galaxy, dimension.

Q: (RS) Yes. Another level. I always think at level three!

A: Not any more! [Laughter]

Q: (RS) How can we represent mathematically the identification of gravity and electromagnetism, including the fourth level that you suggest? How can this be done? How can the inclusion of the fourth level be realized?

A: We asked you to visualize for answers. It is always there for you to discover.

Q: (RS) It is not going to be easy, but I am going to give it a try.

A: What ever is?

Q: (RS) The question is how to represent mathematically the transition to the fourth level. I think that this can be done by the isogeometries, the geometry which we discussed earlier, which is generalization of the unit of space and time...

A: Geometry is one key, but there is another.

Q: (L) What is the other key?

(L) Could you give us a clue. Just a little clue?

(RS) Give us the formula!

A: Have already... access...

Q: (RS) We should have a session... because this is confirmation of the only mathematical model we have of the UFOs... the only one that exists as far as I know. We have a computer model... we cannot build a UFO, we don't have the technology, but we can put the formula into the computer and get a model.

A: Merge geometry with optics.

Q: (RS) What?! It is the science of light.

A: Matrix.

Q: (RS) That is precisely what I have done. I've done a representation of light represented by a unit which is a matrix. I have already done this! Years ago!

A: But you left out one important factor, remember, hypothesis does not theory make!

Q: (RS) I made a conceptual hypothesis in my mind. That's not a theory. It has to be formulated in a quantitative way, that's the mathematics, the formula, and then this has to be proven experimentally that it works. Hypothesis, formula, and experimental verification is the process for a theory.

A: Now, what factor was missing, Roger?

Q: (RS) I don't know. But how... I do not know how to express it mathematically...

A: Light waves... gravity... electromagnetism...

Q: (RS) I have to think it over. In isogeometry...

A: What role do waves play in third level understanding of physics?

Q: (RS) Transverse oscillation of the ether... the medium that fills up the entire universe. No wave can exist unless there is a medium to propagate it. Transverse oscillations fill up the entire universe.

A: Light, gravity, optics, atomic particles, matter, anti-matter... unify, please.

Q: (RS) That lists everything...

(J) What do they all have in common?

(RS) Oh! All of them are vibrations of the medium that fills up the universe! We perceive things, everything, even spaces between things. Reality is the opposite of this. Because light is a wave, like sound. If you remove the air, sound cannot propagate. Light is the same thing. Light is a wave and cannot propagate unless there is a medium that fills up the entire universe. So what we perceive as being solid and empty is not true perception. The whole universe is filled with the vibration of this medium. So, without the medium, there would be darkness. So, light is an oscillation of this medium. A particle is also an oscillation only the wave propagates and the oscillation stays there. So when I move my hand from here to here, I have just moved the oscillation. The space is oscillating. We are completely empty, but space is filled up. So, the answer is that what they have in common is that they are all oscillations of this medium that fills up the entire universe as perceived from third level and I think from fourth.

A: Now, what relation between gravity and light?

Q: (RS) I do not know. At this moment in my studies, I do not know. Light can be converted into matter, therefore there is gravitation.

(L) But, what could the relation between gravity and light be?

A: Access knowledge base and network.

Q: (RS) The only connection between light and gravitation... the photon and the photon produces a pair of electron and positron, particles and anti-particles, and those particles have gravitation. So, in this way electromagnetic waves... a photon can create matter...

(L) And matter has gravity...

(RS) And matter has gravity, so... it can be converted...

(L) But where does it come from?

(RS) That is a good question because it isn't known. It could come from a vacuum...

(L) But how does it happen?

(RS) In experiments in the laboratory, you shoot a photon at a nucleus and the nucleus spits one electron and one positron, and so you have conversion of photon into particles. Those particles have gravitation. I do not know if a photon has gravitation. I don't think so, it travels at the speed of light. There is no time. Time is suspended.

(L) Okay, is it true that at the speed of light, there is no gravity?

(RS) There is no gravity.

(L) Okay, then maybe the speed of light is the antithesis of gravity just as anti-matter is the opposite of matter?

(RS) That is a good point. A very good point!

A: Close.

Q: (J) Is it about balance?

A: All is.

Q: (L) If at the speed of light there is no gravity...

(RS) There is no time...

(L) Then gravity must be...

(RS) The clue... But is the missing clue... are we discussing the missing point to go from the third to the fourth density?

A: Yes.

Q: (RS) Then the point is valid. So, then if you go at the speed of light then you are in fourth density.

A: Now, what is missing factor which allows third density and fourth density matter to achieve light speed without disintegration? Think...

Q: (RS) That is the fundamental question of nuclear physics... matter cannot reach the speed of light intact...

(J) Anti-gravity?

(RS) Even by using anti- gravity. At this moment, matter cannot do this...

(L) Okay, if you have some matter and this matter is speeding up, and it is approaching the speed of light and it is losing its integrity the faster it goes, what if, at some point you start incrementally adding anti-matter which...

(RS) Use the inverse process... take an electron and positron and put one inside the other and recreate the photon. But matter cannot reach the speed of light... if it does, time stops... there is no dimension...

(L) Maybe it is consciousness?

A: What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?

Q: (RS) Ah!

(L) If we knew these things we wouldn't be here! [Laughter]

(RS) It is supposed to be a field.

(J) Is it EM?

(RS) No, a bioenergetic field.

(L) What if consciousness creates gravity?

(RS) Gravity is created by matter.

(L) But isn't matter created by consciousness?

(RS) Yes, the mind can create matter...

A: There are no "gravitons."

Q: (RS) Not to my knowledge. They do not exist. They are in Einstein's theory, but I will never believe it... Does our consciousness create gravity?

A: Getting "warmer." Not "our."

Q: (L) Somebody else's consciousness creates gravity?

(RS) Fourth level.

A: Level Seven.

Q: (RS) Oh yes! That I can understand! The ultimate level. Is it true that the universe, as perceived from level three, which is expected to be made up of equal amounts of matter and anti-matter, is, in actuality, open? That is, is matter continuously created somewhere in the universe? Matter and anti-matter?

A: Better word would be: Recycled.

Q: (RS) Is it true that the same recycling occurs in the center of the earth. There is a theory that the earth is expanding. I heard this at a congress, that the earth is expanding in diameter precisely because the center of the earth is in process of the creation of matter. Is this correct?

A: Off base, but all concepts are valid within unified dimensionality.

Q: (RS) My biggest problem has never been new knowledge, but politics, particularly the politics on Einstein. Is the can of worms mentioned before, can you give me anything on this? As soon as you go beyond Einstein, there are all sorts of problems, political problems in our contemporary society. Any suggestions?

A: Political problems have root in effort to suppress knowledge already gained in limited quarters for purposes of control of civilization.

Q: (RS) That is the best answer I ever heard. Very, very good.

(T) While I was walking around outside smoking my cigar, I was getting the image that one of the reasons that Roger is here tonight is to experience this, but also to see and read what we give you. We are not making this up. It is coming from somewhere. There is substance to this information. Roger is going to Europe. You have colleagues in Europe who are working on these very same things. The Cassiopaeans have indicated that you are on the edge of opening this barrier. That this can be done, it has been done with disastrous results the few times that we know of and possibly other times that we do not know of. What I am getting at is, part of the reason you are here and seeing this may be because you need to take this information with you because when they breach these barriers, they need to understand what they have done. Because, if they don't there is a possibility that what is transpiring naturally will be accelerated. Does artificial breaching of the barrier between the densities accelerate...

A: Yes.

Q: (T) That may be why when we ask how long this process is going to take, this oncoming density change, they answer "one month to 18 years." And we were thinking that maybe they can't tell how long it is going to take for this transition point, this realm border to come through our section of space/time and do whatever it does. Maybe what they are referring to is not that, but what people might do in terms of breaching the barrier unknowingly. They are stretching what they know, and pushing onward, but they don't understand what this is all about.

A: Yes.

[Good night to Carla and Roger]

Discussion:

(L) Of the three pairs we were given, they each seem to be opposite to each other: Light and gravity, optics and atomic particles, matter and anti-matter...

(J) It's all about balance. What is the relation between gravity and light? What is the missing factor which allows third density and fourth density matter to achieve light speed without disintegration? What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?

(L) What is the missing link? Well, I think the relationship is right there. What is it that slows down light causing photons to manifest, collapsing the wave, so to speak, and creating matter?

(J) It may be that this same factor that allows third density to achieve light speed without disintegration. What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?

(L) Well, the relationship is there. We were told we were getting close when we said "consciousness" but that it was not our consciousness, but that of level seven.

(J) They said that "creation" was a recycling.

Q: (L) Are you still there?

A: As always, Laura, do you think we go out to lunch or something?

Q: [Laughter]

A: You keep asking if we are here?!?

Q: (T) Did you enjoy talking to Roger and would you like to talk to him again?

A: Yes. Will.

Q: (L) Am I getting warm when I say... we have light and gravity, optics and atomic particles, matter and anti- matter, all are ways of talking about a transition... are these three pairs of relationships?

A: Close.

Q: (L) What is the thing that collapses the wave? Is it consciousness?

A: Yes...

Q: (L) There is more. Can this consciousness be expressed...

(T) We are trying to get from a third density concept to a fourth density concept where there is no physicality, per se. At fourth density they don't have a problem with going at the speed of light and disintegrating, because it doesn't exist there...

A: Close.

Q: (T) So, for us to try and think of this in third density...

A: Variable physicality is the key.

Q: (L) What makes the physicality variable?

A: Awareness of link between consciousness and matter.

Q: (L) What is the link between consciousness and matter?

A: Illusion.

Q: (L) What is the nature of the illusion?

(T) That there isn't any connection between consciousness and matter. It is only an illusion that there is. It is part of the third density...

A: No. Illusion is that there is not.

Q: (L) The illusion is that there is no link between consciousness and matter.

A: Yes.

Q: (T) The illusion is that there is not a link. In third density...

(L) I got it!

(T) Don't disappear on me now! [Laughter] The relationship is that consciousness is matter.

A: Close. What about vice versa?

Q: (L) Just reverse everything. Light is gravity. Optics are atomic particles, matter is anti-matter... just reverse everything to understand the next level... it can't be that easy.

(J) Wait a second: gravity equals light, atomic particles equals optics, anti-matter equals matter? It is all about balance.

(L) And the answer must always be zero.

A: And zero is infinity.

Q: (L) So, you are saying that it is not that there is a link, the illusion is that there is separation. There is no difference, they are the same?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) If you warp space/time you travel by bringing your destination to you.

(L) Or, you can reverse that and understand that there is no distance between us and, say, Alpha Centauri, it is the alteration of perception that turns the axis and creates the illusion of distance.

A: Now, all you need is the "technology."

Q: (T) The technology is being developed right now.

(J) The technology has probably already been developed, it is just suppressed.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I have a very strange sense that this interaction has ramifications?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) A hint?

A: We could but won't at this "time."

Q: (T) Are these major ramifications?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Is there anything further for this evening?

A: No.

Q: (L) Then we will say thank you and good-night.

A: Good night.

 

One of the most significant things about this session was the revelation to me that it just MIGHT be possible to solve some of the great mysteries of our world with the help of the Cassiopaeans. Yes, it is so that many, many sources of similar ilk have made claims to having done so - at least in philosophical terms - but here we had a real, live physicist who just possibly could figure out and ask the right questions, and then take the answers and translate them into usable, technological terms for the betterment of all humanity, not just "true believers." I was enthralled by the fact that they had no problems talking with Prof. Santilli about physics though my stomach had knotted up at the beginning of the session from thinking that this was going to prove to me that the Cassiopaeans were just a chimera of my own subconscious - they would fail the test. But they didn't. Of course, they weren't giving anything away except clues, but the fact that they could do that was astonishing to me. It opened an endless vista of possibilities.

In addition to such considerations, the effect on me was also pronounced. It seemed that even when the session was over and I had gone to bed, I was still "channelling." My head was filled with ideas and images too deep for words and I was impatient to get on with the "project."

We waited for Prof. Santilli to return from Europe to see what the "ramifications" of the session would be. When he returned, he seemed to have a different "attitude" toward the Cassiopaeans, and it became clear that he did not wish to be associated with such a "bizarre" experiment. It was rather like the initial reaction of the MUFON group which then changed so drastically that we were reduced from an hour of time to 15 minutes. Something strange was going on. So much for our anticipation of help from such quarters. I put my hopes of delving into physics more deeply on the shelf, and over a year passed before we were to come back to the subject again.

But still, in terms of the "Wave" effect, it seemed that something about our position had changed, even if only in subtle ways. New doors had been opened in our minds and the Winds of Eternity were blowing our little ship toward some destination unknown.

The Wave Part 5

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